Here's the Thing
If you are raiding to 'get a fight' but there are no defenders around, then raid later. If there are lowbie/midfielder defenders around, then kill them once or twice and take off. If there are decent people around, raid all you want.
This is pretty subjective, it's difficult to say the exact difference between midbie or good, but use your judgment.
Xp loss isn't really the issue, nor should it be, but all that said, I wouldn't mind exchanging increased losses for increased death timer for enemy territory deaths.
Eliminating xp loss altogether is a bad idea in my opinion, because then people will just throw themselves wantonly at you and die repeatedly. Point in case, Lehki and Urazial during their time as VAs.
Seems like some mechanic where you kill high ranking people and the more champions and security members are around, the more points you get, which leads to your spiritual npcs going on fun taunting or getting cool halos might work. I.e. if Glomdoring kills a serenwilde champion in the stag glade when at least 2 other seren security members are about, then crow does this cool mocking shout and gains an aura of shadows which boosts power gains for the commune.
Sure it's easily gamed, but it might be fun. *Cackle*
If there are less defenders that you kill, you get a couple points, and when the points reach 50 you get the cool effect. And each person can only have their death counted once per 4 hours, or some thing of the sort.
If you simply remove the xp loss, going solely with a timer instead, that takes away the biggest essence sink in the game. What else would you spend it on? If the answer is nothing, I just don't see the admin getting on board with the idea at all.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Both we and the admin have put thought into new powers before, with lackluster results. There's several threads where we tried. Somehow I don't see powers coming even close to the same degree of a sink, especially when they are such a finite thing. Increased costs or no.
EDIT: That's not even mentioning we're just looking back at even more power creep, if "more powers" is the solution to keep the essence (i.e. activity) flowing.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
That's the thing; they are not finite. You can trade them out and exchange them as desired, situationally. Doing so costs more essence (the very definition of an essence sink!)
I know that if they go with the no-stat race option, all of those stat-based Demi-powers will be changing and there will be more incentive for them to put a few other things in as well.
In addition, if you are someone (like me) who almost never raids organization enemy territory, this so-called "essence sink" that you are championing is never actually triggered and might as well not even exist as far as the essence-sink argument is concerned.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, as I don't see the admin being too enthused. Also, I feel like pushing the cost up-front would likely reduce the kick-and-runs everybody freaks out about all the time, without really changing too much for actual raids.
How often do you actually switch out your powers? I'm curious.
And yes, you have a good point about people who only defend. I'm not sure there is an elegant solution for that, to cover both defense and raids, except what we already have.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Let's not raise essence cost associated with powers. Between powers, and LOLWUT dying a good chunk of the time, I barely move in XP rankings.
I flex powers around A LOT because of the weight limit. You can only have so many powers as a normal demigod and flexing is a MUST for those of us on the bottom of the power totem pole of life.
Anyways, the best option is yes... Impose a timer, and boot away the defender loss or significantly lower it so it isn't an excuse for folks to why they don't defend.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, as I don't see the admin being too enthused. Also, I feel like pushing the cost up-front would likely reduce the kick-and-runs everybody freaks out about all the time, without really changing too much for actual raids.
How often do you actually switch out your powers? I'm curious.
And yes, you have a good point about people who only defend. I'm not sure there is an elegant solution for that, to cover both defense and raids, except what we already have.
More than I die in enemy territory. Quietmind is an absolutely lovely power. Note that I'm an Ascendant and have more power choices; giving Demis more power choices (without increasing the available weight) simply means that more people will have more reason to switch on a regular basis just like me.
I am simply pointing out that as an essence sink goes, it's a pretty terrible essence sink. It only affects a small fraction of the population, and since essence can't be traded (like gold), having large chunks of it taken away from one player just doesn't help with the distribution or bloat. It's not really in the game to be an essence sink (because of how narrowly focused it is), it's in the game to be a disincentive. As such, changing it from one disincentive to another is just down to whether or not they feel it's enough of a disincentive, but shouldn't really have anything to do with the desire for an essence sink.
I see it as an incentive, as well, so people are forced to be out and grinding that much more, thus raising Lusternia's activity levels that much more. If there is no cost to raiding outside of waiting a little while before you raid again, there's not much/a significantly reduced reason for a big portion of the playerbase to do much at all when not raiding.
