Maybe I'm just a different type of person, but if I have an issue with how mechanics work, I'm not going to use that mechanic until it gets changed because that's the way it is and others can. I'm actually going to actively attempt to change the mechanic.
That goes back to respect.
But I will say this, I find it hilarious to be saying that we participate in domoths to seek fights when clearly that is not the case. This whole thread started because I can't just stand by and let this line of thinking continue when it has obviously not been true. I have been logged in for 5 days straight, and there are three absolves on my backlog all met with zero resistance, all happen when very few are around.
It's not hard to say, "We will do better, or I won't really help. But, in the mean time, can you play ball and help us change the way Trials is gamed?" or whatever argument or annoyance that you feel causes grief and strife.
No one is trying to police the way you play the game. We just want there to be some mutual respect and understanding to solve issues that force people out of the game.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Can we stop trying to blame the north for playing when we're actually able to play and start pointing the other four fingers at the people who are logged in and active for the south but never show up when we try to play? Heh.
Just as an aside to @Cyndarin there is only one person I have met in the game that I don't like. That person is not you. Just because I disagree with your justifications and deciding what goes on in the minds of myself and others does not mean I don't like you. You have actually given me valuable information in the past.
I'm glad! I don't dislike you either. I'm abrasive, I know, but I really try not to dislike anyone based on their internet persona. I'm glad.
So you don't want to be forced into a 3v9 but want to force others into it?
I'm so confused. If you want to Absolve then, go right ahead, but don't get butt hurt when we call you disrespectful cowards.
....from the very beginning, every single time this argument is brought up, it is people from the south accusing people in the north of not playing in a way that suits the south.
I am saying, as I have also said right from the start, that this isn't an issue of being accused of avoiding conflict or being "disrespectful" or whatever. This is about applying double standards when it suits the people making these accusations. This is such a partisan argument that people like you, who has participated in maybe 5% of all the fights has decided to come in and thinks it's okay to start calling us disrespectful for using the game mechanics how they are designed, while ignoring all the stuff that your side does.
I haven't even personally started any absolves that we weren't outnumbered for, but people from the south didn't want to come despite it being potentially 3v8 (though more realistically it would have been 3v5 or something), with no melder on our side and a melder on theirs for us. A couple of those actually ganked me earlier in the day. This was during these "off-peak" hours I am talking about. But for some strange reason, that doesn't count because at the end of the day, north is just full of disrespectful pricks who do nothing but ruin the lives of the south players, all of who are exemplars of respect and "fair" gaming.
And this is coming from someone who has been playing this game for 5% of the total time I have played this game, and been around, and has probably participated in a half of a percentile of the amount of fights I have been in. The reason why 5% of the fights happen is because you don't fight in my time zone, because you don't have a population then, and I don't raid empty houses.
The game mechanics are often bad and the root of the problem. One side has been here pointing out the problem with the game mechanics, and the other side is brushing them off and have used it to their advantage.
I don't care about numbers, I don't care about who or what, or even when you do it. Doing it is most of the problem because it is a bad mechanic that needs changing.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
And once again, it's "one side doesn't use the mechanics" when as far as anyone from the north can see, they're using the bloody mechanics just as we are. If you just stepped out of this holier-than-thou attitude you might be able to see that everyone does this. No ifs, no buts.
And this is coming from someone who has been playing this game for 5% of the total time I have played this game, and been around, and has probably participated in a half of a percentile of the amount of fights I have been in. The reason why 5% of the fights happen is because you don't fight in my time zone, because you don't have a population then, and I don't raid empty houses.
The game mechanics are often bad and the root of the problem. One side has been here pointing out the problem with the game mechanics, and the other side is brushing them off and have used it to their advantage.
I don't care about numbers, I don't care about who or what, or even when you do it. Doing it is most of the problem because it is a bad mechanic that needs changing.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion. Some people even agree with your opinion, but not everyone agrees with your opinion and it is not up to you to decide who gets to have the right opinion.
Whatever, we've entered the echo chamber at this point.
We've reach a level of dishonesty where people aren't even engaging in the points being made, they are rewriting their positions just to make jabs at the other side.
We'll only fight with Sidd, but we showed up 3v9 during a Domoth upgrade on Dramube without him. Obviously he's a leader, and people follow him, but implying we don't try without him in the face of evidence otherwise is no longer about having a discussion. It's just about trying to score points with your friends and all mass liking jabs against the other side, regardless of the validity.
We've just descended into a deep level of dishonesty that conversation isn't even happening.
