Sea Battle - Cay

Arimisia

Alright so, as the topic states, I want to discuss ideas involving the Cay quest and how it effect the Sea Battle. In game wise, other than envoying it which would bring no change, I'd rather discuss it here.

 

As it stands right now, turning cay to your side equals win. There is no other outcome. Neutral is the only way both sides of the table is on equal playing ground. The cay can be done once every 15 hours so for one side to turn it away from the other side and into their favor, would take in the area of 30+ hours, most of that waiting around twiddling their thumbs.

 

First and foremost, I think 15 hours is way too much for a quest reset that has an effect on epic quest. Secondly, auto win also effecting epic quest is also very frustrating. Why was the Cay ever introduced for this effect in the first place? It makes a nice bashing area, having a quest to do there is also nice, but why does it need to effect the sea battle, or effect it to such an extreme?

 

From Magnagora point of view, not only is the distance far greater than it is for Celest, we are having to go through enemy territory to even get to the Cay which risks great exp loss if Celest or someone else happens to catch you in the Inner Sea and kill you. The Cay quest never takes you into any part of Magnagora territory so  Celest never takes the same risk.

 

If the admin would ever take opinions about changes to this quest, these are some of my own, and I'd hope the posts that follow this, would give their own, respectfully.

 

-Cay timmer should be drastically reduced

-Turning Cay in favor should not equal auto win for that side, but make it harder for the other side but not impossible as it is now.

-Because of the location of the Cay, maybe either add a way by land to reach Cay directly from Balach Swamp

OR

-add a counter Cay quest in the Sea of Despair which would make Celest have to take the same risk Magnagora currently does in entering enemy territory to do a quest.

-on this counter quest idea, basically, make it nullify the Cay, set it back to neutral and cause it to reset in an hour or so. In this instance, the current timer really would not be as hard to deal with as it is now.

Daevos

I support this effort. Cay has made the sea battle almost unbearable.

Cyndarin

I think the request to modify enemy areas is a little silly. That specific change is a little to carebear. Sometimes you die. Run faster next time.

Xenthos

Or why not just make it a 1-hour reset before you can do the counterquest in the Cay?

Moving it to Neutral leaves it with a 15-hour neutral period (so everyone can work on it during that time).  This also helps prevent it from just being spammed back and forth; I'm pretty sure the reason it has a long cooldown is specifically to prevent such, and that would be a major headache.

Doing the quest gives you a 1-hour guarantee of 'peace', before it can be undone.

I'm not really convinced of the "enemy territory" point simply because of the plethora of ways to teleport into an area.  Torus, hermit, demesne center, demigod anchor power, pyramid points, and so on; you really just need to get into the area once, and the first time you run through the Sea you're just not going to get caught.  It's the repeated attempts to run through it once they know you're trying that they are watching out for.  Plus, the enemy territory is NPC enemy territory, so there's no "risk of great loss".

The real issue would, to me, appear to be that you can be locked out for 15+ hours without being able to do a thing during that time and I'd think it would be pretty simple to adjust that.

Daevos

The territory argument matters because it has had an effect on the conflict. Also it's not a single data point.  Most of the quests that affect the sea battle require travel through the Inner Sea.

To put that another way, more time has to be spent in the Inner Sea or in areas connected to it than in the Sea of Despair or areas connected to it. That fact doesn't change, no matter which side you're on.

 

Yaffi

Lanikai is very easy to get amnesty from. Maybe if you stopped killing her long enough to let all the right people request it, it wouldn't be an issue!

Lavinya

But isn't status given again from killing dolphins? Which are needed to give to Ladantine to turn into Seawolves? I don't think attacking anything other than Ladantine or a vampire squid get you enemied to the sea of despair. Like it or not, it does seem rather skewed.

Arimisia

Lavinya said:

But isn't status given again from killing dolphins? Which are needed to give to Ladantine to turn into Seawolves? I don't think attacking anything other than Ladantine or a vampire squid get you enemied to the sea of despair. Like it or not, it does seem rather skewed.

yes, you are enemied for killing kelpie (not the ones that are released mutant and warrior), dragon turtles (even the ones that end up in SoD), and dolphins.to be enemied to SoD, ladantine, vampire squid and seawolves if/when we have them.

Eventru

I've not really formed an opinion on the matter, but I feel there's a few false dichotomies being played out to make one side appear the victim.

While you're forced to walk through enemy to get to the cay, at no point are you really forced to be in the Inner Sea for very long during your general epic chain (you have to walk to the Ship of the Dead to raise it, IIRC, and that's the only instance).

