Serenwilde is slightly different in that their events seem to be invaders from the Void doing the romping.
I'm comparing these to my own experience with Hallifaxian events. Ours generally involve us actively doing stuff.
I'm also just elaborating on my point earlier about how conflict events can feel very different to the various parties involved, so it's good to consider why people are not enjoying their side of events rather than just telling them to stop playing the game. I think the admins would much prefer people want to log in than log out when they are running their events.
I want to throw an honest question out there: how long has it been since Magnagora was threatened, in an event, by a tangible enemy that was another player org (or hell, at all ever, regardless of org)? I think the most recent conflict was with Lisaera and Drocilla's nightingales, maybe, and Dro won out (though by players working for it; it doesn't bother me as much because Lisaerans had the same opportunity to win afaik). The only other tangible times Magnagora has come into peril in an admin directed event, again as far as I know, is when kephera were banging on their gates on the Undervault release and when angels besieged Mag (and again, resulted in reprisal + a Supernal dead for extra topping). And that's still just by one player org.
I feel like that's what Serenwilde always says about every event ever. It's a bit new seeing it brought up about Celest.
When you say that, it really does feel like the game favours the "evil" orgs more. I wish Magnagora and Glomdoring were backed into corners more than New Celest and Serenwilde seem to be.
Now, the more neutral orgs, Halli and Gaudi really get a break from that BS. Which is just awesome. Maybe it comes with the territory of being more conceptually neutral than the other four. Now, Hallifax does get some grief, especially when it comes to temporal events, but it's often a PvE thing, and is somehow a lot more enjoyable than what Celest seems to be experiencing. Gaudiguch also gets a bit of PvE. We don't have a sea battle or a Faethorn, right? But that's -such- a load off our backs, praise jesus, praise isune, praise all. We do, actually, in the form of the mirror quest and the Hand quest, but even then there's a long-standing gentleman's agreement to not mess with each other overmuch. Because we actually want to enjoy the game, I guess. Hell, even an event that made Gaudiguch culpable for something "bad" made forests their adversary instead of Hallifax, since it was technically under Old Celest's orders (eaf'Eramich). Idk. Don't change the model, please.
EDIT: Again, this is pretty much an outsider looking in, when it comes down to it. It feels pretty lame to say "hey, Glomdoring and Magnagora, YOU MUST SUFFER!" when I very much don't want that dynamic for Halli and Gaudi. So, w/e, take with grain of salt. Lots of salt.
Not sure where you're going with the Glomdoring thing, Glomdoring gets to deal with the Nature vs. Cities aspect which pretty much always has Nature on the defending side.
The main exception was the Binding of Raziela; Hai'Gloh was another big moment, but that was a reactive player-driven thing to the cities trying to unbind Raziela (it only happened because Serenwilde and Glomdoring kept RPing for some way to fight back).
Serenwilde's issue is mostly in that because they're "True Nature" they can't really have any victories. They are always fighting for the status quo, and any change means that they failed. Celest has other ways of "winning" an event, but Serenwilde's only real victory condition is "things stay the same," which doesn't really feel like a win.
Glomdoring's got the same issue whenever it's a Nature-driven event, but we do at least have some other win conditions that let us feel like there can be progress now and then, too.
And seriously, lol@Crow in events (we finally had one that he wasn't a useless casualty, and even then the admin running the event totally trolled us by having us think he was running away in fear before he came back and did something positive).
Basically, everyone's got some Event Gripes that they can point at for their organization, and I suspect there's an awful lot of Grass Is Greener syndrome.
Man, I pointed out that same thing about Serenwilde and got told by Someone that I didn't know what I was talking about re: the fight for True Nature. Meh.
Man, I pointed out that same thing about Serenwilde and got told by Someone that I didn't know what I was talking about re: the fight for True Nature. Meh.
It's not one that I entirely agree with, but it does have some merit for discussion purposes; Serenwilde's always had a big issue with a lack of a... positive focus, shall we say? A central unifying force that they can work to nourish. It's a more nebulous Nature thing, which Glomdoring also lays claim to (greatly diluting their ownership).
