Oldhammer Mafia!

Coraline

Hmm it seems Arix was saying the truth that he was Peasant, but he was not a twin role, but a Survivor one?

And also, all town roles are Imperial. If Carakhan is Beggar, and Beggar doesn't sound very Imperial..


Could he be a Survivor role as well?

Carakhan

Just because I'm a very poor subject of the Empire of Man, doesn't mean I'm not loyal. Also, two survivors seems highly unlikely in a seven person game. The presence of just one survivor makes me think there's a slight possibility of there just being one scum, rather than two, but I'm not sure.

I'm most inclined to distrust Coraline, for refusing to role reveal, and Ayisdra, for revealing last of all. But clearly my instincts may be a bit off, since I really thought Alexandria was lying.

I can say with confidence that, however confused Zitto may have been about his role yesterday, he did nothing at all last night, and nobody else approached him.

Ayisdra

So, Zitto was sure that Arix was lying about being vanilla.  If Zitto is town still could be debated, but it is clear that he is either lying about his power or misunderstanding it once again.

As for me revealing last, @Carakhan, that is just a matter of 90% of the revealing happening in the middle of the AM-night my time.

I'm wary of @Coraline words. She seems to be a bit surprised that all town roles are Imperial, implying she isn't an imperial herself?

Zitto

Ayisdra said:

So, Zitto was sure that Arix was lying about being vanilla.  If Zitto is town still could be debated, but it is clear that he is either lying about his power or misunderstanding it once again.

My power answered the question "Is this a vanilla townie" with "no" because a survivor is not a vanilla townie. This was suspicious because Arix had claimed to be a vanilla townie. I'm disappointed we didn't hit scum, but there was no misunderstanding here.

Sylandra

Let's all reveal what actions we took last night. This is the time to put all your chips on the table, people.

I'll start: no power save for mine targeted @Coraline last night.

Also, it's time for Coraline to claim.

Sylandra

I also want to consider why Alexandria was targeted. People were willing to pile on her yesterday, so I'm surprised from that perspective that she was the night victim.

But on the other hand, her power was the most dangerous to the scum of all the ones shared yesterday. It was the only damning investigative ability left in play.

Which is interesting, considering how quickly many of us doubted that ability yesterday.

Carakhan

Ayisdra said:

As for me revealing last, @Carakhan, that is just a matter of 90% of the revealing happening in the middle of the AM-night my time.

That doesn't change the fact that if you were scum, you had the benefit of everyone else's claims to pattern yours from. Did you use your power last night? 

Ayisdra

Carakhan said:

Ayisdra said:

As for me revealing last, @Carakhan, that is just a matter of 90% of the revealing happening in the middle of the AM-night my time.

That doesn't change the fact that if you were scum, you had the benefit of everyone else's claims to pattern yours from. Did you use your power last night? 

I did not use my power. Given the nature of it, and being night 1, I figured it would be a waste.

Sylandra

Ayisdra said:

Carakhan said:

Ayisdra said:

As for me revealing last, @Carakhan, that is just a matter of 90% of the revealing happening in the middle of the AM-night my time.

That doesn't change the fact that if you were scum, you had the benefit of everyone else's claims to pattern yours from. Did you use your power last night? 

I did not use my power. Given the nature of it, and being night 1, I figured it would be a waste.

If we lynch incorrectly today, we lose on Night 2, don’t we?

Ayisdra

Sylandra said:

Ayisdra said:

Carakhan said:

Ayisdra said:

As for me revealing last, @Carakhan, that is just a matter of 90% of the revealing happening in the middle of the AM-night my time.

That doesn't change the fact that if you were scum, you had the benefit of everyone else's claims to pattern yours from. Did you use your power last night? 

I did not use my power. Given the nature of it, and being night 1, I figured it would be a waste.

If we lynch incorrectly today, we lose on Night 2, don’t we?

Assuming 2 scum, yes. But my power just tells me if someone else used a power. With Night 1 being nothing but everyone using powers, I didn't see how that would be really useful. On Night 2, assuming we aren't a Lynch or Lose, it might prove to be much more helpful. More so if there happens to only be 1 scum. (With Arix 'filling' the other role as Carakhan suggested.)

Sylandra

Fair enough. Could’ve used it on @Zitto though to test his claim that he “spent” his power.

Coraline

Okay I'll claim because I feel like I'll be lynched today if I don't.

I'm Lawyer. I have the power of cross examination. That means, if someone targets me at night, I can use their role the next night. So tonight, I can EYE someone to see what powers targeted them at night. I won't know who used the powers though.

Also I'm town. The Imperial part just slipped my mind when I read my role pm 

Coraline

And also if multiple people target me, I get one of those powers at random.

Zitto

I've already explained that I've used my one-shot power, and Carakhan observed me during the night. I did nothing last night and did not notice any actions performed on me.

Ayisdra

Coraline said:

Okay I'll claim because I feel like I'll be lynched today if I don't.

I'm Lawyer. I have the power of cross examination. That means, if someone targets me at night, I can use their role the next night. So tonight, I can EYE someone to see what powers targeted them at night. I won't know who used the powers though.

