The Elder Wars Mafia! Morgfyre and Malmydia Win! (Lavinya/Ushaara)

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  • So, I think we are at a bit of an impasse right now.

    The only people we have left unconfirmed from my second grouping is lehki and Sylandra, and Pheobus makes a good argument for Lehki, which would mean Sylandra is the most suspect from that group.

    On the other hand we have no easy way of confirming Yoimogu, Selenity and Fyler unless we lynch Selenity.

    On the third hand we have Othero.

    Lavinya in what situation do you see using your power for anything other than confirming your role?

  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    Random thoughts on @Weiwae's lists:

    Purely from an informational standpoint, I'd say @Othero would be an interesting choice. His power as we've said before is an easily faked one by a Soulless, and it's given us very little information post Night 2--to the point it becomes a bit repetitive, and useless, as a townie power. Not sure how to interpret the Portius/Othero showdown with that perspective though. Othero could be trying to prove himself as a townie, perhaps? But he seemed very okay with dying, to a degree I doubt a Soulless would be. I'm not exactly convinced he's town but I think he's acted in ways I wouldn't expect a Soulless to act, if that makes sense.

    I'd want to pressure @Yomoigu but he was jailed last night. I already explained my reasoning there, and I am still waiting for his reply to the questions I posed a few pages back.

    There is of course always the option that we try to lynch @Ushaara again but so much of that hinges on how his flavor text checks out, I guess. I find his power baffling but since it's mod-confirmed, I suppose it is what it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Speaking of flavor text, I am not entirely convinced of @Lehki's innocence because I don't want to be bamboozled by misleading flavor text. For example, Portius's lynch escape didn't read as a Soulless to me (very frightened and overwhelmed) but nonetheless he was a Soulless. So it's more of a "I want to keep my eyes open" suspicion on my part than a firm FoS.

    Re: the splintering conversation with @Selenity and @Fyler, something no one has brought up yet that I keep quietly wondering: didn't Illith splinter? Isn't it possible her role sheet could mention that? According to Othero she's in play, so I don't think it's out of the question. Even if Illith is not Fyler or Selenity, it's something to consider.

    The person of the above lists I'm actually most baffled by is @Lavinya. This is based on the Elder Wars, yes? While in theory Zvoltz was present, he actually isn't mentioned in the literal histories... more than, what, twice? It seems an unusual choice to include in this type of set-up, as do the powers assigned to the role flavorwise. Now, I believe she has the "roll back" power she claims she does, but I also know Lavinya as a player has a soft spot for Zvoltz and I could see her putting this role together as a fake claim. I'm not convinced by it.
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    Less soft spot and more crush, let's be real. 

    Honestly I like to think my power could be used on a runaway freight train of a lynch where I had serious doubts about the lynch but otherwise I can't see much practical use. I get a strong sense of irony from my role, in that a lot of the flavour is being a knight in shining armour and standing for justice but it's...not really a lot more than fluff haha. He's gonna be noble but get grievously wounded/let the sister die anyway (#toosoon).

    I have to agree with some skepticism re Lehki. Are we purely thinking he's innocent because he avoided a lynch? What else does he do? I'm not remembering power claim right now and on phone so harder to go back and look.



  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    Not so much confirming him as innocent, just personally considering him less likely to be Soulless than some of our other options. He could still turn out to be Soulless; it's not like we know all the details. But he name claimed a prominent Elder pretty early when a fakeclaim had more chance of backfiring, was saved by the First Circle during his lynch, and told us about his power instead of lying and claiming he simply had daykill immunity. He's been hanging on the sidelines for a lot of the game, which is generally pretty suspicious, but regardless of if he's totally innocent or not, I think he's probably not a Soulless. At the very least, I'm more willing to believe he isn't compared to people who haven't had even the smallest amount of possible validation of their claimed role.
  • Lavinya said:
    Less soft spot and more crush, let's be real. 

    Honestly I like to think my power could be used on a runaway freight train of a lynch where I had serious doubts about the lynch but otherwise I can't see much practical use. I get a strong sense of irony from my role, in that a lot of the flavour is being a knight in shining armour and standing for justice but it's...not really a lot more than fluff haha. He's gonna be noble but get grievously wounded/let the sister die anyway (#toosoon).

    I have to agree with some skepticism re Lehki. Are we purely thinking he's innocent because he avoided a lynch? What else does he do? I'm not remembering power claim right now and on phone so harder to go back and look.

    1-shot Governor was my only power, could have been used on anybody but had to use it to save myself. It's odd because it sounds like you have almost exactly the same power, but didn't you also claim other 1-shots?

