To be fair, there's a counterbalance where people don't do the minimal. Running into fights with no tattoos, proofings, kirigami and a racial fire malus (not to mention the potential for some to take further dmp through amberbeer/attune/devoutshield) and then complaining that Destruction is overpowered.
Infact a good number of the complaints come from people who will die to damage regardless of the spell/source because they expect to simply be able to rambo in and go toe to toe with people who put far more into their characters.
I agree that the ceiling could certainly be lowered, or at least the gulf between have and have nots.shrunk so while you can still obtain an edge, it certainly won't offer the current disparity. But at the same time you shouldn't expect to simply be able to go in without any preparation or care and expect to be on a level playing field. At the same time people shouldn't have to put in exceptional time/effort/money to be competitive, as someone who does, I'd still expect an edge over those who don't, and certainly expect an advantage over those who do nothing at all.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
The fact that you refute the idea that fair knowledge of the playing field is at all appropriate is pretty indicative of the state of conflict in this game.
Edited for cursing!
Except I didn't refute it, at all. I literally just said it's fine to put it in the help file. The only point I am making is that you are making mountains out of mole hills.
"'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in." -Synkarin's Lament.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited February 2014
To be fair, it kind of depends on how much war buffs destruction. There was a time when no caster could pace a warrior in mob kills under any circumstances. I personally don't know if Mork used destruction or his katana. If he was using his destruction (as I suspect he was for at least a sizable portion of it just based on my conversations) then we have to consider why is his destruction outpacing his katana. The war domoth, since that was apparently an unknown until 10 seconds ago, might have something to do with it.
I can say with certainty that, as an Ascendant with war karma, the fire dmp buff curio, and a fire tattoo curio as a faeling, I will still not keeping pace with Xenthos on Astral.
We need to remember that it was 2 things that took geos from a powerful guild to a dude one shotting half the game. 1) raise staff and 2) champion artie. Things can and will push certain skills over the edge, which is why knowledge of them is important.
edit: I didn't know about war and destruction either.
Because min/maxing to win Seal competitions is a new idea.
The information was there to anyone who read the tooltips, it was mentioned several times on this forum during the whole whips discussion about how Destruction was affected by War Domoth, first by Iosai and then later by myself and Chade. The knowledge is there, and has been out for public record for a while.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
To be fair, it kind of depends on how much war buffs destruction. There was a time when no caster could pace a warrior in mob kills under any circumstances. I personally don't know if Mork used destruction or his katana. If he was using his destruction (as I suspect he was for at least a sizable portion of it just based on my conversations) then we have to consider why is his destruction outpacing his katana. The war domoth, since that was apparently an unknown until 10 seconds ago, might have something to do with it.
Depends on the target, Destruction outpaces the Katana usually because target vulnerability comes into effect. Depending on what you were hunting on Astral, some aren't fire vulnerable (and are infact fire resistant) and Xenthos also has Clover/L3 crit. He also had the option of sticking his stat runes and fire runes on his bashing weapon because :pliers: Certainly when I've used destruction and he and I have gone head to head on Astral, I've picked up more corpses by the end of it.
Reasons it might hit harder? 20-21 int vs 18-19 str, L2 magic rune, fire tattoo/curio, and sometimes Sidd's there to drop Fireforte. War Domoth is just like adding extra on top.
Edit: And no f##king miss rate.
Edit of Edit: I've been using other caster abilities in lieu of destruction in some fights, heck I didn't even take Destruction for War Seal and found that I could do more damage without a min max setup of tattoo+curio. Ultimately as much as people want to rally around and scapegoat it, Destruction isn't the big bad imbalance issue. Kelly and Xena took Destruction and it doesn't do anywhere as much damage... unless they're taking out the newer people who haven't got tattoos/proofings/health pools worth a damn yet.
So you can argue about specific spells, but the overarching issue lies with caster damage and scaling in general there, and that's something both sides can (and sometimes do) take advantage of. It's in essence an arms race of mitigation vs damage boosting, and those not competing find themselves sorely lacking at both ends of the spectrum.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Yeah but I had all of that you just listed minus fireforte. I mean, you aren't the first person to powerbuff your destruction. :P It was my go to until Nightgaze damage typing was switched. And you can get all the same buffs for warrior weapons. (I mean, you probably won't since warrior damage in pk is crap).