Also I'm town. The Imperial part just slipped my mind when I read my role pm 

Isn't this EYE power the same as Sylandra?

So, you have two powers (seeing what powers target them and copying someone's powers if they target you) when the rest of us only have one?

Coraline

Because she targeted me, I can use her power tonight. My power is cross examination

Zitto

Ayisdra said:

So, Zitto was sure that Arix was lying about being vanilla.  If Zitto is town still could be debated, but it is clear that he is either lying about his power or misunderstanding it once again.

As for me revealing last, @Carakhan, that is just a matter of 90% of the revealing happening in the middle of the AM-night my time.

I'm wary of @Coraline words. She seems to be a bit surprised that all town roles are Imperial, implying she isn't an imperial herself?

Ayisdra said:

Coraline said:

Okay I'll claim because I feel like I'll be lynched today if I don't.

I'm Lawyer. I have the power of cross examination. That means, if someone targets me at night, I can use their role the next night. So tonight, I can EYE someone to see what powers targeted them at night. I won't know who used the powers though.

Also I'm town. The Imperial part just slipped my mind when I read my role pm 

Isn't this EYE power the same as Sylandra?

So, you have two powers (seeing what powers target them and copying someone's powers if they target you) when the rest of us only have one?

I'm going to get the day rolling with:

Vote @Aysidra

He's really pushing some thin material here. Picking on @Coraline over the discussion of "Imperial" is a really big stretch that feels like spreading doubt for doubt's sake. Further, both his actual claims against me and against Coraline are a result of him either misunderstanding or deliberately misrepresenting what happened. My power worked as advertised, identifying Arix as "Not Vanilla Town", and Coraline has explained that her power absorbs other powers, and we know Sylandra targeted Coraline with her own Eye ability and nobody else targeted Coraline. This is not two powers, this is one power working as explained. I feel like Aysidra is pushing cases based on semantics rather than information because he's worried where the information will point. At this point, it may be paranoia, but his claimed ability to tell is someone used their powers is extremely close to my own power, though we have seen with Alexandria and Carakhan's claims that relatively similar powers may be in play.

Ayisdra

Zitto said:

Ayisdra said:

So, Zitto was sure that Arix was lying about being vanilla.  If Zitto is town still could be debated, but it is clear that he is either lying about his power or misunderstanding it once again.

As for me revealing last, @Carakhan, that is just a matter of 90% of the revealing happening in the middle of the AM-night my time.

I'm wary of @Coraline words. She seems to be a bit surprised that all town roles are Imperial, implying she isn't an imperial herself?

Ayisdra said:

Coraline said:

Okay I'll claim because I feel like I'll be lynched today if I don't.

I'm Lawyer. I have the power of cross examination. That means, if someone targets me at night, I can use their role the next night. So tonight, I can EYE someone to see what powers targeted them at night. I won't know who used the powers though.

Also I'm town. The Imperial part just slipped my mind when I read my role pm 

Isn't this EYE power the same as Sylandra?

So, you have two powers (seeing what powers target them and copying someone's powers if they target you) when the rest of us only have one?

I'm going to get the day rolling with:

Vote @Aysidra

He's really pushing some thin material here. Picking on @Coraline over the discussion of "Imperial" is a really big stretch that feels like spreading doubt for doubt's sake. Further, both his actual claims against me and against Coraline are a result of him either misunderstanding or deliberately misrepresenting what happened. My power worked as advertised, identifying Arix as "Not Vanilla Town", and Coraline has explained that her power absorbs other powers, and we know Sylandra targeted Coraline with her own Eye ability and nobody else targeted Coraline. This is not two powers, this is one power working as explained. I feel like Aysidra is pushing cases based on semantics rather than information because he's worried where the information will point. At this point, it may be paranoia, but his claimed ability to tell is someone used their powers is extremely close to my own power, though we have seen with Alexandria and Carakhan's claims that relatively similar powers may be in play.

I was unaware of survivor showing up as a 'not vanilla townie.' That is my mistake, as was missing completely the middle of Sylandra's post where she said she targeted Coraline. As for me pushing semantics, this is nothing new with how I play mafia.

Sylandra

I’ll confirm that EYE is the verb for my power. @Coraline has a weird power but it checks out with my role and my targeting her last night.

Also here’s a pickle. No one has claimed the doctor. So uh yeah if we have two mafias there’s nothing to stop them from winning if we mislynch.

I had kind of figured Coraline was the doctor based on her reluctance but no dice.

Carakhan

You know, if @Coraline is the sole scum, she may have some ability that lets her "read" people who target her, or even potentially absorb their powers, to help balance the fact that she's the only scum. So the fact that she saw Sylandra and read her power, doesn't actually convince me that she's town.

Her comment about "imperial" may also be explained by this being the first time she's actually seen what the non-scum role looks like.

If there's two scum, I think they're most likely to be Coraline and Ayisdra. Coraline was willing to lynch Alexandria, on the premise that if she turned town, we'd lynch me. She was then willing to lynch Arix, on the premise that if he turned up town we'd lynch Zitto. Coraline's power fits the least with the town powers that have been revealed/claimed so far.

