Best Of

Having friends or....frenemies? IC on both sides I do feel drawn to contribute a few of my feelings in this conversation, having a bit more time today.

I have not read each post, even if I try to keep apprised of the forums, and I do applaud the Devs trying act to fix a situation that has led to strain relations OOC after this ascension. My feelings on who is raised, Ixion or Choros, are indifferent as I have not known either long enough to really make any comments. I do feel, however, at the moment that the people are being trampled on both sides of the line; unfortunately for this beautiful world.

This may have been mentioned before, but a few things crept on my mind that concern me greatly.

-For most of the ascension seal events, the alliance was 4 vs 2. Until Hali's betrayal of Magnagora, this is a situation that led Glomdoring & New Celest to work twice as hard to achieve anything at all. I cannot even relate the frustration that I am certain was felt whenever competitors would come within inches of grasping a win only to have it taken away by a few points. Multiple times after said losses, shouts were heard from the victors - Often Magnagora -, ruining any attempts at good sportsmanship. I was not present for every seal, but I do recall that the few I was awake for had acts like these which only further fed the animosity vs a competition that many may have viewed as one-sided by a landslide since it's beginning.

-The ascension event itself, even if both sides worked extremely hard, was a culmination of all that had preceded it in its victory. Which feels like one of the main reasons people do feel cheated a bit out of the opposing team ascendant being raised. By succeeding in the battle itself, though Hallifax had betrayed by then, I feel that the competitors who had endured all the gloating that came before from the other side found vindication of all of their efforts in having done their best regardless of the situation.

-The strong stance adopted by Parhelion & Choros that fed the fire after the decision was taken by the administration. Threatening to reject people that had worked hard to see him succeed and be raised if they had a disagreement with his words or expressed their feelings of being trampled on after the work put in to stand a sporting chance from this 2 vs 4 ascension (seals included in this). Many may also have been concerned over newfound friendships both IC & OOC being affected by strained relations with Hallifax due to his words. I do wish Choros had not placed himself in such a position or shared words that were hard for many to read.

-The lag situation that needed to be addressed and the final event - ascension - that was so hampered by it that it became an unfair advantage for both sides, as bad as it ended up being. Had the opposing team held the staff in those last minutes, Glom & Celest would have been in the same situation. The northern alliance, as expected, felt cheated by the win due to how terrible it was in the last moments. Raising someone from the opposing team, however, has instead shifted the feelings of powerlessness to the side of those that won; nullify all of the efforts placed to be able to stand up to an opposition that outnumbered them from day 1 in the seals events.

-The concern, that I have found in many people, that had the situation was reversed - Cel, Glom, Halli lost & Mag, Seren, Gaudi won - the southern alliance team's ascendant would not have been raised. I find it unfortunate that I have not seen the re-assurance, perhaps I missed it, that had the winning team lost, their ascendant would have been raised just as Magnagora's Ascendant is being treated. For too many, unfortunately, it comes across as preferential treatment and I feel that is something that may need to be addressed.

I do not believe a perfect solution will ever exist for this extremely controversial event. I do feel strongly, however, that the entire ascension timeline should be considered when making the decision to essentially pronounces a tie over the ascension and take agency away from the players for the final result. Even if lag had ruined much of that control in the first place, lag evenly affected both parties. I suspect a second ascension could not be held without a repeat of the latency issues since fixing that will require an intensive amount of work.

I wish best of luck to the Devs in whichever solution they choose to uphold and find it unfortunate that so much emotional bruising has been ongoing since the ascension's end.

I do wish to ask everyone that was affected on either side to remember why they love this game and to take a moment to read the beautiful storytelling that has been woven in each of their respective orgs. From the depravation of Magnagora to the sanctity of New Celest, there is so much to this gorgeous game that raptures the mind and allows one to live their dreams. Please do not allow that beauty to be tainted from the unfortunate mess of ascension and continue to enjoy the artwork that is Lusternia & the Divine that tend to it.

Thank you for reading
-Afollia

Editing : Fixing grammar

I would really prefer not to be given anything extra, thanks. I'm not interested in being that ascendant who got a bonus because his opponent was so close, and I dont want to be the guy people point at next year and say, "He got this, why dont I get it?!?!?!"

Hi everyone,

I've taken a few days to cool down from the announcement post, because I was upset and honestly angry and I wanted to walk away and explore why I was feeling that way. Now I'm going to post this as a caveat before I get tainted with being toxic.  I have nothing OOC against Ixion, I don't know him. 

Mboagn said:

The Seal of Time, damaged from the hiccup, needs repairing. But it's too soon for another full Trial of Ascension. Avechna decides that this must be sudden death. Parhelion and two companions must face off against Ixion (/whatever his TA name will be) and his two companions. The two teams will be on Astral by themselves, where they must fight once more for the Staff. Since this is a quick-and-dirty Trial, they only need to race to 1800 (only Ixion and Parhelion can get points, but their companions can run for the Staff).

Firstly this is a horrendous idea . In theory it does sound amazing, but you are pitting one of the best PK'ers off against someone who PK's because they have to. The RP behind it is sound, but the actual application means that Ixion wins (My opinion).

Okay so why was I upset by this? I agree that lag was a massive issue for both sides during Ascension, and it was the worst lag we have had during the event. What I feel is being massively brushed under the carpet here by a lot of people is the following:

1) Celest/Glom/Halli has 2 seal bearers. This means we had one person who could be a runner, and one person who was able to run for the staff. With a few Hail Mary's Ciaran managed to grab the staff on several occasions. This is before six other people who were able to act as runners grabbed it. This was while both teams were fighting with lag. Now if Mag/Seren/Gaudi choose not to allow all of their other seal bearers baring Ixion to be runners, that's really down to them.