Warriors would still surpass me even on lobstrosities or fesixes. I just mention Xenthos because he has the flexibility of blunt or cutting as he needs it. Admittedly, a big part of it was critical hit runes (Ardmore would always outpace me too, I think he had a level 4 and goodluck).
I'm just saying it's hard to say unless you know specifically how much War buffs destruction. I don't think it's fair to discount it without knowing.
You said "what does it matter" and "who cares?" .. as though transparency is irrelevant. Because I know you are a good guy, I'll assume you were being dismissive of Elanorwen then, and not the general idea of fairness.
It's damage-shift that evened the field for casters.
Damage types did absolutely nothing to even any playing fields at all whatsoever. They created a chance for a very limited segment of the population to be ridiculously powerful while everyone else continues to scramble just to find places they won't face a malus. Whips don't even the field either. Forcing some people to drop 3-600 credits to get access to divinus and fire damage doesn't create "an even field." It just makes it conceivably possible to reach the same level.
Simple as that. Case in point; when Mag/Halli/Seren had that ridiculous meeting where the city leaders decided that the only way to break the Equinox up was for us to split and all go neutral, look what happened. Mag actually whipped Celest in a lot of pk engagements when it was just Mag and Celest, but the Equinox was not obligated by any means to not come to their aid, so they would and we'd get routed easily. You can't blame them for doing that, they play to win, so they did.
Serenwilde and Hallifax had the bright idea to say the Nil with it and go to Celest after the Equinox shakedown. Aside from being carried(and there's really no denying this) by Xena and Kelly, Celest never really amounted to much, and Hallifax and Seren just never had the kind of muscle to bring to bear.
Whoa whoa whoa, this is a divert, but you have this all wrong. There was no meeting, and no decision. That was an entirely unilateral decision by Morbo, with no input from the rest of the group. We were actually trying to make an uneasy truce with Gaudiguch at the time (not yet official) to tip the scales in our favor that way, but it all went to hell when that happened.
I only said those things because in the grand scheme of issues, it's a pretty minor issue and not a big deal. I figured this thread was for real issues, not petty discrepancies.
Yes, there is still variance in typing, some people got the short end of the stick, but warriors are not the far and above bashers they used to be
Yeah but I had all of that you just listed minus fireforte. I mean, you aren't the first person to powerbuff your destruction. :P It was my go to until Nightgaze damage typing was switched. And you can get all the same buffs for warrior weapons. (I mean, you probably won't since warrior damage in pk is crap).
Warriors would still surpass me even on lobstrosities or fesixes. I just mention Xenthos because he has the flexibility of blunt or cutting as he needs it. Admittedly, a big part of it was critical hit runes (Ardmore would always outpace me too, I think he had a level 4 and goodluck).
I'm just saying it's hard to say unless you know specifically how much War buffs destruction. I don't think it's fair to discount it without knowing.
Right, I'm on a par with Xen for crit boosts and I tend to build a comfortable lead when we go head to head. So the issue likely was your lack of crits.
As for War, I really should run some tests on my beast pre/post grabbing it for the numbers, but the only difference I know is it takes roughly 45 minutes to clear 2 larva at 20-21 int with War, than the 55-60 minutes without.
Next time I do a handover to Sidd I'll run some numbers against my wyvern pre and post so we can numbercrunch.
Anyway, this is going off the topic somewhat. The min/max effect of caster damage is not attributed to one specific spell in PK, and it's an overarching effect that affects the general gulf between the casual and the "win at all costs" bleeding edge type. PK has a base line of investment requirement (that doesn't require RL cash) for people to compete, they complain about icewalls? You'd tell them to buy an ignite enchant. They complain about P5th? You'd tell them to buy a gust enchantment. They complain about damage? Why aren't we telling these people to tattoo up, build up alcohol resistance so they can base level amberbeer without getting drunk, invest in kirigami/robe proofings and about the various other potential means at their disposal to increase survivability?