    I'm gonna have to cling onto my claim of Aslarn. We know from Portius and Vivet that scum were not given safe claims, so if I was taking a wild guess for a fake claim on what 1st circle gods(to line up with the flavor of me not dieing) are not here, I got really lucky that there was no Aslarn in here.
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    That's fair, and it's one reason I'm not interested in pressuring @Lehki as much. I just don't want to accidentally give the impression he's a cleared townie due to his previous power use, when he certainly isn't.

    For now, I'm gonna back up my gut with a vote, since I should be scarce* for a bit and don't want to miss out: Vote Lavinya. 

    *(But let's be real I'm addicted and will be sneaking peeks at my phone way more than I should with this week's workload lol...)
    Lavinya said:
    Ok, cards on the table time. I am one of the Firsts, namely Zvoltz the Architect and I have a couple of one-off powers relating my strong sense of justice.

    -I can reweave the day in a matter of speaking. A twilight power, it will completely reset the day, returning to hour one, all votes removed and the lynch undone because I deem it to be unjust. It doesn't stop the victim from being re-lynched but it does mean I vouch for their innocence or think it needs more consideration. (Obviously I haven't used it yet)

    -I have a one-off guardian type power, where I swoop in dressed in my shining armour and will take the fall for someone else. The double-edged sword being if they are killed, I will die in their place and game over. Haven't used it yet either.

    -Lastly I have a one-off Vigilante kill because sometimes Pappa Z needs to take justice into His own hands.

    I let the name slip earlier in the game mostly as a teasing little thread to see if someone would claim Him down the line. The reason I really wanted to sit on it was because timing on my powers is important and I didn't really want to have to use them to prove myself given they're one-shot. I was hoping to wait for the perfect moment, and two, I have reason to believe I am susceptible to <redacted> by <redacted>.
    As I said before, I think her claim makes the least sense for an Elder Wars game. At least the Fates are a large part of the final chapters of the Elder Wars histories! But Zvoltz? He's in two sentences. Not really buying that @Silvanus would choose to include Zvoltz over some other characters, nor am I buying that these abilities are inherently townie ones.

    -Reweaving the day is really frustrating for town. It means rehashing the same old arguments and rebuilding lynch trains. I can see it being beneficial for scum, however, buying time to try to out-think a lynch they've caught themselves in. Moreso for Traitors in this game than the Soulless, as the latter doesn't seem to be a faction.

    -A one-off guardian power is easy to claim and hard to prove. I'm also not convinced it's very Zvoltzian, tbh. I would believe it for roles like, say, Isune or Amberle, who have sacrifice as an integral part of their character. Or perhaps Lantra or Eventru, who care about healing etc. But not so much Zvoltz. As much as he cares for other divine, he's not one I'd give this ability to. Seems easily made up, hard to prove, and not entirely role-related imho.

    -One-off vigilante could easily be a Soulless/Traitor kill. Goes without saying.

    -A name slip is also a way of testing the waters to see who reacts, in order to see if your fakeclaim will be counterclaimed. Lavinya was the last person to claim, save for Yomo, who already limited his claim to Triumvirate. So Zvoltz was a safe bet to claim at this point.

    So, based on the current wealth of information, this is where I'm placing my vote for now.
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    *Obviously Soulless are a faction, I meant group faction. They seemingly act independently.
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • I admit that her claimed powers don't make much sense for Zvoltz. What's the power called, Lavinya?
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • Wait, is that considered quoting? Hmm. 
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    (If it is, Tremula didn't get in trouble for saying her ability is literally called "Powerless.")
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    I actually find it hard to believe @Lehki was only given a single one-shot power. My powers are one-shot, sure, but I have a couple (arguably not all are as useful as each other) so paint me highly skeptical that he is now completely vanilla townie. 

    I'm on mobile which makes flipping back to my messages and here annoying and copy pasting sucks on it but when I'm back on my computer I will give the names of my powers for you doubting thomases.



  • I am totally vanilla townie now that I used my power. I've been skeptical of everybody with unusual power claims because of it. From the flips we've seen so far don't think we've actually seen a lot highly unusual powers, but I'm having a hard time remembering or looking them up from mobile. 
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    I'm just a Mason, so. Everyone's got like, five hundred immunities and I've just got a dead sister. Not everyone's sitting on a big bag of tricks.
  • I mean, I'm vanilla up until I die, and we've seen a mason flip with no extra powers, so I don't find it that odd. 
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • I know that the mafia kills people. This game is either low powered or (claimed) insane powers. No middle ground.
  • Sorry for the delay, things got real busy at work. To address Sylandra's questions from a few pages back:

    1) The way Yomoigu first claimed was very careful: "I'm Triumvirate." It felt like he was waiting to make sure no one had claimed Jadice or Mysrai before he made a claim. There was really no reason to hold back which one he was, tbh, unless he was covering his ass first. Hence my side-eye. (Also if there is more than one member of the Triumvirate, I want to know why there isn't 3/3 to complete the set. Is @Silvanustrolling here? Idk.)
    Maybe it would have been better to claim my name then, but at that time I was still wanting to hold both my role and identity close to the chest. I don't know why only 2/3 of the Triumvirate is present, except that since we don't seem to have special Triumvirate bonding there doesn't seem to be a particular reason to have us all. 

