Eh, this is a very interesting discussion. As a combatant who has not fought as a bard myself, I'm finding the arguments educational. I don't see any reason why envoy reports should not be discussed on the forums. It's entirely the admin's prerogative not to take any of the posts for consideration, of course. No one is asking that the forums become envoy newboard 2.0.
There are also no posts that are out of line. All of the posts here, including those flagged by various people, are all pretty valid (excepting, if we're very strict maybe, Elanorwen's latest, and maybe bits and pieces here and there). I'd even say Ciaran's post flagged by Celina is a valid one, pointing out a possible logical fallacy in both sides of the argument, and inviting each to defend their argument (which Celina did, though I may have missed Draylor's reply).
The only thing out of line is, as Xenthos says, the random and useless flagging of posts by everyone. Flagging a post is to mark it as an unhealthy post that probably should be deleted because it adds nothing but distraction to the discussion. Not just because it rubs you the wrong way, or you disagree with it. If there's moderation to be done in this thread, it's moderation of these blatant and prolifigrate flaggers. Take away those privs, and we've got a healthy, educational, informational, interesting discussion.
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I only wanted to read, not post, in this thread. That said, now that I've posted anyway, I might as well add my two cents I guess (just in case the random passingby Iasmos or Draylor marks this post as off-topic). While I'm not a bard (as I mentioned above), and I've never been overwhelmed by glamours afflictions, I personally don't agree with this change either.
Note that I've never been overwhelmed mostly because the bards worth their salt that I have sparred in my day don't bother with it 1v1, they have better, more efficient routes to explore. Those that know how could probably have pressured my cure balances if they wanted to, but I didn't meet any who bothered. Glamours afflictions aren't anything to write home about without afterimage, but I don't feel it is dismal and entirely useless.
I would personally suggest (and I did) expanding the pool of affs AND adding the ability to choose the affs to give instead of outright buffing affliction rate. This doesn't add anything at all in terms of numbers to group combat, but can boost 1v1 based on what affs are added, and their synergy with the different bard groups. In return, we should all acknowledge afterimage is plain useless as a mechanic (no one bothers juggling with both earache and afterimage, and those who want to choose either usually go for the former, this is an argument I think everyone accepts in this thread as well) and just delete it outright, keeping all the skills it affects afflicting at the current rate. No more afterimage boost possibility, but making the affs controllable and buffing the choices available.
This is just my suggestion, though. If this report fails, it could certainly be explored.
Flare would be easier to deal with if you didn't already have to chase blanknote:
You have to blanknote every 6-8s, if you don't blank fast enough they'll break pfifth (and you may need to chase them, breaking octave) and cure aurics.
Flare takes about 3s balance. If blind, strips blind. If unblind, costs 2p and lasts ~20s. Cannot be reapplied until it's worn off.
Therefore it requires 2 balances to flare the first time (byebye blanknote) and 2 balances if they get blind back up after flare ends, meaning you need to flare within the faeleaf period (3s, I can barely catch it with stratagem as a dwarf) to be effective (assuming they don't just use niricol, at which point you have to give up on flare entirely). If you miss the faeleaf period, you have to flare again or that balance is entirely wasted ... but flaring again will cause you to miss the blanknote. And of course, flare/blanknote can line up awkwardly, screwing you over again.
While the flare bonuses are nice, they simply aren't worth risking earache.
While I do agree that afterimage is extremely unwieldy in 1v1 (and thus never, ever bothered with trying to keep it up it beyond testing), I'm not convinced that it's completely horrible, either. With RainbowPattern and (if you -really- need it) ColourMaelstrom, the affliction rate is still pretty decent without afterimage given that they're passives. Glamours really shines in group combat, especially if you're with another bard that can take care of the music+spec based output while another does the Glamour support. I'm wondering it it'll be TOO good with a change, though I do support all of the suggestions to some extent. If any of them work without making it over the top, I say go ahead.
Solution 3 doesn't look too shabby, in particular.
Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."
-
With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
As a warning bard may be my least favorite of all the archetypes I've tried but my bard is a glamourist so I do know something sort of.
My thinking on this is similar to Aky's, the benefits aren't worth the risk of losing your offense in the music realm. What if the duration of after image was reduced a little (or the power cost increased) but in trade blanknote would refresh the duration? While it wouldn't be a super exciting change because it's yet another thing that makes bards revolve around pfifth but it also makes it least likely to unbalance things too much because usually against a bard you're aiming to break their room control and make them waste power as it is.