Also as a final aside damage shift didn't even the field, have you seen dual wielding warriors with DS? The potential to kill 3 mobs in a single sub 3 second balance gives them a further advantage.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Simple as that. Case in point; when Mag/Halli/Seren had that ridiculous meeting where the city leaders decided that the only way to break the Equinox up was for us to split and all go neutral, look what happened. Mag actually whipped Celest in a lot of pk engagements when it was just Mag and Celest, but the Equinox was not obligated by any means to not come to their aid, so they would and we'd get routed easily. You can't blame them for doing that, they play to win, so they did.
Serenwilde and Hallifax had the bright idea to say the Nil with it and go to Celest after the Equinox shakedown. Aside from being carried(and there's really no denying this) by Xena and Kelly, Celest never really amounted to much, and Hallifax and Seren just never had the kind of muscle to bring to bear.
Whoa whoa whoa, this is a divert, but you have this all wrong. There was no meeting, and no decision. That was an entirely unilateral decision by Morbo, with no input from the rest of the group. We were actually trying to make an uneasy truce with Gaudiguch at the time (not yet official) to tip the scales in our favor that way, but it all went to hell when that happened.
I had the log of Morbo, Leolamins, and whoever was leading Seren discussing it pending respective council opinions. Thalk even came to Enya as soon as he found out because it was a wtf? Moment. Yeah it was pushed by Morbo but all city leaders knew and on a level it was a mutual agreement
One of the additional reasons 'casual pk' is dead is that someone looking to fight a similarly-tiered enemy outside of ordained combat encounters one of two scenarios:
1) Target is Avenger protected. If they can't finish the fight quickly, the target's entire alliance will come down on them like a ton of bricks, with many combatants further in the 'play to win' category arriving rapidly to quash any fighting.
2) Target is not Avenger protected. See above about the entire enemy group arriving, but - you can also bring your entire alliance. Unfortunately, this still means you will see very little fighting as a little or medium-fish.
In avenger areas, there is no real pressing reason to avoid using the defend mechanism to protect your ally, especially as all of those 'bigger fish' fighters are also looking for combat outlets. You can't blame them for wanting to show up and participate, even though it basically nullifies any prime pk.
Outside of avenger areas, there are no combat rules. Anything short of bug abuse or harassment goes. The only two reasons to not just gank everyone who steps onto non-avenger protected areas on sight would be if you're outnumbered, or because you'd get bored of ganking lowbies constantly, The only possible 'repercussions' you face are escalation of combat to huge zerg fests, or grief-offs, which doesn't help anyone (and hurts some orgs more than others).
The avenger system, while protecting lowbies from getting constantly ganked, creates a system in which there can be no meaningful small time pk (and lowbies can potentially be constantly ganked, or locked out of huge swaths of the game).
Syntax: MANIFEST AEGIS FOR <person> Essence: 10,000
The Domotheos of Justice lends an Ascendant its aegis, so that they may in turn shield another. Controlling the Domotheos of Justice partially disperses some of the damage before you receive it.
Info for Destruction:
Syntax: MANIFEST DESTRUCTION AT <victim> Essence: 200 (vs players) 25 (vs denizens) Type: 100% Fire Source: Magical
The Domotheos of War is powerful and mighty, and so lends its destructive force to those who would draw upon it. Controlling the Domotheos of War grants a great increase to the damage caused by Destruction.
The Domotheos of Death offers an eerie and unsettling manifestation of its power to those who seek it, the wailing spirits of the dead driving any present away in terror. Controlling the Domotheos of Death causes FearAura to tick faster.
Other powers used to be boosted by the linked Domoth; Omniscience, for example, applied to every member of your Cult if you held the Domoth. Apparently this was nixed when powers came out and Veneration was split off from them into its own thing, so not all Domoths are treated equally.