Not sure where you're going with the Glomdoring thing, Glomdoring gets to deal with the Nature vs. Cities aspect which pretty much always has Nature on the defending side.
See, I don't see it that way. Glomdoring didn't have a road burned through it. Glomdoring seems a ton more resilient to cities than Serenwilde is, partially because not only does it champion Nature, it also has a very powerful aspect to it: wyrd. In my experience with fantasy (a lot), wyrd seems to be a pretty darn unique hook. So it's very alluring to a player and offers something very attractive to stand behind, as opposed to...another forest commune.
Now, obviously Gloriana was pretty shunted to the side by cities, but not Glomdoring near as much as Serenwilde as far as I can tell.
Celest is trying to keep things stable and recovering... while Magnagora is going down the path of Old Celest, seeking for power and damn the consequences.
I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
I feel like that's what Serenwilde always says about every event ever. It's a bit new seeing it brought up about Celest.
When you say that, it really does feel like the game favours the "evil" orgs more. I wish Magnagora and Glomdoring were backed into corners more than New Celest and Serenwilde seem to be.
Now, the more neutral orgs, Halli and Gaudi really get a break from that BS. Which is just awesome. Maybe it comes with the territory of being more conceptually neutral than the other four. Now, Hallifax does get some grief, especially when it comes to temporal events, but it's often a PvE thing, and is somehow a lot more enjoyable than what Celest seems to be experiencing. Gaudiguch also gets a bit of PvE. We don't have a sea battle or a Faethorn, right? But that's -such- a load off our backs, praise jesus, praise isune, praise all. We do, actually, in the form of the mirror quest and the Hand quest, but even then there's a long-standing gentleman's agreement to not mess with each other overmuch. Because we actually want to enjoy the game, I guess. Hell, even an event that made Gaudiguch culpable for something "bad" made forests their adversary instead of Hallifax, since it was technically under Old Celest's orders (eaf'Eramich). Idk. Don't change the model, please.
EDIT: Again, this is pretty much an outsider looking in, when it comes down to it. It feels pretty lame to say "hey, Glomdoring and Magnagora, YOU MUST SUFFER!" when I very much don't want that dynamic for Halliand Gaudi. So, w/e, take with grain of salt. Lots of salt.
Sounds like just a bit of bias on your side of the view. The last event in Glomdoring had supermobs and stacks of twenty astrallevel+ beasts running around murdering everything and everyone and threats that everyone was going to get ate.
Like gloms were lighting up the deathsights for ages. Pretty backed into the corner there.
Celest is trying to keep things stable and recovering... while Magnagora is going down the path of Old Celest, seeking for power and damn the consequences.
The forum politics is real here, folks.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
...the only thing I really have to say is... I don't know who does and doesn't have it, but I do think each org having some kind of "change we can believe in" type goal is a good idea.
I feel like that's what Serenwilde always says about every event ever. It's a bit new seeing it brought up about Celest.
When you say that, it really does feel like the game favours the "evil" orgs more. I wish Magnagora and Glomdoring were backed into corners more than New Celest and Serenwilde seem to be.
Now, the more neutral orgs, Halli and Gaudi really get a break from that BS. Which is just awesome. Maybe it comes with the territory of being more conceptually neutral than the other four. Now, Hallifax does get some grief, especially when it comes to temporal events, but it's often a PvE thing, and is somehow a lot more enjoyable than what Celest seems to be experiencing. Gaudiguch also gets a bit of PvE. We don't have a sea battle or a Faethorn, right? But that's -such- a load off our backs, praise jesus, praise isune, praise all. We do, actually, in the form of the mirror quest and the Hand quest, but even then there's a long-standing gentleman's agreement to not mess with each other overmuch. Because we actually want to enjoy the game, I guess. Hell, even an event that made Gaudiguch culpable for something "bad" made forests their adversary instead of Hallifax, since it was technically under Old Celest's orders (eaf'Eramich). Idk. Don't change the model, please.
EDIT: Again, this is pretty much an outsider looking in, when it comes down to it. It feels pretty lame to say "hey, Glomdoring and Magnagora, YOU MUST SUFFER!" when I very much don't want that dynamic for Halliand Gaudi. So, w/e, take with grain of salt. Lots of salt.
