Oh, I am not arguing how the rest of the game views us. I'm only speaking about how my character views it. Brona has always seen the rest of the basin as misled and ill-informed. Not their fault they don't know any better. The Divine outside the 12, however... Well, that is a different story.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Well, I certainly think that most villains are far more compelling if they believe themselves to be heroes. Cackling, mustachio-twirling, cape-fluttering villains are easy; humans who sincerely think they are right and you are wrong are hard, and can be oh so scary. Despite that, I think it's hard to claim that Magnagora doesn't occupy a role in the Lusternian fiction that doesn't qualify as even slightly villainous. The degree to which that is played out beyond the aesthetic, of course, is up to its players.
I really like this post!
I think it's really easy for the "dark" orgs to slide into "I DO WHAT I WANT, I'M EVIL," style RP. Personally speaking, I think emphasis on "we kill them because we're evil!" is a cliche and not particularly interesting in the dynamic environment of Lusternia. Not to say it's necessarily wrong. I think it's just easy and much less interesting than what Mag has been in the past, or what similar "dark" orgs do.
In this scenario, they killed a villager because they wanted a coat or hat or whatever. Classic "I do what I want, peon!" It seems like some then backed in to the "Threats of death is how we force them into servitude!" which is definitely much more interesting, but came across as disingenuous because well...we already knew they did it for a hat.
Not everyone RP's mag being "evil". If you believe Celest's RP is about being "good" (relative terms here) or benevolent, then I will say you are wrong. Celest has done some pretty crazy bad stuff in the name of their crusade.
@Lavinya I'm not seeking forum or admin intervention with this post. I posted it because it made me LOL that this is apparently a thing now and nobody cares. Shikha sent a letter to Leo; in game resolution is being sought for this conflict. I also don't consider killing the villagers roleplay, but gaming mechanics. The only reason any real roleplay will actually come from this is because I decided Shikha kicking up some dust over the indiscriminate slaying of innocent villagers who had sworn fealty to the engine is absolutely what she would have done. Especially since the comms people were after could have been gotten elsewhere.
Edited to avoid double posting.
If you're not looking for intervention player/admin side then what are you looking for? Because you posted Mag's city logs, mag's city aether, and the letter of your complaint. So either you're looking to get some pity out people, or you're trying to get people to agree with you which in that case is the same thing as attempting to look for intervention. You're trying to get players to side with you and tell Mag to stop screwing around. Which is player intervention. If this wasn't the case, this'd be a 1 paragraph post in tweets.
Honestly, I'm curious to see what comes of this. Mainly because I played imperian long enough to see RP pretty much die there and I don't want to see the same happen here. The last I was here, the toleration of OOC was very low and this seems to have changed. Now, I do not mean people are running around playing bards singing gangnam style while using dramaturgy to dance their way into our hearts, but I do mean there is not as much enforcement of character development and general caring of how roles are utilized.
This is a discussion with a lot of various angles / parts.
I've run into similar things on my own; for example, the mystics / ritualists in Glomdoring were bugged pretty extensively for a while. I ended up making a post to the Commune saying that any mystic / ritualist who lied and thus ruined the nai'Dorin should be executed on sight. I do feel that there is room for murdering of your own "loyals" for specific reasons. Determining that reason is part of roleplay. Does it make sense for your character to be so self-centered and self-focused that they don't mind the murdering of their own loyals (and hindering their organization's income in terms of commodities) in order to get something they desire (such as a cloak)? Then by all means, feel free!
Others are more than welcome to roleplay a response to that too; some of the objections are very obvious (even a few which would make sense for Magnagorans to make). Woo roleplay. Go out and have fun with it! There is no need for there to be "no consequences," but it is up to the players involved where they want to take it from here.
Honestly, I was just shocked with the whole killing loyals for a piece of clothing thing. Not just the kill, but also the this was a request and granted. I mean, I am not the most qualified explorer, but surely there are other humans than ones loyal to Magnagora?
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
But why go hunting for them when you have a perfectly good stock of cattle right in your own empire?
So long as it's played out well, I think this is a perfect situation for Magnagora to exploit.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
@Munsia I wanted to have a discussion about this, which this has turned into a pretty good one. I don't require validation, and in fact a lot of people have said 'Yep, Mag, that's what they do!' and that's cool. There isn't any sinister plot being orchestrated here. It was an interesting situation, and hopefully develops into even more fun if Leo decides to take Shikha's complaint anywhere.
