Crucible Curios! (also commodity/salt discussion)

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  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,016 Transcendent
    • Sugar to break down aethercandy
    • Salt to break down aetherbuttons
    • Sulfur for aetherscarves
    • Mercury for aetherspheres

    Mercury is fairly rare atm. I generate just enough to make quicksilver for the shops. It'll have the same issue as salt in being super rare if it have a big use now.

  • KaliKali Member Posts: 68 Adept
    edited April 26
    I don't know if someone brought it up already, but could the first commodity quest done each month have a chance to give a curio piece, sort of like how it is with trade curios? It doesn't have to be a huge chance, but enough to let people who aren't flooded with credits slowly build a set/participate in curio trading!
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 413 Adept
    I had the same thought, never put it to words though. Could even make it the first commodity quest done for each village.
  • TridemonTridemon Member Posts: 688 Fabled
    I don't think there's going to be a big demand for mercury to break down aetherspheres, frankly.
    I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 413 Adept
    If we have to go this route of individual goop items having a different commodity perhaps we can use:

    Salt for Aethercandy
    Spices for Aetherbuttons
    Sulfur for Aetherscarves
    Sugar for Aetherspheres

    I'd rather we didn't use sugar or mercury, but I know how to compromise.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    What is the actual goal of linking these comms?

    Not, "salt is being drained to nothing so we need to change that" but like... is the goal to sink some of these comms out of the game. Because yeah, one of the questions from the previous thread asked is whether or not the comm tax is needed at all.

    Estarra said:
    Sorry, just not following the logic that it’s a goop item that generates more goop or will make other comms scarce. Think we’ll just not see eye to eye on that
    Right...

    • Bob goes out and generates a bunch of stuff to give to the aethertraders.
    • He's got his large stores of goop and buys crucicble packs til he gets all the ones he need
    • Now he starts burning 250 comms/crucible per month to gain 50 of the comm he actually wants (assuming the limiter is on generated comm count)
    • He burns to get cheap x to breakdown more goop items, letting him get more goop more cheaply
    • There isn't a specific mention of it not working, so he's liable to use the goop he generates to generate more crucibles until he can generate enough comms each month to breakdown all his unwanted goop stuff.
    • At this point, Bob is potentially wiping hundreds to thousands of the cheapest comms for his crucibles, if not more, out every day. 
    • Maybe Bob won't always need to burn comms because he can buy the one's he wants off the market, but in this context, a comm like salt could have a value equal to 50 of the other comms that can be converted into it.

    This seems pretty in-line with previous issues, arguably the curio pieces would have a higher value on the market as well because they help you convert more goop items into goop.
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  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 413 Adept
    You want a May promo? Please not this, just have another genie run, it'll go over well. Lots of new-ish characters have come into the game and they have zero method of obtaining these things, outside of generosity of other players. Yes the wheel could technically give them pieces, but that is so beyond rare.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    Also, it's been repeatedly pointed out but meaningful fixes to the economy could open the door to a plethora of new promo items and regular artefacts that interact with the systems you'd put in place.
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  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,073 Creator
    I still don't believe the theory that crucibles will become a goop generating disaster because (1) aethertraders are purposefully limited, there are only so many possible trades that can be made (i.e., it's not an endless spigot of trades), (2) when timequakes come online, aethertraders will likely be used to trade anomalies as well so their services for aethercrafts will be even more rare, (3) even with the past adjustments, the comm surplus still increases almost daily so the fear that this will result in any sort of comm shortage is overblown. I still think these will be nice artifacts for crafters who need to adjust some of their comm stores for these specific basic commodities. That said, I'll look at changing the types of residue comms needed per aethercraft and consider making these credits instead of goop.
    @Saran and @Makai, if you are interested in what you believe are "meaningful fixes" to the economy, and I know it's been discussed ad nauseum before, but we're getting to the point where the tweaks I'm doing are almost done (i.e., I want to see what happens when timequakes come out), so I'd like to hear proposals on what systems you believe may actually help the economy. If you or anyone has an idea, I'll start a new thread for proposals, but keep in mind I'm a little leary on farming mechanics becaues I've seen what that's done in other games.
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  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 394 Expert
    The profit to be made for individuals may well mean that there is no opportunity to trade anomalies if it is just one trade.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 413 Adept
    Good, they went to 2:1 that should help a bit. Just waiting for them to be available in the site, as it is still coins.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 413 Adept
    Update, I bought 200 pieces and they were thoroughly spread out, plenty of rares to boot. I completed 10 curios out of the 200 pieces, that's not bad at all!
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 536 Fabled
    Reminder that complete gacha is currently illegal in the country of origin.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 413 Adept
    This has nothing to do with gacha. You know what you're getting and being told the price you're paying for it.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,611 Transcendent
    And all the curio pieces are of equal value, and can be traded with other people to complete your sets.
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    Yes... that is how it should work when you buy so many packs particularly when there's only four options.