It's certain viable 1vs1. You also -do- have the option to maintain both, should you so decide. It's trivial to add a couple of triggers and functions to track and reapply the afterimage and earache. I guess it really just boils down to who you are fighting and what method you wish to adopt. Sure, most of the time, you're better off going down the spec kill route for a DC, but I guess my point is really one of, yes, in my opinion, it needs revision, but to those saying it's wholly useless, I'll just bow in reverse and lightly smile.
Aside from soulless, bard kill methods are entirely music based. Skipping music to go on an all out glamours offensive would be a bad tactical choice if your goal is more than to just annoy.
When I was glamours I never used flare. Without it, some of the effects are pretty bleh though. Removing it would make maze insane.
As long as maze is kept in check I don't think nerfing blindness will be a problem.
It's certain viable 1vs1. You also -do- have the option to maintain both, should you so decide. It's trivial to add a couple of triggers and functions to track and reapply the afterimage and earache. I guess it really just boils down to who you are fighting and what method you wish to adopt. Sure, most of the time, you're better off going down the spec kill route for a DC, but I guess my point is really one of, yes, in my opinion, it needs revision, but to those saying it's wholly useless, I'll just bow in reverse and lightly smile.
No one said it was wholly useless, all I ever said was that I didn't feel afterimage was worth the cost.
I am glad that you now agree it can use tweaking though
No one said it was wholly useless, all I ever said was that I didn't feel afterimage was worth the cost.
I am glad that you now agree it can use tweaking though
I've been saying right from the start it needed work, heh.
@Llandros: Can't say I ever saw you fight, so I can't really comment, although as aforementioned, using it is entirely both optional and situational. I've personally found use for it a lot.
Eh, this is a very interesting discussion. As a combatant who has not fought as a bard myself, I'm finding the arguments educational. I don't see any reason why envoy reports should not be discussed on the forums. It's entirely the admin's prerogative not to take any of the posts for consideration, of course. No one is asking that the forums become envoy newboard 2.0.
There are also no posts that are out of line. All of the posts here, including those flagged by various people, are all pretty valid (excepting, if we're very strict maybe, Elanorwen's latest, and maybe bits and pieces here and there). I'd even say Ciaran's post flagged by Celina is a valid one, pointing out a possible logical fallacy in both sides of the argument, and inviting each to defend their argument (which Celina did, though I may have missed Draylor's reply).
The only thing out of line is, as Xenthos says, the random and useless flagging of posts by everyone. Flagging a post is to mark it as an unhealthy post that probably should be deleted because it adds nothing but distraction to the discussion. Not just because it rubs you the wrong way, or you disagree with it. If there's moderation to be done in this thread, it's moderation of these blatant and prolifigrate flaggers. Take away those privs, and we've got a healthy, educational, informational, interesting discussion.
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I only wanted to read, not post, in this thread. That said, now that I've posted anyway, I might as well add my two cents I guess (just in case the random passingby Iasmos or Draylor marks this post as off-topic).
Some of the posts bear a fairly unpleasant and hostile, rather personal tone, as opposed to an academic and informative discussion. Certainly, points can be made without degrading.
I don't inherently mind discussing matters at large, however my point regarding threads on indiidual envoy reports was two-fold: A) The best way to have your opinion heard and considered for a report is for your envoy to discuss it, which seemed to be the intention of the opening post and To imply a distaste for situations wherein forum threads are used to "bully" envoys of opposing/unrelated organizations into agreeing with you by "public name and shame"-style tactics, usually with a group of compatriots that use peer pressure an other social methods in public venues to attempt to diminish others and get them to drop or otherwise alter their goal. It's the same kind of behaviour one sees when groups start misusing the "abuse" flags or broad trolling tactics to force others to abandon a conversation or otherwise irritate them beyond the ability to participate.
Point A is just a matter of simple logistics. It's why we have a report system in lieu of a forum section wherein reports are individual threads and opened for debate before we review.
Part B is two-fold in and of itself, insofar that reasonable conversation and a desire to err away from a hostile and toxic environment is valid as always, and was used to remind people to step back for a moment and think before continuing certain tones, or worsening them (which was more the concern - they weren't bad yet, but they were on their way down the slipper slope). Secondly, Envoy considerations and debates often get heated, as known to anyone who's been an envoy. It's a smaller group of people who generally get along, however, and tend to strive towards a common goal (albeit a divisive opinion on how that goal is reached sometimes, both among the envoys and between them and the admin). It's easier for them to self-resolve conflicts in smaller groups, particularly minus the figurative peanut gallery.
