Should Lusternia bring back Bardics and Artisinals?

VatulVatul Member Posts: 209 Gifted
How do we feel about bringing back a lucrative way for players to be creative with the world of Lusternia? Share your thoughts.
The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
*
A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the
theatre due to the snowy weather.
*
Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold,
hungering malice.
*
Resplendent shimmers reflect brightly off the ground, reflecting serpentine spirals of viridian gold
in every direction.

Should Lusternia bring back Bardics and Artisinals? 26 votes

Heck yeah
88%
PortiusAyisdraEveriineSaranCrekIrilliaAlaksanteriSynlCiaranNelrasMaligornSylandraVatulCoralineChorosGabeGurashiTraheyAlexandriaDrastrath 23 votes
Yes, but I have some suggestions (post)
7%
XenthosDaraius 2 votes
No
0%
No, and here's why (post)
3%
Makai 1 vote
«1

Comments

  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,110 Mythical
    Heck yeah
    While I did vote yes, I feel that with dailycredits that we probably won't see them back sadly.
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,351 Transcendent
    edited June 12
    Yes, but I have some suggestions (post)
    The Bardics and Artisanals offered a venue for players to celebrate Lusternia in way they couldn't necessarily do in-game, and in turn it let Lusternia celebrate players by putting their work up for display. I'd bring them back with vastly lowered credit rewards (since daily/org credits are quite generous and seem to be doing a pretty good job at encouraging engagement with different areas of the game) and vastly lower pressure for admin to judge them. Heck, even if it was just a moderately curated fanart/fic gallery, that'd be cool.

    Also I would like to specifically bring back my own single entry to the artisanals because I can't find it anywhere online or in my archives.  :'(
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 316 Capable
    No, and here's why (post)
    I'm not against them coming back, but I also don't see them making a return. Instead, I'd like to maybe suggest that Lusternia instead 'award' commissions to spice up the website's art. Considering the racial art, city art, etc has been there -since- the beginning...could use some love. Or artwork of a skillset to use on the wiki that is being attended to and being kept up to date! Reward their creativity there with a 'payment' of sorts rather than bringing back the competition. I liked the competitions, but it really kind of felt like most people were submitting for monthly gains rather than the love of the art (not all).

    Instead, have organizations actually reward people for writing books and plays and stimulate Bardics that way. Could even source some of the writing for the website as kind of a direct link to the book, if someone writes an epic or somesuch. You get my drift hopefully.
  • VatulVatul Member Posts: 209 Gifted
    Heck yeah
    Makai said:
    I'm not against them coming back, but I also don't see them making a return. Instead, I'd like to maybe suggest that Lusternia instead 'award' commissions to spice up the website's art. Considering the racial art, city art, etc has been there -since- the beginning...could use some love. Or artwork of a skillset to use on the wiki that is being attended to and being kept up to date! Reward their creativity there with a 'payment' of sorts rather than bringing back the competition. I liked the competitions, but it really kind of felt like most people were submitting for monthly gains rather than the love of the art (not all).

    Instead, have organizations actually reward people for writing books and plays and stimulate Bardics that way. Could even source some of the writing for the website as kind of a direct link to the book, if someone writes an epic or somesuch. You get my drift hopefully.
    A really cool suggestion. Maybe it could be something that could be done as payment, but only have people opt in for competition if they want?
    The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
    *
    A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the
    theatre due to the snowy weather.
    *
    Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold,
    hungering malice.
    *
    Resplendent shimmers reflect brightly off the ground, reflecting serpentine spirals of viridian gold
    in every direction.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,581 Transcendent
    Yes, but I have some suggestions (post)
    The "official reason" that it hasn't happened is that there is disagreement on how to handle Bardics.  See: This post.
    My idea: Bring back artisanals right now since the work was already done on them.  Then bring back Bardics the way they used to be, don't worry about the new format.  Let them remain the way they were.

    image
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,158 Transcendent
    Heck yeah
    It's been mentioned before that it's something mechanical with the new website, which doesn't make that much sense.

    Looking over the stuff running on the website (chrome plugins are really diverse), I'm not super sure what would make bardics complicated, they should actually be (slightly) easier than artisanals, and the stuff that would be nice to have is applicable to both so wouldn't make one harder than the other.

    Unless it's processes or extra requirements beyond... "players need to be able to submit a form with their entry." and the other comments are inaccurate.
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  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 357 Expert
    I think Org Credits cover bardics now (obviously if cities choose to pay them)

    I would like to see it back for artisanal though. There is no way to emulate that IG 
  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,504 Transcendent
    Heck yeah
    Credits aside, bardics also had their own title progression on honors. The library technically also has that, but it is much easier to cap out the library's version. Bardics credits also help to equalize orgs a little, in that some are much more willing to shell out credits for library things than others. They also have the advantage of being OOC, which allows people who alt to funnel all of their books onto one character for bardics to consolidate credits and makes it possible to submit books that would otherwise be off the table for RP reasons, for the people who care about that part.

