Truebie/Newbie Retention

EseiEsei somewhere, most likelyMember Posts: 181 Virtuoso
edited March 23 in Common Grounds
[Admins, if this is in the wrong place, feel free to move it!]

This is JUST a collection of more pertinent points from the feedback channel in the Official Discord, not a prescriptivist way to go about things or something. (Italics are my own notes.)

- Revamping how cloaking gems work: showing everyone on Prime who has a gem as if they had stealth veil or otherwise as if thirdeye was off; this makes the game feel much less empty to novices who don't know that gems exist - some novices don't realize people actually play Lusternia.
- MWHO (mentorwho): showing everyone who qualifies as a mentor on a list.
- Changing how WHOs (CGWHO, CWHO, RPWHO, etc) are given to novices, since many don't know this exist.
- Changing how CGHELP, CHELP, GHELP, etc, are shared with novices; many do not read text walls like which you see when entering the collegium for the first time, including how to talk on CGT and reading CGHELPs. This may be mitigated with simple player interaction with novices.
- Overall attempting to introduce concepts in a way that isn't just dumping it on their head - some may react better to OOC explanations, others may benefit from one-on-one mentor-protege relationships.

Sorry if I missed any!
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Comments

  • SulwhSulwh Member Posts: 43 Apprentice
    edited March 23
    Level 50 seems like a really low level to start getting hit with lesson loss. It would be nice for anyone not eligible for mentorship (300 hours and level 50) to get free classflexing into a common lesson pool (so as to not have to deal with the whole lesson pools mess).
    300 hours sounds like a lot but it is only 12 and a half days, and I want to say 90%+ of the active playerbase has more playtime than that.
  • BrawrurBrawrur Member Posts: 25 Inept
    Honestly introducing more lessons overall into the game wouldn't be such a bad thing.

    Overflow lessons for oldbies would become curious, which would invigorate that market/subsystem. People would be able to skillflex more, there'd be more credits free for artifacts... Etc. It's not a profit making decision but it is a player friendly decision and more importantly to the discussion, a newbie friendly decision.

    I cannot fathom what things were like before daily credits. If you ever quit a class you'd go bankrupt, IRL too.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,404 Transcendent
    One thing that's come up recently in  is the impotance of certain clans and getting people into them. Maybe a basic set of ooc resources that are built into orgs could help.

    For example: 
    COT/COHELP - Or some other variation, which is just a clearly marked OOC thing. Like the aether could be like...
    [OOC](Serenwilde): X says "Blah"

    This way newbies would start out with access and it's easier to access than clan juggling. 

    Having like... AT and AHELP for alliances would help too though potentially less overtly for newbies, it doesn't seem like the worst idea cause it would be one more channel newbies could go to if, for any reason, they're not having luck in their particular org. (Though now I'm already wondering if "ATT" for "alliance tactical talk" would be useful to separate alliance talk from combat talk)


    Obviously, given they already exist, these things are already happening through clans, but making them an actual formal thing seems more newbie friendly rather than making it work through the clan system.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,404 Transcendent
    One idea I've been mulling over is whether collegiums should be expanded a bit?

    We've gone from guilds taking care of the whole novice experience, to collegiums handling a bit and guilds handling the rest, to now where it's kinda the same but without the clear "novice" stage in guilds and guilds being more optional.

    I'm not sure if expanding the quests itself is the route. But there's bits like setting a description, getting your equipment, learning basic skills and making sure you know how to use them, maybe how to path, etc. Some like description and equipment are in the fate tasks, but I have a guild task for them because not everyone has covered them when looking at guild advancement.

    Maybe it would be good to have an extra collegium "quest" which just requires a collegium teacher to like... COLLEGIUM APPROVE <newbie>?
    It could support a shift to newbies learning these kinda universal elements of the game through the collegium which every novice is going to go through, rather than in guilds where a lot might join but not necessarily all of them.
  • EseiEsei somewhere, most likelyMember Posts: 181 Virtuoso
    Saran said:
    One idea I've been mulling over is whether collegiums should be expanded a bit?

    We've gone from guilds taking care of the whole novice experience, to collegiums handling a bit and guilds handling the rest, to now where it's kinda the same but without the clear "novice" stage in guilds and guilds being more optional.

    I'm not sure if expanding the quests itself is the route. But there's bits like setting a description, getting your equipment, learning basic skills and making sure you know how to use them, maybe how to path, etc. Some like description and equipment are in the fate tasks, but I have a guild task for them because not everyone has covered them when looking at guild advancement.

