Race/Class help?

Draukar

I really am not a fan of any melee type classes, and am attracted to magic or mystical type things but not really like the Magi in Achaea (crystals and junk).

There seem to be a few races that are better suited to higher INT and CHA, assuming more Bard type(?). I'm stuck at the Race selection screen as I'm not totally sure where to go. I have no idea what any of the classes really do, other than what is on http://www.lusternia.com/classes but that isn't too helpful.

I do like the idea of a more primal character, like a witch doctor type in a tribe or even a druid. Maybe a bard too, yet unsure. Are guardians like clerics, like Priest and Apostate in Achaea?

Can you help me here with some recommendations? Thanks in advance!

Kio

Okay. Let's chat.

Mages here are NOTHING like mages in Achaea, expect for passives.  Mages build a demesne by imbuing their spirit in a room.  Each room must be connected to the next, to a max of 10 (up to 30 with an artifact).  You then imbue powers into your demesne, which affect all your enemies either in the room you are in or the room next to you (as long as you are in your demesne).  Mages are generally a support-type class.  You're sole purpose as the melder is to maintain the meld and stay alive.  Only one mage can have a room melded.  This is why it's a big deal.

Druids operate the same, but have different tertiary selections.  This is another thing to note.  Here, a mage will have their core elementalism spec (Aqua/Geo/Aero/Pyro-mancy).  They will then have Phantasms (a spec of illusions).  From there, they choose one of four tertiaries: Dreamweaving, Runes, Telepathy, or Telekinesis (TP and TK are specs of psionics).

Specilizations of skills happen at Master.  If you want to become a Telekinetic, you will take Psionics, learn psionics to Master, then you can choose between Telekinesis or Telepathy.  You will still have access to Psionics when you pick.  (This is a poor explanation of the system, but hopefully it makes some sort of sense).

The same is true of every guild: It is possible to mix-and-match skills (within a certain spectrum) to suit your fighting style or RP.  It's pretty cool.

Bards raise passive effects through their song.  You keep your song refreshed and your passives go to work... if your target is deaf (you have tools to keep them there).  It's like a mobile mage... sort of.

If you're looking for something primal, Glomdoring may suit you (as might the Serenguard, but it is a Knight achetype).  Serenwilde tends to be a little more reserved, whereas Glomdoring tends to be more omnomnom (do correct me if anyone can give a better explanation).

The Blacktalon are pretty awesome.  They are the druids of Glomdoring, and revere Crow (who sounds like someone you might like).  The Shadowdancers are pretty neat, too.  Think occultist-like ents that follow you about and do things while you drain your targets mana to turn them into a frog... and then step on them.

Races... are fickle.  You want to find something you'll have fun RP-ing with, but if you like combat, there are a few that have substantial flaws.  You have one free reincarnation, so my suggestion is that you start out something fairly neutral, like human, or pick your org's spec-race.  If you choose Glomdoring, you would want to be a faeling.  Upon specializing a Bard, your stats will change to be more bard-like, mage will be more mage-like, and knight will be more knight-like.  Each org has one spec race, except Hallifax.  They have two.

Guardians are city-only.  Wiccans are commune only.  Wiccans are similar to occultists, with multiple ents each doing a different thing.  Guardians of Celest and Magnagora have one super-strong ent that you can invest power into.  Hallifax has gems which operate similarly to Wiccans, but are more defensive.  Gaudiguch has ents that do not move around (but you can summon them to you once you create them, I believe)

The spec races are such:

Serenwilde: Elven

Glomdoring: Faeling

Gaudiguch: Dracnari

Magnagora: Viscanti

Celest: merian

Hallifax: Lucidian and Trill.

Hope that helps at least a little!

edit: Mages and druids are also getting a second primary specialization which goes away from demesnes and basically turns them into a walking artillery.  There are two left to go: Gaudiguch and Magnagora

Enyalida

For the more 'witch doctor' feel, you'll probably want to go to one of the communes and pick up one of the nature classes (Wiccan or Druid). As far as RP goes, it always felt like the more primal-ritualistic of the two archetypes is druid, with Wiccans being more priest/priestess 'faith' based rituals. 

I know the Shadowdancers have some really cool  mystical Night stuff going on, and from what I remember of the Blacktalon (it's been a while), when they're being active, they sometimes do cool blood-ritual things. Moondancers also have a really solid ritualistic background (though it's exactly what you would expect from Moon-worshippers), and a serious-ritual-y Hartstone character would be a welcome ally for the folks (myself included) that want to make the Hartstone grittier. 