Sounds like just a bit of bias on your side of the view. The last event in Glomdoring had supermobs and stacks of twenty astrallevel+ beasts running around murdering everything and everyone and threats that everyone was going to get ate.
Like gloms were lighting up the deathsights for ages. Pretty backed into the corner there.
One thing to be aware of is that they are discussing player vs. player events, not Admin events. Glom's and Seren's events were the most murderous from what I saw, but that was entirely story-line for each org, it didn't require the involvement of other orgs to drive the story. Not quite the same thing.
Not sure where you're going with the Glomdoring thing, Glomdoring gets to deal with the Nature vs. Cities aspect which pretty much always has Nature on the defending side.
See, I don't see it that way. Glomdoring didn't have a road burned through it. Glomdoring seems a ton more resilient to cities than Serenwilde is, partially because not only does it champion Nature, it also has a very powerful aspect to it: wyrd. In my experience with fantasy (a lot), wyrd seems to be a pretty darn unique hook. So it's very alluring to a player and offers something very attractive to stand behind, as opposed to...another forest commune.
Now, obviously Gloriana was pretty shunted to the side by cities, but not Glomdoring near as much as Serenwilde as far as I can tell.
I consider these to be two different plot-hooks (ignoring the road-thing because that is old history pre-players-even-being-involved-- it has some place in the overall discussion but isn't quite as important as the actual events being run imo).
Plot hook 1) Cities v. Nature. This almost always involves the Fae in some way, and in this regard, Seren and Glom are in the same boat. The Fae are not very aggressive as a whole (with notable exceptions, but most of those exceptions drive into the Wyrden hook at this point anyways and Seren doesn't care about them). It almost always comes down to us trying to preserve the status quo, because change is generally bad for us, and is incredibly hard to "undo" (if it can ever even be done).
Plot hook 2) Wyrd. As I said earlier, I agree that this does give Glom something we can hook onto for victories / win conditions, it's 100% a positive force for us being able to build an identity around. And this is the part that Serenwilde is missing, they don't really have a second plot hook, it's all tied onto the first one (which they share with the people who are supposed to be their foes, because of our second plot hook). This leaves them hanging.
While they can build off of hook 1, and have forever, it's just going to be harder than everyone else because their rallying cry is undermined by sharing a good chunk of it with us.
Man, I pointed out that same thing about Serenwilde and got told by Someone that I didn't know what I was talking about re: the fight for True Nature. Meh.
It's not one that I entirely agree with, but it does have some merit for discussion purposes; Serenwilde's always had a big issue with a lack of a... positive focus, shall we say? A central unifying force that they can work to nourish. It's a more nebulous Nature thing, which Glomdoring also lays claim to (greatly diluting their ownership).
I made this exact argument IC while I was in Serenwilde. Serenwilde's default nature is fundamentally reactionary and conservative - take the world to the way it was, or keep it how it is. I had hoped the guild changes - particularly the Sowers, which is why I went there - would help with exactly what you're talking about. Maybe they are, and maybe they will, but I think your point here is absolutely right. When you have 'Keep things Good, Keep things Natural, and Keep things Orderly" on one side, and "Change things, Break things, and (insert Glom approved synonym for corrupt) things," it makes sense to expect the 'instigators' to be from, and be drawn to, certain orgs.
Man, I pointed out that same thing about Serenwilde and got told by Someone that I didn't know what I was talking about re: the fight for True Nature. Meh.
It's not one that I entirely agree with, but it does have some merit for discussion purposes; Serenwilde's always had a big issue with a lack of a... positive focus, shall we say? A central unifying force that they can work to nourish. It's a more nebulous Nature thing, which Glomdoring also lays claim to (greatly diluting their ownership).
