Bodoru Situation

JolantheJolanthe Member Posts: 645 Mythical
This thread is meant to review an emergent economic issue within Lusternia and to try to look at it in a disconnected fashion removed from player emotion and biases. It might not be fully successful to that end, but I think it is worth the time investment to try.

Root issue: bodoru is very scarce, though mindoru and suporu are both present and mostly still at the same prices they have always been. This might seem befuddling unless one takes a close look at all of the beastmastery skills and which are the most popular, and which require what reagent. Bodoru has a strong use bias compared to its sibling reagents.

Reagents have effectively flooded the market since times where Wheel Spins and presents yielded loads of extra riftables. We are finally entering a window where it seems like the majority of the excess bodoru that was flooded into the game as a result of that has been used up or locked away by inactivity.

The formula for bodoru is 10 chervil, 10 colewort, and 1 mistletoe per piece. This is being established so we can better consider our next point: herb prices. This is what pricing looks like in the aetherplex right now -


***********************[ Aether manses selling chervil ]***********************
Manse Name               Description                             Stock    Price
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
225   salt               chervil (shop rift)                         5     42gp
531   Salvia             chervil (shop rift)                      8000     59gp
622   Twisted            chervil (shop rift)                        50     56gp
1680  Strange            chervil (shop rift)                      2018 100000gp
*******************************************************************************

**********************[ Aether manses selling colewort ]***********************
Manse Name               Description                             Stock    Price
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
225   salt               colewort (shop rift)                        2     21gp
245   darktower          colewort (shop rift)                     4693     20gp
531   Salvia             colewort (shop rift)                     6000     50gp
1143  present            colewort (shop rift)                       55      9gp
1527  seren_shop_3       colewort (shop rift)                     1500      5gp
1630  MAE                colewort (shop rift)                      336     15gp
1680  Strange            colewort (shop rift)                      173 100000gp
1733  Lace               colewort (shop rift)                     1059     35gp
*******************************************************************************

This is relevant to consider if you're not in a position to try to make or sell bodoru by harvesting all your own herbs first. If you need to rely on other people to harvest for you, you might be up against this sort of price scheming by which to plot your purchases. This undeniably will result in the price of bodoru skyrocketing relative to the other reagents all on its own, before factoring in potential increases to ensure the alchemist isn't merely breaking even.

Herbs are one of the few "commodities" in the game that are really only limited by player time investment. Even if herbs are horribly mismanaged and picked to oblivion, we are now at a point where many players could arguably sacrifice loads of essence to reclaim herbs with Nature's Gift if absolutely necessary. There is no waiting on villages to produce significant quantities. In that regard, watching the bodoru situation as it unfolds and develops might provide a lot of insight on player behaviours and choice, and provide interesting reflections on what we might do or consider for the economic overhaul that is in demand. And while it might be more individually profitable to keep details to ourselves, I think it might be interesting to share our thoughts on herb prices relative to reagents and so forth as it develops - on what we really believe is worthwhile or of proper value, or what could or should otherwise be done to promote more market activity.

Or, if nothing else, it's just kind of nice to point out for the administration and let them know I think this is worth keeping an eye on.

Comments

  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,454 Transcendent
    This is actually why I sprung for the chemset, I did a looot of body trains
  • DrastrathDrastrath Member Posts: 88 Apprentice
    edited November 2020
    I think a fix to this would be to simply move herbs and poisons(same issue) to a common skill. 


    Edit: Grammar
  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New ZealandMember Posts: 1,304 Mythical
    Colewort is also sought by chefs as well, as it is used in their PRESERVE skill, substantially increasing the decay timer of food products.
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 100 Capable
    edited November 2020
    One of the biggest obstacle to what is described above is the declining population mixed with the economical
    RP laws of most organisation AkA tradebans. People sometimes do have the skill / desire to help create items for those that ask on market; yet are unable to do so due to RP or laws.

    For example:

    I usually make bodoru, poisons, enchantments & much more in my shop in Glomdoring and offer it to people that seek me out for commissions free with comms or at a cost with little profit.