As well, I doubt anyone wants to see the style of attempting to shame and deride envoys into quitting, and it certainly won't happen on the forums. I'm not saying it will, however certain aspects of the thread suggest it could easily degrade to that, so it invites a caution against it.
It seems the general tone has softened and the debate has become healthy, so I certainly see no problem on it continuing.
On the general topic of abuse flags, we don't see notifications unless the post has been buried (5 or more flag "weight" - admin have a weight of 5, normal members weight of 1). There's been some consideration to lowering it but I'm not sure where that's going - but I'll say this. If we get notifications for petty crap like flagging someone as a troll/off-topic for disagreeing with you or because they used the "disagree" button and didn't give a reason or what have you, well, some admin take that rather sorely. I will not be responsible for whatever happens to you, should Zvoltz or Raezon or any of my (infinitely less kind and charming, yet still quite fantastic in spite of that) fellows see it. They usually see them way before me, heh.
So debate on!
(As an addendum, if you actually feel an envoy is being improper, send Iosai a message or file an issue to ensure the administration is aware. Then it can be evaluated and resolved as those who work most with the envoys and that general "area" of greater adminhood feel is appropriate.)
Edit: Something's been pointed out to me by one of our more forum-savvy admin - troll/off-topic/spam flaggings never send us notices, 5 flags of that type bury the post, as a form of self-moderation for forum-goers. 5 abuse flags is when we get notices.
Again with the flagging, if you're going to make remarks such add you did, without explanation, expect to get called on them. Rather than defend your self, you flag my post.
Again with the flagging, if you're going to make remarks such add you did, without explanation, expect to get called on them. Rather than defend your self, you flag my post.
It's called blatent trolling and I marked it as such. Grow up.
@Eventru: I'm not sure if it's possible, but the admins should really consider removing flagging posts from the forum, at least in it's current form. Being able to see posters that have flagged your post is only likely to start flamewars, and honestly, the Lusternia forum sees little enough activity that 2-3 mods could easily read through every thread and police as appropriate. That said, the current forum moderation MO of locking threads and.or deleting posts is a poor one; it stifles discussion and allows for some of our more unreasonable posters to effectively grief a thread they disagree with out of existence. I suggest you take a page from most of the larger internet communities and probate or ban offensive posters; most forum users are interested in a good discussion, and it's pretty amazing how much people tend to calm down after you take away their posting privileges for a day or two.
I'm seconding Llandros' argument: As a Glamourist, I rarely had time to use Flare in combat, meaning most of the Glamour skills were mild annoyances. Outside of Maze, I don't see much problem with allowing Afterimages to bypass Blind.
Ahaha, poor Eventru, right after he said the thread was headed into a
more reasonable direction, too. Well, if one or two flaggings don't
alert and distract the admin needlessly, then yeah, there's no reason to
change anything. Those one or two that abuse the flagging options will
never get the post they are flagging buried, and they'll just be
flailing around and discrediting their own reputations. I guess we all
just need to grow slightly thicker skins and ignore those who randomly
flag for no reason.
@urfion I think locking certain threads or
deleting posts is
definitely an important tool the admin uses, and they have very valid
applications as well. There are certain discussions that warrant such
moderation action. Sometimes discussions may be a
little too quickly locked for our liking, but generally speaking I don't
see threads locked rashly without good reason here. More warnings/bans
might be warranted, though.
I like heated discussions on the
forums, it is an indicator of concern and interest, and of course, there
is nothing more boring than a debate where both sides employ the same
dull tone. The place where the line is drawn is important, though. The
admin, naturally, want it set as low as it can get.
Understandably, no one likes to have to deal with fires on their forums
every other thread as a moderator, but as players, we also naturally
feel the need to push the line back, to allow space for our more
vehement protests and arguments.
Lastly, I think the admin MO
about forum jihads have set the standard fairly high for a forum driven
bullying campaign - nothing substantative from a forum based thread is
going to result into action unless there's a very clear consensus
amongst most forum posters. Obviously, if it's a change that the admin
doesn't agree with, the kind of consensus and "bullying" that would have
to take place to make a forum campaign succeed becomes set nearly
impossibly high. I have zero doubt that a thread with posters
disagreeing with each other this vehemently will likely attract scorn
instead of decisive action.