    Overall I'd be intensely annoyed if artisanals showed up and bardics got dumped.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,581 Transcendent
    Yes, but I have some suggestions (post)
    The problem with the OOC thing is that the formatting change being discussed was to make them not OOC... which makes no sense to me.  Why would you ever do that?  But until that gets sorted out, do not hold the art end up eternally.  Release the art end, decide not to make Bardics tied to an IC persona, and then release the Bardic end the moment you decide that the old way worked perfectly fine the way it was.
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  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,351 Transcendent
    Yes, but I have some suggestions (post)
    That’s bonkers. Is the case in favor of IC Bardics readable anywhere, or did you learn about it privately? I’m curious to see how that position got any air at all.  :/
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,158 Transcendent
    edited June 13
    Heck yeah
    Daraius said:
    That’s bonkers. Is the case in favor of IC Bardics readable anywhere, or did you learn about it privately? I’m curious to see how that position got any air at all.  :/
    It really just seems much simpler to just say bardics aren't IC but the player is allowed to submit their entries via the library system afterwards if they want to.
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  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,329 Mythical
    Honestly this shouldn't even be a question

  • VatulVatul Member Posts: 209 Gifted
    Heck yeah
    Arix said:
    Honestly this shouldn't even be a question

    Questions bring awareness back to things that need to be revisited!
    The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
    *
    A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the
    theatre due to the snowy weather.
    *
    Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold,
    hungering malice.
    *
    Resplendent shimmers reflect brightly off the ground, reflecting serpentine spirals of viridian gold
    in every direction.
  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 357 Expert
    Portius said:
    Credits aside, bardics also had their own title progression on honors. The library technically also has that, but it is much easier to cap out the library's version. Bardics credits also help to equalize orgs a little, in that some are much more willing to shell out credits for library things than others. 

    I think if the game are giving out 9000 free credits a month to cities and cities decide not to shell out credits for library things, is that not player power voting for things they would rather reward?  Does make you wonder what they are spending them on!
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,581 Transcendent
    Yes, but I have some suggestions (post)
    9000?  1000 + 900 + 800 + 700 + 600 + 500 does not seem to come to that total.  Am I forgetting another huge source of credits that matches orgcredit totals?
    image
  • CoralineCoraline Member Posts: 308 Adept
    Heck yeah
    That's for one year or 12 days. If you divide it by 12 and multiply it by 30 it comes out to 9000.
    2019/05/29 01:36:00 - The squad known as 'Seriously Choco-squid this time' supporting Gaudiguch generated 1 power
  • CoralineCoraline Member Posts: 308 Adept
    Heck yeah
    Kistan said:
    Portius said:
    Credits aside, bardics also had their own title progression on honors. The library technically also has that, but it is much easier to cap out the library's version. Bardics credits also help to equalize orgs a little, in that some are much more willing to shell out credits for library things than others. 

    I think if the game are giving out 9000 free credits a month to cities and cities decide not to shell out credits for library things, is that not player power voting for things they would rather reward?  Does make you wonder what they are spending them on!
    Big shout out to @Alaksanteri for being so quick and transparent in distributing and giving out credits. Really makes players in Gaudiguch feel appreciated. :heart:
    2019/05/29 01:36:00 - The squad known as 'Seriously Choco-squid this time' supporting Gaudiguch generated 1 power
  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 357 Expert
    Coraline said:
    That's for one year or 12 days. If you divide it by 12 and multiply it by 30 it comes out to 9000.

    @Coraline has pointed out the flaw in my maths!

    I was working on 2 years per month - it is actually 11,250 credits per RL month.

  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 818 Transcendent
    Kistan said:
    Portius said:
    Credits aside, bardics also had their own title progression on honors. The library technically also has that, but it is much easier to cap out the library's version. Bardics credits also help to equalize orgs a little, in that some are much more willing to shell out credits for library things than others. 

    I think if the game are giving out 9000 free credits a month to cities and cities decide not to shell out credits for library things, is that not player power voting for things they would rather reward?  Does make you wonder what they are spending them on!
    Not necessarily. We had this discussion not long ago in Hallifax, and one argument was that very few people would ever get city credits if they were heavily weighted toward library. It's not that we don't want library things, or don't value them, it's that the priority is to encourage broader participation. Bardics/Artisanals allow for a more narrow and individualistic focus.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 316 Capable
    No, and here's why (post)
    As previously stated, if they do come back, that's great as I used to participate in the Bardics quite frequently, even made a marriage proposal in one (got declined RIP). Either which way, we have methods of rewarding written works, just wish it wasn't limited to just one literary work effectively each RL month, as the two year cycle blah blah blah. My prior post stated ideas on how to reward artists for their work, assuming Lusternia as a business decides to bring this back, and if they don't, have also stated possible methods to inspire artwork to be made for the benefit of the game.

