The foolishness of overbuffing kits.

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  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    inquisition, balestone, pfarewell, skysforzando, the ability to meld while flying, resistance to aeon, aerowall thingy, staticfield, trueheal, judge, the passive aeon skill (forget the name). 

    Yeah, the south only has the good skills.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Let's not forget three resurrecting skills (one of which works cross-continent), benediction, Bellow (not used as often as it should be), AncestralCurse (also not used as often as it should be), Moon Beam (which the whole commune gets), Shafts is handy, Waning, Full (Really? 4 power for curing afflictions and prismatic?), and more.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • NeosNeos The Subtle Griefer
    Synkarin said:
    Yeah, the south only has the good skills.
    You said it, not me.
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    Celina said:
    You can't really same the same, can you?
    Zvoltz said:
    "The Panthron"
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    edited November 2014
    Synkarin said:
    inquisition, balestone, pfarewell, skysforzando, the ability to meld while flying, resistance to aeon, aerowall thingy, staticfield, trueheal, judge, the passive aeon skill (forget the name). 

    Yeah, the south only has the good skills.
    Countered by:

    Inquisition:
    SHIELD (Yes, I'm going to put this out there because it's been pointed out to me so many times that "shoulda shielded")

    Balestone:
    Shield, kill the researcher, lust

    Pfarewell: (This is also a 3p power ability so not exactly spammable)
    Earwort

    SkySforzando: (Again a 3p power ability, not spammable)
    Earwort, reject the symphonist.

    Meld while flying:
    Sapling, weave terrain (Can't chop trees or realitycheck in the air), brume tower

    Resistance to aeon:
    This will be a similar skill rather than a counter - wind watch

    Aerowall thingy:
    We talking about aerochem barrier? There's a way around it. Talk with Malarious, he figured it out. I'm not gonna post it on the forums, though.
    EDIT: Actually combining barrier with night bonds will make for a very impenetrable defense, and it leaves only one org/guild with the ability to counter the force wall.

    Static Field:
    Please, that's hardly the most dangerous forced movement on entry skill. It's very susceptible to movement resistance and very easily countered.

    Trueheal:
    Nothing much to say here. I won't argue it's a strong defensive skill. I'll argue that one ally hitting their 'oh crap' button isn't going to have the same result as one enemy being taken out of the fight.

    Judge:
    Uhhh, what, we're arguing about a timed insta? Here's my counter: Web, sleep, gust
    Also equivalent somewhat to: decap, chasm (Not really chasm, being that it is not interrupted by web), soulless, any bard death song.

    Aeonfield:
    Heavy cost skill, easily countered by quicksilver and the ability to have any absolver/toadcurser/TP mage have a much easier time of killing the user.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    edited November 2014
    Now apply that deductive reasoning to the skills you listed and you'll be set :)

    (PS I never said they couldn't be countered, just that they are strong skills, but I mean, using earwort to counter a 'blanknote, pfarewell' chain just doesn't work so you're digging deep to justify yourself here. You've got plenty of strong skills, you just like to complain about ours) 

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Elanorwen said:
    Shuyin said:
    Not to name names, but certain people seem to be transcendent whining too.

    I'm sure that partly explains the disparity.
    Either that or the disparity in skills. Find me a bonds, brume, ecto, twist, sluggishness, passive transfix, vine noose equivalent in any northern org and I'll agree with your statement.



    Bonds: This one is frankly retarded.
    Brume: Move to another room and don't fight in that one. Make them come to you.
    Ecto: Lust/love for roomwide, cleanse is cheap otherwise as Nature Rain. If Nature Rain doesn't cleanse like that, it should.
    Twist: Powerspikes will damage them every time they twist or squeeze, they can only squeeze four total times, nothing aside from the seventh one really that damaging especially with metawake for the second.
    Sluggishness: kill the mob
    Passive Transfix - Keep up faeleaf, kill the mob
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.

    As for vine noose, I'll remind you that Wildewood has tree hug.