I made this exact argument IC while I was in Serenwilde. Serenwilde's default nature is fundamentally reactionary and conservative - take the world to the way it was, or keep it how it is. I had hoped the guild changes - particularly the Sowers, which is why I went there - would help with exactly what you're talking about. Maybe they are, and maybe they will, but I think your point here is absolutely right. When you have 'Keep things Good, Keep things Natural, and Keep things Orderly" on one side, and "Change things, Break things, and (insert Glom approved synonym for corrupt) things," it makes sense to expect the 'instigators' to be from, and be drawn to, certain orgs.
This was actually brought up pretty consistently throughout the process of the faction overhaul and has been raised for years at this point. It's one of the reasons that the "Winter Court" concept was embraced prior to the overhaul for example.
The reactive nature is part of why the Sowers and Listeners have reclamation hooks, they're just focused differently, Creating something better vs restoring what was there. Ideally, we'll see events that play to these hooks, afaik the Sowers guild hall has already done so.
It's also a reason why Delosidir was the best villain for our release event because he wasn't yet another external attack that took something away from the forest.
That said, we do still lack the unique rallying cry, we might be able to build something around Moon and Hart now they are divorced from the guilds but they're also so tied to the physical forest that it still doesn't quite work the same way.
Obviously we should just do something that results in two Maeves, one for each forest, which is the only one they recognise as legit and can network other fae into :P
Obviously we should just do something that results in two Maeves, one for each forest, which is the only one they recognise as legit and can network other fae into :P
That would be rough, we'd end up with a lot of psychotic fae.
Obviously we should just do something that results in two Maeves, one for each forest, which is the only one they recognise as legit and can network other fae into :P
That would be rough, we'd end up with a lot of psychotic fae.
And players having maeve trauma But at least it would be hilarious to watch.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Each of the three new Serenwilde guilds has something going for it that propels it more into the future. The Sowers have it the most explicitly, with the prophecy of the Last Seed and an actual impetus to change things. The Listeners have the will of the ancestors, which can and should push them to look forward. And the Wodewose concept of the Verdant Land, unlike the old Serenwilde concept of pure Nature, isn't opposed to change--the Wodewoses don't act/fight to keep things the same.
So yes, hopefully, Serenwilde can start using these concepts to move away from its old habits.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Obviously we should just do something that results in two Maeves, one for each forest, which is the only one they recognise as legit and can network other fae into :P
That would be rough, we'd end up with a lot of psychotic fae.
And players having maeve trauma But at least it would be hilarious to watch.
*shrug* If we actually went down that road there'd likely be an explanation that'd make it work, like the conflicting sides tearing her apart and becoming damaging to the Fae which requires the forests to follow Aife's plan.
Which could then transition into some form of war over "right" the vision/version of nature. Which isn't a major change from right now, just the removal of the problematic connection to Maeve and the cognitive dissonance she represents/induces.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I want to throw an honest question out there: how long has it been since Magnagora was threatened, in an event, by a tangible enemy that was another player org (or hell, at all ever, regardless of org)? I think the most recent conflict was with Lisaera and Drocilla's nightingales, maybe, and Dro won out (though by players working for it; it doesn't bother me as much because Lisaerans had the same opportunity to win afaik). The only other tangible times Magnagora has come into peril in an admin directed event, again as far as I know, is when kephera were banging on their gates on the Undervault release and when angels besieged Mag (and again, resulted in reprisal + a Supernal dead for extra topping). And that's still just by one player org.
Once upon a time Mag had an event where an immortal wizard running around the city for hours, indiscriminately killing Mags. He had memory loss and was trying to remember a word, and finally we figured out it was "fireball." So we said "fireball!" and then he blew us all up with, unsurprisingly, a fireball. So then we learned to not say the word, so he just started blowing us up anyways. Finally he left. End event.
Mag had a long string of questionable experiences because of a certain very pro Celest god decided they needed to happen.
I feel like that's what Serenwilde always says about every event ever. It's a bit new seeing it brought up about Celest.
When you say that, it really does feel like the game favours the "evil" orgs more. I wish Magnagora and Glomdoring were backed into corners more than New Celest and Serenwilde seem to be.
