Naraj vs Rastamutti

MaligornMaligorn WindborneMember Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
http://www.logsty.net/logs/wRxXQ

This happened in about 60 seconds or less.

Looking for suggestions on what I could have done better, right now I have listed for myself:

-get a combat beast

-get mantra prism under control

-weapon runes, vitality runes?

-trans Tattoos

I am like, flabbergasted. Also note that Rastamutti enjoys the full Dodging bonus from Acrobatics, because he has tattoo armour too.

Wat do?

Tattoo armour puts me at 61/61, full set of tattoos but not trans in the skill (yet).

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Comments

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    OH GOD I FORGOT TO PUT UP REBOUNDING

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  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    Also parry/stancing? I kind of panicked.

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    You are afflicted with righttendon.(m&m): (this aff, righttendon, is missing from m&m's affmessages db - this is a minor thing)




    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor Member Posts: 1,274 Transcendent
    Not sure if m&m has default values for applying health to wounds, but be sure that your wound curing is working. Didn't see you send any apply healths, even before you started sipping bromides, which would have caused monk damage to spike. Which is probably another thing that would have helped, adjusting your prios so that sparkle/scroll covers ego if you're using bloodboil and you keep potion balance free for applying health.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    Often, MM won't cure wounds from checking WOUNDS, try WS for WOUNDS SIMPLE.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    that is not a minor thing.
  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 249 Gifted
    (Yay beast I designed is in use!)

    @Marcella It is a minor thing, because the afflictions still get recognised by the actual line:
     Your right leg buckles as the chain nearly saws it off.
    This one right here, (Note: it says affmessages db, not aff db).

     Pretty much do what Ushaara said. You're gonna need to check wounds / diags more often, and alter your 'sipper' to let it cure wounds > health sipping. Against Ninja, you're also gonna need to learn to not tunnel vision your offence as well, and play more defensively. Make katas that are specifically for hindering, or run, shield (rebounding is pointless versus Ninjakari).

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  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Your first major mistake was in using bloodboil. It is generally a bad idea to use bloodboil in any PK scenario. The more bleeding you expect to take, the more counter-productive it is. On first sight, bloodboil is a great bleeding counter. It takes the bleed damage and tanks it with ego, leaving your health and mana pool untouched as well as removing the bleed itself when it ticks - so there're no secondary ticks.

    However, it may seem counter-intuitive, but when you try to spread damage over multiple resource pools, you are inherently handicapping your own curing ability. The very reason why bleeding is devastating in the first place is because it attacks 2 resource pools at once - health and mana, since it costs mana to clot. When you willingly open up your third pool, ego, to it, you end up having to maintain three pools with no increase in curing ability. Note that mana is used in almost every spell, so whether or not you have bleed, you need to maintain mana anyway. Exacerbating this is the fact that if you hit zero ego, you lose all your psymet defences, passive or locked. The threat itself makes bloodboil a timebomb burden that has way more cons than pros.

    Bloodboil is awesome for bashing, especially against bleeding npcs like fesixes etc. This is because when bashing, the damage you are dealing with is a one-dimensional tug-of-war. The less damage you take to your health pool, the better, and it doesn't matter how low your ego and mana fall. Well, burnout when bashing is still painful, but at least it is not fatal. A burnout as a psymet in a PK fight means you're out of the fight, and any other fights, for however long burnout lasts.

    Also, when fighting against monks, you're not fighting against the linear, predictable damage output of npcs. Monk damage stacks exponentially with wounds. While maintaining low wounds doesn't block (most of) their afflictions, it does prevent the damage from spiralling out of control like it did in this spar. Therefore, applying health to cure wounds is every bit as important against monks as it is against warriors. For ninjas, applying health is extremely important. More important than all other monk guilds, because of their numbed affliction. The numbed affliction is cured along with wounds with every health apply, and it stacks with itself to slow balance if left uncured. Leaving them uncured if you're a physical class is suicide. M&M checks and deals with ninja wounds relatively well. You just need to maintain a high enough health (or tweak your health sipping priorities) so that it will apply health. Another thing some people don't factor in is that poison transfer rate is tied to wounds as well. Janalon tested this once, I believe, and Malarious helped confirm it. I'm not sure if an admin came out to confirm it as well, but the idea is that the more wounded the bodypart, the higher the chance for the poison to transfer if it is hitting that bodypart. (Shrugging is separate.)