    I couldn't even type that with a straight face.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    edited November 2014
    Synkarin said:
    Now apply that deductive reasoning to the skills you listed and you'll be set :)

    (PS I never said they couldn't be countered, just that they are strong skills, but I mean, using earwort to counter a 'blanknote, pfarewell' chain just doesn't work so you're digging deep to justify yourself here. You've got plenty of strong skills, you just like to complain about ours) 
    Pfarewell is not spammable as it costs 3p to use. That said, I'll agree that it's not a weak skill. It's also the one strong offensive skill without an easy counter out of that whole list you posted compared to the list I posted, which also didn't have all the skills I personally see as problematic, just the ones I feel need attention the most. (Personal opinion, others will possibly say differently) My point isn't that there aren't skills that need neutering. Still, if it takes 15 minutes to make a fighter out of a newbie, one able to face and give experienced combatants a run for their money with the only requirement being: illum with a trans skillset, then I see a skill disparity issue. Come on over and accomplish the same feat as a researcher, then we'll talk. Until then, I'll agree to disagree.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    edited November 2014
    I don't know if it's abundantly clear yet, but these Healing/Defensive skillsets don't hold up against the pure offense generated by Gaudi/Glom/Mag combined. While I agree with the statement that even the little pacifists could be fitted with some farcuring systems, the truth is if you're spending power using Moondance Full, or Trueheal, or ClearCapriccio, or Numen or any other number of defensive/healing skills, you're losing the battle. Because the south gets to spend their power on wholly damning skills.

    I can definitely say that I only feel comfortable following Kelly or Vivet into battle. Sometimes Elanorwen. Definitely not myself. That is admittedly a very small number of leaders and organisers. Avurekhos is still working hard on getting better on his own, and is leading some raids. I might join him to see how he's doing someday.

    As for the "mindless droves" and the dropping of credits, I guess that can only be attributed to a more casual playstyle. The south is getting what they're putting into the game back, planted in the fertile soil of their strong skillsets.

    For me, personally, I just don't have the fortitude to be telling people to get their shit together and to get into gear, to train, to write aliases, highlights, triggers, to pay attention. That's just not me. I get rather depressed when I have to list out things for people to avoid.

    - Don't autoreject unless it's an enemy tarot user. But if it's an Illuminatus, don't auto-reject under sluggishness or confusion -- but do do it, or they'll just empress you back. Don't cleanse mucous but do cleanse ectoplasm. I know it's hard to move out of a room with mucous but you'll be locked down otherwise. Always keep up trueblind just in case you're ganked. If a glamourist gives you afterimages? No cure, sorry. Have a shield and learn enough Combat to shieldparry. Have enough Planar to Conglute so you don't have to pray every time you die. You should probably trans your guild skills. Learn enough Discipline to focus mind (nearly trans). Don't play low-int races, you'll be manakill bait. Don't play high-con races, there's usually stupid maluses tacked on to them. Maximize your fire resistance, you're going to need it. Seek out curios to min-max. Buy credits. Try not to get nuked by nightgaze, destruction, or geochem excorable attacks. Keep an eye on your mana. Upkeep earwort. Don't get tagged with sensitivity. Keep track of how many times your shadow has been twisted. Parry and stance perfectly against artied warriors. Don't let wounds get up. Do the org epic quest for your orgbix. Get bubblixes. So on and so forth. (While some of this is pointed at the south, I know that some of it is universal and some of it is being Overhauled).

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    edited November 2014
    Elanorwen said:
    Synkarin said:
    Now apply that deductive reasoning to the skills you listed and you'll be set :)

    (PS I never said they couldn't be countered, just that they are strong skills, but I mean, using earwort to counter a 'blanknote, pfarewell' chain just doesn't work so you're digging deep to justify yourself here. You've got plenty of strong skills, you just like to complain about ours) 
    Pfarewell is not spammable as it costs 3p to use.



    My response. -
    It kinda doesn't have to be. 3 power to black out, stun, and unblockable aeon? By the time you've cured, and possibly cured out of whatever else the Cantor has hit you with (kneel, sensitivity, blindness with possible confusion+epilepsy), the 33% chance that your sip of allheale/herb eaten didn't work because Recessional, the possibility that you can't shield due to a watery room (Eversea), and they've likely already regenned 1-2 power. At the very least, Pfarewell is a support skill that lets others pile on their attacks while your target is held down. At the most, someone's allheale sip was wasted due to recessional, blackout is still on them, deathsong is started, and they don't get earwort up in time or if they do, it's .5 seconds fast enough.

