After the day restarted, we were left curious as where to go next, it seemed natural for the debate to put pressure back on Lavinya. Being tired of the endless circles, Lavinya motioned to a member of the Second Circle as they walked up, chopped Sylandra's head off and returned to their position.
Sylandra was Hoarcle the Forest Dreamer
A Triumvirate was formed to investigate the Twelve Traitors. A Triumvirate always consisted of three members of the Third Circle, specially chosen for their wisdom to be arbiters for crimes amongst the Elders. The Third Circle had two branches, the Hamadhi who were the healers and caretakers of the half-formeds, and the deep mediators, who were rarely seen but rather spent their time contemplating the mysteries of the multiverse. It was generally from this latter group that individuals were chosen to be on a Triumvirate. There were only five other times in our history that a Triumvirate was formed. It took several days for the Third Circle to choose the Triumvirate for this trial.
First was Hoaracle the Forest Dreamer. Before the war, he spent his days wandering from forest to forest, taking root in each for centuries, meditating upon the life within. He looked ancient with a mossy green beard and brown skin creased and weathered like old bark. It was said that during his deep meditations, you couldn't be able to discern him from the trees around.
Elders: You win with the town when all Soulless are defeated.
The Dreamer (RECLUSE): Every odd night, you will disappear into the forests and dream of life. You will be unable to be targetted, but you will have watched any that visited you. (But no Klaus this time!)
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!
Vote Count, Day Six:
Lavinya - Phoebus, Selenity, Yomoigu (3)
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
@Silvanus You left Sylandra on the vote count! I feel like this would be the perfect opportunity to make some kind of stump joke, but nothing great is jumping out at me.
Ok but so like. I know I mentioned it briefly earlier, I'm still a bit concerned by the fact that Ushaara is basically Thax now. Mushing someone's essence back together after they'd gotten chopped to pieces was exactly what happened to Thax, and it was only possible for Thax by using the Elixir during the procedure.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Okay, so. I'm sticking by my early opinion that lynching the Soulless is our top priority so just for the moment I'm gonna ignore the possibility that Lavinya's a Traitor just trying to get her day-kill off before she dies(though honestly I'm leaning towards her being town that panicked and made a bad call).
After this whole display I feel pretty safe in saying that Lavinya is not a Soulless. Not sure We know this wasn't just a death resist since the votes really did reset without the day ending, and we've just seen her pull off two day powers in a row. Also as I said before, if we believe Yomoigu and Othero, than we know a Soulless that wasn't Portius used a strongman power to kill Shaddus. And every way I think about it I can't see her being one, because it would mean she has pretty big arsenal of powers that just does not line up with what we saw from Kethuru in any way. Even if one Soulless dieing empowered the others, Strongman+Vote Reset+Day Kill sounds too far fetched to me, especially when Portius only had 1 charge to use, vs. Lavinya apparently having 2-3.
If Yomoigu or Othero is lieing though, than we would have less reason to think other Soulless' power might line up with Portius', but then in that case one of them is lieing, and therefore likely to be the Soulless we're looking for, so Lavinya still likely not a Soulless in that case.
Looking over everybody that's left I only see a few possible suspects.
@Dylara: She's actually avoided any real suspicion so far. She's claimed a night kill and we've seen her day kill. If she was SK with a visible day-kill, Ushaara's probably the only person she could ever safely use it on without getting suspicion regardless of how Ushaara flipped. This does have the same issue of a Soulless supposedly Strongmanning Shaddus. There'd have to be a 3rd Soulless in the game, or Kethuru dieing empowered remaining Soulless somehow. I don't think either of those are super likely, but can't rule it out. Though can anybody remember if she mentioned her dayvig before or after Portius died?
@Yomoigu: His role claim is fairly odd one, limited use jailor/cop that dies if he doesn't find scum in x-attempts. Both of his claimed targets were visited by a Soulless on the same nights according to Othero, one of them dead. Selenity being alive and seeing what sounds plausibly like being jailed is in his favor though. There was also being jailed on the night of Breandryn's death, but from N1 with Kethuru and Illith being blocked, we know there's at least 3 scum kills.