Conversely, Celest is forced to spend an entire 1/3 of their epic quests in enemy territory (Spectres) and the majority of another 1/3 in off-prime territory (Reflections of Malacoda). Of the remaining 1/3, it requires, as Magnagora's does, winning the sea battle, and then they are forced partake of an occasionally frustrating (though mitigated by auto walk and hermits, pyramids, etc) trudge through the Sea of Despair to a room loyal to Ladantine, multiple times, to raise Marilynth.

That's excluding the fact their entire city quest requires them to leave to city, alone in that IIRC (save Gaudiguch and its okorushi, I suppose) to collect mobs anyone can steal, and requires a mob that can not only be killed, is deliberately done at regular intervals (not to accuse or point fingers, it's a game of conflict, I certainly don't blame anyone).

There's also a perceived disparity between the difficult to raise turtles and sea wolves - one requires time, luck, and a bit of bashing, the other requires a bit of bashing (or waiting for invulnerability to wear off). I think (but could be mistaken) that when the "evil" cay quest is done, Lanikai can't be reached to do the Celest beacons quest altogether.

Regarding the Cay, I think reducing the reset time greatly would cause far more frustration than you would ever imagine. Not everyone remembers back to the daily sea battles and fighting over that quest, but as it is now is far better/more comfortable.

I note there is another quest which has a direct effect on the Sea quests as well, and is essentially an "I win" button should it be completed, in the same vein as the Cay. Nothing stops you from completing it.

Edit: I did just remember the Arysian quest requires hunting Merians in Nyalia, though that's rarely a place of contention. Still, I do feel obligated to point it out.

Cyndarin

Daevos said:

The territory argument matters because it has had an effect on the conflict. Also it's not a single data point.  Most of the quests that affect the sea battle require travel through the Inner Sea.

To put that another way, more time has to be spent in the Inner Sea or in areas connected to it than in the Sea of Despair or areas connected to it. That fact doesn't change, no matter which side you're on.

 

I understand the point. I simply disagree that a slight "imbalance" in terms of enemy territory time requires a change simply because people don't like being in enemy territory/risk a death. The argument wasn't to change the quest to include possible Mag deaths, so I can only assume people just don't like the risk.

Does it being in enemy territory make the quest difficult to complete for competent and equipped players to a degree that it's unfair for Magnagora? That's the question, really, and to which I answer "Not any more so than someone spawn killing mobs."

 

I see no issue with addressing the rest of the problem. I just don't thin having to walk through enemy territory which will take a small handful of seconds requires admin code time. Just walk faster. Or learn to escape better. Welcome to Lusternia, people die.

Arimisia

another quest.. I am not sure which other there is other than the kelpie which is not really an "I win" ( I win with the amount of gold those things drop, love killing em). what is annoying is concerning only the sea battle, it is almost all in the inner sea. The cay, the kelpie quest, to get our seawolves you have to kill dolphins which can be protected with those necklaces. killing the sea turtles as far as I know do nothing for us but tick celest off. Celest, has to kill a shark, find a golden dragon turtle, feed it and take it the the isle of light and boom, new dragon turtle, never set foot is SoD.

Anyhow, I am focusing purely on this part of the epic for celest and mag, the winning of the sea battle, nothing more.

Silvanus

I think a general misconception is being played out here.

When you walk through enemy territory, you very rarely have an enemy in the room to attack you or stop you from getting to where you are going.

They are in the area to Zap you. And that continues declaration into Cay. There is no amount of running faster that will get you there without being attacked if the situation is right. And with as wonky as Avenger has been, you aren't even guaranteed to lose status on that person once they start attacking you.

On another note,

The sea battle was just far more fun when it was fought over the Seas(yes, in enemy territory even), instead of over 6 oysters/6 pearls/50 starfish (or spheres)/15 elementals in some side quest that is so easily stopped that the only times you can really complete the quest is when A. No one gives a damn about it because the sea battle isn't anywhere close, or B. 5-9AM American time, after Australians have gone to sleep and before the (bulk) Americans come around.

Edit: Also, to raise Ladantine, Magnagora has to run to the second to last floor of the Inner Sea and enter a ship. Its extremely similar situation to raising Marilynth, exception being that in theory a person only has to run there once.

Enyalida

@EventruSeren's also requires a fair bit of work outside the org! 

