Curio rub tweak suggestion.

Steingrim

Curio tweak suggestion.

 

Succinctly:

Curios used to generate coins, but coins used to generate curios. Curios not generating coins results in fewer total curios in game.

 

Rare curios used to generate only other rares or 2 coins.

 

Problem:

Chance of gold is still a bit too high. Obstacle for completing sets still a bit too high.

 

Solution:

Rares should never rub into gold, instead rares should ‘split’ into two non-rare curios.

 

Reduce gold chance by 15% and add a 10% chance that rubbing a coin ‘spilts’ that coin into two curios.

 

This keeps rubbing fairly risky but rewards the gambler with a small chance at reward while generating a few more random curios for trading.

Vivet

I have a feeling that there will be issues with this due to the code, but yeah, something like this would be good.

Rubbing is just utterly pointless now, and carries too much risk against any tangible benefit.

Dys

For latest rubbing figures, I rubbed 79 cooking commons and got 36 to gold (45.6% of rubs, so the 95% confidence interval is 40% - 51%). Average gold was 3,800 sovereigns.

There were three types of curio results, out of all that turned to another curio - 29 (67%) went to another cooking curio in the same collection, e.g. ketchup went to another burger curio; 9 (21%) went to a cooking curio in another collection; 5 (12%) went to another type of curio.

I only rubbed 12 cooking rares but the percentages look in the same region. That means there's about a 9% chance that a rubbed rare curio will turn into itself (55% chance of turning to a curio, then 67% chance of staying in the same collection, then 25% chance of being the same set gives 55% * 67% * 25% = ~9%).

So yeah, rubbing isn't very worthwhile. Would be better to hold on and try to trade.

Tandrin

Just as a friendly public service announcement, I wouldn't rub curios at this time.  I have rubbed a couple and had them turn into unknown curios.  When this happens, you essentially lose a curio entirely.  Obviously, I have bugged it, but may want to wait until the issue is addressed.

Estarra

These are good ideas! They've been implemented.

The 'unknown' curio bug is fixed. It was a pretty rare bug and difficult to diagnose -- I had to literally rub hundreds of curios to reproduce a bug.

Ardmore

Ah, the rares turn into two random curios, not ones from the same set. That sucks.

Cool changes though, step in the right direction!

Karlach

Can the rares at least convert into same set first?

Thank you for changing this though!

Tridemon

This actually puts me closer to being able to finish a leprechaun pot, if I were so inclined. ... I'm not particularly, but I could start a partial!

Estarra

Actually, if the rare is in a collection, it'd be two normals of the same collection (but it's still a greater chance it'd become another rare in that collection).

Ardmore

curio rub 10960
You vigorously rub vermillion bottle spout curio piece of the Vermillion Bottle Curio Set between your thumb and forefinger. The curio trembles and then
transforms into fifth pinch of parsley curio piece of the Parsley Bottle Curio Set and first pinch of cloves curio piece of the Clove Bottle Curio Set.

and

curio rub 10927
You vigorously rub vermillion bottle spout curio piece of the Vermillion Bottle Curio Set between your thumb and forefinger. The curio trembles and then
transforms into crystal core curio piece of the Crystal Moon Curio Set.

Unless I'm misunderstanding how the collections work, neither of those statements are true. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kiradawea

The first... yeah I've no idea. But the second has it transforming from a rare in one collection to another, which is theoretically possible. Less likely, but hardly *un*likely either.

What's the chance for Rares for not dusting/splitting about now? Anyone know?

Ssaliss

So... With all the changes to rubbing and such, could we bring back curio trading for gold please? Since the main reason for the removal (at least I think the main reason was people transferring curios to others to rub for coins) is now no longer an issue, it would be awesome if we could have that feature back. Especially with all the new curios entering the scene.

Xenthos

Curio trading for gold exists, but curio piece trading does not (yet).

It would be nice to be able to trade pieces again as well, if that's what you are referring to.

