@Lavinya - I wouldn't take a single word @Tetra says personally or even seriously. He's consistently proven himself to be ignorant and arrogant. He'll probably rageqq again in a couple of weeks
Good thing, since I don't take things you say personally or seriously either. The best way I could sum up arrogance and ignorance is pretending you know a complete stranger over the internet. Kind of like how you think you know me, lol.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
@Lavinya - I wouldn't take a single word @Tetra says personally or even seriously. He's consistently proven himself to be ignorant and arrogant. He'll probably rageqq again in a couple of weeks
Good thing, since I don't take things you say personally or seriously either. The best way I could sum up arrogance and ignorance is pretending you know a complete stranger over the internet. Kind of like how you think you know me, lol.
Right, you've never posted anything before that could possibly allow me to form an opinion of you and the typical judgmental drivel you post, never had an interaction on these forums or within the game that could possibly justify my opinion (one that 4 other people agreed with, they must not know you at all either). /sarcasm
Right, you've never posted anything before that could possibly allow me to form an opinion of you and the typical judgmental drivel you post, never had an interaction on these forums or within the game that could possibly justify my opinion (one that 4 other people agreed with, they must not know you at all either). /sarcasm
The truth is, you don't know me, the player(Tristan), and never will. Please don't assume otherwise.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
Right, you've never posted anything before that could possibly allow me to form an opinion of you and the typical judgmental drivel you post, never had an interaction on these forums or within the game that could possibly justify my opinion (one that 4 other people agreed with, they must not know you at all either). /sarcasm
The truth is, you don't know me, the player(Tristan), and never will. Please don't assume otherwise.
Well, considering the consistent nature of your posting over the years and the consistent content of such posts, what else should I assume? But very well my bad.
@Lavinya - I apologize for my earlier comment. You should take @Tetra's comment very honestly and seriously. Despite his past tendencies to post incredibly opinionated, arrogant, ignorant statements, I have no solid ground to base my opinion on his posts and thus retract what I previously said. Obviously a person's history doesn't define who they are, which is good news for me as well. Yay! I'm sorry for the misinformation displayed earlier
I was actually responding to Lerad. I could, obviously, explain my character's reasoning and thoughts and general history and every little event that has lead to her thinking the way she does, but it seems pointless outside of the game, to me. I'm happy to rp with people who want to get to know Lavinya. I'm less encouraged to justify her actions oocly when it's obvious I'm damned either way.
Basically - when it happens in game, it's easy to fob it off as criticism of the character and roleplay and it's no problem. When it's out of the game, it's a lot harder to not take it personally. I don't think anyone should have to be called to account to explain their ic actions. I feel like I'm on trial or something for just playing a character who is very far from perfect.
Anyways, back on topic:
It's true that it can be entirely pointless out of the game. But sometimes, talking about it can bring about new insight or make us ask questions like "Why did I choose that?" Then again nobody is obligated to answer to anyone else about their own roleplay, unless it affects them personally.
Trust me when I say I understand what it's like to be a walking trial. I could also try to explain my character's reasoning, thoughts, and history, but players form their opinions and once it's crystallized fully, they begin projecting that onto you. Out of character is different, because it's impersonal. The character isn't 'you', so it's okay that their actions are criticized.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
It's been niggling at me, when you (and others have alluded to as well) say -I-wouldn't have done that, or I would have done that differently. You know what? That's fine, but no one else plays Lavinya and knows better how to keep her true to character than me, so I'm not sure it's particularly helpful advice after all.
It might not be against forum rules, but I think it's bad form to post a log of an event/something while at the same time going after IC resolution of some sort. Let the IG stuff happen first, then post all about it once it's done.
There was never a topic to get back too, because this thread shouldn't have existed until after all the IC stuff was taken care of (which, 99% of people, including the people in Mag like myself, have no idea what resulted from this).
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
It's been niggling at me, when you (and others have alluded to as well) say -I-wouldn't have done that, or I would have done that differently. You know what? That's fine, but no one else plays Lavinya and knows better how to keep her true to character than me, so I'm not sure it's particularly helpful advice after all.
It's one thing to be free and do whatever you want, because Lavinya is a grown woman, etc. It's another to act far removed from the consequences of what you do. Having your own freedom isn't like saying ''This is my freedom so I have a barrier and you can't tear me down or judge me for it." When what you do infringes on other people, you have to take what's coming back at you and be responsible for it. I'm sorry, but that's just the way life works.