@Othero: He claims to know 1 person the Soulless targetted at night, or apparently if they target one another. Like, what was the intended benefit to town with this? If a doctor/jailor saved somebody from the Soulless, we'd know for sure? I guess help if Soulless tried to throw people off by not targetting anybody? But considering there's at least 2 independently acting Soulless and he just sees the target of one randomly, it's barely useful at that either. This sounds like fairly specific and weak utility at best. I either feel sorry for Othero for getting stuck with this power, or for somehow getting stuck having to role with this claim. On both nights he was jailed, there have been only 1 death when we were expecting 2-3. Shaddus' death is a bit of a mystery again, since he was supposed to have been Strongmanned which couldn't have been Portius. Does Strongman usually go through blocks and protections, or just protections? I'm hesitant on the idea that both Soulless and Traitors were given strongman, more so than both Soulless getting it. There was also the fact that he got into a disagreement with Portius which would be kind of them to do as Soulless, but if I recall there wasn't really a lot of pressure from the rest of town on them, so who knows, maybe they both thought better to just stick to their statement when there wasn't an impending lynch on either of them.
Ok but so like. I know I mentioned it briefly earlier, I'm still a bit concerned by the fact that Ushaara is basically Thax now. Mushing someone's essence back together after they'd gotten chopped to pieces was exactly what happened to Thax, and it was only possible for Thax by using the Elixir during the procedure.
I am, I remain, and I always have been Malmydia. Nothing changed for me with my revival. If you're saying I'm essentially Thax-like off the flavour of the message then the Third Circle healers were all part of the Traitor faction and had the Elixir. Again blame Dylara for one stabby stab not being enough, or Silvanus for being a troll.
But if we're just throwing out vague suspicions, there's a history on these forums of alignment flips when one partner of a mason pair dies. I'm a bit concerned that you may have flipped alignment when Ssaliss died. A turn to 'any means necessary to gain revenge' type flip.
Hindsight is great, but I simply saw Sylandra as having been defensive of Portius, didn't believe her power claim, thought Breandryn dying was a little too convenient, and my process of elimination pegged her as Illith.
My radar is obviously off so don't want to vote again anytime soon, but doubtful that I have any credibility after this anyway.
Had a great read for Portius, a terrible one for Sylandra.
@Ushaara I've never had a different stance on your continued presence in the game, so it's not as if I've done any heel turns on my objectives to suggest an alignment shift, here. I've been suspicious of you for forever, because...well, everything about you is extremely suspicious. You've spent a good portion of the game since claiming turning around and pointing fingers at everyone who won't just drop it and move on from you, completely ignoring the part where everything about your role sounds like bad news. You've been acting so bewildered by the fact that claiming traditional badguy with some not-so-townie powers has drawn you so much fire this game, to which I have to say, what did you expect?
As was said when you first claimed: letting you persist in this game after claiming Malmydia is a mistake, because even if you do ultimately flip innocent, we're never going to completely get past it until you're gone. Your early claim was a pointless gesture that failed to accomplish your goal of clearing the names of historical Traitors, because all you've given us as proof is your word, which is basically meaningless. You're a potentially dangerous distraction whose presence has done more to hinder town in this game than to help it.
A lot of that may be true but again all I have -is- my word that I was given a role that made me look like a fall guy and I tried to be upfront about it. Miller type roles are designed to throw a wrench into things, and as I hope to never have to do again, are extremely difficult to play well.
I understand and can deal with some level of permanent suspicion. If I'm bewildered by anything it's the apparent argument that my presence is so distracting that it prevents the proper scrutiny of anyone else.
I never forced anyone into a claim, and saw Portius for what he was based on how quickly he wanted attention back on me, so think it's unfair to blame all of Town's bad plays on me, and like to think I have contributed positively!
But as I said, that I am such a perfect scapegoat is probably the sole reason I have yet to be converted.
I don't trust my judgement right now after I just monumentally got it wrong but goddamnit, it made sense for her to be Soulless. I thought I was about to unleash an epic takedown. Alas, instead I faceplanted on the runway.