    Speaking of poisons, mantakaya is your bane. You notice that Rasta did a very good job of either using his beast to paralyse, or landing paralysis on his first attack in the form. This is very important, because paralysis disables stance and parry. It doesn't matter that you took a second to get out of it. The first-hit paralysis guarantees his following attacks ignore stance/parry. This is especially useful for monks, who have three attacks, each that has a separate chance of getting stanced or parried - and that also have the potential to give an affliction. To counter poisons, keep your wounds low, as mentioned, or put lessons into resilience. You will be surprised at how much of a difference it makes. The natural shrugging rate will screw that beast spit over at some of the most critical times. What remains next is to make sure your stance/parry is up to par. The weakness of ninjas is that stancing or parrying that chain-grapple (or its ender) is devastating for their affliction output.

    Other than enabling your stance and parry to actually work, blocking that paralysis is also very important because, if I remember correctly, paralysis counts for the monk prone-damage-modifier. Which is a 50% increase in damage. You won't notice it when you don't have wounds, because monk damage is actually not very high at base-line, but when your wounds stack up, and the damage balloons, that prone modifier is going to rocket it through your ceiling. Of course, the fine print here is that most of the time, when a ninja has built up enough wounds to be dealing 1k+ damage per form, you're spending most of your time tendoned, so you'll get the prone modifier even if you can block paralysis, but well, if you do block paralysis as much as possible, you'll lower the chances of reaching that stage, anyway. Greentea is the only tea I use, for that reason. Even if paralysis doesn't proc the prone modifier, it hinders and slows your offence down, which is reason enough to try and minimize its effect as much as possible. In a monk-vs-monk fight, the first to hit (and thus gain momentum) is often the winner.

    This ties in to my next point: Don't let him get the first hit. You can try to keep yourself shielded before the fight, but most people start with a raze form anyway (which I'm willing to bet Rasta does too) which will render the shield useless. More useful will be to get the jump on him instead of letting him come to you (and thus land the first hit). It can actually backfire on you, since stealth has waylay, but I'd take the chance if I were you. The advantage you'd gain by getting your momentum before he does is enormous, because of tahtetso hemi. Niricol, senso, double hemi. You can rinse and repeat that, and maybe even lock down people just with that. You'll want to watch out for stance/parry, of course. Getting a beast to poison spit mantakaya (what he did to you) will help you get the leg up on him. Prevent him from building momentum, fall back on that form and spam it whenever you feel he's gaining, and you'll make his life hell. Trust me when I say it is OP'd. Use it.

    That beast mantakaya can be very useful against a ninja as well, because it can be used while prone and tied up, as long as you have bal/eq. Since you're not an acro, what you'll want to do (or rather, what you have to do) is to beast spit mantakaya when you see him throwing out his chain-grapple. Don't do it immediately, do it a second or two after. If you time it well, you may be able to delay his grapple ender form long enough to writhe out. The timing is very very sensitive, given how short it takes to focus body, and more often than not, it won't make a difference, but if it DOES work, you effectively screw him out of 6seconds of his offence.

    Alternatively, just go acrobat and render his grapples useless.

    The most overbearing thing about ninjas is actually the bleed. You'll need to find out what works best for you in terms of anti-bleed. If you can keep yourself alive while applying health instead of sipping every sip balance, then you've pretty much won the wounds battle. No monk can do enough wounding against consistent health application. However, the bleed will inevitably force you to sip, which will let the wounds stack. Know when to run or gust. And yes, fixing that prismatic ability will go a long way. The more breathing space you get for yourself between his bleed attacks, the more difficult for him to keep the bleed pressure. Personally, though, I think you'd be far better served saving your power for serpent than to do that nuisance of a harmony prismatic anyway. Just watch out for green locks if you do burn all your power in that manner.

  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 249 Gifted
    Lerad said:

    Alternatively, just go acrobat and render his grapples useless.

    Agree with all except this part here. He's found a near perfect way to handle Acrobats as a Ninja, now x.x
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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    You can't stop contort.
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  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 249 Gifted
    I said handle it. Not stop it. It's still very, very much possible to get a lot of yanks off versus contort.
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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    ....how? Turn off their system? The only thing that stops it is stun.
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  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 249 Gifted
    I'm guessing you've never fought a Ninjakari. So I'll just direct you to this:
    https://sites.google.com/site/xieltalnara/Ninjakari

    Feel free to look through the skills.
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  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    Lerad said:
    amazing stuff
    Thanks for taking the time to write all that out, that is some really cool info that I'll take into account.

    I'm afraid I don't have the time/money to invest into getting all those skills transed, though. Lowmagic, Resilience, Discipline (faster focus balances right?), etc.

    However, there are so many other tips that I can put into play.

