This is a review of current artifact/curio problems. The people calling for scent to be changed have yet to explain why it is a problem? How does scent hurt the game? Why do we need to change scent?
We went though the reasons for it a fair bit. Not sure what your asking?
Why do you think scent needs removed or changed?
Oh sorry I thought we'd covered that.
To sort of summarise the past posts then it gives instant tracking to classes that don't normally have it. Classes who's main counter is to run from for a short length of time have scent and path tracking to instant walk to people. It makes chasing a press of a button. If you go back over the thread people went into it in more detail but thats the sort of tldr version.
Running is a press of the button as well.
Running has hinders and counters to make this not so. Like we talked about early vs a runner you have a lot of tools to actively hinder them while chasing.
We're not changing scent at this time, in any fashion. At this point it's devolved to a circular argument where the same person is saying that 1) it's not mandatory, you need to do groundwork and 2) It's a required artifact that everyone needs. Time to move on.
When we're reviewing artifacts, we're looking at those ones that people, in general, complain about on a regular basis. The ones that after a fight, people will say 'if it wasn't for purify' or 'if it wasn't for illusoryself, that would have gone differently.' The ones that people in general talk about when we bring up feedback threads. The ones that people think are breaking game balance.
Every time I've asked this question, I get answers I don't expect, such as scent/vital runes/ another miscellaneous artifact. Some of these things have been involved for over a decade, from a time that the population was larger and healthier, and while that doesn't mean they are balanced and fair, it also means that they didn't break the game in a way these others have.
Lastly, you all need to cool it with the condescension. We're not accomplishing anything by sniping at each other. and I mean 'you all'. Any further comments along those lines will be deleted. You can defend yourself and your position without resorting to name-calling and aggression.
If the admin think scent is a vital skill everyone should have then remove the artifact and put scent in as a common skill.
By this same reasoning, I request that cubix is put as a common skill in planar.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
then I look forward to hearing about you trading in your nose.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Rework gems of cloaking, make it simply remove your location on thirdeye. People know you are around, just don't know where.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Some other artifacts that were brought up in emails I've received that I'd like some more feedback on.
Gnomeweapons - Due to how they work, both against entourage classes and just bashing in general, they seem to be necessary to compete in Death/greathunt challenges. Some people think this is too much.
Wonderhorn Buffet - Some classes (guardians/wiccans/melders) are balanced around a long eq shield-break, this allows them to bypass that. Is that too much?
Peppermint Tiphat - Too good at escaping, should be more limited/restricted.
re: Gnomeweapon @Orael can the admin get off their butts and let us know if they'll be ingame ways to gain goop or not? Seems to me that if there are going to be ways to get goop regularly ingame then this isn't much of an issue and becomes a choice.
re: Peppermint Tiphat has a 5 minute cooldown and isn't the problem made out here.
The wonderclock needs to be adjusted in my opinion.
17. Timeslider: Allows you to dodge time as per Timeslip, and may stack with that ability if possessed (usable 5/IG month). This power may be activated through your Time Tattoo.
Pairing this with the timeslip artifact would vastly be effective at using two balances against you. This needs to be changed, maybe only used 3/IG month or even just 1/IG month, because it's pretty powerful.
20. Time Stop: Allows you to negate all damage, curing and afflictions roomwide for a total of 10 seconds per IG day. These seconds do not all need to be used at once - the power can be stopped prematurely and restarted if desired. If the full 10 seconds are used then the clock becomes cracked. Time Stop may not be activated if the clock is cracked. This power may be activated through your Time Tattoo.
This one. I took a look at this one here, and I think it needs to either shorten the amount of seconds 10 to 6 seconds or remove the stop/restarted mechanic. I'm open to suggestions on how to limit this.
You took a look at it? You mean you read about it and decided it was a problem? Or do you have an actual example of it being used and being a problem?
Putting a smiley face at the end of a condescending remark doesn't actually make it less condescending. You people need to be nicer to each other. This is supposed to be about making the game a batter place.
Do any artifacts affect ease of capturing villages? Cause I just saw in the last revolt, all five villages were captured by Gaudiguch and Glomdoring, including the two dwarf villages (who the helpfile says are hostile to each other) both being captured by the same city. This seems a bit odd to me, how do you get opposing villages so quickly?
For the mining villages there were several factors but the largest was it was in southern alliance prime time and northern alliance down time.