Moi

Let's clear up some misconceptions here:
1. The Sea battle happens ~7 RL days after Marilynth/The Ship of the Dead goes down from the last sea battle. Who wins is decided by totalling up the number of Sea Wolves in the Sea of Despair and the number of Dragon Turtle in the Inner Sea and comparing the two. Whoever has more is the victor.
2. Celest makes more Dragon Turtles by leading an already existing Dragon Turtle to the Isle of Light in the Inner Sea. You can only get a Dragon Turtle to follow you if it is "searching around frantically" which happens at a semi-random time after the turtle is first spawned and you give it a shark corpse. Magnagora gets rid of Dragon Turtles by killing them, except for 1 dragon turtle that respawns as long as the Cay isn't Pro-Magnagora.
3. Magnagora makes more Sea Wolves by giving Dolphin corpses to Ladantine. This requires that Ladantine be alive, that the Dolphins not be protected by either the Celest-Cay quest or the Seashell Necklace quest. Celest gets rid of Sea Wolves by killing them and giving them to Lanikai, which spawns another Dolphin in the Inner Sea as a result. The sum of Dolphins and Sea Wolves is fixed.
4. Each Warrior Kelpie alive at the time of the Sea Battle counts as one Dragon Turtle or one Sea Wolf for the purposes of who wins the Sea Battle. It spawns about 30 of them or so. Seriously. If you do the Joiya side quest, they appear in the Inner Sea and count as Dragon Turtles and if you do the Jeitara side quest, they appear in the Sea of Despair and count as Sea Wolves. In either case, they don't enemy and you lower their numbers by going into enemy territory to kill them.
5. The Cay has 3 possible states: Pro-Celest, Neutral or Pro-Magnagora. The Celest Cay quest moves it one step toward Celest and the Magnagora Cay quest moves it one step toward Magnagora. If it's at Pro-Celest, Dolphins, Dragon Turtles, Lanikai and Kelpies cannot be killed, making it imposible for Magnagora to gain Seawolves or remove Dragon Turtles. If it's at Pro-Magnagora, all of the Dragon Turtles (including the one respawning one), all of the Kelpies and Lanikai die and don't respawn until it's at least Neutral, making it impossible to kill Sea Wolves and getting rid off all the Dragon Turtles automatically.

My personal suggestions:
-Make a ship on Nyalia that goes to the Cay. This lets you go Alabaster Highway to Tidal Flats, Tidal Flats to Nyalia and then Nyalia to Cay without ever stepping into the water. I bet you could even convince Celest to fund it.
-Make it so that if you do the Pro-Celest quest while the Cay is currently Pro-Celest, or the Pro-Magnagora while the Cay is Pro-Magnagora, it resets after only 1 hour. This means that Celest isn't going to complete the Cay quest every time it opens in order to keep Magnagora from doing it and that Magnagora can't do the same if they end up on top next summer.

Phudmog

I feel like I should speak up, as I am among the people stuck in the bottleneck of the Magnagora epic quest that is the sea battle (and have been stuck there for a long time).  Yes, it sucks that Celest has been able to keep the Cay to their side for so long.  It's frustrating as balls.  That is how I feel about it - now let me try to make some points that are not coloured by those feelings.

1. Regarding enemy territory.

There are ways to get to the Cay already that do not involve walking through the Inner Sea.  None of them are available to me, unless I borrow an artifact, but that's beside the point.  I count 7 rooms in the Inner Sea from the Toronada River to the Cay.  There are other parts on both sides of the Sea Battle that require much more risk in enemy territory than getting to the Cay.  If you want to add a ship/balloon/bridge/whatever, go ahead, but it's not a must-have, in my opinion.

2. Regarding reset time.

From my experience, Magnagora is losing the Cay because at certain times of RL day, we are severely outmanned.  I am typically around during North American mornings, where our CWHO shows on average about 4 people, about half of whom are holed up in manses and never seen on prime.  On the other hand, I can list at least a dozen people from Celest who I have regularly seen on the Cay or in the Seas at this time of day.

The Cay is a long, highly disruptable quest on both sides.  I have been advised numerous times not to even bother trying it without both a gem and a pig nose.  My "best-case" scenario is to keep disrupting the Celest side of the quest until someone wakes up on our side who has the means to actually complete the quest.  If we cannot stop the quest being done in the morning, that means it gets locked out in the evening when we (potentially) have a numbers advantage.

I very much approve of Iytha's last suggestion.  Doing the quest while it is already set to your side should have a much shorter reset time.  The reset when the Cay actually changes states could stand to be shortened too, but I can see Eventru's point about not making it too short.