    I'm not complaining, though. It's better than it used to be. We had to hit pfarewell twice, once to strip quicksilver and once to aeon, and then we could deathsong. I got issued and accused of abusing a bug because there was "no way Cantors had passive Aeon". We had so few people wanting to use Starhymn, Vadi's didn't even have a lot of the lines for it.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Elanorwen said:
    Synkarin said:
    Now apply that deductive reasoning to the skills you listed and you'll be set :)

    (PS I never said they couldn't be countered, just that they are strong skills, but I mean, using earwort to counter a 'blanknote, pfarewell' chain just doesn't work so you're digging deep to justify yourself here. You've got plenty of strong skills, you just like to complain about ours) 
    Pfarewell is not spammable as it costs 3p to use. That said, I'll agree that it's not a weak skill. It's also the one strong offensive skill without an easy counter out of that whole list you posted compared to the list I posted, which also didn't have all the skills I personally see as problematic, just the ones I feel need attention the most. (Personal opinion, others will possibly say differently) My point isn't that there aren't skills that need neutering. Still, if it takes 15 minutes to make a fighter out of a newbie, one able to face and give experienced combatants a run for their money with the only requirement being: illum with a trans skillset, then I see a skill disparity issue. Come on over and accomplish the same feat as a researcher, then we'll talk. Until then, I'll agree to disagree.
    Are you really going to argue spammable? Lets look at what you listed: Two of the skills are utility, double-edged room effects that stay in the room (completely not spammable) that also have counters (like don't use magical force moves? use physical ones? boohoo, can't use rad), another two are ents that are on a timer (12 seconds or so), and Twist is a buildup skill that requires 7 twists to get a point that it matters. Ecto and vinenoose are the only really spammable skills you listed and vinenoose just entangles (oh noes, some damage and entangle). Ecto is already being taken out so you're really left with vine noose as a strong spammable skill. 

    Where is this 15min coming from? Illuminati are pretty easy to shutdown if you get over your crazy feelings about them and actually contemplate their kill strategies and counters.  I guess you've never seen @Morbo, @Shedrin or @Prav because they were definitely on par, Shedrin was a genius at strategy and tactics for researchers, especially because he didn't take the easy healer route, he went for astrology.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    I don't know why Geochem excoro attacks are an issue. If you mean roomwide bombs, lust the person. Dominate them to unenemy all. Their passives aren't great, their fumes aren't bad beyond paranoia. Just focus them.

    Hell, their damage isn't even that great without artifacts. I can remember when Aerochem+TP Interference was sudden death for any enemies in the radius, Morbo was doing 10K+ at a time, and my unartied rump was doing 6k +. There's no way Geochem is doing that now.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.

    - Don't autoreject unless it's an enemy tarot user. But if it's an Illuminatus, don't auto-reject under sluggishness or confusion -- but do do it, or they'll just empress you back. Don't cleanse mucous but do cleanse ectoplasm. I know it's hard to move out of a room with mucous but you'll be locked down otherwise. Always keep up trueblind just in case you're ganked. If a glamourist gives you afterimages? No cure, sorry. Have a shield and learn enough Combat to shieldparry. Have enough Planar to Conglute so you don't have to pray every time you die. You should probably trans your guild skills. Learn enough Discipline to focus mind (nearly trans). Don't play low-int races, you'll be manakill bait. Don't play high-con races, there's usually stupid maluses tacked on to them. Maximize your fire resistance, you're going to need it. Seek out curios to min-max. Buy credits. Try not to get nuked by nightgaze, destruction, or geochem excorable attacks. Keep an eye on your mana. Upkeep earwort. Don't get tagged with sensitivity. Keep track of how many times your shadow has been twisted. Parry and stance perfectly against artied warriors. Don't let wounds get up. Do the org epic quest for your orgbix. Get bubblixes. So on and so forth. (While some of this is pointed at the south, I know that some of it is universal and some of it is being Overhauled).
    Aside from minor org mentions, all of that applies to everyone.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Were you guys serious when you said the north had no comparable skills to the OP of the south?

    Sure, they might not be purely offensive skills, but the south definitely has them. Sidd and Shaddus even mentioned some of them.

    I'd just drop that particular argument tbh.

    In fact, I'd even drop the (unnecessary) argument about counters. I can provide a counter to your counter, which you'll then argue about until the flags start flying. We'll go all day with that and I have some sweet black friday shopping to do.

