Best Of
Re: Dramaturgy Climax
Esano said:(just dominate sip).
Not gonna lie, I decided this was pretty genius when I realised what you were doing. I ended up making a reflex to drain whatever vial you dropped or handed me into my rift and then emptying it just in case you caught me with it again.
Re: A stick? A stick!
It's boring if you never take the bait! Aw yeah, happy fun stick times!
Taemira
7
Re: Lack of Raves VI: Rave Today, Tweet Tomorrow
one of the alternatives I was working on was basically...Orti said:So. Badass.Saran said:Crafted from deer leather, this pair of fingerless gloves has been tailored to provide a snug fit that can be further adjusted with a simple buckle and strap. Knotwork traces the back of the gloves, forming an abstract image of a tree. Barely discernible wisps of mist trail off the knotwork with the slightest motion. Their story is told in the signs of weathering that cover the gloves: the faded colours, the scar-like cracks and scratches, the lack of lustre to their buckles. Despite this, they are firmly intact, their age simply marked upon them.Raising your hands in supplication, you feel a slight chill from a pair of weathered deerskin gloves as Ancestral spirits fade into view. As one the dead raise their bows to the sky and release their arrows.Arrows wreathed in bursts of steam and beams of holy light rain down upon a large wood weevil.You have scored a CRITICAL hit!You focus on your wasted efforts, resolving to shift the damage forward.A large wood weevil has been shot down by a pair of weathered deerskin gloves.
Nice!
Saran
1
Re: Dramaturgy Climax
I don't think it's a case of anyone thinking applying the lust solution will 'fix' the skill, but rather than the design of it is a needless penalty to having allies lusted.
It doesn't NEED to work that way, and there's no harm changing it, especially as you say, you can apply lust easily on your own, and it means tarot users aren't penalised for having people lusted for Empress. You don't NEED to penalise them for it.
It doesn't NEED to work that way, and there's no harm changing it, especially as you say, you can apply lust easily on your own, and it means tarot users aren't penalised for having people lusted for Empress. You don't NEED to penalise them for it.
Yinuish
1
Re: Dramaturgy Climax
Drastrath said:You realize lust to the dramaturgist is a "freebie" affliction either way just like "pacifism"? Lust can be subtext(hidden) and tea/rubeus can be stripped with a double pacifism meaning PeacefulCompanion is going to hit. The hidden lust is virtually untraceable. This means that if you are at 90% ego then the double climax is going to kill you. This is what this post was supposed to be about. The lust fix isn't a fix at all. It is hardly a nerf to climax. So four balances you can hit a double climax for 2 hits of ego each. The issue really is CompatriotofChaos and how it works with Climax.
My kills will not in any way be hindered by the lust nerf since I normally prime my climax with a subtext lust anyway.
@Parhelion Care to expand or should I just change my mind because you say so?
I think you're missing the point, and I can't tell if it's intentional or not
I understand and agree that a dramaturgist (?) Should be able to lust you and have that as an affliction that adds damage and stun to their climax on you. No arguments here.
I have an issue with the idea that I should not be able to be lusted to anyone at all without it adding damage to my climax. If Azula, or Alexandria, or Nelras, or Aramel lusts me for empress, this shouldn't be a 20% damage buff for Silvanus. If rolsand or some other psymet is walking around with pheromones locked, this shouldn't give Silvanus a damage buff. If Magnagora douses themselves in love potion, it shouldn't give Silvanus a damage buff.
If Silvanus has love potion up and it procs on his target? Sure. If my ally has love potion up and it makes me fall deeply in love with them, Silvanus shouldn't get a 20% increase to his damage.
Re: Dramaturgy Climax
Cacophony have demonstrated that Climax works well for them, not Dramaturgy as a whole. The "niche skillset, no good without Climax" absolutely applies to Caco. I didn't even bother to set up other scenes/aliases until people started rejecting everyone.
I think part of the reason Climax is so unique in the above kill-check respect is because bards, even dramaturgy bards, lack the infrastructure to properly pressure ego. If you're in a position to pressure ego you're in a position to healthkill through aurics instead. Climax is so powerful because it basically manufactures an ego kill process entirely on its own, trying to tie it into an aff-based skill, and it's terrible even as an aff skill: we've hacked it together by applying beast attacks because dramaturgy can't stick anything other than lust and necroscream, at least, has no overlapping affs (just dominate sip).
So basically any change here, including the original suggestions, reduces Climax to a group snipe insta. So it becomes a question of which change is sufficient and then easiest. We can come back during a more normal report cycle and try and fix it properly, which could involve tweaking things or even changing how Climax works entirely. But at the moment it's broken in a way that's bad for the game.