Please don't treat my advice like an attack when it isn't.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
The villager is alive again, praise Nil. We can close the topic now, amirite?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
IMO, this thread is one of the more interesting ones I've read lately. Besides the epeen wagging and snarky BS, it's fascinating to see how different people believe this should have been handled. As for me, I think the following things:
1: people should not be able to unenemy themselves. While I realise that this outwardly has no bearing on this event, it kind of does. See: Malarious' exodus from Magnagora long ago, where he went through and killed every single denizen, unenemying himself afterwards because "it is my will". Accidents happen; intentionally killing your own denizens should not, without make consequences.
2: I believe Lavinya should have in the very least been charged a fine for each villager she ordered killed. Council member or not, none should be above the law.
3: while villagers can be considered as cattle or commodities, there are both mechanical and rp consequences for killing them. Maybe the admin might have made the village revolt, refusing to be taken by Magnagora? Perhaps commodity deliveries should have decreased noticeably, or the admin could have staged a minor event where this had repercussions. We/admin lost a chance for some interesting rp here.
4: while I agree that Tetra is usually a fountain of douchebaggery, I think his point is generally valid. If I'm reading it right, he's simply stating that leaders shouldn't believe themselves immune to laws, breaking them with impunity. It not only eroded confidence in the system, it makes for a horrible example.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Ugh, I hate typing long posts on my phone. Hopefully that's readable.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
for the love of god, please stop posting on this thread. Please. Please please please. None of you know the full story, no one bothered to ask me the full story in game, I'm sick of being accused of ooc power abuse or skipping out on consequences. One the one hand you people say it's just a discussion, while on the other you're all critisizing my behaviour. Everyone is saying what 'should' have happened, what 'should' have been done to me. Basically saying, there is a right way, and a wrong way, and my way was the wrong way. This is so not true. Please please please can we just let this go? Lavinya is not accountable to you people, she is accountable to Magnagora (and guess what, no one bothered to even ask her what happened).
This thread is not a theoretical debate on the killing of denizens (it could have been, if not for the logs and the bashing of my actions), it's just a criticism. It's not even constructive, because who is going to outline the one and only true way to roleplay an Iron Councillor who happens to also be a Nihilist (at the time) and the Chosen of Legion and married into this family with red hair and a thing for fancy dresses? Because obviously I've been playing Lavinya all wrong all these years. And the people playing their characters that didn't punish me for my 'obnoxious behaviour' (tell me again how that wasn't an insult, Tetra?) are obviously playing their characters all wrong too.
That is seriously what I am getting from this. I am sure you are all going to tell me it's not personal and blah blah but I bet if you were sitting in my shoes right now you might be feeling a little upset about it too. PLEASE. Can we not? No more? I am a terrible Iron Councillor, I admit it, let's go back and hang me and fine me and kick me out but just let this thread diiiiiiiie.
If you read my first post, I'm praising Shikha specifically, because she decided to do something I approved of. You decided to add your own two cents, which is fine, and you asked me to tell you how I felt about your choices in-game. Nobody made it about you or even mentioned your name?
Whatever I say or do, it is going to be taken as an insult apparently. Come off it, Lavinya.
Another thing, please don't ever put words in my mouth. I did not call your behaviour obnoxious, I did not call you a bad roleplayer, or any of the things you are thinking in your mind. Maybe if it's bothering you so much, it's time to step away from the forum and breathe.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
I applaud you for having the integrity and wit to call people out on their nonsense. Stuff like this happens more than I'd like to admit. Generally, it's the players who hold a position of authority for extended periods of time and believe themselves unimpeachable or 'above the system'. If anyone challenges them, they get upset and try to shut you down, because.
I also find it odd that slaughtering entire settlements of denizens is a casual activity enjoyed by Light-loving disciples of Raziela...Strange.
You do realise....that I was the person who was supposedly carrying on with 'nonsense'? How was I NOT supposed to be offended by that post? I was the person in this log. I was the person you congratulated Shikha for calling out. So again. Why should I have not been insulted?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I don't understand why you're feeling all this heat, Lavinya. Aside from maybe Tetra, no one in the last page at least has tried to "outline the one and only true way to roleplay an Iron Councillor who happens ot also be a Nihilist (at the time) and the Chosen of Legion and married into this family with red hair and a thing for fancy dresses". No one, including Tetra, has said anything about Lavinya being played "all wrong all these years". Nor anything about other characters who didn't punish Lavinya "playing their characters all wrong too".
