What a Tangled Skein: Feedback

Shaddus

I'm wondering what everyone thinks of this month's quest, with the threads and the tangles. Be honest and give feedback.

Bairloch

So far I've only had one interaction. Killed some tangles. Got the notification that I was done for the day. Was pretty non-interactive.
I preferred last month where there was the hunt and then the delivery. Felt more... active.
Also, I got terrible results from my presents when I bought the little package from the site. Not saying that needs to change, just venting.

Ayisdra

When it first started, tangles gave no message about being kill-immune, this I think was a horrible idea ( I spent 15-20mins attacking, thinking the 'hard to fight alone' bit meant that it just had a huge healthpool once I saw it wasn't attacking back.). So the quick change to give a message that you are doing something wrong was a great thing.

On the quest itself:  I'm not sure about others, but it has only been a day and I'm already over fighting the things beyond the 2 need for the quest. With it being crit-immune, it takes me about 2 mins to kill a tangle (using just mage staff at 100% electric with a 10 electric buff).

On the Plot: The whole quest only requiring 2 tangles to be killed (and just having to be with a group at that...) along with how fast they grow makes it seem like it is railroading into the whole basin being covered and that we are not actually meant to keep things cleared. It feels like the plot is meant to be progress towards a total takeover from people not being around (/not killing things beyond the 2).

Perhaps I'm just impatient, but events like this that take at least a month to progress just makes me lose interest quickly in trying to stop something that you probably can't even stop. This going back to most world events being mostly linear. Like with the bouncing balls - nothing really happen with that (yet). Sure some mining villages got sold bombs that supposedly increased production (not sure it mechanically did anything.), but that's it. We haven't even heard/seen the villages using bombs since then like we did when they first got them.

I think if we saw something happen because of our clearing (or lack there of) every few days(or week at most), it would feel more like we were progressing towards something. But at the same time, even if players killed every sinker and tangle in the Basin, it very much already feels like the end plot point is that tangles cover the Basin and something else happens regardless, that we can't stop this truly invasion because the plot requires it to happen.

Luce

I may be straight up locked out of getting 21 completions this month if it can't be done alone. I have limited play time, which seems to generally coincide with a huge lull in the game to the point that I'm only rarely online at the same time as other people in Hallifax on my work nights. Like, I can count the number of times my CW indicated more than 0 off-plane last month on one hand.

Jolanthe

The threads don't hit back at all, it's the sinkers that blow up and explode. That said, if you're doing it alone, it's still tedious and takes a while to wail the threads down.

Estarra

FYI, thread growth has slowed down so it shouldn't be as hard to break them apart. If it appears unreasonable to do this quest 21 days in a row, we'll look further into it -- but it helps working in groups (just saying!).

Shaddus

I'm not a fan of this event any more than I was when we had the event where people puked up crystals and said crystals put you to sleep and drained your mana when you entered the room. I feel like this one mirrors that one somewhat.

I've cleared away plots of threads/sinkers on a handful of characters. The thing that irks me is that the quest itself is geared to where you only have to kill two threads a weave. Anyone who actually plays their character(s) and doesn't just "log in, do task, log out" isn't going to just kill two threads. They're going to have to actively police their home, police the roads around the home, hope for others to help them, run around and chase the edges of threads, and so on. And really, I don't feel like players should be obligated to do a daily quest/task just to keep the status quo (see: the now defunct Serenguard quest to keep up the Magnolia Lock).


While I know the admin put time and effort into this quest, I don't feel like they thought ahead. What about orgs with low populations, where they often don't have people logged in at all for hours and hours? Why doesn't each org have some kind of alert when a sinker hits, if even just in the log? Why don't sinkers give a warning before they blow, allowing midbies to escape an almost certain deathblow? Why do threads grow and extend when they're actively being hit with an axe/fire/whatever your attack is, thus making you chase it down, destroy -that- thread, then come back and keep working on your original thread?

Also, why did nobody react to my Pern reference in Tweets?

Luce

Okay, seems like it's possible, just a little tedious to do these solo. Beasts apparently help. That said, I'm pretty sure that between the low population at the moment and the layout, Hallifax may be in trouble.