I ran unopposed in Rockholm, I assume my Gaudi allies ran unopposed in Southgard, Dys did some Ptoma till we went to assist (well really I just fumbled alt-F4ing myself) Dei with capturing angkrag while the majority from glom was in ixt.
Gaudi had good feelings in Rock and South cause we already owned them before. Ang capture time only affected by rock and south.
Ptoma and Ix(whatever) oppose eachother and glom had possitive feelings in ix I think, though not sure.
I know this may be a shock, but when population is so low and the game is suffering - having to go free to play, even - you don't ask the opinion of the people who are content enough to remain. You ask the opinion of people who left to provide input so you can improve the game such that it will appeal to a wider audience again, and listen to their concerns.
...
There are other mistakes. Like you should be wary of listening to those who were never happy and constantly complained.
You should also be wary of people telling you to change your design to be like some other game that the person also does not play anymore.
One of the differences between Lusternia and some other games is that you can do more and you're less pidgeoned holed here. If Lusternia simply becomes a clone of so many other games with a different lore, I question if there's any point in playing it over all the other options.
We're not changing scent at this time, in any fashion. At this point it's devolved to a circular argument where the same person is saying that 1) it's not mandatory, you need to do groundwork and 2) It's a required artifact that everyone needs. Time to move on.
It might be worth having the discussion if the nose(s) should be credit artifacts.
When we're reviewing artifacts, we're looking at those ones that people, in general, complain about on a regular basis. The ones that after a fight, people will say 'if it wasn't for purify' or 'if it wasn't for illusoryself, that would have gone differently.' The ones that people in general talk about when we bring up feedback threads. The ones that people think are breaking game balance.
Every time I've asked this question, I get answers I don't expect, such as scent/vital runes/ another miscellaneous artifact. Some of these things have been involved for over a decade, from a time that the population was larger and healthier, and while that doesn't mean they are balanced and fair, it also means that they didn't break the game in a way these others have.
Lastly, you all need to cool it with the condescension. We're not accomplishing anything by sniping at each other. and I mean 'you all'. Any further comments along those lines will be deleted. You can defend yourself and your position without resorting to name-calling and aggression.
Let's try to address the problems we see in the context of whether or not they are problems and not based on whether the person suggesting the problem simply needs to be more positive and get good.
Re: scent, I do want to ask if the arti nose line can be customized to be removed? Even with the snobbiest of snoots, it still looks weird for a purely RP reason.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
The wonderclock needs to be adjusted in my opinion.
You took a look at it? You mean you read about it and decided it was a problem? Or do you have an actual example of it being used and being a problem?
I agree with Vatul on this one, I don't need to be using the artifact to realize the mechanic of having an extra 10 seconds of statis for no powercost, a pseudo serpent effect that has no counterplay such as being punished by powerspikes or timed-instakills to relieve all targeting pressure off yourself while throwing the momentum of combat off is quite potent. I'd rather not see this effect in the game altogether, I think there're enough "stalling while your teammates do the work" options coded-in already.
Edit: I will also concede, I do not know that wonderitem's exact definition or full potential are. Never got to test one. I think it's a bit unclear that if you can maintain an offense while having the defensive benefits? If that's possible as well, then yes, it's a "tiny" bit overtuned.
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
Edit: I will also concede, I do not know that wonderitem's exact definition or full potential are. Never got to test one. I think it's a bit unclear that if you can maintain an offense while having the defensive benefits? If that's possible as well, then yes, it's a "tiny" bit overtuned.
It says roomwide right in the description. It pauses everything. So what exactly is the issue you see with it?
@Steingrim Melder casts Cyclone/Inferno/Fury etc - wait till second 10, activate clock for 3 seconds until mage insta passes. Mage now has 0 power and didn't do anything to your entire team.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
@Steingrim Melder casts Cyclone/Inferno/Fury etc - wait till second 10, activate clock for 3 seconds until mage insta passes. Mage now has 0 power and didn't do anything to your entire team.
I'm gonna be honest, this just sounds like a good tactic.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
@Steingrim Melder casts Cyclone/Inferno/Fury etc - wait till second 10, activate clock for 3 seconds until mage insta passes. Mage now has 0 power and didn't do anything to your entire team.
1 power. I think it is best for items that have been around awhile to actually show they are a problem. I'm trying to thing of the last time I saw a group die to a meld bomb without taking additional damage...help me out?
Just because you have a Taric ult and use it at the right time, that doesn't make it OP.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
#LoLreference Just because you have a Taric ult and use it at the right time, that doesn't make it OP.