@Xenthos "no sense for Magnagoran's to make" is sort of closed minded, I think. You have to keep in mind that Magnagora was the only city to survive the Ladantinpocalypse. It, and its inhabitants, were tainted and transformed against their will into what many others call monsters. Surviving through strength and sheer force of will, they came to the conclusion that control of power, sometimes by violent means, was the only way they could survive. Shikha has always thought of herself as having been born into a role and looked down on by the world because they are intolerant, weak, and spiteful of the strength of her homeland. Her interactions with fanatics from Celest only solidified the idea in her mind that it is they who would stop at nothing to purge her friends and family from existence for simply being born as themselves. Shikha views herself as a hero, and even heros have to get their hands dirty. But, killing innocent loyals? She's not down with that, because it is not only senseless murder but actions that actually erode the strength and position of Magnagora. It also gives the enemy political power to play into their stereotypes.
@Xenthos "no sense for Magnagoran's to make" is sort of closed minded, I think. You have to keep in mind that Magnagora was the only city to survive the Ladantinpocalypse. It, and its inhabitants, were tainted and transformed against their will into what many others call monsters. Surviving through strength and sheer force of will, they came to the conclusion that control of power, sometimes by violent means, was the only way they could survive. Shikha has always thought of herself as having been born into a role and looked down on by the world because they are intolerant, weak, and spiteful of the strength of her homeland. Her interactions with fanatics from Celest only solidified the idea in her mind that it is they who would stop at nothing to purge her friends and family from existence for simply being born as themselves. Shikha views herself as a hero, and even heros have to get their hands dirty. But, killing innocent loyals? She's not down with that, because it is not only senseless murder but actions that actually erode the strength and position of Magnagora. It also gives the enemy political power to play into their stereotypes.
I feel like you somehow misread, because that line in my post does not contain the words "no sense for Magnagorans to make". It actually says exactly the opposite, that there are a few objections which I feel it does make sense for Magnagorans to make (just ones like "aww they are cute widdle humans and we must protect the innocents!" are excluded, because, yeah). :P
I read it as just an event log. It's fun to see what goes on in other cities sometimes as we can't be everywhere at once.
You mean it's fun to see another cities pointless drama...? That's all this really drops down to, along with the posting of the letter. This isn't an event log.
No, they shouldn't bow their head, but neither should they just blatantly show the game the drama to validate themselves (Which she claims otherwise.) To be this just screams that entire forum rp crap people call out at some times. If you want this to be solved, solve it in game. It didn't need a thread, and allllll of that did not need posted.
If I ever form an opinion on this, it'll be based on how the situation is resolved. Assuming I hear about it which, unless it is posted here, is doubtful.
So for now, I stand by my original point/response.
As previously stated, the issue arose because of the reason and manner it was handled. There was no RP cause or resolution. Honestly, I'm surprised it hasn't been added in that violence against loyal towns causes revolts to happen sooner.
when we're getting responses that say essentially 'can't believe they allowed it' and 'they better rp it properly' and 'this is blatantly ooc' itis obvious this is not just an amusing log. It's bringing game drama ooc. Leolamins and I are out of town. I'm sorry but you will have yo wait until we get back for you all to resolve your final opinions on whther this is good rp or not.
Also, apparently it only happened because we've used cogs as an illustration before. Why not post up that reaction too for the firing squad to check over for valid Mag rp?
I'm not going to explain myself here or argue my side of the rp that has yet to be resolved as I am out of town. I will save the fun for in the gsme, where drama is a delicoous
@Xenthos you're right, I did misread. I thought you said it didn't make sense when you said it did.
@Eritheyl this will be played out in character, but that doesn't mean we don't get to have fun discussions about it in out of character settings either. As I said, I trust the other people who matter in this situation to not metagame, and I absolutely lack any power to affect them IC or OOC, so what's the big risk in talking about it?
People discuss events and characters constantly in OOC clans, skype channels, IRCs, facebook posts, text messages, and over the phone. I decided to make a forum post. There's been some interesting discussion, I feel like. Anyone who is attributing some desire for this discussion to change the situation must be woefully ill-informed about the efficacy of such a thing, <sarcasm>particularly with my long list of friends in such great places of power.</sarcasm>
Magnagora has often been means to an end based. The costs are always irrelevant if success through completed objectives is achieved.
That doesn't make them evil, there's no malicious intent to do questionable things for the sheer sake of it. Instead there's just a lack of moral compass to guide on what actions should be taken to get results. There's no such thing as a phyrric victory, it's just a victory.