    Also seems like there needs to be some clarity on what f2p actually means given one of the things that was announced with Imperian is that the IRE f2p model included not having to pump out new promo items with a specific note about that dev time being used elsewhere.
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,611 Transcendent
    Saran said:
    Yes... that is how it should work when you buy so many packs particularly when there's only four options.

    Also seems like there needs to be some clarity on what f2p actually means given one of the things that was announced with Imperian is that the IRE f2p model included not having to pump out new promo items with a specific note about that dev time being used elsewhere.
    I mean, this thread already explains that second paragraph?  It was something that Estarra could throw together easily, it didn't take any dev time off of any other projects, and it's attempting to address a concern people have been coming up with (it can be debated whether it's effective or not, but, it's at least an attempt to do something).
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  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 536 Fabled
    You're paying money for random pulls from a collection, some of which are (presumably, given the name rare pieces) rarer than others. How exactly is that not gacha?
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    Xenthos said:
    Saran said:
    Yes... that is how it should work when you buy so many packs particularly when there's only four options.

    Also seems like there needs to be some clarity on what f2p actually means given one of the things that was announced with Imperian is that the IRE f2p model included not having to pump out new promo items with a specific note about that dev time being used elsewhere.
    I mean, this thread already explains that second paragraph?  It was something that Estarra could throw together easily, it didn't take any dev time off of any other projects, and it's attempting to address a concern people have been coming up with (it can be debated whether it's effective or not, but, it's at least an attempt to do something).

    You could have also just dropped them in as a new artifact and skipped the whole promotion aspect. 

    Also this 

    "It's not meant to be a fix to anything or a bandaid to solve any particular problem, but rather a convenience to players, especially crafters, who want to invest in these curios."

    Can pretty easily read as acknowledging there is an issue and ultimately trying to profit off of it with a promo item with a disclaimer that it's not meant to actually resolve the players concerns.
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    Kalnid said:
    You're paying money for random pulls from a collection, some of which are (presumably, given the name rare pieces) rarer than others. How exactly is that not gacha?
    Might be box rather than kompu?
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,611 Transcendent
    If you don't want to buy them, don't!  They can be attained without paying a dime.  You can get it with goop next month, and you can earn goop in ways that don't give them a profit.  I'm debating whether to buy some or just wait to use goop, for example.
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  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 536 Fabled
    Saran said:
    Might be box rather than kompu?
    You're completing sets, so it's inherently kompu. It /could/ be box-based on top with just duplicates of common pieces but I'd be shocked if each curio wasn't just randomly decided on opening.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 413 Adept
    Kalnid said:
    You're paying money for random pulls from a collection, some of which are (presumably, given the name rare pieces) rarer than others. How exactly is that not gacha?
    Most gatcha games pull from the -entirety- of what is available. This is you selecting the exact set you're wanting and it giving an even distribution. We can argue all day, but you're at least getting to limit what you're obtaining, versus absolutely everything that makes those games what they are. Even though they're called 'rare' pieces, they really aren't rare, a better way to describe them would be 'core' piece if anything.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,611 Transcendent
    Kalnid said:
    You're paying money for random pulls from a collection, some of which are (presumably, given the name rare pieces) rarer than others. How exactly is that not gacha?
    "Rare" in curios is a misnomer for everything but questing curios imo.  You're guaranteed to get a certain number of "rare" pieces on packs greater than 5 curios.  They do tend to be pretty rare to receive in the questing environs, but packs are much fairer.  I've always ended up with enough rares from packs to trade and complete what I'm working on.
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  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 536 Fabled
    Xenthos said:

    You're guaranteed to get a certain number of "rare" pieces on packs greater than 5 curios.
    Are you? The website doesn't mention it and I've never bought packs, but that would be neat if so. Wouldn't make it not complete gacha, but would help, along with the ways trading and rerolling pieces work.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,611 Transcendent
    edited May 1
    Kalnid said:
    Xenthos said:

    You're guaranteed to get a certain number of "rare" pieces on packs greater than 5 curios.
    Are you? The website doesn't mention it and I've never bought packs, but that would be neat if so. Wouldn't make it not complete gacha, but would help, along with the ways trading and rerolling pieces work.
    Yep.  Ikon packs work the same way.  You'll always get an eternal ikon from packs over a certain size (note: not legendary, but Eternal group, which are the empowered/stronger ones).
    Edit: I think it would be useful if this was stated somewhere, I have to agree.
    Edit 2: Also, you just need 1 "rare" piece per set and 9 "commons," so combine a minimum guaranteed # of rares with that and you're in pretty good shape.
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    I thought box gacha is differentiated because of this guaranteed chance different rarities not the compilation mechanic? (cause you can estimate if you buy x boxes you should get the thing you're looking for)
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,611 Transcendent
    Saran said:
    I thought box gacha is differentiated because of this guaranteed chance different rarities not the compilation mechanic? (cause you can estimate if you buy x boxes you should get the thing you're looking for)
    Here is how I do curio completion:
    I buy a pack of curios that is as close to the total number I need as possible (on the upper end).  So if a set takes 40 pieces to complete, I'll buy a 50-pack.
    I am then guaranteed to complete them all by trading my duplicate pieces to other people, helping them complete theirs in order to complete my own.  I do my best to not over-buy because then I don't have a ton of extra pieces hanging out afterwards.  I've managed to succeed in every curio promo so far with this strategy.  It works pretty well.  And almost all of them were before the curio market, which just makes it even easier.
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  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 536 Fabled
    Box refers to a set which removes objects as you pull them until it has no outcomes remaining, after which either you can't pull more or it resets. If you're pulling from ten pieces and pull ten times, you'll always and only get those exact pieces once each. In theory you could have that method on top of kompu, but I've never seen it done.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    Xenthos said:
    Saran said:
    I thought box gacha is differentiated because of this guaranteed chance different rarities not the compilation mechanic? (cause you can estimate if you buy x boxes you should get the thing you're looking for)
    Here is how I do curio completion:
    I buy a pack of curios that is as close to the total number I need as possible (on the upper end).  So if a set takes 40 pieces to complete, I'll buy a 50-pack.
    I am then guaranteed to complete them all by trading my duplicate pieces to other people, helping them complete theirs in order to complete my own.  I do my best to not over-buy because then I don't have a ton of extra pieces hanging out afterwards.  I've managed to succeed in every curio promo so far with this strategy.  It works pretty well.  And almost all of them were before the curio market, which just makes it even easier.
    How people use a system is less relevant than the mechanisms of the system itself for what Kalnid seems to be talking about, if the system is aligned with kompu gacha then that's a mechanism which is apparently illegal in Japan at least. People also traded Gacha stuff from what I can see for example.
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