Yes, but imagine SKT having a perfectly timed Taric ult that blocks a Malphite ult and swings the full result of the teamfight and which eventually wins them the game, solely because Faker decided to buy a wonderclock from Estarra. My pet peeve is really the wonderitems, I guess. I'd rather just do without having to calculate what they could do in combat as well.
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
This would be a one time use sort of thing, I think, but you could guarantee a deathsong on a target with wonderclock. If you use all 8 seconds it's pretty much going to be a sure thing.
The wonderclock needs to be adjusted in my opinion.
You took a look at it? You mean you read about it and decided it was a problem? Or do you have an actual example of it being used and being a problem?
I agree with Vatul on this one, I don't need to be using the artifact to realize the mechanic of having an extra 10 seconds of statis for no powercost, a pseudo serpent effect that has no counterplay such as being punished by powerspikes or timed-instakills to relieve all targeting pressure off yourself while throwing the momentum of combat off is quite potent. I'd rather not see this effect in the game altogether, I think there're enough "stalling while your teammates do the work" options coded-in already.
Edit: I will also concede, I do not know that wonderitem's exact definition or full potential are. Never got to test one. I think it's a bit unclear that if you can maintain an offense while having the defensive benefits? If that's possible as well, then yes, it's a "tiny" bit overtuned.
I’m actually going simply say. That while I am not labeled as a combatant and actually work hard at combat. I know that these skills are shifty. Timeslider is verified. If I had an extra 600$ maybe I too could have my own time stop.
EDIT: Also, it goes to show that my critique and positive response to this thread is met with what appears be an attack in tone, questioning a persons validity. Not from Saz, mind you. Seems to be what happens when people bring up their concerns these days.
The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
*
A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the theatre due to the snowy weather.
*
Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold, hungering malice.
Rework gems of cloaking, make it simply remove your location on thirdeye. People know you are around, just don't know where.
I've been wanting to do something like this for awhile, but I also want gem of cloaking to be more useful than just simply remove your location from thirdeye. Ideas?
Rework gems of cloaking, make it simply remove your location on thirdeye. People know you are around, just don't know where.
I've been wanting to do something like this for awhile, but I also want gem of cloaking to be more useful than just simply remove your location from thirdeye. Ideas?
Why not make it remove your location from thirdeye, and then for some amount of time (an hour maybe?) you can toggle it to remove you from everything for all of your sneaking needs? Or at least something to that effect.
Change the artifact to 250 credits. Make it do as I suggested (block location on thirdeye). Activate it to remove you from QW/EWHO/whatever for 5-10 minutes once an hour/Lusternian day.
If you want to do sneaky things and not let people know you're around, activate it and do your deeds. Otherwise, people know you're around, just not where you are. Also makes the game seem less empty.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Change the artifact to 250 credits. Make it do as I suggested (block location on thirdeye). Activate it to remove you from QW/EWHO/whatever for 5-10 minutes once an hour/Lusternian day.
If you want to do sneaky things and not let people know you're around, activate it and do your deeds. Otherwise, people know you're around, just not where you are. Also makes the game seem less empty.
I think this is a great idea. I introduced some of my friends to the game and they loved it but didn't continue mainly because they said it felt so empty.
You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
Rework gems of cloaking, make it simply remove your location on thirdeye. People know you are around, just don't know where.
I've been wanting to do something like this for awhile, but I also want gem of cloaking to be more useful than just simply remove your location from thirdeye. Ideas?
Why not make it remove your location from thirdeye, and then for some amount of time (an hour maybe?) you can toggle it to remove you from everything for all of your sneaking needs? Or at least something to that effect.
I like this a lot. But my suggestion would be "removes location from thirdeye normally" but 1x a month you can use it to restore its original functionality for 30-60 minutes. "remove from everything" sounds too much like Veil.
Make WHO function like CWHO, people show up if they can hear your voice (regardless of planar distance).
Then make cloaking gem hide your location.
If you are in a manse, you are not displayed at all.
I think that's probably fine. This way you have more people showing up, and you can't figure out where a person with a cloaking gem is just by hopping around planes to check them all out (like going to Astral and WHOing to see all the hunters in order to get a list to scry).
If you want an option that lets you actually disable yourself entirely for a bit that's fine too, but my biggest issue with the change of who working but not showing location while remaining plane restricted is that you can use it to easily poke at an entire plane / continent (like I could see the entirety of who is in Undervault just by going one room in and WHOing, same with Astral).