Maligorn

Because there are cities with low population, I feel like things like NEXUS DEFOLIATE should work on these and that'll help cull them in cities without players feeling the need to make this a chore instead of an opt-in opportunity. Similarly, the discretionary RAIN in communes (since it's the analog) should do the same.

Versalean

I'm pretty sure that, whatever your faction, you'll be able to find somebody who needs 'help' to deal with their threads problem if you have even the most basic social skills and a fully-functional keyboard. This is a wondercrystal on a plate. As Lusternia's resident whiner, I cannot find one thing to whine about on this part of the promo.

Everiine

I dislike mixing mandatory-participation events and what are supposed to be optional monthly promotions (mandatory because -someone- has to keep killing the threads or the entire area gets overrun and we all "lose").

Xenthos

I've been solo-wiping the sinkers in Glomdoring, Gaudiguch, and Celest.  The ones in Gaudiguch and Celest seem to spread far slower than the ones in Glomdoring.  In the time a Glom-sinker takes to spread maybe 20 rooms, the Celest one spread three rooms and Gaudy's spread 0.

(I have them on a schedule where they all seem to repop at around the same time now)

I don't really understand the difference in killing time, I'm taking out tangles in <20 seconds.  So it's pretty feasible for me to do it without feeling like I am grinding 'too much'.

Luce

I would honestly not be a bit surprised to find out it was a number of hits thing and not a set amount of health to each vine. Or to find out that growth was checked at each exit when a growth tick happened, as that might account for Celest and Gaudiguch having very little spread while Hallifax, Glom, etc. have a lot of it.

Estarra

We'll look into making the quest easier/less onerous--but fyi, this is also an important RP event that would happen with our without a daily quest ... and that's all I'll say!

Xenthos

Luce said:

I would honestly not be a bit surprised to find out it was a number of hits thing and not a set amount of health to each vine. Or to find out that growth was checked at each exit when a growth tick happened, as that might account for Celest and Gaudiguch having very little spread while Hallifax, Glom, etc. have a lot of it.

I just get 1 hit (wonderwand) + an attack on beast balance, so that doesn't seem to be it.  I thought it was just wonderwand damage, but Crek was getting 2 minute times using a wonderwand tuned to fire too, so I am just confused.

Maybe they have 'armour' that reduces damage taken (with a floor minimum amount), so if you do a lot over that they fall quickly but if not you just are stuck grinding away?  I don't know that I've ever run into a Lusternian NPC using that mechanic though.

Luce

Dunno. I appreciate that for the most part if you get one nearly dead and have to come back to it, it's probably gonna die in one hit. I need to scrounge up more electric buffs to see if they fall over faster.

Estarra

Okay guys, we've dramatically reduced how often threads will appear in player orgs so once you clear them you won't have to worry about "constant upkeep" of threads in your orgs. This means for the daily quest, you may have to find the wild threads outside of cities. Also, I'm a little nonplussed with some of the comments, like it would defeat the purpose if there was an area mote when they appear, and also there's an easy way to avoid an explosion but we're not going to spell it out for you--this is an event after all so you need to do the legwork yourselves!

Shaddus

Versalean said:

As Lusternia's resident whiner

U wot m8?



I can't lie, the wondercrystal reward does temper my irritation a bit.

Moi

My worry with the quest is actually the opposite from most - people doing TOO good of a job clearing the sinkers (for entirely valid RP reasons), and leaving none left for anyone else to do their daily quest. I haven't seen this happen yet, but it seems like a thing that could easily happen.

Xenthos

Moi said:

My worry with the quest is actually the opposite from most - people doing TOO good of a job clearing the sinkers (for entirely valid RP reasons), and leaving none left for anyone else to do their daily quest. I haven't seen this happen yet, but it seems like a thing that could easily happen.

I've actually had the same concern, it's why I've been limiting myself to only purging the stuff in player orgs that aren't likely to protest my presence.

Everiine

Estarra said:

We'll look into making the quest easier/less onerous--but fyi, this is also an important RP event that would happen with our without a daily quest ... and that's all I'll say!

Please don't mix the two in the future--that's exactly my complaint.