    Let's talk about IG books though, since they were often double-dipped for Bardics. Let's remove the limitation of one scholarly and one literary, and just allow for two books to be pushed each cycle. Let people go nuts and write stories rather than having to find a subject that can gather enough canon information about and not be a regurgitation of something that already exists just so they can get enough words for scholarly credit to matter. I know I personally wouldn't mind spending a good amount of time writing a long series of books, releasing a chapter each cycle, but it just doesn't seem worth it, because most Orgs are either low-balling the payout or take forever to even payout credits in some cases. So if Bardics did make a comeback, perhaps they shouldn't be something that can also be submitted to the game libraries for double-dipping, but my opinion is probably the unpopular one.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,158 Transcendent
    Heck yeah
    Bardics and the library are similar but not 100% the same thing. You can see it most clearly because of the number of players who want bardics back even though the library still exists.

    If you're just looking at them as a writing exercise then by the same logic we shouldn't have plays because they're also ultimately just a writing exercise. There's also a difference in the outcomes where you have something that's there to go up on the website vs something that's an IC activity that helps expand the world within the game.

    Double-dipping also doesn't seem like much of an issue personally if it's the original author and not someone trying to get credit for a "bardic anthology" or the like where they haven't actually written the works or got permission for them.
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  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 316 Capable
    No, and here's why (post)
    I didn't equate the two at any point, just that double dipping did happen and I'd just prefer it didn't. I full well understand they're not the same thing and that people applied to bardics despite us having a library system.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,158 Transcendent
    Heck yeah
    Makai said:
    I didn't equate the two at any point, just that double dipping did happen and I'd just prefer it didn't. I full well understand they're not the same thing and that people applied to bardics despite us having a library system.
    Makai said:
    we have methods of rewarding written works, 
    This comment is followed by two paragraphs talking about the library and how that could be reworked.
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  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 357 Expert
    Double dipping also happens with plays - I have seen a few scripts in the library after watching the play.

    I may also have been guilty of converting a book into a stage performance. Or publishing an anthology of songs, some of which would have been performed on stage.


  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,504 Transcendent
    Heck yeah
    Personally, I'm a big fan of double dipping. Or even triple. Go wild, get bardics, library, and stage with one thing. Make out like a bandit and get those sweet sweet culture credits.
    The option to double up was also extremely useful to me as librarian. Boosted the number of longer books with decent editing that people submitted. I also used it to help guide prestige submissions, since books that won bardics (and sometimes runners up, but that wasn't as solid a bet) usually also won prestige. Given that there are no published or consistent judging standards, that was usually the best guidance available for figuring out what the admin liked.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • SylandraSylandra Lurking Lady The Lost BardicsMember Posts: 4,459 Transcendent
    Heck yeah
    And on the flip side, the lack of double dipping shows how lacking the non bardic rewards can be.

    It doesn’t feel worth it sometimes to write things when you know they’ll be pending another player’s editing before their submission, then delayed full publication by the library reviewing process, possibly even rejected due to your misunderstanding scholarly guidelines or due to writing more of an OOC satire than an IC one, might not be submitted for prestige for IC years due to a surplus of submissions and/or an inactive librarian, and ultimately even if you win the contest the org gets the automatic reward, not you!

    You, the writer, may still be waiting for the long promised org reward, only to be ghosted or offered a much smaller reward than your peers in other orgs.

    Bardics reward players. The library rewards organizations. Ultimately the organization decides if they want to reward people for contributing to the library mechanic.
    Fyler said:
    Sylandra has a very signature (and somewhat twisted) sense of humor
  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 133 Capable
    Heck yeah
    I don't participate in the system at all, but see no issue with double triple dipping. People contribute to the game ooc and ic, they make the world feel more alive, they get incentivized to stick around more. All wins. 

    Seems if the form issue is resolved, bring them back.

    If the issue is time for judging, unsure how to resolve that. How hard is it to judge anyways? How many submissions are you even getting?
  • CoralineCoraline Member Posts: 308 Adept
    Heck yeah
    Also for judging, maybe you can hire mortal reviewers, like with designing?
    2019/05/29 01:36:00 - The squad known as 'Seriously Choco-squid this time' supporting Gaudiguch generated 1 power
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