Okay, so... let me get this straight. My problem is that I'm playing a race that has a fire malus... and that I don't min-max. Well, gee... my best way to min-max at this point is to go trill... which has a fire malus. So the decision there is between... playing a race that can't min-max... or playing a race that has fire malus... Never mind that even if trill didn't have the fire malus, it would still be weaker to several other races in the survivability department with the low con, which is something quite important for a primary melder. So where does the problem lie then? I can quite likely deal with a pyromancer as a trill... even with fireforte and all the other shiny little buffs that they get that nobody else does... but against destruction? Probably not. So apparently, the problem isn't the fire malus or the min-maxing, but the fact that destruction needs a closer look at.
Anyways, back to domoths... if only three get the perks, then the perks need to be gone, simple as that, or other domoths also need to get perks of similar nature (Yay, more feature creep, which I personally feel isn't necessary). Also, should I note the fact that the text for Destruction is.... "grants a great increase to the damage caused by Destruction"?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited February 2014
There's really a fundamental difference between telling people to get an ignite enchant and min/max their dmp resistances, which ties back to the original discussion of requiring too many balls in the air to be competitive.
One is a ring a ring to counter another ring that everyone has. The other a bunch of shit you have to maintain so you don't get facerolled by 3 or 4 specific players in the game.
Now, you know I've said I think the destruction argument is overblown. I don't think it's as atomically game breaking as it's made out to be. My issue is that it's better than every other damage attack out there (save maybe nightgaze/moonfire or whatever the MDs get) and not everyone can get it. Which I think then devolves into "only 3 people have it, there are bigger issues!" Which I think is a pretty big issue.
edit: Full disclosure, I play a healer wiccan. I don't even remember the last time I was damage killed. I tanked Shuyin and Synkarin destruction spamming my face without breaking a sweat. I still think the game would be better off without it and special snowflake ascendant abilities
I play Aslaran and get hit by Destruction from Kelly, even when I'm a tracker without Nightkiss it doesn't hit close to the damage it's ruining other people for.
Chade hits harder with Pyromancy than anyone does with destruction, so stop making a scapegoat out of a single ability.
Edit: Celina, you really think it's a push too far to tell people to invest in tattoos/proofings/kirigami and amberbeer? No artifact investment, no curio farming, just things you can get through trade skills that people in both alliances have?
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I play Aslaran and get hit by Destruction from Kelly, even when I'm a tracker without Nightkiss it doesn't hit close to the damage it's ruining other people for.
Chade hits harder with Pyromancy than anyone does with destruction, so stop making a scapegoat out of a single ability.
Chade has never been an issue for me (and probably will still do less damage than destro). And like I have mentioned before... I run Dracnari for the fire resist, I have a fire resist tattoo, proofing, frost potion, amber beer usually at 10dmp (Extra being dracnari and getting alcohol tolerance buff), elementshield and a curio. Granted, it's not a 15 fire DMP curio, but at that level, I'm already hitting the diminishing returns pretty hard, so at most a 15dmp curio will give me 3% extra resist which is laughable. Do I get bothered when Munsia is staffing me with poison (Something I have only 16% resist to?) Not really, no... Do I get bothered when a pyro meld smacks me or Chade's staff hits me full blast? Again, no. Do I get bothered when a warrior zaps me with Destro 1/3 of my hp? Well, let me see here.... a loud, resounding YES
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I feel like while that's an issue potentially worth discussing. It ought to be its own thread, it's kind of distracting from the more global issues of conflict. One person doing uber damage isn't making conflict how it is today, though arguably a cluster of special snowflakes all together does.
Because the word great isn't subjective in the slightest.
I issued it, so maybe we'll get an exact answer.
Anyway, remove them, that's fine. I feel like this is the 'giving squall a powercost' argument all over again. It's not going to make an overall difference, but you'll get your sense of victory. Good on you.
Gonna have to agree that discussing destruction is a bit offtopic when you take into account the entire thread.
With that said, I am also fine with removing the domoth buff but if you expect it to have a significant impact on victory or loss then you're gonna have a bad time. That sort of thing is reserved for a forced even distribution of play to win characters across orgs. Or hekoskeri. Harr harr.
PS the comparison between ignite enchants and minmaxing damage is pretty silly. Where is my wtf button.