Guardians are... priests of the cosmic planes, which are our 'conceptual' planes. Each cosmic plane stands for some kind of idea, be it 'the Light', 'the Taint', Chaos, or Order. The first two are the oldest planes (and classes), and they focus around summoning a single appropriate entourage, an angel or a demon, and using them for passives. They're basically a changed up version of Apostate/Priest. The other two guardian classes don't summon... 'sentient' entities, for complicated RP reasons. One of the focuses on warping their own flesh and summoning multiple flesh creatures that attack (which makes them like wiccans, who also summon multiple small creatures), the other floats resonance crystals around their heads. 

For the sort of Paladin/Infernal gish class concept, you'd be looking at the warriors. They take weapon skills, but also can take their org's "cosmic/spiritual" secondary, be it Necromancy/Sacraments (for the classics: Celest/Magnagora), Aeonics/Transmology (for the new cities), or the Totems skillsets (for commune warriors).

Enyalida

The commune 'equivalent' to the Guardian (at least, in the RP) is the Wiccan. Like Guardians, they typically 'focus' in on using a combination of an entourage and a "spiritual" secondary. I have to put the 'Spiritual' in quotes, because while it's a pretty good descriptor for the Celestines, Nihilists, and Wiccans - who are well described as 'priests' of the Supernals (angelic beings of celestia), Demon Lords (demonic beings of nil), and of either Mother Moon or Mother Night - it's a bit weird to call Illuminati the 'priests' of chaos (they're more like crazy gnostic mystics, from what I know) or the Institute members 'priests' of order (they're scientists, so I guess it makes poetic sense). Wiccans have many weak ents that each have fairly minor attacks, but can be timed together on their opponent, to some degree of use. 

The other caster classes are Mage/Druids and Bards. 

Bards have two major combat concepts: deafness/blanknote and composition.

 As was mentioned, being magically deaf (via the herb 'earwort') provides a defense against bards. Basically, not being able to hear their music firsthand, through non-magical hearing, renders you immune to all their primary skill attacks and passives. To remedy this, they have a fast attack that clears your deafness and prevents you from putting it back up, giving them a window in which they can hit you before they have to do it again! Once you're hearing, bards have a host of abilities in their Music skillset that can do a lot of harm, or can pin you in the room (very VERY useful in groups). 

Having you hearing allows them to make use of their main mechanic, custom songs. Every skilled bard can compose a nine line song that lasts for a period based on their skill and stats, that 'follows them' around. As they learn more of their spec skillset, they get more and more effects they can 'imbue' into their song, with certain restrictions and rules. Once their song is playing, anyone in the room, who is both on their enemy list and normally hearing gets periodically hit by all the song effects currently going, and all people who are hearing on the allies get any applicable buffs. I bolded part of that last sentence because it's easy to overlook! Basically, if I'm on the 5th stanza of my song, only stanzas 1-5 take any effect, until my song runs out (and it lasts usually ~170 seconds or so before that happens). If I play the next stanza, the timer on my song refreshes! I can also keep up playing the same stanza to continually refresh my timer, so my song effectively never ends! 

Kio

With the comparison to Apostates, I think it's important to mention again the difference of combat strategies. Last time I played Achaea (which was, admittedly, years ago), most of the methods for killing revolved around damaging out your opponent with support of a lock, which was one particular set of afflictions.

That doesn't happen here. There's not one magic set of afflictions that's gonna do the trick... there are many. The best part of it, to me, is that they feel completely different. A balance lock feels feels different in execution than a sap lock. Then there's a green lock. A sleep lock. An aeon lock. Of course there are strategies that don't even involve locking someone out of curing. There's just so many possibilities. All of them feel, or perhaps make me feel, different when they're happening. It's nice, it's variable, it's changing.

Who am I kidding. I just love Lusternia. Come get lost with us.

Draukar

Thanks everyone, I appreciate it!

The community here seems much different than Achaea, in a good way!

Eventru

I think what's important is to decide:

Do you want to play in a 'good' organization, an 'evil' organization, a 'rationalistic' organization (wherein science, art and reason are valued above all, and order is hugely employed), or a hedonistic, enlightenment organization (knowledge, wisdom, enlightenment, contemplating reality, philosophy, etc etc - and yes, undertones of wild partying, riots, and drugs - not all in the creepy drugged out way, I note, but often in the deeply spiritual, mind-expanding sense).