    Unfortunatly, that assistance is reserved for Celest & Glomdoring....with Hallifax being a recent addition.
    People from Magnagora, Serenwilde or Gaudiguch (Betrayal) are unfortunatly a writeoff. I am certain there's a lot of shopkeepers/traders/nice people that often see others ask on market and unfortunatly cannot provide assistance....even if they have the ability.

    Maybe a solution that could be considered, for this and other valuable goods, is to have a round table between all city leaders and a general agreement regarding this new economical reality rattified ?

    Roleplay shouldnt be an obstacle after all, but rather a reason to explore new possibilities and a way to seduce others to our beauty.


    PS: If you inhabit Celest, Glomdoring or Hallifax; I am always hiring for suppliers & crafters.
  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,454 Transcendent
    I don't really think most people pay much attention to tradebans unless they're looking to cause a scene
  • EveEve Member Posts: 37 Apprentice
    I do. And it is not to cause a scene, it is rp. My commune shop has 70ish(?) of Bodoru in stock, and hasn’t sold any in a while. I’d make more, but there isn’t a need. 
  • SapphiraSapphira Member Posts: 194 Virtuoso
    edited November 2020
    Wait, people follow trade bans? My aethershop is open to everyone because Celest's gold is no different to Magnagora's.

    I've been a bit slack lately about herbs and the like, it's a very time consuming trade with often minimal profit (looking at you any herb under 10gpu). I can spend a few minutes folding 100 origami to sell at 90 gold each, or I can take a lot longer to harvest 1000 herbs and sell for 9gpu if  I'm lucky, but more likely half that at best. I'm sure this factors into the pricing and availability. I'll get off my butt and restock bodoru this week. 
  • EveEve Member Posts: 37 Apprentice
    Sapphira said:

    I've been a bit slack lately about herbs and the like, it's a very time consuming trade with often minimal profit (looking at you any herb under 10gpu). 
    ^this. Harvesting is a chore. Yes, the grouping helped a little but I can’t hardly muster the effort to harvest and fill just my personal rifts. Much less have the extra time to harvest bulk for retail.
  • JolantheJolanthe Member Posts: 645 Mythical
    edited November 2020
    Sapphira said:
    Wait, people follow trade bans? My aethershop is open to everyone because Celest's gold is no different to Magnagora's.
    Think it depends on who you talk to and the general context. I don't care for trade bans myself, but have always just followed along with what Serenwilde has as law. I could probably press that argument, but I see it flying better in Magnagora than in Serenwilde just as a matter of roleplay policy.

    IMO, tradebans are just kind of there for the RP at this point and making a great fuss over them is more trouble than it is worth.

    This is sort of more besides the point, though. I think especially in this instance of reagents and herbs, the price of chervil is simply inflated because there's so much in holding in the event that it comes back as the sparkle-herb through the Major Domoth Blessing. There's almost always full rooms whenever I go looking - just not a lot of people out picking. The high prices in shops don't necessarily matter if herbalists without shops are interested in undercutting them - which they could do right now while still being fairly lucrative. I just don't see a lot of it happening for whatever reason, at least on the Ironhart side of things.

    EDIT:

    To emphasize, chervil has no other alchemical use other than making reagents. Colewort, in addition to being used for preserving, is also used to make purity dust and galvanism. It arguably has more competing factors to help drive up its price, but it is often less expensive than chervil. Not really sure how else to account for that discrepancy.
  • SapphiraSapphira Member Posts: 194 Virtuoso
    My biggest factor is the amount of time spent to harvest enough bulk herbs to sell. No one buys in batches of say, 100, they fill theirrift, and the time it takes to harvest all those herbs....it's tedious. i would probably harvest more often if it were less so! The price does baffle me on herbs and i'm one who generally tries to price around the average of other listings coupled with what i feel is fair or appropriate for the work.
     