One thing I do agree with you is that the topic of this thread has probably been exhausted - Shikha, the OP, has long since retired, apparently completely satisfied at the (unfortunately short-lived) discussion in the first couple of pages. Those with opinions have had the fair space to air them, and even the gossips and bystanders who are in here only to sate their curiosity (ie. myself) have gotten interesting new viewpoints about how Magnagora's role in the game is defined by both members inside it and those who look at the org from outside.
Yet, you look at this as a witch hunt, and I am genuinely baffled as to why.
I sincerely hope this forum will continue to support and promote discussions of all sorts, including other threads like this, dealing with any other org or group of people. As a participant of this forum, I would hate to see this form of conversation shut down for any reason.
Ok I am going to bring it back in character. Leo was approached about the issue as the Warlord to rule on the matter. For him the decision was simple, why shouldn't we use the resources at our disposal. Llandros posted just before me but summed up my thoughts in a simple line, "Anything that is not permanently
aligned with Magnagora is either a tool or a target". Magnagora has the its Pantheon for a reason (each was a traitor) and we are not soft and lovely to our villages. In fact we threaten them in order to make them align to us. Here was my post on the matter (http://pastebin.com/0ZQNafhJ)
That being said, Leo has respect for Shikha (she taught him how to fight) and gave her the time to state her case and even made compromises to mitigate such issues in the future.
So that is IC what happened. You can all say it is wrong and you should have done it this way or that but it is RP keep it in game and enjoy the development (that is not a dig at Shikha, more a laugh at soft Celestians who think they know how Mag RP should occur).
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
((For all of you thinking, "Leo is blindly supporting his RL wife Lavy again", this happened on a weekend we were away. In fact I didn't talk to Lavy about it and logged in and addressed the matter before she got a chance to talk to me about it. The first time we spoke was to say how much we like Llandros' post but all was said and done.))
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
Really, if the Nihilists believed that Lavinya was misrepresenting them, she would have already been contested and replaced.
She wasn't though.
So that's that.
I appreciate that sentiment so much Maligorn, but I am the family council rep at the moment, not technically elected....>_>
Anyway. Maybe I am overreacting but I do feel like I'm in the hot seat over it. So I'm just going to tear it off like a bandaid and stop reading replies for my own sanity, because admittedly it has made me rather upset.
You do realise....that I was the person who was supposedly carrying on with 'nonsense'? How was I NOT supposed to be offended by that post? I was the person in this log. I was the person you congratulated Shikha for calling out. So again. Why should I have not been insulted?
So because you're offended, I can't praise Shikha? Ok.
I'm not asking you to feel any certain way. Believe it or not there are other people in the game who fit the description I mentioned. In fact, I have been one of those people before, and I had to pay dearly for my choices. When I make a statement that encompasses a certain mindset, it is from experience, not a judgment call. I don't interact with Lavinya so I can't speak from first-hand experience what she is like, but there's a big difference between saying "I don't agree with what you did." and "You're a terrible player, you're wrong, you're the worst." I know you want to paint your character as a haughty evil one and that's perfectly fine, but you just don't shit on your doorstep.
I also don't care who is Iron Council or whatever. What I'm saying isn't directed at you but at this attitude or mindset. The fact that some org leaders(not all, that's painting everyone with the same brush) act like they're successful or famous for being in their position. Just because you're a guild leader doesn't mean you can swan around the place and act like you own the world. No you don't. Stop worrying about "Oh that persons judging me!" because they probably aren't, it's just something in your head. If you looked at what I said positively and tried taking something away from it then that gives you a better understanding and creates bridges. Life is about creating bridges and when all you do is burn them you aren't going to get very far. Again, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking that mindset. I don't want you to be offended, but I think some people should take a step and reevaluate.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
So that is IC what happened. You can all say it is wrong and you should have done it this way or that but it is RP keep it in game and enjoy the development (that is not a dig at Shikha, more a laugh at soft Celestians who think they know how Mag RP should occur).
I started playing Lusternia when I was 14 years old. That's coming up almost 9 years now. Most of my characters have been predominantly Magnagoran/Glomdoring. I came up under the likes of Shayle, Nariah, and Sthai, some of the meanest, cruellest, and coolest b****** in the game. Tetra has also done things much worse than kill villagers that involve abusing power. Actually, he has probably done some of the most evil things of any character in Mag or otherwise. Just because my main is in another org doesn't mean I'm unaware of the roleplay conventions in yours.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
This thread has long ago lost whatever constructive or interesting elements it may have had and has devolved into pointless mudslinging. Thus it is now closed.