I think part of the reason Climax is so unique in the above kill-check respect is because bards, even dramaturgy bards, lack the infrastructure to properly pressure ego. If you're in a position to pressure ego you're in a position to healthkill through aurics instead. Climax is so powerful because it basically manufactures an ego kill process entirely on its own, trying to tie it into an aff-based skill, and it's terrible even as an aff skill: we've hacked it together by applying beast attacks because dramaturgy can't stick anything other than lust and necroscream, at least, has no overlapping affs (just dominate sip).
So basically any change here, including the original suggestions, reduces Climax to a group snipe insta. So it becomes a question of which change is sufficient and then easiest. We can come back during a more normal report cycle and try and fix it properly, which could involve tweaking things or even changing how Climax works entirely. But at the moment it's broken in a way that's bad for the game.
Esano
5
Re: Dramaturgy Climax
For Lust, it is a super easy setup and really only slowed me down by 3.5 seconds. Even right now, I have enemies on my lust list right now (reject me people) that would end up being climax bait to me. You don't even need to hide Lust in a subtext, you can just do a Scene with Lust as the primary and no one will think to Reject you right away. It is a free 1/5 to your death.
Next, as Necroscream, the only affliction I can give to you in the Dramaturgy list is when I dominate you to sip a poison. So, I would dominate you to sip ibululu, that is 1/5 to your death. Other bards are able to give more Dramaturgy afflictions, but they would not be able to give it on command as a free action the way Cacophony can. It would have to be more timing dependent to replicate passively.
The next phase was Compatriot of Chaos, which is definitely part of the issue, because it has a chance of giving 1-3 afflictions out of paranoia, stupidity, clumsiness and amnesia. 3 of those 4 are on the list needed for Climax. You can be up to 3/5 closer to your death dependent on a very lucky RNG from CoC, which I don't think I have seen happen yet actually. If CoC gave one affliction that you needed, you also didn't resist the sip of ibululu, and you never rejected me from lust, you were dead. That would be 3/5 affs needed for the first climax to do 30% of the ego damage, that would leave you stunned long enough to be chained for the next one when you are still afflicted with the same 3 afflictions to do the 30% more ego damage and dead.
The best suggestion is probably just to have the ego check occur before the skill instead of after the skill like the other ones. That would disable my kill strategy above and at least slow down two bards. Most suggestions still leave you prone to being bombed by multiple bards, but that could be true for multiple instakills. Why I think having some form of stun and keep the power low to do it
twice is important? Because similar to DChord, that is the only way a
bard will be able to pressure vitals enough. If you are not stunned, how
is the Dramaturgist bard supposed to take advantage of it?
Dramaturgy will need work once Climax gets nerfed to better fit with bard classes. I personally think the scenes are too slow with how simple curing is, but Necroscream doesn't work well with dramaturgy at all so I am probably a bad source on how good it actually is.
Silvanus
2
Re: Dramaturgy Climax
Smacking people down via class stacking has always been an issue for Lusternia. I don't see a need to single out Dramaturgy bards and say "hey, no multi-climaxes allowed" when wiccans/guardians/melders can be stacked for similar effects. Climax is unique in that it deals the ego damage before checking the instakill parameters (are you below 50% AFTER Climax drains your ego? Dead.) I think most of us know that by now but I'm just reiterating what makes Climax particularly unique.
So, the opposite argument becomes true at this point. Why does Climax get to be so special that it decides if you're dead after it drains your ego? Well, I would consider it to be a subpar skillset, but maybe not for commune bards. Cacophony have demonstrated that it works really well for them. Minstrels can also use it pretty well, because mental affs are great for playing with Illuminati (plus they have some inherent ego drains in their songs).
So if a skillset is good for three (Cacos, Minstrels and Spiritsingers imo), then it can't really hide behind the "niche skillset, no good without Climax" argument. Plus as Silvanus has mentioned, Compatriot of Chaos being universally available also makes Climax all the more viable. It's good food for thought.
My opinion is that the target of Climax must be lusted to the enacting bard for a lust-embedded Climax to calculate its damage. And if that's not enough, bring Climax in line by making it only kill if the target is actually at 50% or below ego when the button is pressed, otherwise just do the ego damage (and maybe take a look at reducing the stun timer?). Multiple bards will still be able to Climax people fairly simply, but to me that's not any different than getting my mana bombed by some powersink shenanigans, or Succumb, or getting timewarp built to massive in a couple of seconds by 2+ researchers, etc etc etc.
Maligorn
2
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