I don't disagree that it's terrible, in its current incarnation, and so much of a disincentive that raids just don't really happen anymore. But I really don't see it simply going away altogether.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
I see it as an incentive, as well, so people are forced to be out and grinding that much more, thus raising Lusternia's activity levels that much more. If there is no cost to raiding outside of waiting a little while before you raid again, there's not much/a significantly reduced reason for a big portion of the playerbase to do much at all when not raiding.
I don't disagree that it's terrible, in its current incarnation, and so much of a disincentive that raids just don't really happen anymore. But I really don't see it simply going away altogether.
All that it does in that case is encourage people to have lower amounts of essence so that they don't have to grind as much to recover it (the amount you lose scales between 500,000 and 2,000,000). Grinding back 500,000 isn't really all that much work. 2,000,000 is pretty easy with an astral bash but can otherwise take a while. As far as "encouraging activity" goes, min/maxers can easily exploit the numbers to minimize how much time they have to spend to counteract it, as well.
As long the the replacement disincentive is strong enough that the Administration likes it and thinks it will discourage excessive raiding, I think it has a good shot. I don't think that it is a given that a hefty experience penalty will never change and is here to stay forever regardless. Especially because you're arguing it exists as an essence sink, and it really just doesn't work that way; there are far better (and more effective) actual essence sinks out there.
It's been, for a long time, the only thing I spend essence on anymore, since I got all the powers I want/need. Just as you don't raid that often (so removing the defensive penalty is ineffective), so too do I not really ever buy/switch out powers. No single suggestion will cover all types of players, but death by far covers more than anything else. We all die, once in a while. What else is there that your essence goes to?
Just because there are other ways to lose your essence doesn't mean it's not intended, nor effective at doing so. Again, I personally lose far, far more essence to death than anything else, and I don't even raid all that much. It really does work that way, even if there are "better" options out there.
Also, nobody said xp penalties must stay hefty and "will never change and is here to stay forever, regardless," especially the part about it never changing. It already has changed, to the system we have now. So there's precedent for that, but not for its removal in entirety.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
It's been, for a long time, the only thing I spend essence on anymore, since I got all the powers I want/need. Just as you don't raid that often (so removing the defensive penalty is ineffective), so too do I not really ever buy/switch out powers. No single suggestion will cover all types of players, but death by far covers more than anything else. We all die, once in a while. What else is there that your essence goes to?
Just because there are other ways to lose your essence doesn't mean it's not intended, nor effective at doing so. Again, I personally lose far, far more essence to death than anything else, and I don't even raid all that much. It really does work that way, even if there are "better" options out there.
Also, nobody said xp penalties must stay hefty and "will never change and is here to stay forever, regardless," especially the part about it never changing. It already has changed, to the system we have now. So there's precedent for that, but not for its removal in entirety.
You don't buy / switch out powers because there aren't powers out there that you feel a strong enough desire to buy / switch to use. Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean that you never will should there be such incentive, especially because there already is precedent with others who have posted in this very thread (including myself!) saying that they do in fact do so.
You claim that this is the only essence sink and there are no others; I refuted that with an example. You claim that the Administration would never remove it because it is an essence sink; I refuted that with demonstrations that it is completely ineffective as an essence sink and does not even exist as an essence sink, but instead as a disincentive (and when viewed as a disincentive, is easily swappable with something else if that something else is viewed as being a comparable disincentive).
Basically, I absolutely and totally disagree with the assertion of every post you have made in this thread starting from your assertion that the enemy territory essence loss is required as an essence sink.
1) Raiding experience loss is not designed as an "essence sink". 2) Other things to spend essence on do exist. 3) Other things to spend essence on actually take a great deal more essence. I've spent over 400 million essence on demi / ascendant powers. I bet that you've not lost anywhere near that much raiding. 4) Adding / changing powers to provide more options would just make people more interested in buying and swapping; because it is limited by weight, it's unlikely to add to "power creep" or whatever other concern you decide to raise next. 5) Nobody in the game (with apparently the exception of yourself) is going to miss losing essence should they dare to go raiding. If the penalty is made to be something else instead which provides a decent disincentive, the game will not implode. I mean, I'm from the side of the fence where I feel that over-raiding is a negative, and even I feel that the anti-raiding measures have gotten too strong / too severe. It's time to change the paradigm.