My suspicions remain but I will wait a little bit and see what everyone else thinks. I understand dying for that huge misstep but at the same time I just proved two of my powers. I'm not one of the people holding their cards too close to the chest right now. We could pointlessly kill off town or we can closely assess the people who still seem to be skating largely under the radar.
Wasn't "blaming all of Town's bad plays" on you, just saying that you look bad and that draws people's attention whether you think it should or not. And this is exactly what I mean about your being suspicious of everyone who points a finger at you; you say you saw Portius as being scum because he turned on you so quickly, but you're zoomed in too far, thinking about it like that. It wasn't about you, it was about him trying to deflect on anyone he thought suspicion would stick to. He did the same thing directed at Tremula, Lavinya, and myself. And also, when was Sylandra ever defensive of Portius? Was it only as it pertained to agreeing to lynch you, before his wacky claim? Once again, way too focused on yourself. It's skewing your perspective of every other part of this game. I'd like to remind you that the only other scum we have confirmed so far was against lynching you, not for it. You can't keep trying to use someone putting pressure on you as a reliable scum tell.
I posted about Sylandra seeming to defend Portius right when Lavinya posted the execute.
Don't want to get drawn into another distracting argument right now, but telling me how I should be thinking isn't helpful right now. We all pick up on different things and our reasoning is always skewed by our own perspective and information. You disagree with mine, fine.
You know, this morning I've been thinking about how we have two jailers. Why would we have two, I was thinking.
And why would one be able to sense that soulless energy but not the other? Weiwae was confirmed base town (barring conversions in other words) by Luce. So if the ability to sense Soulless energy isn't valuable enough for town to have it, who would?
Your logic works, I won't disagree. If I was bluffing the power then I would have to be Soulless. But you are 100% ignoring the way that I am playing.
If I knew that Kethuru and Illith attacked each other on day 1 and I did not get it from my power then that means I'm Illith. Which puts me in a great position. I now know who Kethuru is and he now knows who I am. We can work together. So why would I ever call him out each time he lied and keep pushing a lynch in him? I had said before that I could of easily lied and said I misread my day 1 text and that I think Portius' version of events was right. Lynching me without being able to explain why one Soulless wanted to kill another when they knew who the other was is a bad move.
(Also I'm on vacation and going into Epcot now so I won't be posting again until tonight. Please don't lose your mind again.)
Your logic works, I won't disagree. If I was bluffing the power then I would have to be Soulless. But you are 100% ignoring the way that I am playing.
If I knew that Kethuru and Illith attacked each other on day 1 and I did not get it from my power then that means I'm Illith. Which puts me in a great position. I now know who Kethuru is and he now knows who I am. We can work together. So why would I ever call him out each time he lied and keep pushing a lynch in him? I had said before that I could of easily lied and said I misread my day 1 text and that I think Portius' version of events was right. Lynching me without being able to explain why one Soulless wanted to kill another when they knew who the other was is a bad move.
(Also I'm on vacation and going into Epcot now so I won't be posting again until tonight. Please don't lose your mind again.)
> why would I ever call him out each time he lied and keep pushing a lynch on him?
Because you would know who you attacked, but Portius might not know which player attacked him, just that Illith did. The result is that you would know who Portius is playing, and Portius would know there is an Illith, but not who was playing as Illith. Which means that if the train got started on Portius, the best way to make yourself appear innocent would be to push an attack on Portius.
I'm not ignoring it, I've said multiple times that it's my biggest hangup about the choice. But there's issues with everybody when I look at it, yours is just easier to explain away.
Ironically if Sylandra had been honest in her role, I'd have believed her. I had that power in my game under adore Delano. Permanent all consuming night immunity was just whacky.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Ironically if Sylandra had been honest in her role, I'd have believed her. I had that power in my game under adore Delano. Permanent all consuming night immunity was just whacky.
I believed her role (not the full extent of her power) because I know Sylandra, and that's just how Sylandra plays. When she's forced to reveal her hand by someone else, she tries to spin it in a way that doesn't leave her completely vulnerable. It was a bluff to keep scum from taking advantage of how her role works and getting her on a night when she was open.