    2) Why would Mysrai be a jailer who is a Soulless sniffer? What's the rationale? It seems like an ill-suited power, though maybe some Gaudi players might want to weigh in on this. It's also really incredible to me that Yomo has an ability that Weiwae mistakenly believed he had earlier on, particularly when the two have such similar abilities already. And why two jailers? I have questions about this set-up.
    I am charged with discovering the truth behind the Traitor conspiracy and do so by isolating individuals and sniffing out excorporedito energy. As far as power suitability goes, not everything in this game has exactly made sense...Why is Meridian a Doctor, for one, or how come Hoaracle becomes a master ninja if targeted? I've already expressed my thoughts on the two-jailer situation (different goal with the jailing and I can't act every night unless I'm stupid lucky). I was gearing up to pounce on Weiwae when he made his mistake (hence my questioning of him) but Silvanus clarified the situation before I had to claim early.

    3) Question #1: What does it mean to be "removed from the game" if Yomo makes too many poor guesses in a row? How does that happen in practice, flavor-wise? Shamefully banishes himself to the void? (I also agree with @Weiwae it bears uncanny resemblance to Portius's "Almighty" power limitations and could be a way of building on what Yomo already has if he's Soulless.)
    "Removed from the game" = I am dead for all intents and purposes. Flavor-wise if I get too many negative results in row I decide that I am Mysrai, and there is a more important matter to address.

    4) Question #2: @Yomoigu does this mean you can say 100% that Selenity is not a Traitor/Soulless?
    She is no Soulless, and was not a Traitor as of Night 2.

    I apologize if this seems abrupt as it is late and I am bushed. Let me know if that touches everything!
  • Seems to me the best course of action is to lynch Lavinya, if she is telling the truth it won't happen and we won't lose the day and if not we grab some scum.

    Unovte
    Vote Lavinya
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Hoped to let things cool yesterday so kept the head down, but to respond to what was brought up..

    The Third Circle would not have protected me from a lynch, only from an attack. Swooping in to heal my wounds. 

    Now ever since I defended Synkarin who was scum in the Reign mafia, I'm wary of people who aren't really defending themselves, so do want to hear more from @Lavinya

    But here is where my thoughts are at on everyone else

    Confirmed Roles:
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    Weiwae - Roark - Luce investigation
    Ushaara - Malmydia - Third Circle swoop in
    Dylara - Orlachmar - Daykill power
    Phoebus - Elfenehoala - Mason pair
    Lehki - Aslarn - First Circle intervention

    Semi-confirmed:
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Selenity - Fates - being confirmed by Fyler/Hallifur
    Fyler - Bollikin - being confirmed by Selenity/Hallifur

    Uncertain:
    =-=-=-=-=
    Sylandra - Hoaracle - confirmed self-watch
    Lavinya - Zvoltz - unconfirmed powers
    Yomoigu - Mysrai - confirmed jailor, but weird claim
    Othero - Dracnoris - barring N1/N2, 'a Soulless killed the dead person' 


    Not to discount the Traitor threat, but confirmed and semi-confirmed roles are meaningless with a cult in play, and it is simply easier to focus on finding Illith. 

    So focusing on Soulless, of the last four, we know one of them has to be Illith.

    I said before I don't believe the Soulless are going around blocking/investigating, and are simply looking to omnomnom us.

    I'm less inclined to believe Lavinya and Yomoigu are Illith because they are claiming powers that are either already proven, or are testable today. 

    So for me, the choice of who is Illith comes down to between @Sylandra and @Othero

    Of the two, I think it would have to be Sylandra, as Othero knew the phrasing of the win condition on Day 1 and used it to pressure Xeii. I also think Sylandra is the more likely to have been targeted by Portius.

    Now there is definitely some residual bias against Sylandra from the Los Alamos mafia here, and it is more suspicion than any definite proof. 

    Hoaracle is a convincing claim. Whacher -> Watcher fits. But the whole claim is contingent on the self-watching aspect, and not so much the 'vanishing', since she -didn't- vanish before Shaddus could follow her.

    Shaddus simply didn't see her target anyone, which as pointed out before, might just be because she was blocked from acting. All gods can go poof, and reading more from the flavour message can lead us into mistaken assumptions.