Rework gems of cloaking, make it simply remove your location on thirdeye. People know you are around, just don't know where.
I've been wanting to do something like this for awhile, but I also want gem of cloaking to be more useful than just simply remove your location from thirdeye. Ideas?
Why not make it remove your location from thirdeye, and then for some amount of time (an hour maybe?) you can toggle it to remove you from everything for all of your sneaking needs? Or at least something to that effect.
I like this a lot. But my suggestion would be "removes location from thirdeye normally" but 1x a month you can use it to restore its original functionality for 30-60 minutes. "remove from everything" sounds too much like Veil.
Yeah, but we're not removing someone from scry/scent/spectacles.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
Running has hinders and counters to make this not so. Like we talked about early vs a runner you have a lot of tools to actively hinder them while chasing.
When we're reviewing artifacts, we're looking at those ones that people, in general, complain about on a regular basis. The ones that after a fight, people will say 'if it wasn't for purify' or 'if it wasn't for illusoryself, that would have gone differently.' The ones that people in general talk about when we bring up feedback threads. The ones that people think are breaking game balance.
Every time I've asked this question, I get answers I don't expect, such as scent/vital runes/ another miscellaneous artifact. Some of these things have been involved for over a decade, from a time that the population was larger and healthier, and while that doesn't mean they are balanced and fair, it also means that they didn't break the game in a way these others have.
Lastly, you all need to cool it with the condescension. We're not accomplishing anything by sniping at each other. and I mean 'you all'. Any further comments along those lines will be deleted. You can defend yourself and your position without resorting to name-calling and aggression.
Rework gems of cloaking, make it simply remove your location on thirdeye. People know you are around, just don't know where.
re: Gnomeweapon @Orael can the admin get off their butts and let us know if they'll be ingame ways to gain goop or not? Seems to me that if there are going to be ways to get goop regularly ingame then this isn't much of an issue and becomes a choice.
re: Peppermint Tiphat has a 5 minute cooldown and isn't the problem made out here.
I ran unopposed in Rockholm, I assume my Gaudi allies ran unopposed in Southgard, Dys did some Ptoma till we went to assist (well really I just fumbled alt-F4ing myself) Dei with capturing angkrag while the majority from glom was in ixt.
Gaudi had good feelings in Rock and South cause we already owned them before. Ang capture time only affected by rock and south.
Ptoma and Ix(whatever) oppose eachother and glom had possitive feelings in ix I think, though not sure.
You should also be wary of people telling you to change your design to be like some other game that the person also does not play anymore.
One of the differences between Lusternia and some other games is that you can do more and you're less pidgeoned holed here. If Lusternia simply becomes a clone of so many other games with a different lore, I question if there's any point in playing it over all the other options.
It might be worth having the discussion if the nose(s) should be credit artifacts.
The clarification helps, thank you.
https://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/comment/192276/#Comment_192276
Let's try to address the problems we see in the context of whether or not they are problems and not based on whether the person suggesting the problem simply needs to be more positive and get good.
Re: scent, I do want to ask if the arti nose line can be customized to be removed? Even with the snobbiest of snoots, it still looks weird for a purely RP reason.
I agree with Vatul on this one, I don't need to be using the artifact to realize the mechanic of having an extra 10 seconds of statis for no powercost, a pseudo serpent effect that has no counterplay such as being punished by powerspikes or timed-instakills to relieve all targeting pressure off yourself while throwing the momentum of combat off is quite potent. I'd rather not see this effect in the game altogether, I think there're enough "stalling while your teammates do the work" options coded-in already.
Edit: I will also concede, I do not know that wonderitem's exact definition or full potential are. Never got to test one. I think it's a bit unclear that if you can maintain an offense while having the defensive benefits? If that's possible as well, then yes, it's a "tiny" bit overtuned.
-Kilian
1 power. I think it is best for items that have been around awhile to actually show they are a problem. I'm trying to thing of the last time I saw a group die to a meld bomb without taking additional damage...help me out?
Just because you have a Taric ult and use it at the right time, that doesn't make it OP.
-Kilian
EDIT: Also, it goes to show that my critique and positive response to this thread is met with what appears be an attack in tone, questioning a persons validity. Not from Saz, mind you. Seems to be what happens when people bring up their concerns these days.
theatre due to the snowy weather.
hungering malice.
If you want to do sneaky things and not let people know you're around, activate it and do your deeds. Otherwise, people know you're around, just not where you are. Also makes the game seem less empty.
That'd do enough for me.