    Some people recommended ForcedSymmetry as a substitute to bloodboil. Thoughts?

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  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    ForcedSymmetry is also a double-edged sword. I rarely use it myself, but it can work wonders in the right situations. The downside of FS is that it can become harder to cure wounds, because any single application can only heal wounds from a single bodypart. But by halving wound output on any one of your opponent's attacks, you can actually have the space to sip instead of apply health sometimes, and as a result, throw a lot of wrenches into your opponent's setups and offence strategy. It can work against warriors very well, or it can give an opponent warrior free afflictions.

    Against a monk, well, it can make the wounds more manageable. One small thing you'll definitely want to note: I don't think m&m tracks FS, so you'll need to do alot more wounds checking to keep it updated on what wounds are where in order to cure.

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    Syrennia said:
    I'm guessing you've never fought a Ninjakari. So I'll just direct you to this:
    https://sites.google.com/site/xieltalnara/Ninjakari

    Feel free to look through the skills.

    Syrennia said:
    I'm guessing you've never fought a Ninjakari. So I'll just direct you to this:
    https://sites.google.com/site/xieltalnara/Ninjakari

    Feel free to look through the skills.

    I have, actually. Thanks! That would be 1700+ on my kill counter. ABs are super helpful. If you can't answer the question, just say you don't know wtf you're talking about. You don't have to a be dillhole about it.
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  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 249 Gifted
    edited June 2014
    The irony in the vast majority of your posts are astounding.
    Celina said:
    ....how? Turn off their system? The only thing that stops it is stun.
    Pretty obvious you don't know nearly as much about Ninjakari as you think you do, if you had to put this implication in there. Here's an idea, actually go and fight Rastamutti, instead of being a forum hero about everything.
    Post edited by Syrennia on
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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    Can you just shut up and answer the question? Jesus, these know it all nobodies. Acting like a simple question is an impossible task. I get you don't like me, but until your zero surpasses me 1700+, how about you just answer the question. It's honestly a really simple concept you are so awesomely correct. JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION .
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  • NaylNayl Member Posts: 78 Capable
    edited June 2014

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    To answer @Celina: Combining grapples with super ninja kicks to certain body parts is one of the first things to learn. After that, watch their stancing, and beast spit mantakaya to lock out their contort long enough.

    EDIT: Back on topic
    Agree with @Lerad on Blood boil and forced symmetry. If they're forcing you to sip with their health damage, forced symmetry is so bad. Also, rebounding, and some practice will see you in good stead.
    Is also the Shintar.
  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 249 Gifted
    edited June 2014
    Ah, the classic "This person disagreed, clearly they hate me" situation.

    If you didn't always have the unnecessary aggressiveness in all your posts that you seem to enjoy flinging around, you'd realise I answered your question already. In fact, you actually answered it yourself. (Which you'd also be able to realise, if you did indeed read through the AB files as claimed)

    Hint: Ninjakari have a very easy to use stun. Not to mention practically a 100% uptime on numbs to multiple limbs at once.
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  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    Well, you are both being rather abrasive towards each other. Something something combat log drama

    If I had to guess, Rasta uses an Akogh kick into a chain grapple to delay contorting long enough for a yank.

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  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    I wish Tahtetso had more than Starkick. Not just for another kick, but for the flavor. :(

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  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Ninjakari has many stuns, but none of them are reliable enough to be used every single form, since the only ones that have a 100% hit rate cost momentum. The ninjakari stun+something combos have been around for a long time, it's nothing new, nor is it anywhere "near perfect". The opportunity cost alone will limit the ninja's ability to capitalize on his yank affs. It used to be devastating when it could be used with burst organs reliably - the additional costs were negligible when your opponent was going to die because of it. There has always been ways to deal with the ninja stun, especially since the stunning kicks are usually limited to certain bodyparts, and are thus more susceptible to proper stance/parry.

    Numbed bodyparts and paralysis don't affect contort.

    Suffice it to say, contort is still the premier ability in pvp against grapples, stun or no stun.

  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,681 Transcendent
    Small correction and a quick question:
    Ninjakari put out a recent report that changed numbs to instead improve poison susceptibility on a given limb, so it no longer stacks balance, thankfully. This was too OP on most physical classes, and there was no way to really keep up with it, so thankfully it got changed.