    P.S. Kelly shut me down pretty hard last time I fought her, it was rough!
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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    To kill Shuyin, all you have to do is kill the homunculus and then send Shuyin  a scathing tell about his horrible cooking skills. He starts crying and then his head explodes.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • KaimanahiKaimanahi The One True Queen

    Shaddus said:
    Elanorwen said:
    Shuyin said:
    Not to name names, but certain people seem to be transcendent whining too.

    I'm sure that partly explains the disparity.
    Either that or the disparity in skills. Find me a bonds, brume, ecto, twist, sluggishness, passive transfix, vine noose equivalent in any northern org and I'll agree with your statement.



    Bonds: This one is frankly retarded.
    Brume: Move to another room and don't fight in that one. Make them come to you.
    Ecto: Lust/love for roomwide, cleanse is cheap otherwise as Nature Rain. If Nature Rain doesn't cleanse like that, it should.
    Twist: Powerspikes will damage them every time they twist or squeeze, they can only squeeze four total times, nothing aside from the seventh one really that damaging especially with metawake for the second.
    Sluggishness: kill the mob
    Passive Transfix - Keep up faeleaf, kill the mob
    Is this serious? In the context of group combat...
    You can't just say fight in another room without brume when they're camping somewhere you need to be (domoths, wildnodes, ascension, entrance to village, etc.).
    Room love is just a bad idea for anyone who needs to maintain an enemy list, on the off chance that you so happen to get a lust on the ecto user, before you're screwed. But ectoplasm will die, so, onward.
    Powerspikes is really not hard to cure and further is not a widely available affliction.
    "kill the mob" - if you're doing this in group combat, you've probably already lost. And then why does this not apply to any other guardian ents in the game, let alone two in the same class? Let's not start on guardian champion pets.

    I'm all for seeing the silver lining, but, not seeing it in what you've said here. I agree with Shuyin largely. I'm sure there will always be skills on your side that are going to be considered OP. I support the notion that synergy and making the best of the skills you do have does make up much of the difference, where two people coordinating very well can wipe groups of six who don't have it together.
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  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    The more realistic strategy is to actually beast spit ugliness, fyi.

    It's even easier if you can willingly give hidden disloyalty, like with celestines.
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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    No, @Kelly. Part of mine was tongue in cheek, and mostly teasing Elanorwen because of her answers. I mean, her cure for balestone was "kill the Researcher", "Aeon resistance" isn't even close to "wind a truetime watch", saplings/terrain aren't always available to keep an aero from flying and melding, earwort really isn't protection against pfarewell considering Seasingers have an equi bonus and blanknote is on a fast balance, Shielding against Inquisition in the middle of battle is @#$%tarded, and so on. Come on, now.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    This is in response to @Maligorn because I didn't feel like quoting the whole thing - Researchers offense is potent enough that they can succeed without a tertiary and thus can take Healing to become tanky and an offensive powerhouse. Illuminati require their tert to achieve their kill strats. 

    I think the biggest issue with the defensive/healing skillsets is people learn to fall back on them too much, and use them first without learning how to cure/run away etc. They should be last ditch resorts, instead of things leaned upon. Not having those skills to rely on helps people learn how to survive without it, which then allows people focus more on offense. 

    Also, I wouldn't follow melders into battle, they have to run too often, you need someone who can stand firm for at least a little bit. I only follow melders if it's to get around rubble or stupid things like that. 

     The other big thing is people need to be able to regroup on their own, Leaders can only do so much and are typically first targets so they may move around. It's up to the group to keep together and not get separated. It's just something you need to encourage people to learn. There was a domoth fight where it was @Shuyin, @Thoros, @Silvanus (I think) and one other Mag and me, against probably twice our number and because we regrouped a lot better, we ended up winning pretty easily (though I think lich and empress helped a ton).



    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Shuyin said:


    In fact, I'd even drop the (unnecessary) argument about counters. I can provide a counter to your counter, which you'll then argue about until the flags start flying.


    This is the most important part of this arguement.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • Shuyin said:
     hidden disloyalty
    Celestines disloyalty gives a specific message that everyone and their mother has triggered.

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  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Maligorn said:
    Shuyin said:
     hidden disloyalty
    Celestines disloyalty gives a specific message that everyone and their mother has triggered.
    then it's not hidden, now is it!

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    edited November 2014
    Oh jesus, I'm not going to take my own advice just this once and state that the key here is to not just set your angel to disloyalty, you have to hinder them too.