Ssaliss

Yea, pieces were what I was referring to, heh.

Steingrim

Estarra said:

These are good ideas! They've been implemented.

The 'unknown' curio bug is fixed. It was a pretty rare bug and difficult to diagnose -- I had to literally rub hundreds of curios to reproduce a bug.

Thank you and thank you for getting to the bug. It only happened to me once and I didn't know it effected others. I just assumed it might have been trying to roll up one that had been removed or somesuch.

Steingrim

Estarra said:

Actually, if the rare is in a collection, it'd be two normals of the same collection (but it's still a greater chance it'd become another rare in that collection).

It doesn't seem to be working quite this way. At least I believe it rubbed from genie rare directly into non-genie pieces and Ardmore log show the same effect.

Steingrim

Faragan asked me to post this for him. The boards are difficult for him to manage. Corrected some glaring typos, so if something sounds backwards, blame me.

 

 611   Faragan         12/08 00:42     Idea, a diminishing return on curio pieces. When you get a curio piece check it against your list and if you have 2 of that piece you'll have less and less of a chance of getting that piece the more of them you get. if 2 of the same piece I'd suggest a 50 percent chance only of getting another identical piece 3upto 75 and if 4 then you won't get another identical piece. to summarize if you have 2 of x you only have a 50 percent chance of getting x if 3 of x only 75 percent chance if 4 you won’t get any more of x I suggest this because collecting now is really the only reason to get curios. Since rubbing you can not get Czigani coins this will make collecting easier. This formula should apply to opening packages, casks, crates, less on conversion or wheel spins. and another form of getting curio pieces. Quest ones too...cooking them. I think that's all the ways.

 

[Steingrim note]: I wouldn’t mind not getting duplicate pieces. It would probably require a significant rewrite to the code and hard to know what the Amins desires are about duplicate curio pieces. For these types of suggestions, my hunch is that the code probably lumps to much together, or that object creation doesn’t have enough flexibility or both. Overstepping here, my inclination would be to presume that curio creation could be and would need to be refactored into something like ‘chance’, ‘ object creation’, and ‘presentation’, meaning  you work out the result before creating the curios and then present the final result to the object creator. This way you can alter the generation mechanism more (e,g result says, make ‘Second Azure Bottle Shard’ player already has one or do things like add in chance rubbing a curios will split).

Steingrim

Another suggestion from me.

Suggestion: Wildcard curios.

 

I wanted to toss out the idea of ‘wildcard curios’, Czigany Jokers, if you will. Wildcards would sub in for any missing *allowed* curio piece.

 

Set jokers (sub for a specific set, e.g. Azure Genie Joker) could have a pretty easy good rub chance, say rub 100 curios and you’d wind up with 4 jokers.

 

In addition, you could have collection jokers (sub for a missing piece in any of the sets of the collection, e.g. Wild Genie Joker) . Chance, 25% of normal jokers would be collection ones.

Would make crates interesting. A crate could have one of each joker and a random rare, with 13 commons.

Shaddus

I like the idea of that, but I don't know if they could code it in.

Steingrim

Shaddus said:

I like the idea of that, but I don't know if they could code it in.

It isn't as easy as changing a number in the code, but and OR statement would/should/might work. If seventh azure or azure joker (simplified for reading).

p.s. @Estarra just posting this because I think from above you were saying this wasn't supposed to happen. I don't know that I mind it does (was really short on cooking curios) but:

You vigorously rub head curio piece of the Avaricious Asp Curio Set between your thumb and
forefinger. The curio trembles and then transforms into eighth cup of red sprinkles curio piece of
the Red Bottle Curio Set and eighth pinch of allspice curio piece of the Allspice Bottle Curio Set.

Tandrin

I wanted to post to thank Estarra for the recent changes to rubbing due to the suggestions.  As someone who has collected up a fair amount of these and been frustrated at times with the process, I think these changes make the system much more reasonable and take a lot of the unreasonable difficulty out of the picture.