It's a good thing you've said the correct word "we", the inclusion of everyone involved in the devolving of the looping debate that seems to be an endless nightmare about who did what to who, and the boohoos that is evident here. Absolves should be the least of concerns in the terms of political/conquest issues. Perhaps delving into other issues that are lacking and work from there, is all I can suggest from what I am reading from everyone explaining/discussing themselves in this.
Oops, everybody board the liar train, we're now not only avoiding Cyndarin at all costs, but we're also spiteful liars.
#delusion
#everyoneavoidsfightingme
Well.. I just personally think the avoiding issue is quite untrue, as it has been proven by me at least once, that we're not avoiding the "South" or whatever people have chosen to call ourselves to be in pitting each against the other. The terms were fair in regards to numbers versus skill, but in the one instance, it was purely numbers that was slightly even and -very- doable to have a winning chance at preventing my absolve on Cyndarin, after Avurekhos upgraded War. I'll just leave it at that, as its just a way of evidence and testimony that we're not avoiding her at all, nothing more to analyze or pick apart about it.
The argument of everyone does this has never flied with me.
If you don't want to be the better person, that is fine. But thankfully, I like being the better person, and I find that better people have congregated on one side more often than not.
I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and they have given it out plainly in this thread. In fact, many times, those on the North have said that absolving mechanics need changing, it's only now an issue when I call you a coward for abusing it while acknowledging that it needs changing.
If you think something needs changing and yet continue to use that mechanic, my belief is you do not have a right to defend your actions. You can point out that it was done in the past, I'm sure, but that doesn't absolve you of responsibility moving forward. The only way things will get changed is with partisan agreement.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Oops, everybody board the liar train, we're now not only avoiding Cyndarin at all costs, but we're also spiteful liars.
#delusion
#everyoneavoidsfightingme
Well.. I just personally think the avoiding issue is quite untrue, as it has been proven by me at least once, that we're not avoiding the "South" or whatever people have chosen to call ourselves to be in pitting each against the other. The terms were fair in regards to numbers versus skill, but in the one instance, it was purely numbers that was slightly even and -very- doable to have a winning chance at preventing my absolve on Cyndarin, after Avurekhos upgraded War. I'll just leave it at that, as its just a way of evidence and testimony that we're not avoiding her at all, nothing more to analyze or pick apart about it.
1 of 9 times? and the one time, we've mentioned repeatedly that it was 2:1 odds against us?
Yes, you are sooo not avoiding fighting. One minute raiding Etherglom, the next minute sitting pretty in Hallifax while we absolve because you 'don't think it's worth it'
You, specifically you @Aeden, are avoiding fights.
Oops, everybody board the liar train, we're now not only avoiding Cyndarin at all costs, but we're also spiteful liars.
#delusion
#everyoneavoidsfightingme
Well.. I just personally think the avoiding issue is quite untrue, as it has been proven by me at least once, that we're not avoiding the "South" or whatever people have chosen to call ourselves to be in pitting each against the other. The terms were fair in regards to numbers versus skill, but in the one instance, it was purely numbers that was slightly even and -very- doable to have a winning chance at preventing my absolve on Cyndarin, after Avurekhos upgraded War. I'll just leave it at that, as its just a way of evidence and testimony that we're not avoiding her at all, nothing more to analyze or pick apart about it.
1 of 9 times? and the one time, we've mentioned repeatedly that it was 2:1 odds against us?
Yes, you are sooo not avoiding fighting. One minute raiding Etherglom, the next minute sitting pretty in Hallifax while we absolve because you 'don't think it's worth it'
You, specifically you @Aeden, are avoiding fights.
The argument of everyone does this has never flied with me.
If you don't want to be the better person, that is fine. But thankfully, I like being the better person, and I find that better people have congregated on one side more often than not.
I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and they have given it out plainly in this thread. In fact, many times, those on the North have said that absolving mechanics need changing, it's only now an issue when I call you a coward for abusing it while acknowledging that it needs changing.
If you think something needs changing and yet continue to use that mechanic, my belief is you do not have a right to defend your actions. You can point out that it was done in the past, I'm sure, but that doesn't absolve you of responsibility moving forward. The only way things will get changed is with partisan agreement.
Except that I have stated many times that what I feel are an issue with Absolving mechanics are not what you feel are an issue. So calling us cowards for not adhering to your opinion of the mechanics is all about you.
Tangentially related, there's a trend I dislike of calling wrong or non-intellectually-rigorous or confused/confusing statements lies. Wrong people are not liars, they're wrong. The opposite of "True" is "False", not "Lie".