    Who cares if the enemy has it triggered to assume disloyalty. If he's asthmatic/under aeon/stunned/whatever, there is a good chance that he will be unable to cure the disloyalty in time for the ents to start beating on him.

    I can promise that this happens more often than you'd think and I've even been caught with my pants down having no trueblind up and my own spix wrecked me.

    But anyway, no counters to counters!
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  • That's fine! Just don't misrepresent yourself like that. You and all the other prime combatants of the south have good curing, and aren't going to be caught out by not-so-hidden disloyalty for long. Manna runes, beast spit, Celestines disloyalty. If we timed it to your ents, perhaps something could be made of it. When I was aerochem, that was one of my projects.

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Or masked it behind blackout from pfarewell/tk choke, or spammed it on tk daggers (shruggable but just as much as beast spit, and on a faster balance), or stuck it during aeon.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Shaddus said:
    Or masked it behind blackout from pfarewell/tk choke, or spammed it on tk daggers (shruggable but just as much as beast spit, and on a faster balance), or stuck it during aeon.
    Difference between getting one illum's ents on them and meeting two illum targeting the same enemy together in a fight? Where do I start? Two illum walk in, order entourage kill elanorwen, start throwing out the ropes tarot/ecto, I'm out of the fight until one of them dies. Dual transfix means your faeleaf upkeep is out the door. I don't think I've ever been in a fight with a system WITHOUT trueblind upkeep ever since I first started combat all the way back on my 19 y/o pyromancer. It's part of my standard def up, not that I run without a full def up on a regular basis... most of the time, I'll have truehearing down if I'm bashing something that gives deafness and rebounding down while bashing. Everything else is pretty much always up.

    The point of noose is you can noose+rad, i.e. ranged entangle with rad for insta-delivery of entangled target. Want to get things even more fun? Stick an eoh rune on top of it so when they summer/tipheret, they're off balance longer depending on how their system handles the combo. Wildewood tree hug is not even close to comparable. It breaks a limb, big whoopty-do, that's an instant cure. It is also the one chem/wood attack that -cannot- be done remotely, it requires that the target be in the same room.

    Beast spitting for disloyalty isn't all that great of a deal either when you have no way to hinder them from sipping love and curing. Pretty sure everyone and their mother has triggered Uanor beast spitting to disloyalty at this point. TK dagger with disloyalty is probably even more entertaining of a suggestion considering the fact that it's not masked at all.

    The geochem excoro attacks I'm talking about are the ones from their magcannon or whatever it was called, I'm rather too lazy to look it up right now. I'm certainly not commenting on AoE bombs, but that's neither here nor there. I don't agree with any organization having the ability to dump a nuke like that on someone while combining it with double haegl for 1p (Yes, hyperbeam is comparable damage-wise, except for the damage typing where electricity is much easier to build resistance against than excoro). Anyway, that's an envoy thing, and chances are I'll try and envoy it for the entire setup of chem/woods to be unable to double haegl with their blast. Not sure if that's doable, but anyway.... going off on a bit of a tangent here.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    edited November 2014
    You know beast spitting isn't hidden right? Everything gives an aff line except sensitivity because sensitivity doesn't give poison aff line. No one's triggered Uanor beast spitting because the affline takes care of it.

    Also, if your issue with vinenoose is using it with rad, then the issue really isn't vinenoose, but the fact that you can attach rad to it, which every other chemancer/wood can do anyway. If you're worried about getting radded AND entangled, how bout just shield? You seem to think it's a valid counter for lots of things.

    Also, the Geochem nozzle thing isn't unique, Aquachems can use pure 100% divinus attack, Pyrochems 100% fire, etc.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Synkarin said:
    You know beast spitting isn't hidden right? Everything gives an aff line except sensitivity because sensitivity doesn't give poison aff line. No one's triggered Uanor beast spitting because the affline takes care of it.

    Also, if your issue with vinenoose is using it with rad, then the issue really isn't vinenoose, but the fact that you can attach rad to it, which every other chemancer/wood can do anyway. If you're worried about getting radded AND entangled, how bout just shield? You seem to think it's a valid counter for lots of things.

    Also, the Geochem nozzle thing isn't unique, Aquachems can use pure 100% divinus attack, Pyrochems 100% fire, etc.
    The geochem nozzle thing was about the damage typing being an issue.

    I don't think shield is a valid counter for lots of things. It usually is the case when I point something out that I get a response (Quite often from you) that goes along the lines of "shoulda shielded". Circular arguments now? Really?