Enya

The thing for me is that this is fires/vines come back with plot armor.

The game went through years and years of [forests] pointing out that spreading fire mechanics were obnoxious to no avail. Then, finally someone heard this... and created the spreading vines mechanic so that everyone could experience the troll fires phenomenon.  Then there was exhaustive and exhausting back and forth changes and patches to try and jam the mechanic into the game one way or another until it finally just went away for being miserable. And now it's back with plot armor for an entire month during which there's nothing to be done but scramble to keep the threads out of your important RP areas (or just ignore them).

What's the daily gonna be next month, totem carving come back with npcs who try and sneak into your org to chop down bits of each org's nexus? Just not sure why these lessons get unlearned.

Estarra

Everiine said:

Estarra said:

We'll look into making the quest easier/less onerous--but fyi, this is also an important RP event that would happen with our without a daily quest ... and that's all I'll say!

Please don't mix the two in the future--that's exactly my complaint.

Hate to break it to you, but last month's quest was the exact same thing!

Xenthos

I just want to know why there is such a huge difference in killing the things.  If everyone was able to kill them at the speed I can I can't imagine there would be anywhere near as big a deal about the thing, especially with them not spawning in orgs any more (at least once that one in Hallifax gets cleared out, if it ever does).

I just haven't been having an issue dropping them pretty quickly, even when they've spread out, but I'm also not taking 2 minutes per room...

Dys

I kill them in about ten blows with a wonderwand tuned to fire.

I like this quest better than the last one. The balls were fun and sometimes really easy but I often seemed to log in after they'd all decayed so ended up with 18 days done. This one I should be able to complete any time.

Mixing the daily quest with the ongoing storyline is neat. Wondercrystal reward is awesome.

Xiran

It takes a lot of blows solo with moonfire (50% fire). Did a round with Haghan though, who showed that even if you beat on a non-terminal end, if they don't go to sleep (and wake up refreshed) after you get the warning message, then you can come back and one-shot them. Useful for taking out a chain of rooms.

The threads are really strong though, so some people don't want to deal with them if they've hit their quota or they're not in the org area. This feels like a break in roleplay immersion and makes it hard to get a group together on these things.

I'm not saying they should grind through something unfun. These things are strong and their growth rate can be troublesome. It feels like the problem is worse the bigger a tangle already is (or how many potential new endpoints it's adjacent to).

Tempted to roleplay using them as a conduit to take over the Basin or something. Edit: Or try setting them on fire when outside forested areas. Xiran IG does not like fire (see Enyalida's post on troll fires) and is not at that point yet, but it's getting close.

Deichtine

I like the sinker and tangle thing.

I did get pissed off at it when it got stuck into the stock rooms but it was late and I was tired and cranky anyway.

The ball quest I didnt do because I just didnt find pick stuff up that fun but this one feels a bit more engaging. To each their own, not every quest is going to be enjoyable for everyone.

Everiine

Estarra said:

Everiine said:

Estarra said:

We'll look into making the quest easier/less onerous--but fyi, this is also an important RP event that would happen with our without a daily quest ... and that's all I'll say!

Please don't mix the two in the future--that's exactly my complaint.

Hate to break it to you, but last month's quest was the exact same thing!

Last event, balls bounced by, and if you chose to catch them, great. If not, great.

This one had a denizen actively warning us about them, they're everywhere, and the implication is they are harmful and therefore not optional.

Optional monthly promos tied to RP events = fine. This doesn't feel that way to me.

Enya

Deichtine said:

I like the sinker and tangle thing.

I did get pissed off at it when it got stuck into the stock rooms but it was late and I was tired and cranky anyway.

The ball quest I didnt do because I just didnt find pick stuff up that fun but this one feels a bit more engaging. To each their own, not every quest is going to be enjoyable for everyone.

Not every quest demands the engagement of every player for a whole month. In fact, none but this one?

Tenaka

No quest demands the engagement of every player for a whole month.

Not even this one.

Jolanthe

I liked the balls better. They often came bouncing right to me when I needed them, and they were cute and fun. The threads feel like more of a chore, so I'm thankful the only real penalty for ignoring them is a cow-style bump effect.