One of the largest events ever centered around an insane god from another time/dimension/whatever declaring absolute sovereignty over Glomdoring, and kicking the Glom Pantheon's collective asses INCLUDING the Goddess who created the Wyrd and also declares absolute dominion over the forest. It involved dropping a space wheel in the middle of the forest, all of our allies bitching up a storm because we didn't let them play with it, filling the forest with insane numbers of dominators (I think that's what they were called) and lots and lots of death. What can you do you do with a homicidal insane god that kicked the mother of the Wyrd's ass? NOT A LOT.
Then, of course, the 835 ways Crow can embarrass us in an event, and we had to like him anways. Like Maeve, only less whiny and dumber.
THEN there's the infamous tainting of the Maeve. The event that defined being "backed into corners."
The thing with events is 1) they don't happen that frequently so trends are often wildly exaggerated, and 2) you view them only through the lense of your experience. Events aren't mandatory. I made it to TA and a decade of play with maybe like 2 event mentions (tainting of Maeve and Xynthin...I forget if I got one for murdering Halli CL for not handing over some quest item) because I don't enjoy most events! And if it wasn't fun, I didn't play, and that's okay.
Event effects are rarely permanent, much less consequential enough to have any long term effect on your experience.
Again, those are all examples of some random, other party causing all of the trouble. It wasn't Celest who sent an inquisitor to blow Magnagora up. It wasn't Serenwilde who made the insane god to rule over Glomdoring.
It's about perception. When the perception is that your sworn enemy can just destroy you because of event-driven hand-holding, it's no wonder people feel like they've been treated unfairly. It's worth talking about and not just sweeping under the rug and telling people to just harden up or log out. I think there is plenty of room to have great events without necessarily dicking another org over. Some of my favourite events in Hallifax have been the smaller, Hallifax-centric ones that didn't involve anyone else (not that wider involvement needs to include conflict with another org, either).
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Again, those are all examples of some random, other party causing all of the trouble.
THEN there's the infamous tainting of the Maeve. The event that defined being "backed into corners."
The Tainting of the Maeve was specifically Magnagora enslaving Maeve.
You can account for optics, but you can't account for perception.
(Really I find drawing lines between admin allowing orgs to kick your ass and admin allowing random mobs/gods/whatever to kick your ass to be splitting hairs to the finest possible degree.)
Feeling decidedly 'meh' about this month's promotion. The wonder item is nice, but I'm not keen on forking out $500 for the crystals required and I don't have enough credits to buy crystals from other people. Also until the present percentages are tweaked and goop is either adjusted or removed, I'm not investing in promotions that have presents, especially given that the 'standard' tier presents have a 63% chance of giving 50-100 goop.
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Again, those are all examples of some random, other party causing all of the trouble.
THEN there's the infamous tainting of the Maeve. The event that defined being "backed into corners."
The Tainting of the Maeve was specifically Magnagora enslaving Maeve.
You can account for optics, but you can't account for perception.
(Really I find drawing lines between admin allowing orgs to kick your ass and admin allowing random mobs/gods/whatever to kick your ass to be splitting hairs to the finest possible degree.)
Serenwilde has seen events where we had to beg Glomdoring to save us, even had repercussions when we went against the agreement we were forced into. We've also had events where we've deceived by Glomdoring, multiple times from memory. Including the one where Hoaracle lost his hand.
We also get the Maeve stuff and wasn't the event you mentioned earlier the result of Xynthin being tricky and ushering in an age of Wyrden supremacy that unfortunately broke time?
As you also mentioned, events don't happen that often so yeah if your org is consistently portrayed in a certain way it's going to shape perceptions. May or may not be related but I've had newbies wanting to go to mag because of it's perception of power.
And yeah, you don't have to participate in events, but regardless the event happened, the continued the story of your organisation/guild/family/order/whatever.
Like, oh man, if Serenwilde could have collectively just not logged when we started seeing people hung by their entrails to avoid having to make that deal with Glomdoring, that'd be great.
Actually, you have newbies that want to go to Mag because people in Mag actually pay attention to newbies and interact with them. Drag them places. Rp with them. Teach them history.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Actually, you have newbies that want to go to Mag because people in Mag actually pay attention to newbies and interact with them. Drag them places. Rp with them. Teach them history.