Now that you have a general idea of what kind of organization you want, you have to decide:

Civilization or Commune.

Realize that 'civilization' tends towards a powerful city-state with the idea of a central government and theology, communes tend towards a sprawling forest inhabited by like-minded mutualists with a varied philosophy.

Now you need to come to some kind of condensing:

(I'll be particularly brief on the details of the cities here, as you seemed to express an interest more towards primal aspects)

If you want a 'good' civilization, you probably will drift towards Celest, being it's all about Light, Love, Mercy, Hope, Faith, Devotion, etc etc. It's archetypically Good. There are some aspects of Gaudiguch (freedom, love, wisdom+knowledge, enlightenment, philosophy) and Hallifax (beauty, art, aesthetics, theatre, science, rationalism) that both play into that though, and they also have aspects that go the other way.

Then there is an 'evil' civilization, like Magnagora. It's not all violent, chaotic evil - the idea of the 'I'm bad, I know I'm bad, torturing infants makes me get aroused and want to torture more infants then puppies and blow up a nursing home before I go to lunch', but it has huge undertones of pain=pleasure, deception, wrath, gluttony, domination. It's all cast in a 'we're the good guys' light, more often than not, and all to do with the taint, engine of change, and so much more I can't fit into a paragraph so I'm going to end it there but it's quite deep and interesting, if only to examine from an outside perspective. Some aspects of Gaudiguch and Hallifax play that way too, though - Gaudiguch has undertones of over-indulgence, addiction, frenzy, all of the negative aspects and concepts of 'freedom' to the point of near anarchy; Hallifax has pretty heavy undertones of collectivism, wherein an individual's importance in relation to any other individual is how they contribute to the societal 'big two' - Art and Science - wherein Artists and Scientists are held above everything else, and the professions are more valued than even bureaucrats (and Hallifax loves itself some legalese).

Quickly, as I've touched on them both in the above, Gaudiguch tends to have an decentralized spirituality; originally the city was ruled by their spiritual leader, but no more! Hallifax, as I said, Science and Art are the real theologies, so you could more or less say that "Civilization" is their belief system, with heavy undertones of order and law. I note, it's been said numerous times - Chaos and Order are not considered opposites, and Gaudiguch has Order within it (Templar), but Harmony and Chaos are, and they go appropriately to Hallifax and Gaudiguch.

If you want to avoid the cities and eschew to something less centric, you can shift to:

Note: The dichotomy between fae and animal spirits has to be recognized, as that's the difference between wicca and druids, usually - wicca commune with/worship/protect/guide/heal/and sometimes have to play the angry momma for fae. There's different types of spirits in a nebulous hierarchy that is capped by Maeve and ended with every individual forest fae, and they're all tied together (think collective embodiment of nature, but just forests - ish). Then there are druids, who commune with animal spirits (a kind of fae, but from animals, instead of the latent spiritual energy of trees/rocks/etc) and though they too are tied into the Maeve/Faethorn by this, they focus most directly on the physical.

Serenwilde, focus on Moon/Hart as spirits. Broad animism, ancestor worship. Moondancers focus on Moon (conceptualize neo-pagans into a focus on Moon and a Triple Goddess and you're fairly close, for a very broad idea) and Hartstone on Hart (some ancestor worship, think celtic druidry, broadly; heavy on themes of rebirth/hunter and prey/natural cycle of life/balance in nature). Spiritsingers are heavy on ancestral spirit communing (not direct worship in the traditional sense), and the Shofangi are marshal monks who employ a level of spiritualism I'm not really familiar with, but my understanding is roughly 'buddhist forest monks with punching knives' and I suspect if you equate the general positive aspects of Taurus/the Bull, you'll get to some core of the Shofangi (I think) ideas. Note they don't worship Bull, who is gone, but definitely are inspired/influenced by the absent spirit and animal. Serenwilde is definitely very 'nature'y, in a broad sense, and tries to embody it all, or as much as they can manage.