I just went and added it up; I've spent a little over 900,000,000 essence on Demi/Ascendant powers & transcending veneration twice. That's not even counting the swapping of powers out, just raw outlay.
That's 450 deaths in enemy org territory at 2,000,000 each, or 1800 deaths at the lowest amount (500,000 each) that a good min-maxer will be closer to losing.
I just went and added it up; I've spent a little over 900,000,000 essence on Demi/Ascendant powers & transcending veneration twice. That's not even counting the swapping of powers out, just raw outlay.
That's 450 deaths in enemy org territory at 2,000,000 each, or 1800 deaths at the lowest amount (500,000 each) that a good min-maxer will be closer to losing.
That's an awful lot of deaths.
6
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I've uh...maybe had 100,000 total essence since being a demigod. Maybe.
It's been, for a long time, the only thing I spend essence on anymore, since I got all the powers I want/need. Just as you don't raid that often (so removing the defensive penalty is ineffective), so too do I not really ever buy/switch out powers. No single suggestion will cover all types of players, but death by far covers more than anything else. We all die, once in a while. What else is there that your essence goes to?
Just because there are other ways to lose your essence doesn't mean it's not intended, nor effective at doing so. Again, I personally lose far, far more essence to death than anything else, and I don't even raid all that much. It really does work that way, even if there are "better" options out there.
Also, nobody said xp penalties must stay hefty and "will never change and is here to stay forever, regardless," especially the part about it never changing. It already has changed, to the system we have now. So there's precedent for that, but not for its removal in entirety.
You don't buy / switch out powers because there aren't powers out there that you feel a strong enough desire to buy / switch to use. Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean that you never will should there be such incentive, especially because there already is precedent with others who have posted in this very thread (including myself!) saying that they do in fact do so.
You claim that this is the only essence sink and there are no others; I refuted that with an example. You claim that the Administration would never remove it because it is an essence sink; I refuted that with demonstrations that it is completely ineffective as an essence sink and does not even exist as an essence sink, but instead as a disincentive (and when viewed as a disincentive, is easily swappable with something else if that something else is viewed as being a comparable disincentive).
Basically, I absolutely and totally disagree with the assertion of every post you have made in this thread starting from your assertion that the enemy territory essence loss is required as an essence sink.
1) Raiding experience loss is not designed as an "essence sink". 2) Other things to spend essence on do exist. 3) Other things to spend essence on actually take a great deal more essence. I've spent over 400 million essence on demi / ascendant powers. I bet that you've not lost anywhere near that much raiding. 4) Adding / changing powers to provide more options would just make people more interested in buying and swapping; because it is limited by weight, it's unlikely to add to "power creep" or whatever other concern you decide to raise next. 5) Nobody in the game (with apparently the exception of yourself) is going to miss losing essence should they dare to go raiding. If the penalty is made to be something else instead which provides a decent disincentive, the game will not implode. I mean, I'm from the side of the fence where I feel that over-raiding is a negative, and even I feel that the anti-raiding measures have gotten too strong / too severe. It's time to change the paradigm.
I don't claim it's the only essence sink, and there are no others. I simply disagree that it it's not an effective one, just because people don't like it (myself included). Have the admin ever said "the only reason for xp loss is to discourage excessive raiding?". Why then, when we die for reasons completely unrelated to raids do we still lose that essence? And likewise for you, just because you don't currently raid, doesn't mean you never would if there weren't a decent incentive. Something along those lines might be a more effective suggestion for improving our current raid situation.
Also, it doesn't make sense to list a lot of your essence costs that you did, and also argue that something doesn't widely affect people. Simply because you already said you're an outlier. A lot of those aren't widely available, and you're arguing that death doesn't widely affect people (which I think it does).
For my own numbers, I've spent about 80 million on powers, and certainly have died more than 40 times during raids. That's not even counting deaths in neutral, but enemied territory. I've lost much more essence to death. Your way of playing the game isn't the only one, and the admin need to consider all of us when considering changes, not just one subset.