    As to the beast spit... interesting. When I tested it on myself, it said: "You are afflicted by an unknown ailment". No idea if that is a chance to happen or something... but we go back to the whole thing of... hey, beast spit disloyalty isn't all that great when you can't stop them from curing it.
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    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • Synkarin said:
    inquisition, balestone, pfarewell, skysforzando, the ability to meld while flying, resistance to aeon, aerowall thingy, staticfield, trueheal, judge, the passive aeon skill (forget the name). 

    Yeah, the south only has the good skills.
    You totally forgot to mention 1mo free double hemiplegy, instant sap, imperial merian int (granted, impressive pre-gnome), warbling trill charisma, and harmony's regeneration abilities, to name a few more.

    Also on shielding for inquisition, doesn't matter if the person has a fast raze/decent chaser. If you stop areawalking (assuming you stayed for infidel instead of fleeing for heretic), you're going to be done. The only downside to chase+spamwinbutton is the mana drain -- which is basically useless because the person they're after is 100% on defense at that point.

    Your best bets there would be to either timeslip if you're a guardian (since it's usually about the same balance time), just keep running and hope they don't catch you, cheese them before they cheese you, or be able to tank the incoming damage spam during the stun (and if you can, be sure to instantly cure once you're out).

    Anyway, what I'm getting here really is, because you don't have more people doing 'x' for you (or they haven't figured out how their skills work), your OP doesn't exist.

    I mean, if you had more active Researchers, active Tahtetso, etc, or specifically ones who knew how to best utilize their abilities, I'm sure a couple of us would let out some complaints; though generally speaking, we try to focus on how to deal with things instead of trying to get a forum cuddle session going on.

    At least I know for one, I always ask around on how other people handle a certain situation if I'm having issues with it.

    Definitely downplaying how group synergy works here too, and some classes in the first place -- e.g being cheesed by a group moondancers who just full and run once you start making progress towards killing them. When we're assessing fights, you'll definitely hear some of us going "don't even bother focusing 'x' until the end, they're just going full/trueheal and run". Your offense really doesn't matter at that point, if you can't even make enough progress to drop your target in a reasonable amount of time. Something as small as that in itself can have a great impact on the flow of group combat.

    I also recall us getting murdered hard during an absolve by Vivet/Aeden/Aerys spamming balestone last year, that was pretty rough -- but I also remember some of the people in here, not naming any names, rage quitting during that same fight despite thing being pretty even. It's not just an issue of perceived imbalances in skills.

    I totally got cheesed the other day by Kelly's pfarewell+anorexia too, can confirm that's it's fairly rough. Focusing more on hindering her made a lot of difference in dealing with it though, considering she doesn't have acro abilities to support her.

    But yeah, strong victim complex going on in here. Kelly didn't always have that cheese, I'm sure she figured it out. Definitely not many Cantors doing that tactic before, but I'd imagine that's going to become the hot thing now. Can agree they sucked hard two weeks ago though, before those skill buffs happened though (oh wait).

    But yeah, of course because of your garbage skills when compared to "ours" (when did these alliances become permanent again), you guys never win anything. In any case, as plenty of people have already mentioned, envoys are going to make a return. Basically no point in having this whinefest atm. Changes aren't even fully implemented yet (RIP ecto), and you'll have an opportunity to speak with your envoy about submissions anyhow.

    Oh, by the way, can also confirm many occasions where I've been wrecked by non-hidden disloyalty; but if you want to know what works best, I'm sure you guys can figure it out.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.

    The geochem excoro attacks I'm talking about are the ones from their magcannon or whatever it was called, I'm rather too lazy to look it up right now. I'm certainly not commenting on AoE bombs, but that's neither here nor there. I don't agree with any organization having the ability to dump a nuke like that on someone while combining it with double haegl for 1p (Yes, hyperbeam is comparable damage-wise, except for the damage typing where electricity is much easier to build resistance against than excoro).


    ---
    So your issue is that they can not only hit you with an attack that you can't have a proof against, but that a class with no mana kills can strip your mana as they hit you? Granted, sipping prios are something I need to work on, but unless there is a mana-kill second person there, I don't see this as any more an issue than an Aquachem doing the very same thing. This seems like a non-issue, unless you want to envoy being able to proof against divinus/excoro.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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