Comments
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
The villager is alive again, praise Nil. We can close the topic now, amirite?
1: people should not be able to unenemy themselves. While I realise that this outwardly has no bearing on this event, it kind of does. See: Malarious' exodus from Magnagora long ago, where he went through and killed every single denizen, unenemying himself afterwards because "it is my will". Accidents happen; intentionally killing your own denizens should not, without make consequences.
2: I believe Lavinya should have in the very least been charged a fine for each villager she ordered killed. Council member or not, none should be above the law.
3: while villagers can be considered as cattle or commodities, there are both mechanical and rp consequences for killing them. Maybe the admin might have made the village revolt, refusing to be taken by Magnagora? Perhaps commodity deliveries should have decreased noticeably, or the admin could have staged a minor event where this had repercussions. We/admin lost a chance for some interesting rp here.
4: while I agree that Tetra is usually a fountain of douchebaggery, I think his point is generally valid. If I'm reading it right, he's simply stating that leaders shouldn't believe themselves immune to laws, breaking them with impunity. It not only eroded confidence in the system, it makes for a horrible example.
This thread is not a theoretical debate on the killing of denizens (it could have been, if not for the logs and the bashing of my actions), it's just a criticism. It's not even constructive, because who is going to outline the one and only true way to roleplay an Iron Councillor who happens to also be a Nihilist (at the time) and the Chosen of Legion and married into this family with red hair and a thing for fancy dresses? Because obviously I've been playing Lavinya all wrong all these years. And the people playing their characters that didn't punish me for my 'obnoxious behaviour' (tell me again how that wasn't an insult, Tetra?) are obviously playing their characters all wrong too.
That is seriously what I am getting from this. I am sure you are all going to tell me it's not personal and blah blah but I bet if you were sitting in my shoes right now you might be feeling a little upset about it too. PLEASE. Can we not? No more? I am a terrible Iron Councillor, I admit it, let's go back and hang me and fine me and kick me out but just let this thread diiiiiiiie.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
You do realise....that I was the person who was supposedly carrying on with 'nonsense'? How was I NOT supposed to be offended by that post? I was the person in this log. I was the person you congratulated Shikha for calling out. So again. Why should I have not been insulted?
Then why are you reading it?
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
The same reason we like to watch train wrecks
One thing I do agree with you is that the topic of this thread has probably been exhausted - Shikha, the OP, has long since retired, apparently completely satisfied at the (unfortunately short-lived) discussion in the first couple of pages. Those with opinions have had the fair space to air them, and even the gossips and bystanders who are in here only to sate their curiosity (ie. myself) have gotten interesting new viewpoints about how Magnagora's role in the game is defined by both members inside it and those who look at the org from outside.
Yet, you look at this as a witch hunt, and I am genuinely baffled as to why.
I sincerely hope this forum will continue to support and promote discussions of all sorts, including other threads like this, dealing with any other org or group of people. As a participant of this forum, I would hate to see this form of conversation shut down for any reason.
Ok I am going to bring it back in character. Leo was approached about the issue as the Warlord to rule on the matter. For him the decision was simple, why shouldn't we use the resources at our disposal. Llandros posted just before me but summed up my thoughts in a simple line, "Anything that is not permanently aligned with Magnagora is either a tool or a target". Magnagora has the its Pantheon for a reason (each was a traitor) and we are not soft and lovely to our villages. In fact we threaten them in order to make them align to us. Here was my post on the matter (http://pastebin.com/0ZQNafhJ)
That being said, Leo has respect for Shikha (she taught him how to fight) and gave her the time to state her case and even made compromises to mitigate such issues in the future.
So that is IC what happened. You can all say it is wrong and you should have done it this way or that but it is RP keep it in game and enjoy the development (that is not a dig at Shikha, more a laugh at soft Celestians who think they know how Mag RP should occur).
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
((For all of you thinking, "Leo is blindly supporting his RL wife Lavy again", this happened on a weekend we were away. In fact I didn't talk to Lavy about it and logged in and addressed the matter before she got a chance to talk to me about it. The first time we spoke was to say how much we like Llandros' post but all was said and done.))
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
I appreciate that sentiment so much Maligorn, but I am the family council rep at the moment, not technically elected....>_>
Anyway. Maybe I am overreacting but I do feel like I'm in the hot seat over it. So I'm just going to tear it off like a bandaid and stop reading replies for my own sanity, because admittedly it has made me rather upset.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!