Glomdoring focuses on Crow/Night as spirits. Crow is your archetypical trickster, but highly malicious and cruel. Night is vain, beautiful, harsh, cold. There also seems to be a perception of the 'Wyrd' as an over-arching entity/idea that supersedes all else (very collectivist), but the whole concept is a bit foreign to me so I'll stay out of it. Actually, I'm just going to stay out of speaking about Glomdoring's guilds at all, heh. The forest itself is definitely the embodiment of an 'evil forest' (think the Wicked Witch from Snow White and the Huntsman, if you suffered through Bella's horrific acting in a manner other than pretending Anne Hathaway was in the leading role), lots of dead, rotting trees, creepy, animated plantlife, huge predatory beasts made out of ambulant, thorned vines, hungry, evil shadows, wicked, gigantic spiders, crazed harpies and the occasional wandering zombie/undead. Whereas Serenwilde is very 'nature'y, Glomdoring is very 'what they think Nature should be' - it has a long and difficult history that is just too difficult to summarise beyond of "Soulless God crapped on it, couple of goddesses mucked in it, it's all very wyrd." In my head I always draw the association of the Zerg, if it was a forest commune (take, assimilate, corrupt/defile/"rebirth" in image of the Zerg, Zerg is improved by the addition and new information, moves on to next thing to assimilate) looking to spread or 'infect' all of Nature with the Wyrd (or, in their minds, improve! Evolution! Something).

Phew.

That was brief, too.

(As an afterthought, there are some primal aspects to the Pyromancers, regarding the Seven Pyres and the concept of Virtue versus Vice, mastering fire versus being consumed by it, etc. But I don't think that's what you meant by primal! :ar! )

(Addendum #2, I meant to add - the communes don't really fit into 'good' and 'evil' in a traditional sense, but when viewed in relation to Nature and the objective 'benefit' of it, Glomdoring falls into the category of 'evil' and Serenwilde, by default, falls into 'good'. Serenwilde is not, in and of itself, a 'good' organization - there are some positive undertones and a lot of positive, beautiful sentiment, but they are far from 'good' in the idea of Light/Love/Hope/Defenders of the Innocent/Faithful/Righteous/Devout/Merciful, etc. Those are largely Celestian ideals and to some extent abstractions from Gaudiguchian ideals. Not to say they don't exist in other orgs, of course, but they aren't such primary aspects nor that traditional, ideal concept. Serenwilde is very best-interest-of-nature centric, everything else is just aspects/characteristics/traits of the spirits they associate with - and I emphasise, not all of those aspects are positive (dark side of the Moon!).)

Kio

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Wait.

...Charlize Theron wasn't the lead?!

SHE MADE ME FEEL THINGS SO HARD.

Eventru

Kio said:

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Wait.

...Charlize Theron wasn't the lead?!

SHE MADE ME FEEL THINGS SO HARD.

No, it was Anne Hathaway. Didn't you see the movie like I did? Her and Charlize did well opposite of each other, though.

And stop digressing!

Cyndarin

I think te closest thing to witch doctor type is blacktalon. SD maaaaaybe if you RP it right but we are more Vatican like than voodoo witch doctor. Ceremonial and vain with a pretty rigid social structure. Blacktalon are more mucking around in dead things and creepy.

Cyndarin

Hartstone maybe but I'm not familiar with their RP. They kind of have a reputation for snugglebooping and furries.

Rivius

For a perfect witch-doctor feel I'd go Shaman druid for sure.

By the way, Hartstone is anything but snuggly. Heh.

Eventru

Voodoo is actually a deeply spiritual concept, it's not about mucking around with "dead things". That kind of behaviour is often seriously frowned upon, and the idea of zombies is the darkest and foulest of black magic (and usually not actually dead men but poisoned ones whose cognitive thought is highly diminished). Voodoo is probably more relatable to witchcraft than druidry, if you're drawing those kinds of dichotomies - it and its sibling religions are all about a deep spiritual communion.

I suppose you could draw some similarities to Druids in Lusternia though, insofar that Hoodou holds the idea of communing with these spirits and having them physically possess you (stagform, crowform), but in a general sense practitioners of voodoo magick are sorcerers - both good and bad, some are themselves both good and bad (said to serve the gods with "two hands"), and I would, personally, relate that kind of a classification more towards wiccans.

They don't fit directly with wiccans though, but the broad communion with a multitude of spirits and focus on spirituality and effective magic seems more Wicca to me than Druid. There is also a pretty heavy emphasis in variations like Lousiana Hoodou on being White Magick, protective and healing, as opposed to offensive hexes and curses, ie Black Magick (largely due to the influence of Christianity). You do see some similarities in the application of fetishes and smudges in Ecology, though.