I can only react to what they're telling me and their comments indicated that it generally floated around the goal of being powerful/invincible.
Comments
Also having to attack an enemy city with twently guards, defenders and a statue was kind of entertaining.
I'm comparing these to my own experience with Hallifaxian events. Ours generally involve us actively doing stuff.
I'm also just elaborating on my point earlier about how conflict events can feel very different to the various parties involved, so it's good to consider why people are not enjoying their side of events rather than just telling them to stop playing the game. I think the admins would much prefer people want to log in than log out when they are running their events.
Now, the more neutral orgs, Halli and Gaudi really get a break from that BS. Which is just awesome. Maybe it comes with the territory of being more conceptually neutral than the other four. Now, Hallifax does get some grief, especially when it comes to temporal events, but it's often a PvE thing, and is somehow a lot more enjoyable than what Celest seems to be experiencing. Gaudiguch also gets a bit of PvE. We don't have a sea battle or a Faethorn, right? But that's -such- a load off our backs, praise jesus, praise isune, praise all. We do, actually, in the form of the mirror quest and the Hand quest, but even then there's a long-standing gentleman's agreement to not mess with each other overmuch. Because we actually want to enjoy the game, I guess. Hell, even an event that made Gaudiguch culpable for something "bad" made forests their adversary instead of Hallifax, since it was technically under Old Celest's orders (eaf'Eramich). Idk. Don't change the model, please.
EDIT: Again, this is pretty much an outsider looking in, when it comes down to it. It feels pretty lame to say "hey, Glomdoring and Magnagora, YOU MUST SUFFER!" when I very much don't want that dynamic for Halli and Gaudi. So, w/e, take with grain of salt. Lots of salt.
The main exception was the Binding of Raziela; Hai'Gloh was another big moment, but that was a reactive player-driven thing to the cities trying to unbind Raziela (it only happened because Serenwilde and Glomdoring kept RPing for some way to fight back).
Serenwilde's issue is mostly in that because they're "True Nature" they can't really have any victories. They are always fighting for the status quo, and any change means that they failed. Celest has other ways of "winning" an event, but Serenwilde's only real victory condition is "things stay the same," which doesn't really feel like a win.
Glomdoring's got the same issue whenever it's a Nature-driven event, but we do at least have some other win conditions that let us feel like there can be progress now and then, too.
And seriously, lol@Crow in events (we finally had one that he wasn't a useless casualty, and even then the admin running the event totally trolled us by having us think he was running away in fear before he came back and did something positive).
Basically, everyone's got some Event Gripes that they can point at for their organization, and I suspect there's an awful lot of Grass Is Greener syndrome.
Here's a thread I wrote years ago re: events.
http://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/134/events-the-good-and-the-not-so-good/p1
EDIT: And can't argue about Crow's paper skin.
Now, obviously Gloriana was pretty shunted to the side by cities, but not Glomdoring near as much as Serenwilde as far as I can tell.
Sounds like just a bit of bias on your side of the view. The last event in Glomdoring had supermobs and stacks of twenty astrallevel+ beasts running around murdering everything and everyone and threats that everyone was going to get ate.
Like gloms were lighting up the deathsights for ages. Pretty backed into the corner there.
The forum politics is real here, folks.
I consider these to be two different plot-hooks (ignoring the road-thing because that is old history pre-players-even-being-involved-- it has some place in the overall discussion but isn't quite as important as the actual events being run imo).
Plot hook 1) Cities v. Nature. This almost always involves the Fae in some way, and in this regard, Seren and Glom are in the same boat. The Fae are not very aggressive as a whole (with notable exceptions, but most of those exceptions drive into the Wyrden hook at this point anyways and Seren doesn't care about them). It almost always comes down to us trying to preserve the status quo, because change is generally bad for us, and is incredibly hard to "undo" (if it can ever even be done).
Plot hook 2) Wyrd. As I said earlier, I agree that this does give Glom something we can hook onto for victories / win conditions, it's 100% a positive force for us being able to build an identity around. And this is the part that Serenwilde is missing, they don't really have a second plot hook, it's all tied onto the first one (which they share with the people who are supposed to be their foes, because of our second plot hook). This leaves them hanging.