I don't disagree that it needs to change. At all! I think the current system is draconian, as well. Nor do I think that the game would "implode" if changed. I do believe the admin are not going to seriously consider completely removing xp loss on death. They haven't ever done so before, and no amount of hyperbole on our end will change that.
We just need more, and different, suggestions.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
And there was still a penalty (even if not as large) before the cost in enemy territory was increased to curb the raiding. Before excessive raiding was ever an issue in the first place, even.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
It's been, for a long time, the only thing I spend essence on anymore, since I got all the powers I want/need. Just as you don't raid that often (so removing the defensive penalty is ineffective), so too do I not really ever buy/switch out powers. No single suggestion will cover all types of players, but death by far covers more than anything else. We all die, once in a while. What else is there that your essence goes to?
Just because there are other ways to lose your essence doesn't mean it's not intended, nor effective at doing so. Again, I personally lose far, far more essence to death than anything else, and I don't even raid all that much. It really does work that way, even if there are "better" options out there.
Also, nobody said xp penalties must stay hefty and "will never change and is here to stay forever, regardless," especially the part about it never changing. It already has changed, to the system we have now. So there's precedent for that, but not for its removal in entirety.
You don't buy / switch out powers because there aren't powers out there that you feel a strong enough desire to buy / switch to use. Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean that you never will should there be such incentive, especially because there already is precedent with others who have posted in this very thread (including myself!) saying that they do in fact do so.
You claim that this is the only essence sink and there are no others; I refuted that with an example. You claim that the Administration would never remove it because it is an essence sink; I refuted that with demonstrations that it is completely ineffective as an essence sink and does not even exist as an essence sink, but instead as a disincentive (and when viewed as a disincentive, is easily swappable with something else if that something else is viewed as being a comparable disincentive).
Basically, I absolutely and totally disagree with the assertion of every post you have made in this thread starting from your assertion that the enemy territory essence loss is required as an essence sink.
1) Raiding experience loss is not designed as an "essence sink". 2) Other things to spend essence on do exist. 3) Other things to spend essence on actually take a great deal more essence. I've spent over 400 million essence on demi / ascendant powers. I bet that you've not lost anywhere near that much raiding. 4) Adding / changing powers to provide more options would just make people more interested in buying and swapping; because it is limited by weight, it's unlikely to add to "power creep" or whatever other concern you decide to raise next. 5) Nobody in the game (with apparently the exception of yourself) is going to miss losing essence should they dare to go raiding. If the penalty is made to be something else instead which provides a decent disincentive, the game will not implode. I mean, I'm from the side of the fence where I feel that over-raiding is a negative, and even I feel that the anti-raiding measures have gotten too strong / too severe. It's time to change the paradigm.
I don't claim it's the only essence sink, and there are no others. I simply disagree that it it's not an effective one, just because people don't like it (myself included). Have the admin ever said "the only reason for xp loss is to discourage excessive raiding?". Why then, when we die for reasons completely unrelated to raids do we still lose that essence? And likewise for you, just because you don't currently raid, doesn't mean you never would if there weren't a decent incentive. Something along those lines might be a more effective suggestion for improving our current raid situation.
Also, it doesn't make sense to list a lot of your essence costs that you did, and also argue that something doesn't widely affect people. Simply because you already said you're an outlier. A lot of those aren't widely available, and you're arguing that death doesn't widely affect people (which I think it does).
For my own numbers, I've spent about 80 million on powers, and certainly have died more than 40 times during raids. That's not even counting deaths in neutral, but enemied territory. I've lost much more essence to death. Your way of playing the game isn't the only one, and the admin need to consider all of us when considering changes, not just one subset.
I don't disagree that it needs to change. At all! I think the current system is draconian, as well. Nor do I think that the game would "implode" if changed. I do believe the admin are not going to seriously consider completely removing xp loss on death. They haven't ever done so before, and no amount of hyperbole on our end will change that.
We just need more, and different, suggestions.
Yes, they have, because it was instated specifically to punish dying in enemy territory after a long series of raids. That's the entire reason it exists, and you are now twisting it to be something else entirely to justify the need for some sort of essence sink, even though it doesn't actually serve that purpose on the whole and isn't even intended to do so.