Such threads instead serve to develop
arguments on both sides, leaving readers (and envoys) empowered with
more information about what posters feel, and of arguments that they
have overlooked. This experience and knowledge can be invaluable for
actual envoy processes in the game. Think of such threads as an opinion
poll. "Who agrees with this change, who doesn't? Why and why not?"
Participants are challenged to defend their thesis, and must do so
vigorously if their opponents are aggressive. Bad ideas and poorly
thought out arguments get dropped and eliminated. Follow-up posters can
defend a previously presented thesis with their own ideas that the
original poster could not imagine, leading to improvement and expansion
of perspective. Generally speaking, threads revolving around a single
envoy report don't usually pop up, even in the old forums, because
there's either no controversy surrounding the change, or their concerns
are already being voiced by their envoys. If an envoy report can
inspire controversy enough to spawn a sustainable argument, though,
surely it is a topic of discussion worth exploring, doubly so if such an
argument isn't already on-going in the envoy report in question.
Ah,
damn, I'm waaay off topic. I don't even have anything to say to dodge
off-topic flaggings. Well, I don't have a vested interest either way in
this specific report, and way too much enthusiasm about forum
moderation. Sorry.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
You may have fewer posts than xenthos, Lerq, but I suspect you are number one in word count.
Just curios, do you want afterimage to bypass blindness or strip and apply afterimage all in one. Because if you're bypassing blindness there is little point to afterimage since glamour skills work off if blindness it lack thereof not the afterimage affliction.
As a note, I rarely, if ever, pay attention to the forums. This thread was brought to my attention yesterday and I have to say I'm a little shocked at it. I suppose I should be honored that my second report actually made public news. Yay me!
I've played a Glamours bard for a long time and to be honest it's a bit underwhelming as a skillset. Does it have uses? Oh yes, it's a great support set and has some decent potential to annoy the stink out of people. Do I think it's a game breaker? Not really, no. Most of the passives are slow and will reafflict with the same problem over and over. In testing rainbow pattern without healing, I was hit 4 times in a row with the same affliction during more than one test. While the odds of that happening should be quite low, it happened.
It's also a really power-hungry skillset. Maze is 10 power and flare is 2 to apply afterimage. You don't NEED it right now to actually hit with Maze so it is possible to maze someone in two balances. As for the other skills, most of them strip blindness first and THEN afflict. So you have to use things like rainbowpattern twice in a row to actually hit with it if they're not blind. Or flare, flare again (2power), rainbowpattern (2 power), hypnoticpattern (2 power) then you can colourburst but in that time they can easily run away because you've just used 4 balances to get them with two passives and afterimage to "enhance" them. You could try to colourburst them, but that's 5 balances and still no guarantees to keep them in place because the affs aren't going to lock them. In all that time, in order to keep them standing still, you have to be aware of blanknote and perfectfifth (a 3 power skill necessary to keep your music passives hitting). That said, you're doing a lot of aff work pulled from a fairly small list of affs which are costing a good amount of power to get/keep going along with the power-sink that is pfifth.
I honestly don't think I'm saying that it's worthless in it's current form. I actually prefer glamours to tarot because it's something that I can add to combat situations that no other guilds have access to. In my opinion, and as of right now the opinion of the other envoys who've commented on the actual report, I don't see this as a game-breaking change. If any of them would like to talk with me about it, I'm willing as long as it doesn't turn venomous. I can be whiny and high strung at times but I'm not going to attack you personally if you have an opinion. Do note, that I've read this thread and will take it into consideration while reviewing my report.
For those of you adding your opinion/comments without venom, thanks. I appreciate the insight.
Comments
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Eh, this is a very interesting discussion. As a combatant who has not fought as a bard myself, I'm finding the arguments educational. I don't see any reason why envoy reports should not be discussed on the forums. It's entirely the admin's prerogative not to take any of the posts for consideration, of course. No one is asking that the forums become envoy newboard 2.0.
There are also no posts that are out of line. All of the posts here, including those flagged by various people, are all pretty valid (excepting, if we're very strict maybe, Elanorwen's latest, and maybe bits and pieces here and there). I'd even say Ciaran's post flagged by Celina is a valid one, pointing out a possible logical fallacy in both sides of the argument, and inviting each to defend their argument (which Celina did, though I may have missed Draylor's reply).
The only thing out of line is, as Xenthos says, the random and useless flagging of posts by everyone. Flagging a post is to mark it as an unhealthy post that probably should be deleted because it adds nothing but distraction to the discussion. Not just because it rubs you the wrong way, or you disagree with it. If there's moderation to be done in this thread, it's moderation of these blatant and prolifigrate flaggers. Take away those privs, and we've got a healthy, educational, informational, interesting discussion.