The argument of everyone does this has never flied with me.
If you don't want to be the better person, that is fine. But thankfully, I like being the better person, and I find that better people have congregated on one side more often than not.
I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and they have given it out plainly in this thread. In fact, many times, those on the North have said that absolving mechanics need changing, it's only now an issue when I call you a coward for abusing it while acknowledging that it needs changing.
If you think something needs changing and yet continue to use that mechanic, my belief is you do not have a right to defend your actions. You can point out that it was done in the past, I'm sure, but that doesn't absolve you of responsibility moving forward. The only way things will get changed is with partisan agreement.
Except that I have stated many times that what I feel are an issue with Absolving mechanics are not what you feel are an issue. So calling us cowards for not adhering to your opinion of the mechanics is all about you.
Usually that is what an opinion means, yes, my opinion is all about my perception.
We agree that Absolving is an issue. I actually have a whole issue with the Domoths in general, every stage of it, not just absolves. I am on board of what Falmiis said a day ago, that anything that is player initiated would be gamed. And I'm on board with what Maligorn and Yarith said, with more micro-related conflicts as opposed to the timed ones or quests. I am an envoy, I have the tools to suggest changes. There are 28 envoys and only 6 reports submitted last month.
We can all agree there are problems, but there hasn't been much done to fix them or even brainstorm while we await the Overhaul.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
I've held the only 2 domoths in the South for the past 3 weeks or so. Literally just me, Xenthos got his recently. Shango lost his back in April. I've absolved 4-5 times, 2 or 3 of which were heavily contested because the North had a large group logged on, and we absolved anyways.
What do you mean "as far as anyone in the North can tell?" ONE of my domoths has been absolved more than the entirety of the absolves against the North within the past month. The ratio of contested absolves isn't even close. No BS, no partisanship, no crap. This is just reality, it's math, it's counting.
Whatever you think that means, however you interpret that information, whatever you choose to do with it...that's completely your prerogative. But we can stop using hyperbole to play the victim and just discuss the actual math and facts, we'd probably come to a better understanding of the issue.
The reality is the simple math demonstrates it is not the same between the two sides in regards to absolves. What that is, well that's clearly going to be argued until we're all blue in the face and fingers. Yet we can at least agree, on a very basic level, the situations are very much not the same. There is no double standard, the baselines are very different.
There is no double standard, the baselines are very different.
There is definitely a double standard. The North is doing what ensures a win for the North. It's the same as, say, kicking mobs during the Harmony Challenge or killing people during Death. It's the same as the fortress meta for Chaos. It's the same as meldbombing a group of 5 while you sit safe away from the actual fight, 10 rooms away.
Eh, I'm late to the party, so I'll save my kerosene for a fresher bonfire than this one that's almost burned to coals.
But I just want to say, Twytch is right in the sense that the "win at all costs" is probably the attitude that goes behind most of Aeden's absolves. You can have a fairly robust argument if you want to accuse, say, Falmiis or Yarith of the same, because those would be people who could possibly find witnesses to stand for them (Shango would tell you Yarith tried negotiating a ceasefire when it was the two of them on Life/Death) and with a better track record.
But if you're trying to defend the motivation behind the last 10 absolves or so from Aeden as anything other than opportunisitic gaming of absolve mechanics... well. I like playing the devil's advocate myself at times, or fighting the underdog fight in debates, but that's a lost cause.
Also, Twtych, no one approached you about the fires because we don't negotiate with terrorists. When Arcanis was going around chopping Elders, we didn't negotiate with him, and we won't negotiate with you either. If you want any interaction out of your fires, help me petition the admin to add fires and elder chopping mechanics to cities. I'll give you all the responses you'll ever want then.
Everyone knows Aeden absolves to win. Half the time we don't even get told about it and find out when everyone else finds out. Nobody is debating that.
Hi, I don't usually get involved with the forums but this thread has me angry for a few reasons.
#1
Twytch said: Something about double standards and winning.
I agree winning is fun but to say there's a double standard is... well,
accurate. One of the North's key combatants got next to no punishment
for exploiting a bug with refresh. 5 days of peaced for two real life
months of constant bug exploitation which allowed him to drop no less
than 10 "meldbombs" on us in less than an hour. Also he would constantly use refresh so he could simply stand and fight as a druid.
So yes, double standards do exist.
#2
Hi,
This bullshit right here?
This whole thread and anything related to it?
Yah, this is why newbies don't come.
You know what ~I~ do when I'm
checking out a new mud or game?