As for the recent suggestions that have followed since, I am intrigued by the idea of a joker so to speak, but think maybe the way to handle it would be it to be sold separately.  It could have a steep credit cost (i.e. 25-50 credits) so that folks could use it to complete that missing piece for sets that are no longer available or that are not widely pursued by the overall population as well as providing some additional income to the game.

Uruk

Would it be possible to have the chance for a curio to rub into the same set be a little higher? -Especially- for the quest only curios?

Right now it seems like there is only around a 20% chance for a curio to rub into another curio.... Considering some of them take 3-4 hours to attain (I'm looking at you, Soulless bits) it really feels crappy to have it rub into something random like a cog piece 80% of the time.

Xenthos

Mine seemed to stay in the same set more often than not. Not by much, admittedly, but my success was more than 20%.

Uruk

Xenthos said:

Mine seemed to stay in the same set more often than not. Not by much, admittedly, but my success was more than 20%.

Maybe I should say a few more prayers to RNGeezus before I rub then... I've had -terrid- luck with it.

Arix

So if you lost a curio to the bug, there's no way of getting a replacement?

Ardmore

I don't see why not. It's not your fault there was a bug.

Arix

For reference:   You vigorously rub beak curio piece of the Ceramic Parrot Curio Set between your thumb and forefinger. The curio trembles and then transforms into unknown curio.

Steingrim

Uruk said:

Would it be possible to have the chance for a curio to rub into the same set be a little higher? -Especially- for the quest only curios?

Right now it seems like there is only around a 20% chance for a curio to rub into another curio.... Considering some of them take 3-4 hours to attain (I'm looking at you, Soulless bits) it really feels crappy to have it rub into something random like a cog piece 80% of the time.

The problem with changing it too much to the same set is then you wind up locked into that set. That was the rational behind maybe two commands, use one where you hope you get a different collection and one where you hope to get the same collection. But you have to be careful about making it too easy to finish quest curios.

P.S. I don't know that the chance of same collection vs different is, but if anything it seems more weighted to the same collection currently.

Steingrim

Tandrin said:

I wanted to post to thank Estarra for the recent changes to rubbing due to the suggestions.  As someone who has collected up a fair amount of these and been frustrated at times with the process, I think these changes make the system much more reasonable and take a lot of the unreasonable difficulty out of the picture.

As for the recent suggestions that have followed since, I am intrigued by the idea of a joker so to speak, but think maybe the way to handle it would be it to be sold separately.  It could have a steep credit cost (i.e. 25-50 credits) so that folks could use it to complete that missing piece for sets that are no longer available or that are not widely pursued by the overall population as well as providing some additional income to the game.

The jokers I was speaking of are set based, limiting their use. Universal jokers are a bit problematic for say quest curios. Though if they wanted to code things a bit more tricky I suppose they could limit how many jokers are in a set. But really if you can get something to be a rare in say the soulless set that's 95% of the work done.

Or maybe they could just not make jokers for quest curios.

Kiradawea

Steingrim said:

Uruk said:

Would it be possible to have the chance for a curio to rub into the same set be a little higher? -Especially- for the quest only curios?

Right now it seems like there is only around a 20% chance for a curio to rub into another curio.... Considering some of them take 3-4 hours to attain (I'm looking at you, Soulless bits) it really feels crappy to have it rub into something random like a cog piece 80% of the time.

The problem with changing it too much to the same set is then you wind up locked into that set. That was the rational behind maybe two commands, use one where you hope you get a different collection and one where you hope to get the same collection. But you have to be careful about making it too easy to finish quest curios.

P.S. I don't know that the chance of same collection vs different is, but if anything it seems more weighted to the same collection currently.

I've been trying to finish the Vernal Collection for a year. Tell me how it's "too easy".

Karlach

The vernal collection has a series of really easy repeat spammable quests, it's simple to achieve it just requires time investment. Some people actually enjoy spirit crushing grindfests.