3. Regarding the effect of the Cay on the Sea Battle (the so-called "autowin").

The long reset time on the Cay does make it very, very important in winning the balance of dolphins versus seawolves.  Essentially, if the Cay is set to your side, none of the dolphins/seawolves on your side of the battle can be converted, while you are free to pick off the other side's and convert them.  Protecting dolphins/seawolves for 15 hours while the Cay resets is a pipe dream.

Let's talk about how important the kelpies really are in the Sea Battle.  I just release mutant kelpies a couple hours ago - at a time that is basically unimportant as far as the Sea Battle goes, and when population on both sides is low.  All of them were dead within 90 minutes.  They are essentially not protectable, since they appear all over -both- seas, and do not enemy.  So, unless you manage to do the kelpie quest within 90 minutes of the Sea Battle, it makes zero difference.  Preventing this quest in those 90 minutes is also very easy.  Bringing up kelpies as a legitimate reason that the Cay is not an autowin button for the Sea Battle is a large red herring.

4. Other Imbalances?

This is more of a question to those who have been doing this longer than I have.  The Cay protects either dolphins or seawolves from conversion, depending on who finished it last.  Dolphins are also able to be protected by seashell necklaces.  Is there a similar second protection available for Seawolves?  Why or why not?  Assuming that the Cay is neutral, it is already easier to keep Ladantine dead (you can kill him and steal the pearl for a 2 hour respite) than it is to keep Lanikai dead (who respawns 1 hour after being killed regardless).

Dragon turtles also only appear on one side of the sea battle, and are worth the same as dolphins and kelpies in determining the victor.  The Cay has a great effect on their population - pro-Celest means they cannot be removed (they disperse into mist and respawn) while pro-Magnagora means they all die.  Is there a similar third set of mobs available on the Magnagora side?  Why or why not?

Qistrel

Wait, do dolphins count like dragon turtles and sea wolves for the sea battle? Thought they didn't. I thought it was dragon turtles vs sea wolves (with kelpie warriors/mutant kelpies helping out).

Phudmog

Oh, that would be my bad, then.  I've been trained to think "dolphins = bad". Ignore that last paragraph, then.

Edit: also, it can be 4 rooms in the Inner Sea from Toronada to Cay - just found a quicker route.

Karlach

Eventru said:
Edit: I did just remember the Arysian quest requires hunting Merians in Nyalia, though that's rarely a place of contention. Still, I do feel obligated to point it out.

Strongly disagree on this one, I use to get declared in that area by Celest while trying to close the rift, which meant the area wasn't enemy territory for me. There are people in Celest who check that area, it's even listed in the alliance treaty with Glom as a Celest defended area.

Also is Spectre isle linked to SoD enemy territory? I always thought they were separate areas.

Arimisia

Morkarion said:

Also is Spectre isle linked to SoD enemy territory? I always thought they were separate areas.

Spectre Isle is a separate area from SoD but you have to go through SoD to get there.. well, guess you do not -have- to if you have the credits to spend on expensive artifacts or are strong enough to go theough the catacombs (I think anyone can use that portal not 100% sure on that one)

Alacardael

I'm pretty sure they are separate areas but count under one enemy status of Ladantine.

Kiradawea

They're the same for enemy status. If you're enemied to Ladantine, you're on enemy grounds while on the Spectre Isle.

Llandros

Nothing on Spectre Isle will enemy you to the SoD though. If you aren't enemied to Ladantine you can do anything you want there and not worry.

I am curious about the necklace quest. I know we have one to buff Ladantine up, he's still easily solo-able though. But I don't know of anything that can protect the sharks that Celest needs to make Dragon Turtles.

Being able to halt dragon turtle production would be more helpful than a stronger Ladantine who still dies and isn't any help if we can't kill dolphins

Edit:

I guess it would be easier for us rp wise to cull our own sharks than Celest killing cute cuddly dolphins but that's not something hard coded.

Phudmog

Llandros said:

Edit:

I guess it would be easier for us rp wise to cull our own sharks than Celest killing cute cuddly dolphins but that's not something hard coded.

Also, if any shark corpse works, culling all of the sharks in the Basin would be nearly a full-time job.

Kiradawea

The necklace quest involves getting three seashell from the bottom of the Inner Sea and handing them over to a kelpie. I don't know how long the necklace stays active. From back when I worked on getting the mantle it felt like it didn't last very long at all, but regardless. The quest itself is easy enough and not one that's really "disruptable", seeing that if there's a dolphin in need of protection, you'd want to be killing that, rather than try to get every seashell or every kelpie.