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I only wanted to read, not post, in this thread. That said, now that I've posted anyway, I might as well add my two cents I guess (just in case the random passingby Iasmos or Draylor marks this post as off-topic). While I'm not a bard (as I mentioned above), and I've never been overwhelmed by glamours afflictions, I personally don't agree with this change either.
Note that I've never been overwhelmed mostly because the bards worth their salt that I have sparred in my day don't bother with it 1v1, they have better, more efficient routes to explore. Those that know how could probably have pressured my cure balances if they wanted to, but I didn't meet any who bothered. Glamours afflictions aren't anything to write home about without afterimage, but I don't feel it is dismal and entirely useless.
I would personally suggest (and I did) expanding the pool of affs AND adding the ability to choose the affs to give instead of outright buffing affliction rate. This doesn't add anything at all in terms of numbers to group combat, but can boost 1v1 based on what affs are added, and their synergy with the different bard groups. In return, we should all acknowledge afterimage is plain useless as a mechanic (no one bothers juggling with both earache and afterimage, and those who want to choose either usually go for the former, this is an argument I think everyone accepts in this thread as well) and just delete it outright, keeping all the skills it affects afflicting at the current rate. No more afterimage boost possibility, but making the affs controllable and buffing the choices available.
This is just my suggestion, though. If this report fails, it could certainly be explored.
-
My thinking on this is similar to Aky's, the benefits aren't worth the risk of losing your offense in the music realm. What if the duration of after image was reduced a little (or the power cost increased) but in trade blanknote would refresh the duration? While it wouldn't be a super exciting change because it's yet another thing that makes bards revolve around pfifth but it also makes it least likely to unbalance things too much because usually against a bard you're aiming to break their room control and make them waste power as it is.
I am glad that you now agree it can use tweaking though
I don't inherently mind discussing matters at large, however my point regarding threads on indiidual envoy reports was two-fold: A) The best way to have your opinion heard and considered for a report is for your envoy to discuss it, which seemed to be the intention of the opening post and
Point A is just a matter of simple logistics. It's why we have a report system in lieu of a forum section wherein reports are individual threads and opened for debate before we review.
Part B is two-fold in and of itself, insofar that reasonable conversation and a desire to err away from a hostile and toxic environment is valid as always, and was used to remind people to step back for a moment and think before continuing certain tones, or worsening them (which was more the concern - they weren't bad yet, but they were on their way down the slipper slope). Secondly, Envoy considerations and debates often get heated, as known to anyone who's been an envoy. It's a smaller group of people who generally get along, however, and tend to strive towards a common goal (albeit a divisive opinion on how that goal is reached sometimes, both among the envoys and between them and the admin). It's easier for them to self-resolve conflicts in smaller groups, particularly minus the figurative peanut gallery.
As well, I doubt anyone wants to see the style of attempting to shame and deride envoys into quitting, and it certainly won't happen on the forums. I'm not saying it will, however certain aspects of the thread suggest it could easily degrade to that, so it invites a caution against it.
It seems the general tone has softened and the debate has become healthy, so I certainly see no problem on it continuing.
On the general topic of abuse flags, we don't see notifications unless the post has been buried (5 or more flag "weight" - admin have a weight of 5, normal members weight of 1). There's been some consideration to lowering it but I'm not sure where that's going - but I'll say this. If we get notifications for petty crap like flagging someone as a troll/off-topic for disagreeing with you or because they used the "disagree" button and didn't give a reason or what have you, well, some admin take that rather sorely. I will not be responsible for whatever happens to you, should Zvoltz or Raezon or any of my (infinitely less kind and charming, yet still quite fantastic in spite of that) fellows see it. They usually see them way before me, heh.
So debate on!
(As an addendum, if you actually feel an envoy is being improper, send Iosai a message or file an issue to ensure the administration is aware. Then it can be evaluated and resolved as those who work most with the envoys and that general "area" of greater adminhood feel is appropriate.)
Edit: Something's been pointed out to me by one of our more forum-savvy admin - troll/off-topic/spam flaggings never send us notices, 5 flags of that type bury the post, as a form of self-moderation for forum-goers. 5 abuse flags is when we get notices.
If you can't defend your point, does that mean you are trolling?
Then explain this, all I am taking from this is that you disagreed with that statement, so I am confused now.