Answer: Check the forums and learn about the community.
Ours looks like shit.
Stop.
Both sides, seriously stop.
Instead of working together to find actual solutions, a grand majority
of people have decided to turn the forums into a pissing contest for
avoiding conflict.
I don't get it.
Seriously stop.
Thanks,
Kreg
PS: I realize how #1 goes against what I said in #2, but I've been
avoiding the game because of how that whole thing was handled. I'm
rankled about it and I intend to go back to forum obscurity. Thanks.
Grah I got jumped by a Glom today twice in Faethorn! It was awful!
Because afterward they apologized for attacking me because they thought I was a noncom, despite the fact that I was actually trying to jump them the second time. Curse those incredibly kind and helpful Southern Alliance members who go out of their way to avoid jumping people who are shit at combat! Curse them and their (possibly excessive) sense of fair play!
(Actually lets not curse people, because this whole 'restraint' thing is pretty cool. Mad props to you, Ceros!)
Everyone knows Aeden absolves to win. Half the time we don't even get told about it and find out when everyone else finds out. Nobody is debating that.
If preferred... I can also just not bother with domothing too, if it makes everyone feel better. I am open to that idea easily!
Comments
I am saying, as I have also said right from the start, that this isn't an issue of being accused of avoiding conflict or being "disrespectful" or whatever. This is about applying double standards when it suits the people making these accusations. This is such a partisan argument that people like you, who has participated in maybe 5% of all the fights has decided to come in and thinks it's okay to start calling us disrespectful for using the game mechanics how they are designed, while ignoring all the stuff that your side does.
I haven't even personally started any absolves that we weren't outnumbered for, but people from the south didn't want to come despite it being potentially 3v8 (though more realistically it would have been 3v5 or something), with no melder on our side and a melder on theirs for us. A couple of those actually ganked me earlier in the day. This was during these "off-peak" hours I am talking about. But for some strange reason, that doesn't count because at the end of the day, north is just full of disrespectful pricks who do nothing but ruin the lives of the south players, all of who are exemplars of respect and "fair" gaming.
Don't give me this BS.
Well.. I just personally think the avoiding issue is quite untrue, as it has been proven by me at least once, that we're not avoiding the "South" or whatever people have chosen to call ourselves to be in pitting each against the other. The terms were fair in regards to numbers versus skill, but in the one instance, it was purely numbers that was slightly even and -very- doable to have a winning chance at preventing my absolve on Cyndarin, after Avurekhos upgraded War. I'll just leave it at that, as its just a way of evidence and testimony that we're not avoiding her at all, nothing more to analyze or pick apart about it.
1 of 9 times? and the one time, we've mentioned repeatedly that it was 2:1 odds against us? Yes, you are sooo not avoiding fighting. One minute raiding Etherglom, the next minute sitting pretty in Hallifax while we absolve because you 'don't think it's worth it' You, specifically you @Aeden, are avoiding fights.
Can we just play the game and stop crying on the forums so much? Good lord.
#1
Twytch said: Something about double standards and winning.
I agree winning is fun but to say there's a double standard is... well, accurate. One of the North's key combatants got next to no punishment for exploiting a bug with refresh. 5 days of peaced for two real life months of constant bug exploitation which allowed him to drop no less than 10 "meldbombs" on us in less than an hour. Also he would constantly use refresh so he could simply stand and fight as a druid.
So yes, double standards do exist.
#2
Hi,
This bullshit right here?
This whole thread and anything related to it?
Yah, this is why newbies don't come.
You know what ~I~ do when I'm checking out a new mud or game?
Answer: Check the forums and learn about the community.
Ours looks like shit. Stop.
Both sides, seriously stop.
Instead of working together to find actual solutions, a grand majority of people have decided to turn the forums into a pissing contest for avoiding conflict.
I don't get it.
Seriously stop.
Thanks, Kreg
PS: I realize how #1 goes against what I said in #2, but I've been avoiding the game because of how that whole thing was handled. I'm rankled about it and I intend to go back to forum obscurity. Thanks.
Because afterward they apologized for attacking me because they thought I was a noncom, despite the fact that I was actually trying to jump them the second time. Curse those incredibly kind and helpful Southern Alliance members who go out of their way to avoid jumping people who are shit at combat! Curse them and their (possibly excessive) sense of fair play!
(Actually lets not curse people, because this whole 'restraint' thing is pretty cool. Mad props to you, Ceros!)
If preferred... I can also just not bother with domothing too, if it makes everyone feel better. I am open to that idea easily!