Evil would be murder "because I can" But here it was means to an end, that end being a fantastic new hat. Morally questionable, but not necessarily evil.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I do have this lovely recipe for cherub wings in a garlic Parmesan sauce.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
@Munsia I'm d'Murani and Feyranti both, so please don't try to play the family card. No matter how family RP plays out I lose. Whoever sucks I suck along with them, which is why I begged people to stop arguing over the stupid cog semantics for no gain other than humiliating the other: read: always me.
How can one not play the family card. You choose to stay with the Feyranti side, it's only the feyranti side that's bitching.
To be honest most families to me are more of like minded individuals who have come together to form 'Families' You can see this in families like n'kylbar who are all Ham's/Loud Mouths and d'Murani who almost all seem a bit power hungry. There's no family card, I'm just saying that that GROUP of people is the only GROUP whining about this. Also you're in with the Revan Lovers so you fit right in with Feyranti anyway. Why is this topic still alive -.-
Comments
I really like this post!
I think it's really easy for the "dark" orgs to slide into "I DO WHAT I WANT, I'M EVIL," style RP. Personally speaking, I think emphasis on "we kill them because we're evil!" is a cliche and not particularly interesting in the dynamic environment of Lusternia. Not to say it's necessarily wrong. I think it's just easy and much less interesting than what Mag has been in the past, or what similar "dark" orgs do.
In this scenario, they killed a villager because they wanted a coat or hat or whatever. Classic "I do what I want, peon!" It seems like some then backed in to the "Threats of death is how we force them into servitude!" which is definitely much more interesting, but came across as disingenuous because well...we already knew they did it for a hat.
I've run into similar things on my own; for example, the mystics / ritualists in Glomdoring were bugged pretty extensively for a while. I ended up making a post to the Commune saying that any mystic / ritualist who lied and thus ruined the nai'Dorin should be executed on sight. I do feel that there is room for murdering of your own "loyals" for specific reasons. Determining that reason is part of roleplay. Does it make sense for your character to be so self-centered and self-focused that they don't mind the murdering of their own loyals (and hindering their organization's income in terms of commodities) in order to get something they desire (such as a cloak)? Then by all means, feel free!
Others are more than welcome to roleplay a response to that too; some of the objections are very obvious (even a few which would make sense for Magnagorans to make). Woo roleplay. Go out and have fun with it! There is no need for there to be "no consequences," but it is up to the players involved where they want to take it from here.
So long as it's played out well, I think this is a perfect situation for Magnagora to exploit.
@Xenthos "no sense for Magnagoran's to make" is sort of closed minded, I think. You have to keep in mind that Magnagora was the only city to survive the Ladantinpocalypse. It, and its inhabitants, were tainted and transformed against their will into what many others call monsters. Surviving through strength and sheer force of will, they came to the conclusion that control of power, sometimes by violent means, was the only way they could survive. Shikha has always thought of herself as having been born into a role and looked down on by the world because they are intolerant, weak, and spiteful of the strength of her homeland. Her interactions with fanatics from Celest only solidified the idea in her mind that it is they who would stop at nothing to purge her friends and family from existence for simply being born as themselves. Shikha views herself as a hero, and even heros have to get their hands dirty. But, killing innocent loyals? She's not down with that, because it is not only senseless murder but actions that actually erode the strength and position of Magnagora. It also gives the enemy political power to play into their stereotypes.
@Brona
I think the key is "so long as it's played out well."
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Munsia is completely right. This is just forum RP and didn't even merit an actual response.
Editted away my actual response.
@Eritheyl this will be played out in character, but that doesn't mean we don't get to have fun discussions about it in out of character settings either. As I said, I trust the other people who matter in this situation to not metagame, and I absolutely lack any power to affect them IC or OOC, so what's the big risk in talking about it?
People discuss events and characters constantly in OOC clans, skype channels, IRCs, facebook posts, text messages, and over the phone. I decided to make a forum post. There's been some interesting discussion, I feel like. Anyone who is attributing some desire for this discussion to change the situation must be woefully ill-informed about the efficacy of such a thing, <sarcasm>particularly with my long list of friends in such great places of power.</sarcasm>
That doesn't make them evil, there's no malicious intent to do questionable things for the sheer sake of it. Instead there's just a lack of moral compass to guide on what actions should be taken to get results. There's no such thing as a phyrric victory, it's just a victory.
Evil would be murder "because I can" But here it was means to an end, that end being a fantastic new hat. Morally questionable, but not necessarily evil.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!