If she'd been completely honest, she'd probably have already been dead or converted (if a traditional cult even is what we're dealing with, here - all the deaths we have with zero traitors besides Fain has me wary.) Town's not supposed to be completely honest. When you're completely honest and tell all your powers to everyone from the get-go, scum has the advantage, and you lose, and you die. I'm sure she would have come clean on the bluff if she'd been in danger of a lynch, but got dayvigged before there was any reason to feel like it was necessary.
Comments
You left Sylandra on the vote count! I feel like this would be the perfect opportunity to make some kind of stump joke, but nothing great is jumping out at me.
After this whole display I feel pretty safe in saying that Lavinya is not a Soulless. Not sure We know this wasn't just a death resist since the votes really did reset without the day ending, and we've just seen her pull off two day powers in a row. Also as I said before, if we believe Yomoigu and Othero, than we know a Soulless that wasn't Portius used a strongman power to kill Shaddus. And every way I think about it I can't see her being one, because it would mean she has pretty big arsenal of powers that just does not line up with what we saw from Kethuru in any way. Even if one Soulless dieing empowered the others, Strongman+Vote Reset+Day Kill sounds too far fetched to me, especially when Portius only had 1 charge to use, vs. Lavinya apparently having 2-3.
If Yomoigu or Othero is lieing though, than we would have less reason to think other Soulless' power might line up with Portius', but then in that case one of them is lieing, and therefore likely to be the Soulless we're looking for, so Lavinya still likely not a Soulless in that case.
Looking over everybody that's left I only see a few possible suspects.
@Dylara: She's actually avoided any real suspicion so far. She's claimed a night kill and we've seen her day kill. If she was SK with a visible day-kill, Ushaara's probably the only person she could ever safely use it on without getting suspicion regardless of how Ushaara flipped. This does have the same issue of a Soulless supposedly Strongmanning Shaddus. There'd have to be a 3rd Soulless in the game, or Kethuru dieing empowered remaining Soulless somehow. I don't think either of those are super likely, but can't rule it out. Though can anybody remember if she mentioned her dayvig before or after Portius died?
@Yomoigu: His role claim is fairly odd one, limited use jailor/cop that dies if he doesn't find scum in x-attempts. Both of his claimed targets were visited by a Soulless on the same nights according to Othero, one of them dead. Selenity being alive and seeing what sounds plausibly like being jailed is in his favor though. There was also being jailed on the night of Breandryn's death, but from N1 with Kethuru and Illith being blocked, we know there's at least 3 scum kills.
@Othero: He claims to know 1 person the Soulless targetted at night, or apparently if they target one another. Like, what was the intended benefit to town with this? If a doctor/jailor saved somebody from the Soulless, we'd know for sure? I guess help if Soulless tried to throw people off by not targetting anybody? But considering there's at least 2 independently acting Soulless and he just sees the target of one randomly, it's barely useful at that either. This sounds like fairly specific and weak utility at best. I either feel sorry for Othero for getting stuck with this power, or for somehow getting stuck having to role with this claim. On both nights he was jailed, there have been only 1 death when we were expecting 2-3. Shaddus' death is a bit of a mystery again, since he was supposed to have been Strongmanned which couldn't have been Portius. Does Strongman usually go through blocks and protections, or just protections? I'm hesitant on the idea that both Soulless and Traitors were given strongman, more so than both Soulless getting it. There was also the fact that he got into a disagreement with Portius which would be kind of them to do as Soulless, but if I recall there wasn't really a lot of pressure from the rest of town on them, so who knows, maybe they both thought better to just stick to their statement when there wasn't an impending lynch on either of them.
So to sum up.
Vote: Othero
But if we're just throwing out vague suspicions, there's a history on these forums of alignment flips when one partner of a mason pair dies. I'm a bit concerned that you may have flipped alignment when Ssaliss died. A turn to 'any means necessary to gain revenge' type flip.