    So willing to lynch Lavinya to test the power claim, and as pointed out, Zvoltz is relatively minor in Elder War history. If it checks out, a Mysrai/Zvoltz dynamic looks more likely than 2/3 Triumverate, and will likely hop to Sylandra.

    Vote Lavinya

    Also have a follow-up question for @Yomoigu

    What do you mean by 'I decide I'm Mysrai, and have a more important matter to address?'
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    Ok just to ensure I don't get into trouble, I am sorta paraphrasing a smidge but not a lot. 

    I have Defend the Defenseless, Take Justice into Your own hands, and a Fair Trial.

    Yomoigu really brings up a valid point - What makes meridian an obvious doctor for example? If I'm suspected scum because my powers don't seem Zvoltzy enough then it seems a bit rich when there are other roles with seemingly more unrelated abilities. The game is a bit of a re-write on the histories after all, not a re-enactment of canon. Voting me for that reason seems highly suspicious and frankly I'm growing more and more sceptical of @Sylandra as a result. 

    I can use my reset power as proof of my abilities as needed. I can vig someone to prove it. Heck I can take one for the team to prove it. But how on earth are we supposed to verify someone who can't even be tracked properly at night by a tracker? Almost seems like an investigation immunity and I don't know why town would have that, nor why they would need to know who targeted them.

    Ok the more I think on it the more it makes sense. What good does it do a townie to see who targets them? They can confirm town (but then almost anyone who sees a jailing for example on them can confirm it without it being a power.) They can see who kills them? They can see who converts them? I have this horrible horrible feeling dawning over me like in Los Alamos when I realised Sylandra had been playing us from the beginning that maybe, just maybe she has done it quite brilliantly all over again. It's just not sitting right. 

    --------Damnit I left my post open so long again and have been ninja'd by Ushaara. Glad I'm not the only one looking at Sylandra closely, and secondly I am defending myself! The best way to do it I have to agree it to just use my power. If I was bluffing, I'd be flailing like mad to redivert the lynch but I'm ok with it, I can undo it and hopefully that's enough to get us looking at the real suspects again.



  • Lavinya, did you mean to vote but forgot to?
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    Oh I did actually. But then I'm not sure I can clear my name unless I am lynched and I don't want to make things drag on either way. Vote Sylandra.



  • SelenitySelenity My first MC to stay in Serenwilde
    I'm leaning towards Lavinya or Sylandra at the moment.

    For now, I'm going to UNVOTE and Vote: Lavinya.


    Which I believe puts us at...

    Lavinya - Sylandra, Weiwae, Ushaara, Selenity (4)<br>Lehki - Dylara (1)

    correct me if I'm wrong though. 6 to lynch.
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    I have a question, @Lavinya. Was there a reason you didn't use your guardian skill on @Xeii the doctor? Or @Luce the investigator? Because that strikes me as the most useful way it could have been used. 
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • Before I place my vote, can @Lavinya confirm that the day-reset power was sent by Breandryn and is not intrinsic? I thought that it was mentioned but it seems to have been ignored.
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    Yomoigu said:
    Before I place my vote, can @Lavinya confirm that the day-reset power was sent by Breandryn and is not intrinsic? I thought that it was mentioned but it seems to have been ignored.
    This is the first I'm hearing of it to my knowledge. Relevant post?
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    I wasn't sent anything by Breandryn. Also in regards to using my guardian power, Zvoltz is noble but I wanted to stay in the game because playing is more fun than being a martyr. I totally get why Fyler doesn't want to die to prove she can still vote but essentially have game over. 



  • Gah, no I was mistaken. She talked about HER OWN twilight ability in the middle of a discussion on using Lavinya's and I conflated the two. Comment withdrawn
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    Lavinya said:
    I wasn't sent anything by Breandryn. Also in regards to using my guardian power, Zvoltz is noble but I wanted to stay in the game because playing is more fun than being a martyr. I totally get why Fyler doesn't want to die to prove she can still vote but essentially have game over. 
    The thing about both these claims are that they are impossible to prove and simultaneously are not being played to the best of their ability (ie choosing to prioritize certain town roles over others). To me that's a suspicious combination.

    I also want to clarify that my beef with your role is only 1% the "not Zvoltzian flavor" aspect. Majority is that Zvoltz doesn't match the Elder Wars theme, and your powers have negative town utility imo, for reasons I outlined above.
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • My role is being played to the best of its ability, for the record. Throwing myself under the axe to prove my role is half the story. I'll say it for the 100th time, you guys just don't have line of sight to some things yet. 
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    My guardian power is also one shot. How awkward would it be to intercept a jailing? Or armour delivery? Hindsight is great and all but I was hardly deliberately sucking at being a hero.



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