I think I vote: Coraline

Portius

It is DAY TWO. The day ends at 6:15 PM EST on Tuesday, September 24th.

VOTES

Ayisdra-1 (Zitto)

Coraline-1 (Carakhan)

With 5 Old Worlders alive, it will take 3 votes to lynch!

Sylandra

Y’all so quick to vote and so quick to assume we only have one scum in play. I keep worrying if I add on a vote a scum will snipe and win!

The third party flip yesterday really messed up the perception of the setup for me. @Zitto is usually a smart guy so him misunderstanding his power so profoundly surprised me a bit, but I figured he wouldn’t state someone was lying unless he had definitive proof. If Arix had been mafia I don’t think anyone would have doubted Zitto today, and if Arix was townie, we would all be voting Zitto. Third party reveal puts us in a weird no-mans-land where Zitto’s behavior could make sense for either faction, though is skews slightly more town.

That said I do think the pushback against @Ayisdra and @Coraline for being last to claim makes sense. What I really and truly do not understand is why Coraline hid her role. 

What was the big deal about sharing this power? Why would town be upset if it was shared? I said this before but I really believed Coraline was soft claiming doctor with her hedging, or some kind of immunity!

Why would we so desperately need to hide this power from the mafia, when scarier powers like Alexandria’s existed and were shared? Unless Coraline wanted us to target her for reasons @Carakhan suggests.

Sylandra

Here is the down and dirty on N1 recap:

• Sylandra: Targeted Coraline last night, who was not targeted by other individuals - CONFIRMED BY CORALINE
• Coraline: Passively responded to Sylandra last night - FLAVOR CONFIRMED BY SYLANDRA
• Ayisdra: Took no action last night
• Zitto: Took no action last night - CONFIRMED BY CARAKHAN
• Carakhan: Targeted Zitto last night, saw no actions

One of these people nightkilled Alexandria. But who?!

Coraline confirms I targeted her last night, which rules me out (unless you think I'm working with Coraline).
Carakhan confirms Zitto didn't take any action last night, which rules both him and her out (unless you think they're working together).

Which leaves only @Coraline and @Ayisdra as the potential murderers, assuming all the above information is true. Again, assuming this is a correct representation of what happened last night, this gives us a 50/50 shot at hitting the person who killed off Alexandria.

-------

Tldr: So I think we're probably on the right track with the trains we have and I'm not against hammering either down. Right now, I'd like Coraline to explain why she was so hesitant to claim yesterday, because like I said above, I honestly do not see what the big deal is or was.

Coraline

I wanted to hide it because I was hoping a scum would visit me so I can get their role

Sylandra

Coraline said:

I wanted to hide it because I was hoping a scum would visit me so I can get their role

If a scum visited you, you also could just be dead! But I do see some logic to that, trying to catch someone in a lie.

How much of the role information do you get when someone targets you? I know you got the verb I used (EYE), which I never mentioned once in the thread.

Sylandra

Second question, and this one is for @Ayisdra and @Zitto: Am I wrong, or are your investigative powers virtually the same thing?

Zitto, once during the day, could message Portius and check to see if someone was "vanilla townie" - in other words, a townie player without a usable power. He used this on Arix who, since he was third party, supposedly showed up as not-vanilla and was lynched.

Ayisdra has described a power with a remarkably similar conceit: he can see if a player has used up their power or not.

In other words, what is the likelihood of having two townies with the closest thing to an investigative ability that we have? And am I wrong in thinking that Ayisdra's sounds more directly useful to mafia, since it's not about finding "scum," but rather about determining which townies are still threats?

Coraline

I get a message that something was afoot, and I take notes. Then I get information on what I can do next night, which seems to be a condensed role info. For example, I also know that I won't be able to know who used the powers.

Ayisdra

Sylandra said:

Second question, and this one is for @Ayisdra and @Zitto: Am I wrong, or are your investigative powers virtually the same thing?

Zitto, once during the day, could message Portius and check to see if someone was "vanilla townie" - in other words, a townie player without a usable power. He used this on Arix who, since he was third party, supposedly showed up as not-vanilla and was lynched.

Ayisdra has described a power with a remarkably similar conceit: he can see if a player has used up their power or not.

In other words, what is the likelihood of having two townies with the closest thing to an investigative ability that we have? And am I wrong in thinking that Ayisdra's sounds more directly useful to mafia, since it's not about finding "scum," but rather about determining which townies are still threats?

Ah, you misunderstand me then. My power is if they used their power at night if I targeted them. It is a 'Did they use a power at night', not a 'Have they used their power'

Sylandra

@Ayisdra Ahh, I see! So to confirm: If you targeted me on N1, you would have gotten a result that I used up my power that night? (Because I spent it on Coraline.)

Ayisdra

Sylandra said:

@Ayisdra Ahh, I see! So to confirm: If you targeted me on N1, you would have gotten a result that I used up my power that night? (Because I spent it on Coraline.)

Right.

My line of thinking was everyone was doing their powers, it would be pointless as it would be 'yes'. And that it would trigger off the night kill (as 'yes they used a power'), that with everyone but scums powers gone, it should only now trigger off them unless other people have more than one use power...