To clearly lay out my thoughts, this is like the finals of the premier league football. IHC had all 11 players on the field. Equinox had 6 players. With just them 6 they managed to win. Ref decides that the ground was too wet and everyone was slipping over on both sides. So we're going to just award the trophy to both sides this year.

2) OOCly I only cared who won Ascension based on sides. This isn't because I didn't want Ixion to be ascended, I didn't want my team losing. It could have been anyone on IHC's side up for TA, my feelings wouldn't have changed. Like many I see this as a competitive sport. ICly Aknarin is going to be crushed by the idea that someone from Magnagora and is Tainted is also becoming a TA. As the Queen of Celest, her duty to the Supernals, the Citizens, the Tide Lords, Divine etc etc is to stop the Tainted and remove them from the Basin of Life... this is just another step further away from it.

3) I don't feel a RP event for both sides helps to negate the negative feelings this decision has fostered within Equinox. Of course everyone is IHC is going to rave about how good it is, you're also getting something etc. A special event for Equinox in my honest opinion will not in any way, shape or form make them feel equal. I honestly don't have a solution that hasn't been suggested by @Xenthos or others during this thread, which isn't very helpful I know and I'm sorry. I'm just stating the fact.

Feel free to call me whatever you wish, but I honestly feel that IHC are always going to say 'this is good, accept it, stop being toxic' because generally they are benefitting from this. I also feel Equinox are going to push for something until they're blue in the face, because although people are saying "we're not taking anything away from you" you are giving the side that did not win the top prize.

I decided to go to bed early last night because my responses were not relaying what I was attempting to convey.

I think the main issue here is that I'm coming from a different perspective than everyone else. We're attempting a solution that takes everyone into consideration and people are speaking from their personal perspective and not the game as a whole. That's on me for not portraying things properly.

I'm not against doing something small to acknowledge Parhelion, but I think there's a distinct difference between that and doing something like giving a Demigod power only accessible to one alliance. 

(Also, who asks for Paypal donations for Ascension? I've not heard of that, that's crazy, I'm certainly not a fan of that and hope people aren't feeling obliged to contribute - this is off topic and don't continue this line of commenting though, I'm asking rhetorically.)

Xenthos said:

Lief said

So many players on our side really were crushed by the outcome more than usual because of the lag. This is a lovely morale boost and I'm not sure how it OOC takes away from the winning side. I am 100% sympathetic to the IC, as again, I'm not sure how Lief will react. But I really do feel that OOC it is a phenomenal gesture that our current admin will take responsibility and work to improve it for next year.

I think others have said, throughout this thread, why it diminishes the winning side... but there are a lot of posts at this point.

Basically, boil it down to this.

Two teams make it to the finals.  Whether it be the World Series, Stanley Cup, World Cup- you have two teams out on the field with a huge amount invested, emotionally, in the challenge.

The field is a ruined mess.  The game isn't called, but everyone is running, slipping, sliding through the mud.

Instead of calling the game, though, on it goes.

It is hard-fought, but when the time ticks down there is a winner.  The cup is given to the winning team.  But then, a couple of days later, the sport's authorities decree that they are making a second cup, exactly the same, and providing it to the other team.

Imagine the feelings of the first at this point, the emotions.  This is the ultimate prize of their sport.  They won it.  Circumstances entirely beyond their control affected the outcome, but because the game continued regardless they pushed on despite that... the joy, the euphoria of overcoming the odds and making the comeback win.

And now, they are told that the thing they competed for is just being duplicated and handed over to the other team- the thing they fought so hard to attain, the recognition that they prevailed, is now diminished to a participation trophy.

That is why it feels like it takes away.

Is it the right call in the context of a game that is simply not in the category of e-sports?  Possibly- if they are attempting to convert the game to be something less competitive, less us v. them, then sure.  But that is not how the event was billed, or until this post was made two days later.  Up until that point the event was the ultimate challenge, Lusternia's version of the World Series.  Acknowledging that, and accounting for that as well, is fair.

I have been reading along, and I fully read that people are upset. I don't understand it because this game isn't one where the prize is IRL money that is on the line - your livelihood isn't potentially at stake, like it could be in your example. Like someone else posted, Ixion will always have an asterisk by his name and Parhelion won't. The real victory is yours, and I am hopeful that the event reflects that, but I really do feel it is in part victory over the lag, not over the other side.

Holding this event is a gesture of kindness and goodwill, especially when the TF we received felt hollow even to me (I realize it was meant to be an apology, and after things cooled a bit but before the announcement I could understand it for what it was, but while people were reeling OOC, it unintentionally hurt people.)

From my understanding, the call was made so delayed because of OOC circumstances and a full day's driving between the end of Ascension and settling in enough to try to figure out the best thing to do. I do understand how the delay in a decision might leave people feeling confused and hurt, but that sounds like something where real life interfered as it can do. They were working with a lot of precedence as well - I personally am on the side that thinks it would have been most fair to delay as well, as I believe I remember you being, but I imagine it's hard to make that snap decision in the moment. I am, however, grateful that they aren't saying "Well, hindsight is 20/20, nothing we can do now, sorry kids".

I had been seeing people speaking to why they were upset OOC - because their characters' IC motivations were being trampled on, and I don't think that's how the event will play out. I wanted to post to express my point of view pertaining to that, as Lief was secretly breathing a sigh of relief that despite giving it her all, Creation was ultimately protected by someone who wasn't undead.