Alternate nouns for weapon names

Cadfael

If I understand correctly, the chances of making bastard swords and katanas and greatswords mechanically the same is virtually nil. It would be too difficult to code. Why not, then, provide alternate nouns for statistically distinct weapons? For example, falcata could be an alternate noun for broadsword, sabre for scimitar, or estoc for katana. This would broaden the scope of possible weapon RP and allow for more variability in the sort of weapons you'd see wielded around the Basin, adding flavor to the game world. The aforementioned weapon names are only examples - they could work or not, and I'm sure there are many more possibilities for alternate nouns than I could personally even think of. If you can think of some good ones, why not suggest them here? If not, I'd still like to hear what the rest of the playerbase thinks of this idea.

Rivius

Keep in mind, Roark did say that we could figure out ways that precision, speed and damage weapons function differently to make them more appealing. It's not an easy project, however.

Your idea sounds great to help the RP side of things.

Karlach

I would gladly love to stop wielding a Katana, it just doesn't seem the kind of giant 2h sword an Orc would use.

Lerad

I still have personally no idea why weapons must remain differentiated by stats when for all intents and purposes, there is only one type of weapon that is viable. The only people who use anything other than speed weapons are those who are willing to play at less-than-optimal efficiency for the sake of their RP: ie - no top tier combatant. This is beating a horse's skeleton, but I think it'll bea healthier for the game in the long run to change this and just delete minimum stats on weapon types.

Failing that, adding more nouns to the different weapon types is a decent solution, much like how the racehats are an acceptable alternative to statpacks, but it remains an unreasonable and unneeded situation to have to settle for this when the better solution is being ignored.

Xenthos

The reason they have different minimums is because all weapons have a base "template".  If you adjust that base template, all existing weapons will have their stats moved up (or down).  So then you need something that goes out and fixes every weapon out there too...

It was deemed to be a project too large and risky for an envoy report (report 651).

---[Roark on 11/7 @ 01:19 writes]:
Sorry for the slow response. Been tied up with other issues. Making all weapon stats equal would be problematic. Has to do with how they work behind the scenes, something I don't like but we're stuck with. So... I think we need to make unappealing weapons more appealing. The weapons that lean towards damage, perhaps they could have a higher max damage stat? Perhaps special abilities could be added to some, like reduced chance of being parried? Etc.
Furies' Decision:
See Roark's comment. Need to find a way to make unpopular weapons more appealing.

Cadfael

@Xenthos, @Roark: What I don't understand is why the nouns couldn't just all be attached to the respective speed weapon templates and the other templates just rendered inactive for forging. I also don't think there's ever NOT going to be an optimal choice for weaponry. Change the way damage weapons work, maybe they become more effective, and then everyone switches to them.

If that's not possible, though, I still like my idea. Maybe primarily (entirely?) add the new nouns as alternates for speed weapons.

Elanorwen

Morkarion said:

I would gladly love to stop wielding a Katana, it just doesn't seem the kind of giant 2h sword an Orc would use.

Well, you need to play more WarCraft then....

Karlach

I've played years of that game.

Apart from the fact most Orcs used Axes not swords, the one in the TBC entrance movie used Ashkandi, that ain't no Katana.

Cadfael

All the Blademaster units in Warcraft 3 used katanas, with the exception of Grom Hellscream, who used an axe. And while you're right that a lot orcs in the Warcraft universe use axes, I'm pretty sure most Blademaster-type orcs are depicted with katanas. The impractically large swords of the WoW endgame aside >.>

Karlach

Come WoW they used the Polearm model that was used for Blackhand's Doomsaw.

Cadfael

Ah, that's right, actually. I remember now. Pretty sure it was katanas in WC3, though.

Eventru

It was katanas in WC3, save for Hellscream, yeah.

Rivius

I was wondering. Why not just change designs so weapons are divided into the same categories they are now, but all nouns are thrown into all categories.

Eg. You have rapier, scimitar, broadsword, longsword as possible nouns but when you choose to forge things, you're forging "precisionweapon" "speedweapon" "damageweapon".

It's not the neatest thing in the world, but it can make sense and keeps everyone happy.

I suppose if something like that happens though, you'll also need to add a weaponprobe line like:

"A silver longsword is forged to maximize damage."

Tarkenton

Rivius said:

I was wondering. Why not just change designs so weapons are divided into the same categories they are now, but all nouns are thrown into all categories.

Eg. You have rapier, scimitar, broadsword, longsword as possible nouns but when you choose to forge things, you're forging "precisionweapon" "speedweapon" "damageweapon".

It's not the neatest thing in the world, but it can make sense and keeps everyone happy.

I suppose if something like that happens though, you'll also need to add a weaponprobe line like:

"A silver longsword is forged to maximize damage."

Makes too much sense, unacceptable.  

Alban

It also makes the stats hidden from your opponent, so is actually a buff.

Rivius

Not really...As it is, these weapons aren't used in combat at all right now. If you see them, assume the same stats as you would from a speed weapon. Besides, you technically don't see the stats on any weapon beyond knowing it's a two-handed weapon or one-handed.