While they can build off of hook 1, and have forever, it's just going to be harder than everyone else because their rallying cry is undermined by sharing a good chunk of it with us.
The reactive nature is part of why the Sowers and Listeners have reclamation hooks, they're just focused differently, Creating something better vs restoring what was there.
Ideally, we'll see events that play to these hooks, afaik the Sowers guild hall has already done so.
It's also a reason why Delosidir was the best villain for our release event because he wasn't yet another external attack that took something away from the forest.
That said, we do still lack the unique rallying cry, we might be able to build something around Moon and Hart now they are divorced from the guilds but they're also so tied to the physical forest that it still doesn't quite work the same way.
Obviously we should just do something that results in two Maeves, one for each forest, which is the only one they recognise as legit and can network other fae into :P
So yes, hopefully, Serenwilde can start using these concepts to move away from its old habits.
Which could then transition into some form of war over "right" the vision/version of nature. Which isn't a major change from right now, just the removal of the problematic connection to Maeve and the cognitive dissonance she represents/induces.
Mag had a long string of questionable experiences because of a certain very pro Celest god decided they needed to happen.
One of the largest events ever centered around an insane god from another time/dimension/whatever declaring absolute sovereignty over Glomdoring, and kicking the Glom Pantheon's collective asses INCLUDING the Goddess who created the Wyrd and also declares absolute dominion over the forest. It involved dropping a space wheel in the middle of the forest, all of our allies bitching up a storm because we didn't let them play with it, filling the forest with insane numbers of dominators (I think that's what they were called) and lots and lots of death. What can you do you do with a homicidal insane god that kicked the mother of the Wyrd's ass? NOT A LOT.
Then, of course, the 835 ways Crow can embarrass us in an event, and we had to like him anways. Like Maeve, only less whiny and dumber.
THEN there's the infamous tainting of the Maeve. The event that defined being "backed into corners."
The thing with events is 1) they don't happen that frequently so trends are often wildly exaggerated, and 2) you view them only through the lense of your experience. Events aren't mandatory. I made it to TA and a decade of play with maybe like 2 event mentions (tainting of Maeve and Xynthin...I forget if I got one for murdering Halli CL for not handing over some quest item) because I don't enjoy most events! And if it wasn't fun, I didn't play, and that's okay.
Event effects are rarely permanent, much less consequential enough to have any long term effect on your experience.
#LEARNTOLOGOFF
It's about perception. When the perception is that your sworn enemy can just destroy you because of event-driven hand-holding, it's no wonder people feel like they've been treated unfairly. It's worth talking about and not just sweeping under the rug and telling people to just harden up or log out. I think there is plenty of room to have great events without necessarily dicking another org over. Some of my favourite events in Hallifax have been the smaller, Hallifax-centric ones that didn't involve anyone else (not that wider involvement needs to include conflict with another org, either).
The Tainting of the Maeve was specifically Magnagora enslaving Maeve.
You can account for optics, but you can't account for perception.
(Really I find drawing lines between admin allowing orgs to kick your ass and admin allowing random mobs/gods/whatever to kick your ass to be splitting hairs to the finest possible degree.)
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots.
Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
Guessing the number of presents was one of said things changed.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Serenwilde has seen events where we had to beg Glomdoring to save us, even had repercussions when we went against the agreement we were forced into.
We've also had events where we've deceived by Glomdoring, multiple times from memory. Including the one where Hoaracle lost his hand.
We also get the Maeve stuff and wasn't the event you mentioned earlier the result of Xynthin being tricky and ushering in an age of Wyrden supremacy that unfortunately broke time?
As you also mentioned, events don't happen that often so yeah if your org is consistently portrayed in a certain way it's going to shape perceptions. May or may not be related but I've had newbies wanting to go to mag because of it's perception of power.
And yeah, you don't have to participate in events, but regardless the event happened, the continued the story of your organisation/guild/family/order/whatever.
Like, oh man, if Serenwilde could have collectively just not logged when we started seeing people hung by their entrails to avoid having to make that deal with Glomdoring, that'd be great.