    Now for the question, I was under the impression that you really can't parry or stance most of what a ninja throws at you, the ninshi-yank combo especially. Most might be using steelgrip right? Just asking. I personally do try to parry and stance them, but find it ineffective, which is why the bleeding on ochai feels so overwhelming. It's practically unstoppable.
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Steelgrip is a modifier, which thus costs ka to put into a form. Personally, I always prioritize speed over steelgrip, because the balance drop from speed is of most importance for landing the ender. Ninshi is cheap enough that they won't have problems doing steelgrip AND speed once they hit 3mo and higher, and akogh will only really be used at 4mo or 5mo, because it costs momentum. The trick to stance grapples is always at low momentum. The standard operating procedure with monks is that fighting them head-on at high momentum is always a bad idea.

    Good to hear about the numbs change. Well, poison susceptibility isn't really a downgrade, considering how easy it is to stack numbs, and that the ninja weakness has always been the lack of reliable poisons. So it doesn't change the importance of getting them cured. But well, I guess at least it's a little less of a middle finger to physical classes.

  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 249 Gifted
    edited June 2014
    Rivius said:
    Small correction and a quick question:
    Ninjakari put out a recent report that changed numbs to instead improve poison susceptibility on a given limb, so it no longer stacks balance, thankfully. This was too OP on most physical classes, and there was no way to really keep up with it, so thankfully it got changed.

    Now for the question, I was under the impression that you really can't parry or stance most of what a ninja throws at you, the ninshi-yank combo especially. Most might be using steelgrip right? Just asking. I personally do try to parry and stance them, but find it ineffective, which is why the bleeding on ochai feels so overwhelming. It's practically unstoppable.
    Just gonna throw it out there... Ochai isn't overwhelming by any means...
    The fact we have three modifiers which stack bleeding, on the other hand, coupled with barbs... >.>

    Can't really add much to what Lerad is saying, pretty much hit the nail on the head. Basically as a Monk gets higher momentum, you're gonna have to switch to chain hindering them until their momentum drops, otherwise you're gonna die plain and simple. Or run, but that'll just reset the fight.
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  • RastamuttiRastamutti Member Posts: 8 Inept
    Honestly, it isn't ochai by itself that is the issue. It's the combination of ochai, gouge, and illgathoru. They all have a random spread of bleeding that can go obscene. Couple that with the add on of bleed from bleed runes it adds up horribly. My next liaison was going to have illgathoru downgraded a bit and hopefully be able to address the range of ochai/gouge. Sadly, we are on hold till we get this new "step" based afflicting or whatever you wish to call it. Makes me a bit sad.


  • MunsiaMunsia The Supreme Goddess Member Posts: 1,374 Transcendent
    I hate the name of monk skills. 
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    Precisely
    Syrennia said:
    Ah, the classic "This person disagreed, clearly they hate me" situation.

    If you didn't always have the unnecessary aggressiveness in all your posts that you seem to enjoy flinging around, you'd realise I answered your question already. In fact, you actually answered it yourself. (Which you'd also be able to realise, if you did indeed read through the AB files as claimed)

    Hint: Ninjakari have a very easy to use stun. Not to mention practically a 100% uptime on numbs to multiple limbs at once.


    This is why I asked you the very specific question, because it was clear you were giving out bad information about "near perfect" counters to contort. Ironically, while you have still yet to provide a direct answer to a direct question, you have managed to cite incorrect information about numbed limbs. Good work. That was me being an informed combatant, PKer, and envoy. I read envoy reports religiously.

     

    While I may not be super familiar with the gibberish words for monk skills, I am aware of their function. I've been doing this for a really long time, and have had my time both as a Ninjakari and against Ninjakari, even notable ones like Sahmiam. I was aware up front that the set up is a two handed attack, meaning the stun must come from a kick, which require specific body parts (like the head) and wound levels to work. Meaning it's predictable, and not "near perfect." As a former contortionist I'm aware of its limitations (which are the same as writhe, incidentally). There really is no "near perfect" counter to contort. Maybe as a Nihilist .

     

    This wasn't a disagreement. It was unecessary, absurd petulance over a non issue in response to a very direct statement, that warranted my attitude in response. If you're going to claim something pk related, refusing to back it up with actual information just makes you sound as if you don't really know what you're talking about. Coincidence, I suppose. Too busy being mock offended by my "unecessary aggressiveness."

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  • SyrenniaSyrennia Member Posts: 249 Gifted
    1) It was a disagreement, given that I said you were wrong. Hint: This means you're disagreeing with someone.

    2) I've given you an answer twice now, it's hardly my fault you're the only one that can't see this. Especially since one was a flat out answer, as opposed to the other obscured one.

    3) Weren't you the one who commented about how combat logs always devolve into shit all the time... Have you ever noticed that you're in every single thread where said situation happens? Shocking.
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