And, yet again, you're somehow ignoring that the suggestion is to add more powers in for Demigods so that people like myself are not such an outlier and Demigods have more to spend on. You're claiming that doing so won't help. I think I am a shining example of the fact that it absolutely will.
PS: Deaths in neutral enemied territory no longer has the excess penalty and hasn't for years, because it was acknowledged that the penalty was meant to address raiding, not anything else.
And there was still a penalty (even if not as large) before the cost in enemy territory was increased to curb the raiding. Before excessive raiding was ever an issue in the first place, even.
Wow. You're completely disregarding and ignoring history to try to make your point, here.
Narsrim is pretty much the epitome of "excessive raiding" and this occurred long, long before these changes were made. Though you can look back even before then, even into beta, and you had people raiding all the time for fun (far, far more than even the "excessive raiding" that led to the changes listed here). Raiding has been significantly curbed.
PPS: The Admin have, in fact, discussed (in some depth) the removal of all XP loss on death with us. It's never happened, but that doesn't mean it never will. I just don't understand your insisting that things are the way they are for the reasons you say they are, when they are obviously not.
Nor do I understand why you're insisting that it's not even a part of it at all, when to me it just as obviously is. I've lost xp on every single death, ever. Whether raiding or not. Whether on the higher or lower ends of the penalty, there is always a cost, and always has been, even before it was ever implemented to "curb raiding." That's not twisting anything, there has always been a cost. It was put into the game from the beginning, before there was any Narsrim, so I don't understand what you think that has to do with it. Raiding was healthy, even when we had an xp cost on death. It's completely obvious to me that "curbing raiding" is NOT the only reason for the xp loss to exist (EDIT: it was only a reason to increase it), and it's disingenuous to pretend it is. If we were healthy before the costs were raised, why do we have to remove the cost altogether to return to a more healthy state? Is there no other solution? A compromise would be more likely to be taken seriously, I sincerely believe.
And did I say more powers wouldn't help at all, or rather that it wouldn't be as effective in helping across the board, exactly like you seem to be suggesting deaths would not affect everyone across the board? Neither, alone, is entirely effective, alone. The more, and the more kinds of loss to deal with, the merrier, and the more people all of them together do affect. That's true even when any individual one doesn't affect all individuals equally, as is currently the case, as well as in all systems currently proposed (as you have already pointed out). I don't see how shrinking the net of people affected is supposed to be helpful.
Arguing that the cost is currently excessive is not mutually exclusive with finding a lower cost more palatable (as we have had before, when things were just peachy) . Compromise will help us get more of what we want, I think.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Nor do I understand why you're insisting that it's not even a part of it at all, when to me it just as obviously is. I've lost xp on every single death, ever. Whether raiding or not. Whether on the higher or lower ends of the penalty, there is always a cost, and always has been, even before it was ever implemented to "curb raiding." That's not twisting anything, there has always been a cost. It was put into the game from the beginning, before there was any Narsrim, so I don't understand what you think that has to do with it. Raiding was healthy, even when we had an xp cost on death. It's completely obvious to me that "curbing raiding" is NOT the only reason for the xp loss to exist (EDIT: it was only a reason to increase it), and it's disingenuous to pretend it is. If we were healthy before the costs were raised, why do we have to remove the cost altogether to return to a more healthy state? Is there no other solution? A compromise would be more likely to be taken seriously, I sincerely believe.
And did I say more powers wouldn't help at all, or rather that it wouldn't be as effective in helping across the board, exactly like you seem to be suggesting deaths would not affect everyone across the board? Neither, alone, is entirely effective, alone. The more, and the more kinds of loss to deal with, the merrier, and the more people all of them together do affect. That's true even when any individual one doesn't affect all individuals equally, as is currently the case, as well as in all systems currently proposed (as you have so already pointed out). I don't see how shrinking the net of people affected is supposed to be helpful.
Arguing that the cost is currently excessive is not mutually exclusive with finding a lower cost more palatable (as we have had before, when things were just peachy) . Compromise will help us get more of what we want, I think.