I'm seconding Llandros' argument: As a Glamourist, I rarely had time to use Flare in combat, meaning most of the Glamour skills were mild annoyances. Outside of Maze, I don't see much problem with allowing Afterimages to bypass Blind.
@urfion I think locking certain threads or deleting posts is definitely an important tool the admin uses, and they have very valid applications as well. There are certain discussions that warrant such moderation action. Sometimes discussions may be a little too quickly locked for our liking, but generally speaking I don't see threads locked rashly without good reason here. More warnings/bans might be warranted, though.
I like heated discussions on the forums, it is an indicator of concern and interest, and of course, there is nothing more boring than a debate where both sides employ the same dull tone. The place where the line is drawn is important, though. The admin, naturally, want it set as low as it can get. Understandably, no one likes to have to deal with fires on their forums every other thread as a moderator, but as players, we also naturally feel the need to push the line back, to allow space for our more vehement protests and arguments.
Lastly, I think the admin MO about forum jihads have set the standard fairly high for a forum driven bullying campaign - nothing substantative from a forum based thread is going to result into action unless there's a very clear consensus amongst most forum posters. Obviously, if it's a change that the admin doesn't agree with, the kind of consensus and "bullying" that would have to take place to make a forum campaign succeed becomes set nearly impossibly high. I have zero doubt that a thread with posters disagreeing with each other this vehemently will likely attract scorn instead of decisive action.
Such threads instead serve to develop arguments on both sides, leaving readers (and envoys) empowered with more information about what posters feel, and of arguments that they have overlooked. This experience and knowledge can be invaluable for actual envoy processes in the game. Think of such threads as an opinion poll. "Who agrees with this change, who doesn't? Why and why not?" Participants are challenged to defend their thesis, and must do so vigorously if their opponents are aggressive. Bad ideas and poorly thought out arguments get dropped and eliminated. Follow-up posters can defend a previously presented thesis with their own ideas that the original poster could not imagine, leading to improvement and expansion of perspective. Generally speaking, threads revolving around a single envoy report don't usually pop up, even in the old forums, because there's either no controversy surrounding the change, or their concerns are already being voiced by their envoys. If an envoy report can inspire controversy enough to spawn a sustainable argument, though, surely it is a topic of discussion worth exploring, doubly so if such an argument isn't already on-going in the envoy report in question.
Ah, damn, I'm waaay off topic. I don't even have anything to say to dodge off-topic flaggings. Well, I don't have a vested interest either way in this specific report, and way too much enthusiasm about forum moderation. Sorry.
I've played a Glamours bard for a long time and to be honest it's a bit underwhelming as a skillset. Does it have uses? Oh yes, it's a great support set and has some decent potential to annoy the stink out of people. Do I think it's a game breaker? Not really, no. Most of the passives are slow and will reafflict with the same problem over and over. In testing rainbow pattern without healing, I was hit 4 times in a row with the same affliction during more than one test. While the odds of that happening should be quite low, it happened.
It's also a really power-hungry skillset. Maze is 10 power and flare is 2 to apply afterimage. You don't NEED it right now to actually hit with Maze so it is possible to maze someone in two balances. As for the other skills, most of them strip blindness first and THEN afflict. So you have to use things like rainbowpattern twice in a row to actually hit with it if they're not blind. Or flare, flare again (2power), rainbowpattern (2 power), hypnoticpattern (2 power) then you can colourburst but in that time they can easily run away because you've just used 4 balances to get them with two passives and afterimage to "enhance" them. You could try to colourburst them, but that's 5 balances and still no guarantees to keep them in place because the affs aren't going to lock them. In all that time, in order to keep them standing still, you have to be aware of blanknote and perfectfifth (a 3 power skill necessary to keep your music passives hitting). That said, you're doing a lot of aff work pulled from a fairly small list of affs which are costing a good amount of power to get/keep going along with the power-sink that is pfifth.
I honestly don't think I'm saying that it's worthless in it's current form. I actually prefer glamours to tarot because it's something that I can add to combat situations that no other guilds have access to. In my opinion, and as of right now the opinion of the other envoys who've commented on the actual report, I don't see this as a game-breaking change. If any of them would like to talk with me about it, I'm willing as long as it doesn't turn venomous. I can be whiny and high strung at times but I'm not going to attack you personally if you have an opinion. Do note, that I've read this thread and will take it into consideration while reviewing my report.
For those of you adding your opinion/comments without venom, thanks. I appreciate the insight.
EDIT: Added some more, corrected a few things.