Silvanus

They last for 3-5 hours.

Also the sea battle happens every 2-5 days after Ladantine/Marilynth is lowered. I've never seen it take 7 days before, but have won multiple Strong Arms in the same IG year.

And you will need to disrupt the Seashell quest, or else they will easily go kill your seawolf, turn it into a dolphin, and put the protection on it. The only two solutions is to keep Lanikai dead, every single hour, and farm the reset time. Or do the same thing with seashells, because there is no way you will be protecting a mob from dying on prime, especially ones that can be killed in one hit.

(And before someone tells me they can't be killed in one hit, you just aren't smart enough. Go around and kill things on the floor around it until you get a World-shattering hit, then walk into the room and damageshift to that Mob. Tada! Guaranteed one hit kill).

Eventru

Llandros said:

Nothing on Spectre Isle will enemy you to the SoD though. If you aren't enemied to Ladantine you can do anything you want there and not worry.

I am curious about the necklace quest. I know we have one to buff Ladantine up, he's still easily solo-able though. But I don't know of anything that can protect the sharks that Celest needs to make Dragon Turtles.

Being able to halt dragon turtle production would be more helpful than a stronger Ladantine who still dies and isn't any help if we can't kill dolphins

Edit:

I guess it would be easier for us rp wise to cull our own sharks than Celest killing cute cuddly dolphins but that's not something hard coded.

That's a bit of really terrible comparison.

Equivalent to that would be saying this - get rid of the sea shell quest to protect the dolphins and then, for every sea wolf you have, there's a percent chance (less than 50%) you might be able to convert one more dolphin per hour. There will always be one sea wolf.

I've only been skimming (the past couple of days have been really busy for me), but it seems like a lot of the people complaining about the quest itself actually don't understand the quest mechanics of the opposing side. Not all, but it seems there's a few. I also note the seashell quest, while nice, can't be used to protect all the dolphins in one run (it takes a couple). The protection is also not too long-lived (a few hours), so you'd have a small off period before having to do more runs, just to keep them all protected.

While it may seem unfair that dolphins can be protected and seawolves cannot, you can very easily raise 20 sea wolves in half an hour - conversely, dragon turtles take a fair amount of effort over an extended period of time (you have to scour the Inner Sea to find all the turtles, see if any are golden, if so find a shark to kill, then find that wandering, golden turtle again - every hour for quite a while).

So your 'way to halt turtles' request/thought is pretty far awry. And I think in the long run, you'd find it to be untenable to maintain actively due to low population at the current time, and worse that sea wolves being harder to raise will make it that much worse for you.

To note, the winner of the Sea Battle is determined by the number of dragon turtles versus the number of sea wolves. Kelpies, etc don't play into it (beyond the effects of the Carai Caroo quest, that do have an effect on Ladantine/Lanikai).

Also, while you can say 'Nothing on spectres enemies to Ladantine so you can just walk through protected', nothing on Cloadahi enemies to Kelpies so you can just walk through the Inner Seas, protected. So it seems like either both are perceived problems, or neither are. Particularly since the argument being made is Magnagora is forced to spend too much time in enemy territory for their epic quest versus Celest.

Like I said though, I really don't have a formed opinion on whether or not it's a problem. I think the real issue (as touched on by Phudmog) is the population disparity. Honestly, I don't think any of you genuinely want the Cay quest reset time to be reduced. It would just prove frustrating to both orgs when the objective becomes 'complete it or frustrate them until they can't'. Which would lead to calls demanding it be open PK (which have already started, even though on-prime areas are not and won't be open PK save for specific events), or enemy-able territory. And given there's no sapient population save the transmogrified souls of a Holy Celestine Empire project participants and they're invulnerable, that doesn't really make sense (or, for the organizations it would make sense - like the Kelpies - it would tilt it pretty unfairly in favour of Celest).

Honestly, would you rather fight for the Cay every 60-240 minutes, or the way it is now, in terms of reset time? Magnagora has it particularly easy on this front - they can raise Ladantine's sea wolves more or less instantly (and so only need to worry about the Cay as the day of the battle approaches), versus Celest who is forced to spend many hours to achieve the same goal (while trying to prevent you from doing it as well).