Hindsight is great, but I simply saw Sylandra as having been defensive of Portius, didn't believe her power claim, thought Breandryn dying was a little too convenient, and my process of elimination pegged her as Illith.
My radar is obviously off so don't want to vote again anytime soon, but doubtful that I have any credibility after this anyway.
Had a great read for Portius, a terrible one for Sylandra.
I've never had a different stance on your continued presence in the game, so it's not as if I've done any heel turns on my objectives to suggest an alignment shift, here. I've been suspicious of you for forever, because...well, everything about you is extremely suspicious. You've spent a good portion of the game since claiming turning around and pointing fingers at everyone who won't just drop it and move on from you, completely ignoring the part where everything about your role sounds like bad news. You've been acting so bewildered by the fact that claiming traditional badguy with some not-so-townie powers has drawn you so much fire this game, to which I have to say, what did you expect?
As was said when you first claimed: letting you persist in this game after claiming Malmydia is a mistake, because even if you do ultimately flip innocent, we're never going to completely get past it until you're gone. Your early claim was a pointless gesture that failed to accomplish your goal of clearing the names of historical Traitors, because all you've given us as proof is your word, which is basically meaningless. You're a potentially dangerous distraction whose presence has done more to hinder town in this game than to help it.
I understand and can deal with some level of permanent suspicion. If I'm bewildered by anything it's the apparent argument that my presence is so distracting that it prevents the proper scrutiny of anyone else.
I never forced anyone into a claim, and saw Portius for what he was based on how quickly he wanted attention back on me, so think it's unfair to blame all of Town's bad plays on me, and like to think I have contributed positively!
But as I said, that I am such a perfect scapegoat is probably the sole reason I have yet to be converted.
My suspicions remain but I will wait a little bit and see what everyone else thinks. I understand dying for that huge misstep but at the same time I just proved two of my powers. I'm not one of the people holding their cards too close to the chest right now. We could pointlessly kill off town or we can closely assess the people who still seem to be skating largely under the radar.
Don't want to get drawn into another distracting argument right now, but telling me how I should be thinking isn't helpful right now. We all pick up on different things and our reasoning is always skewed by our own perspective and information. You disagree with mine, fine.
Either there is a conspiracy between Selenity, Yomoigu and Fyler, or the last remaining suspect is Othero or Lheki.
At this point I feel like Lavyina, Dylara, and Ushaara have proven themselves.
Vote Othero
If Othero turns up scum it was a really good bluff.
And why would one be able to sense that soulless energy but not the other? Weiwae was confirmed base town (barring conversions in other words) by Luce. So if the ability to sense Soulless energy isn't valuable enough for town to have it, who would?
A traitor. Who could use said energy.
Vote: Yomoigu.
If I knew that Kethuru and Illith attacked each other on day 1 and I did not get it from my power then that means I'm Illith. Which puts me in a great position. I now know who Kethuru is and he now knows who I am. We can work together. So why would I ever call him out each time he lied and keep pushing a lynch in him? I had said before that I could of easily lied and said I misread my day 1 text and that I think Portius' version of events was right. Lynching me without being able to explain why one Soulless wanted to kill another when they knew who the other was is a bad move.
(Also I'm on vacation and going into Epcot now so I won't be posting again until tonight. Please don't lose your mind again.)
Because you would know who you attacked, but Portius might not know which player attacked him, just that Illith did. The result is that you would know who Portius is playing, and Portius would know there is an Illith, but not who was playing as Illith. Which means that if the train got started on Portius, the best way to make yourself appear innocent would be to push an attack on Portius.
Currently not voting:
Guys we have 48 hours to attempt something. There's not a lot of us left.
If she'd been completely honest, she'd probably have already been dead or converted (if a traditional cult even is what we're dealing with, here - all the deaths we have with zero traitors besides Fain has me wary.) Town's not supposed to be completely honest. When you're completely honest and tell all your powers to everyone from the get-go, scum has the advantage, and you lose, and you die. I'm sure she would have come clean on the bluff if she'd been in danger of a lynch, but got dayvigged before there was any reason to feel like it was necessary.