Xenthos

Not only that, but all weapons have the same maximum attribute scores... so you can't assume too much about what a weapon is designed for anyways. While it is unlikely someone went for a high-precision broadsword, it is possible.

Not much of a buff imo.

Llandros

That's not true, you can see the full name of the weapon when it hits you and what people are wielding shows up with a simple look. Knowing when someone is attacking you with bashing weapons is rather helpful.

It's unusual enough to stick out to people paying attention. Not a huge blow but it is something to consider.

Xenthos

Llandros said:

That's not true, you can see the full name of the weapon when it hits you and what people are wielding shows up with a simple look. Knowing when someone is attacking you with bashing weapons is rather helpful.

It's unusual enough to stick out to people paying attention. Not a huge blow but it is something to consider.

Uh... the best bashing weapon type is the same as the best PvP type. So, no, that won't help you unless someone specifically chooses a poorer weapon type for the task at hand (in which case you still don't know bashing vs. PvP).

All weapons have the same maximums, but speed weapons have the lowest minimum precision and damage. This means that speed weapons will always give you the most flexibility.

Karlach

Xenthos said:

That's not true, you can see the full name of the weapon when it hits you and what people are wielding shows up with a simple look. Knowing when someone is attacking you with bashing weapons is rather helpful.

It's unusual enough to stick out to people paying attention. Not a huge blow but it is something to consider.

Uh... the best bashing weapon type is the same as the best PvP type. So, no, that won't help you unless someone specifically chooses a poorer weapon type for the task at hand (in which case you still don't know bashing vs. PvP). All weapons have the same maximums, but speed weapons have the lowest minimum precision and damage. This means that speed weapons will always give you the most flexibility.

Personally I'd like to see this change, give them lowest precision or the lowest damage and shift the other onto a different weapon.

Elanorwen

Xenthos said:

That's not true, you can see the full name of the weapon when it hits you and what people are wielding shows up with a simple look. Knowing when someone is attacking you with bashing weapons is rather helpful.

It's unusual enough to stick out to people paying attention. Not a huge blow but it is something to consider.

Uh... the best bashing weapon type is the same as the best PvP type. So, no, that won't help you unless someone specifically chooses a poorer weapon type for the task at hand (in which case you still don't know bashing vs. PvP). All weapons have the same maximums, but speed weapons have the lowest minimum precision and damage. This means that speed weapons will always give you the most flexibility.

Never mind that at the low cost of 50 credits, you can customize a bardiche to look like a lance/spear/etc... so you could turn a rapier into a longsword or a katana into a claymore.... or heck, you could even go further and call your new customized katana "the slashy thing of doom" or whatever.

Eventru

You can't customize your katana into a broadsword, nor your rapier into a long sword.

Thul

"Sword" is an appropriate noun for a katana at least. So there's a bit of creative flexibility there. Not so much with bardiches... kinda wish those'd take "spear" as a noun. Doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason as to what patterns have extra nouns and which don't.

Elanorwen

Eventru said:

You can't customize your katana into a broadsword, nor your rapier into a long sword.

Pretty sure I saw someone customize a bardiche into a spear, so....

Karlach

Saw someone convert a Katana into a Glaive so...

Eventru

Thul said:

"Sword" is an appropriate noun for a katana at least. So there's a bit of creative flexibility there. Not so much with bardiches... kinda wish those'd take "spear" as a noun. Doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason as to what patterns have extra nouns and which don't.

There is. Spears don't really belong in Cavalry; that's all bladed pole arms, really, not spears/tridents/etc.

Turnus

Morkarion said:

Xenthos said:

That's not true, you can see the full name of the weapon when it hits you and what people are wielding shows up with a simple look. Knowing when someone is attacking you with bashing weapons is rather helpful.

It's unusual enough to stick out to people paying attention. Not a huge blow but it is something to consider.

Uh... the best bashing weapon type is the same as the best PvP type. So, no, that won't help you unless someone specifically chooses a poorer weapon type for the task at hand (in which case you still don't know bashing vs. PvP). All weapons have the same maximums, but speed weapons have the lowest minimum precision and damage. This means that speed weapons will always give you the most flexibility.

Personally I'd like to see this change, give them lowest precision or the lowest damage and shift the other onto a different weapon.

The problem with making another type of weapon besides speed weapons potentially the "best" is the masses of angry warriors that have artied up weapons.

Karlach

The change would probably best to remove lowest precision from the speed weapons.

Fewer warriors have artied up bashing weapons, those that do can probably afford pliers.

Nihta

I think if it was a major change, they could introduce those temporary arty dropping bandits who have gotten their hands on the motherlode of pliers for a limited time.

Enyalida

Or just allow people to move their runes about for a while, if they are warriors... (Or just fix the entire pliers problem and change how weapon runes work, forever).

Alban

Enyalida said:

Or just allow people to move their runes about for a while, if they are warriors... (Or just fix the entire pliers problem and change how weapon runes work, forever).

The fact that you can't move runes around to any item you want at any time you want (including jewelry runes, shield runes, etc) does feel like the biggest rip off in the world.

They're so insanely expensive to begin with.