And while some are griping regarding having to walk through 4 rooms of the Inner Sea to the Cloadahi Cay, they're in the same group who has no problem entering the Inner Sea to kill Lanikai and run away. Certainly, you can make your way through those four rooms pretty quickly, before anyone can attack (or instead of killing Lanikai, send someone to get diplomacy - or run around the Cay until the attack timer wears off - or hermit/pyramid/anchor.

While I'm still not really of an opinion regarding the 'fairness' of the battle, I don't think the proposed solutions really 'work' in the long run to resolve the problem(s) - nor do I really buy some of the problems (having to walk through enemy territory) are actually such big deals as they're made out to be.

Eventru

Silvanus said:

(And before someone tells me they can't be killed in one hit, you just aren't smart enough. Go around and kill things on the floor around it until you get a World-shattering hit, then walk into the room and damageshift to that Mob. Tada! Guaranteed one hit kill).

Doesn't damage shift fade after a couple seconds?

Ssaliss

I think it was extended to 20 or so seconds. I don't have it though, but I remember a changelog about it.

Silvanus

My dream scenario of changing that will never happen

1. Remove all critical hit chances Ladantine and Lanikai

2. Changes to Cay:

   Make Cay enemy territory to Kelpies/Inner Sea

   Make crabs, otters and water elementals loyal to Kelpies/Inner Sea (crabs/otters form the talisman, talisman unleashes urn, which is required to weaken 15 elementals, if there is an enemy on Cay attempting the quest, all you have to do is follow the urn around and attack whatever elemental they are influencing, and you will never, ever, complete it)

   Remove the 'Lanikai always dead' from the pro-Magnagoran version of Cay

   Remove the kill dolphin/seawolf turns to mist, and instead give it a chance to give you a corpse or turn to mist if its set to one side

   Move the entire Magnagoran side of the quest to Spectre Isle

3. The New quest on Spectre Isle:

    Make crabs/otters/water elemental equivalents on spectre isle be loyal to ladantine

   Require Magnagora to weaken 50 spectres to empower the talisman (celest weakens 50 spheres*) - this is the only way you can disrupt either side in this scenario without being in enemy territory,. In Cay's current state, you have more then one reset time to get to empower the talisman, so you should be able to get it. *Make the spheres on Cay killable, comparable to Spectres, but won't get you enemy status

    Allow both quests to be in the process at the same time, a race to whomever completes it first before it resets. So, someone can be on Cay doing the quest while I'm on Spectre doing the quest, if I finish before them, their progress stops and the quest can't be completed until it resets.

What does this do?

It won't be so easy to kill Ladantine/Lanikai. Nor will Lanikai always be dead, so Celest can complete their other parts of the epic quest.

You won't have to go into enemy territory except for A. To raise Marilynth/Ladantine, or B. To disrupt the other side's quest

If you do disrupt the quest, you will actually be in enemy territory, and won't get to use avenger for protection - unless you kill spectres/spheres, but still leaves the person a chance to complete the quest (there's 60 starfish/spheres, you need 50, you have more then one reset time with the talisman to complete it). So in the scenario where Unicron is moving an Urn around the beach and I'm following him around attacking elementals, that'd become enemy territory for me by killing elementals. If I try to empower the elementals to avoid enemy status, we can get into a debate/divert fight.

Even if you lose Cay/New Quest, you can still have a chance to turn in seawolves/dolphins, moving the focus of the Sea Battle to the actual Seas and protecting dolphins/seawolves, and away from Cay.

Gives Magnagora its own quest not in enemy territory, in a pretty comparable distance of Celest:Cay::Magnagora:Spectre

I know conflict quests are fun and all and make things go around, but when its a conflict quest that is fought over 6 oysters/6 pieces/15 elementals, and leaves you 0 chance of completing it if someone is around to disrupt you, it just tends to be tediously frustrating. This moves this conflict quest from fighting over the same quest pieces to fighting over protecting your own 'territory.' 

Malayn

Just a note, you can get to spectre isle with no ill effects without needing have gone there before.

Cubix/Torus/Medallions have a direct exit to spectre isle, even I cannot get to Cay without passing the Inner Sea.

Llandros

Eventru said:

Llandros said:

Bla.

Blarg.

All I said was that I was curious.

Periodically invincible dolphins balanced by hard to make turtles seems to be the answer.

Your Cay/Spectre Island is the real terrible comparison since I've never heard of anyone being enemied to cay while you could be on spectre island and be in actual enemy territory. Not to mention I wasn't even comparing the two.

I was just pointing out that spectre Isle is not inherently enemy territory and many people who are enemmied to mag can and do hang out and quest there.