I am insisting that it is not part of it, because it obviously is not.
The administration have stated that the entire point of the extra essence loss is entirely due to deterring raiding. It has nothing to do with being an essence sink. You are the only one who seems to think it does, and you are basing your entire case as to whether or not the administration would even consider changing it based on this assumption-- which you cling to, despite it just not being accurate.
The essence loss, not in enemy territory, is 50k essence. I don't know why you would even think that's an essence sink. It's absolutely nothing, I lose more than that just putting up Omniscience every day :P. You've now changed your entire argument from "enemy territory essence loss = essence sink" to "any death essence loss = essence sink," and that's even more absurd, because the loss might as well not even exist, heh. That would be why there have been discussions in regards to removing it entirely.
Then you try to twist your argument even more to make it somehow equate essence to experience. I don't get this, either. It makes even less sense. An "experience sink" would be a completely different thing than an "essence sink" as we're discussing... and there isn't even any such thing as an experience sink. Again, it has absolutely zilch to do with providing a sink for experience, and everything to do with being a death penalty. The point of this thread is to discuss alternatives to the death penalty that currently exists... and, well, you can't really get much more compromisey when the penalty is 50k essence in pretty much every location excepting organization enemy territory.
The administration have stated that the entire point of the extra essence loss is entirely due to deterring raiding. It has nothing to do with being an essence sink. You are the only one who seems to think it does, and you are basing your entire case as to whether or not the administration would even consider changing it based on this assumption-- which you cling to, despite it just not being accurate.
My emphasis. Extra essence loss, not any essence loss. And to me, essence = experience. How is it not?
Phoenix costs more than the 50k. Praying costs more than the 50k. I haven't paid attention to actual cost is to be rezzed, though it is decidedly less. But it's not really just 50k? The loss, that it disappears from the game, is the very definition of a "sink," is it not? You have to play that much more, just to get it back.
Look at so many of the promotions over the last few years, especially the "log in every day ones". Even when it's trivial to you, the admin just love any excuse for us to play that much more. Even if it's five minutes more a day. Recovering what you've lost, even if you can min/max to reduce and make it trivial, is exactly the kind of thing they're constantly promoting. Why would they let this one go?
EDIT: At any rate, I'm done for the day, and done being devil's advocate. Thanks for discussing stuff with me, though. It really is okay for us to disagree. Thanks for not going personal with it too much.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Comments
Sure it's easily gamed, but it might be fun. *Cackle*
If there are less defenders that you kill, you get a couple points, and when the points reach 50 you get the cool effect. And each person can only have their death counted once per 4 hours, or some thing of the sort.
Flexing demi-powers.
Using demi-powers.
It's not like there are no ways to burn essence out there... and they can always add more demi powers.
The Inner Sea. I take commissions doe.
I know that if they go with the no-stat race option, all of those stat-based Demi-powers will be changing and there will be more incentive for them to put a few other things in as well.
In addition, if you are someone (like me) who almost never raids organization enemy territory, this so-called "essence sink" that you are championing is never actually triggered and might as well not even exist as far as the essence-sink argument is concerned.
I flex powers around A LOT because of the weight limit. You can only have so many powers as a normal demigod and flexing is a MUST for those of us on the bottom of the power totem pole of life.
Anyways, the best option is yes... Impose a timer, and boot away the defender loss or significantly lower it so it isn't an excuse for folks to why they don't defend.
I am simply pointing out that as an essence sink goes, it's a pretty terrible essence sink. It only affects a small fraction of the population, and since essence can't be traded (like gold), having large chunks of it taken away from one player just doesn't help with the distribution or bloat. It's not really in the game to be an essence sink (because of how narrowly focused it is), it's in the game to be a disincentive. As such, changing it from one disincentive to another is just down to whether or not they feel it's enough of a disincentive, but shouldn't really have anything to do with the desire for an essence sink.
As long the the replacement disincentive is strong enough that the Administration likes it and thinks it will discourage excessive raiding, I think it has a good shot. I don't think that it is a given that a hefty experience penalty will never change and is here to stay forever regardless. Especially because you're arguing it exists as an essence sink, and it really just doesn't work that way; there are far better (and more effective) actual essence sinks out there.