    Maybe it would be good to have an extra collegium "quest" which just requires a collegium teacher to like... COLLEGIUM APPROVE <newbie>?
    It could support a shift to newbies learning these kinda universal elements of the game through the collegium which every novice is going to go through, rather than in guilds where a lot might join but not necessarily all of them.
    Or, potentially, a collegium quest based around the guilds? Getting a little synopsis on each, learning what they do, while also not interrupting the flow of the rest of the collegium quests all too much?
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,404 Transcendent
    Esei said:
    Saran said:
    One idea I've been mulling over is whether collegiums should be expanded a bit?

    We've gone from guilds taking care of the whole novice experience, to collegiums handling a bit and guilds handling the rest, to now where it's kinda the same but without the clear "novice" stage in guilds and guilds being more optional.

    I'm not sure if expanding the quests itself is the route. But there's bits like setting a description, getting your equipment, learning basic skills and making sure you know how to use them, maybe how to path, etc. Some like description and equipment are in the fate tasks, but I have a guild task for them because not everyone has covered them when looking at guild advancement.

    Maybe it would be good to have an extra collegium "quest" which just requires a collegium teacher to like... COLLEGIUM APPROVE <newbie>?
    It could support a shift to newbies learning these kinda universal elements of the game through the collegium which every novice is going to go through, rather than in guilds where a lot might join but not necessarily all of them.
    Or, potentially, a collegium quest based around the guilds? Getting a little synopsis on each, learning what they do, while also not interrupting the flow of the rest of the collegium quests all too much?
    Yeah, that would be pretty cool too, though I don't think it's an "or".

    Achaea does something like that and it's pretty neat but there is also other stuff that everyone who plays Lusternia, or everyone in one org/of one class, is going to need to learn or would at least significantly benefit from learning, but it shifts and changes so codifying it with a quest may not work? 

    For serenwilde, it could be a point where we make sure all the newbies get moonchilde, for example.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,974 Transcendent
    Saran said:
    One thing that's come up recently in  is the impotance of certain clans and getting people into them. Maybe a basic set of ooc resources that are built into orgs could help.

    For example: 
    COT/COHELP - Or some other variation, which is just a clearly marked OOC thing. Like the aether could be like...
    [OOC](Serenwilde): X says "Blah"


    Eww, no. I don't need the toxicity of OOC clans and Discord servers turned into official in-game channels (I consider the OOC clans unofficial OOC channels). It's hard enough to get people to actually communicate and RP using the IG channels we have instead of using external OOC communication.

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  • UilaniUilani Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 18 Creator
    While we are not doing anything with the newbie experience soon, it's on our todo. This is an interesting collection of points, thank you!
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,404 Transcendent
    Everiine said:
    Saran said:
    One thing that's come up recently in  is the impotance of certain clans and getting people into them. Maybe a basic set of ooc resources that are built into orgs could help.

    For example: 
    COT/COHELP - Or some other variation, which is just a clearly marked OOC thing. Like the aether could be like...
    [OOC](Serenwilde): X says "Blah"


    Eww, no. I don't need the toxicity of OOC clans and Discord servers turned into official in-game channels (I consider the OOC clans unofficial OOC channels). It's hard enough to get people to actually communicate and RP using the IG channels we have instead of using external OOC communication.

    Sure, but unless there's going to be a push in the other direction and nix ooc stuff in-game it seems better to aim to make them work in the healthiest way they can and for those who don't want to participate they can just... turn them off just like they can not join the clans right now.
    There doesn't seem like there'd be much functional difference with serenade, for example, except that people can be unintentionally not included in it.
  • UzrielUzriel Member Posts: 199 Virtuoso
    On the topic of newbie retention, one thing which I've often wondered about is "secret guilds."  I'm not sure if any other guild besides Society even has this enabled.  For those who don't know what it does, it hides any members who are online (except possibly leadership positions?) and who is talking on gt (again I think leadership positions might be an exception). It's a cool RP concept, but I do wonder about what effect that has on newbies joining the guild.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,017 Transcendent
    It is a very cool concept!  But it's not one that I would ever enable or encourage enabling; it seems a very niche style of play that I don't think would fit in well with how we set up our guilds.  If the other two guilds are capable of being a good option for anyone not interested in that style, though, then why not?  As long as it is made very clear in the collegium documentation (and help files) ahead of time that's what the newbie is getting themselves into, and they feel like the other options are viable if they don't like that style, should be doable.
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  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,154 Mythical
    The reason the game seems more empty is not so much due to gems, but, clans.

    Having some actual mechanic for alliances and a dedicated channel for same would do far more to show activity than a list of people who are mostly silent. Not everyone who plays is seeking attention or wants it. Some people play the game to relax and unwind from the horrors of their day.

    If you just want visibility expand the visibility of people in lists.

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