    My comment about tradebans came before coffee, ha, and came across harsher than intended! i don't mean to discount the RP of people excluding/including certain orgs, especially in shops within the org, it was more surprise because i have noticed a lot of shops on the 'enemy' side that i can still buy from (and do) when needed.

    Some ingredients need looking at i think. There are herbs that are hardly used that could conceivably be switched to something that no longer has a use (earwort?) to keep it relevant and maybe not strip the supply of one regularly over others?
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning ** Member Posts: 1,818 Transcendent
    Loosely regarding the topic of harvesting for selling, I'd be more inclined to sell herbs if I didn't have to pay credits to make my shop rift bigger than a personal rift. Knowing that I could pack the shop full of desirable herbs just to have someone come through and buy them all out at once is...I mean it's nice to make fast money, but I'm not going to jump up and down over having to restock it again.

    Anyways, chervil. I think seeing it come back as the Nature herb is a rather unlikely future, so anyone holding onto phat stacks need to just give it up! I'd have no problem selling my cache for way lower than the market average at present, since it's not THAT hot of a commodity, but I can already see someone going and flipping it just because it would be low-hanging fruit (plant?). Market competition is good, but it will take a collaboration to tamp those prices down effectively.
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • JatiusJatius Member Posts: 50 Capable
    edited November 2020
    I've never followed tradebans in Lusternia, ever.

    Anyone needs some bodoru, hit me up. Your mats tho.
  • JolantheJolanthe Member Posts: 645 Mythical
    Eritheyl said:
    Loosely regarding the topic of harvesting for selling, I'd be more inclined to sell herbs if I didn't have to pay credits to make my shop rift bigger than a personal rift. Knowing that I could pack the shop full of desirable herbs just to have someone come through and buy them all out at once is...I mean it's nice to make fast money, but I'm not going to jump up and down over having to restock it again.
    This might be part of the problem too. Like, even I don't consider myself a true for-profit merchant - I just do it for kicks. So I actually get kind of depressed when things sell out too fast, or all at once. Not always motivated to restock again right away.
  • AeralAeral Member Posts: 331 Expert
    Jolanthe said:
    Eritheyl said:
    Loosely regarding the topic of harvesting for selling, I'd be more inclined to sell herbs if I didn't have to pay credits to make my shop rift bigger than a personal rift. Knowing that I could pack the shop full of desirable herbs just to have someone come through and buy them all out at once is...I mean it's nice to make fast money, but I'm not going to jump up and down over having to restock it again.
    This might be part of the problem too. Like, even I don't consider myself a true for-profit merchant - I just do it for kicks. So I actually get kind of depressed when things sell out too fast, or all at once. Not always motivated to restock again right away.
    A lot of what I stock is at cost, so I understand this too. 
    Avatar by the amazing @Feyrll
  • SapphiraSapphira Member Posts: 194 Virtuoso
    i just made 200 bodoru - the time to harvest enough herbs to make that is UGH. i wonder how long we actually got by on an influx of reagents due to presents etc, meaning we didn't actually need to make it, and now we do it seems like reagents require too many commodities for little return (adding in all the teas to this too). Maybe that's something to consider? We rehashed comm costs for design trades, what about our alchemy type trades?
  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,454 Transcendent
    Apparently I have over 1000 chervil
  • XiranXiran Member Posts: 196 Virtuoso
    Herbalist here. Will pay in herbs per loan or credits on IG yearly basis to borrow artifacts. I tend to skip over chervil and colewort but can pitch in.

    Jolanthe said:
    This might be part of the problem too. Like, even I don't consider myself a true for-profit merchant - I just do it for kicks. So I actually get kind of depressed when things sell out too fast, or all at once. Not always motivated to restock again right away.

    Agreeing. Trying to gather herbs to refill shop kegs from scratch is an effort. Pain points: 2200 juniper for 200 vial refills each of healing, restorative ice, and frost. 2600 marjoram for 200 vial refills each of mana, bromides, restorative ice.
    Currently: Active weekends, UTC-4.

    Avatar made through Picrew
Sign In or Register to comment.