Really something to look more deeply at!

(Hoodou, Vodun and Voodou are actually pretty cool concepts - way more than you see dramatized on TV with dolls and zombies and whatnot. There's heavy nature undertones and associations with the "great tree spirit" in Haitain Voodoo, as well as Hoodou, iirc!)

Cyndarin

Interesting. Horribly off topic, but interesting.

Eventru

Celina said:

Interesting. Horribly off topic, but interesting.

It's relative to the topic insofar as to the type of character desired. I think it can be argued either way, though, re Druid/Wicca, especially when you start to draw closer to the "witch doctor" stereotype.There's aspects of it that could very easily be related to the nature of Druids, insofar as the proximity of communion with animals and the association with lesser spirit types, especially the idea of "unnamed spirits" in nature, a la the animal spirits the Hartstone have sought out in the past (wildcat, trout, wolverine) for aid, versus the "greater spirits" they may or may not associate with (Lion, Trout), or the ephemeral spirits like Moon and Night, which tend towards a more defined hierarchy, like you suggest.

Frankly, I think the argument can be made either way - the underlying question is what aspect of it appeals to you more. It's worth noting that Glomdoring tends to relate towards very few spirits (Crow, Night) and animal types (beetles, bats, wasps) because they tend to be very self-centric versus Serenwilde which seems to drift to a broader perspective (Nature at large). Both definitely have wiggle room in the general question of the "type" of character, but I think one would need to determine the "direction" they want to take with it and how they want to focus that underlying spirituality. I've found diagrams to be really helpful, i.g. here I would start with the type "witch doctor", then break it down into behavioral archetypes (crazy, sane - or esoteric vs rational) then go further. Are they that "crazy" dude (or dudette) out in the woods, but ultimately with a benevolent disposition (Bandrui) or the rational, live-in-harmony with nature, benevolent sort (a la some depictions of Merlin, Glinshari, Ellindel). Then there are the dark variations of both types, wherein you have a strictly logical, very dark personality with a hostile nature (Rowena) and a wild, frenetic, irrational sort (Brennan).

Then determine how that spirituality manifests and how that may define the above personalities (ig Bandrui is seemingly crazy because she sees ghosts and spirits everywhere, which others do not). This would be broken down further into detailed concepts of the spirituality: do they venerate accepted spirits, do they view lesser spirits within those big spirits perview as ones worth their effort, how do they venerate them - offerings of crafted goods, herbs, things they've made or nurtured and thus showing a gift, offerings of things the spirit would find appealing (I always think of Louisiana Voodou for this - it's common to have a cigar in an offering for Baron Samedi, because he enjoys them), or offerings of work that are not benevolent but costly - ig animal sacrifices.

I think once you've done that you can see where your character fits better between those kinds of guilds (and I think an argument can be made for all 5 commune guilds, save maybe the Nekotai, with that kind of a persona - though the martial guilds would tend more towards a less-direct type, I'd think).

Or, you know, look over the mechanics of the archetypes and decide which you enjoy most then develop your character's identity and "type" around that. Probably the better way really, since it's one you have to live with (until you change guilds)!

Ushaara

@Zvoltz I think you better come and reassign Eventru to the Third or Fifth Circles!

(but really, admin musings are always nifty reads, more blog posts, go!)

Eventru

Ushaara said:

@Zvoltz I think you better come and reassign Eventru to the Third or Fifth Circles!

(but really, admin musings are always nifty reads, more blog posts, go!)

You realize Eventru was one of the main Firsts associated with the Hamadhi of the Third Circle, right...? Ha!

Ushaara

Didn't think overseeing them meant you were a pondering meditator yourself!

Eventru

Ushaara said:

Didn't think overseeing them meant you were a pondering meditator yourself!

Would you put a car mechanic in charge of a squad of surgeons? Tcht!

Kio

Oh mister Eventru, the more I read your posts the more I enjoy you.

On topic: all this discussion has made me realize Kio shouldn't be an Ecologist, but a Dreamweaver.

Draukar

Was just going for an feel and not forcing something. I was just going for a direction and then willing to work within it. Looking forward to having time to really dive into it soon. 

Thanks for all the help, much more info than I was expecting.