You claim that this is the only essence sink and there are no others; I refuted that with an example. You claim that the Administration would never remove it because it is an essence sink; I refuted that with demonstrations that it is completely ineffective as an essence sink and does not even exist as an essence sink, but instead as a disincentive (and when viewed as a disincentive, is easily swappable with something else if that something else is viewed as being a comparable disincentive).
Basically, I absolutely and totally disagree with the assertion of every post you have made in this thread starting from your assertion that the enemy territory essence loss is required as an essence sink.
1) Raiding experience loss is not designed as an "essence sink".
2) Other things to spend essence on do exist.
3) Other things to spend essence on actually take a great deal more essence. I've spent over 400 million essence on demi / ascendant powers. I bet that you've not lost anywhere near that much raiding.
4) Adding / changing powers to provide more options would just make people more interested in buying and swapping; because it is limited by weight, it's unlikely to add to "power creep" or whatever other concern you decide to raise next.
5) Nobody in the game (with apparently the exception of yourself) is going to miss losing essence should they dare to go raiding. If the penalty is made to be something else instead which provides a decent disincentive, the game will not implode. I mean, I'm from the side of the fence where I feel that over-raiding is a negative, and even I feel that the anti-raiding measures have gotten too strong / too severe. It's time to change the paradigm.
That's 450 deaths in enemy org territory at 2,000,000 each, or 1800 deaths at the lowest amount (500,000 each) that a good min-maxer will be closer to losing.
That's an awful lot of deaths.
Yes, they have, because it was instated specifically to punish dying in enemy territory after a long series of raids. That's the entire reason it exists, and you are now twisting it to be something else entirely to justify the need for some sort of essence sink, even though it doesn't actually serve that purpose on the whole and isn't even intended to do so.
And, yet again, you're somehow ignoring that the suggestion is to add more powers in for Demigods so that people like myself are not such an outlier and Demigods have more to spend on. You're claiming that doing so won't help. I think I am a shining example of the fact that it absolutely will.
PS: Deaths in neutral enemied territory no longer has the excess penalty and hasn't for years, because it was acknowledged that the penalty was meant to address raiding, not anything else. Wow. You're completely disregarding and ignoring history to try to make your point, here.
Narsrim is pretty much the epitome of "excessive raiding" and this occurred long, long before these changes were made. Though you can look back even before then, even into beta, and you had people raiding all the time for fun (far, far more than even the "excessive raiding" that led to the changes listed here). Raiding has been significantly curbed.
PPS: The Admin have, in fact, discussed (in some depth) the removal of all XP loss on death with us. It's never happened, but that doesn't mean it never will. I just don't understand your insisting that things are the way they are for the reasons you say they are, when they are obviously not.
The administration have stated that the entire point of the extra essence loss is entirely due to deterring raiding. It has nothing to do with being an essence sink. You are the only one who seems to think it does, and you are basing your entire case as to whether or not the administration would even consider changing it based on this assumption-- which you cling to, despite it just not being accurate.
The essence loss, not in enemy territory, is 50k essence. I don't know why you would even think that's an essence sink. It's absolutely nothing, I lose more than that just putting up Omniscience every day :P. You've now changed your entire argument from "enemy territory essence loss = essence sink" to "any death essence loss = essence sink," and that's even more absurd, because the loss might as well not even exist, heh. That would be why there have been discussions in regards to removing it entirely.
Then you try to twist your argument even more to make it somehow equate essence to experience. I don't get this, either. It makes even less sense. An "experience sink" would be a completely different thing than an "essence sink" as we're discussing... and there isn't even any such thing as an experience sink. Again, it has absolutely zilch to do with providing a sink for experience, and everything to do with being a death penalty. The point of this thread is to discuss alternatives to the death penalty that currently exists... and, well, you can't really get much more compromisey when the penalty is 50k essence in pretty much every location excepting organization enemy territory.
The administration have stated that the entire point of the extra essence loss is entirely due to deterring raiding. It has nothing to do with being an essence sink. You are the only one who seems to think it does, and you are basing your entire case as to whether or not the administration would even consider changing it based on this assumption-- which you cling to, despite it just not being accurate.