Are you factoring in sensitivity in with that anecdote, because my beast spits ibululu on the same balance as the attack, not sure theirs does. Though I'm pretty comfortable that you're overdramatising with those numbers, you've sat there with both me and Sidd hitting you and we couldn't bash you out. I've never seen a log of you, without sensitivity, taking 1/3rd of your damage as a dracnari with 55+ dmp to a fire based attack.
Also Chade's staff cast isn't where his crazy damage is coming from right now, but that's just by the by.
Anyway if you want to continue this further, start a new thread. Because scapegoating the gulf between north and south being over one ability, and the fact every so often one of us has a boost to it, really proves my point about mentality.
Edit:
PS the comparison between ignite enchants and minmaxing damage is pretty silly. Where is my wtf button.
No one said that, I said that we expect people to have ignite for walls, gust for bards but when they get damaged out the first thing to do is complain about the damage and not go "Well you've no tattoos, no proofings, no kirigami, no amberbeer, all of which you can get through purely in game means very easily." I don't get why that is, they all are in my mind part of the entry level requirements into combat, and organisations can help mitigate the costs very easily if necessary.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Well my argument is that a cluster of special snowflakes with special attacks does indeed have a noticable impact on game wide conflict. If you have a group of people suddenly doing a lot more damage, that does make a difference. I'm not saying it's the win button or that you'd all be screwed without it (see: choke argument). I am saying things like this make the chasm impossibly large and unfair.
FYI: @Elanorwen: anecdotes with no logs do nobody any favors. Dor do random mentions of Pyro pollute (holocaust?) as comparisons to destruction, @Morkarion.
Alright, I'll bring this back to the larger issues of conflict. In Lusternia, the primary motivation behind most conflict lies in one resource, and it is power. At the beginning of the game each nexus started at zero, and each unit was precious. That situation made power generation more relevant both OOC and IC. Over time, power generation has significantly increased, and only the large expenditure is VA. That means that unless you focus on raising Vernals, power has become essentially worthless.
Now personally, I don't consider Vernal Ascendants to be worthy investments for organizations. Even given their use in capable hands, they still increase dependence in some form on specific individuals, who can betray that trust by leaving your organization or going awol. It also puts pressure on the ascendants to be around and play the game in the areas where ascendancy matters the most like Domoths. For example, in Magnagora, I find Akyaevin interesting. He's quiet, neutral, and he generally displays little interest in anything other than Domoths. Now he will participate in other conflicts, but when he speaks publicly it is predominately about domoths. It just makes me wonder if he really enjoys those conflicts or if it is just out of a sense of obligation.
I believe that one step in making conflict more relevant has to start with making power more useful. Lately, I've been thinking about the mechanic behind guards. I like the underlying logic. Benefits and improvements that are limited by power maintenance costs. For example, what if domoths drained power from organizations instead of generating it as a cost for the benefits they give?
On the other hand, guards are almost entirely useless, but that's another topic.
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Guards aren't useless. You just don't ever see their use because they are so effective at what they do when used correctly. Remove guards and you'd quickly realize their value.
Guards are useless in orgs that have multiple entry points. Gaudiguch, for instance, can cover their entries with two stacks and be fine. Hallifax needs more than four. Magnagora will need even more... not going to comment on Celest or the forests.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Any entry point that you can sprint through means that you need to set at least two stacks of guards at it to cover it. One at the entry point itself, one at the end of the straight line to catch any sprinters, especially if there's any branching.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Comments
Infact a good number of the complaints come from people who will die to damage regardless of the spell/source because they expect to simply be able to rambo in and go toe to toe with people who put far more into their characters.
I agree that the ceiling could certainly be lowered, or at least the gulf between have and have nots.shrunk so while you can still obtain an edge, it certainly won't offer the current disparity. But at the same time you shouldn't expect to simply be able to go in without any preparation or care and expect to be on a level playing field. At the same time people shouldn't have to put in exceptional time/effort/money to be competitive, as someone who does, I'd still expect an edge over those who don't, and certainly expect an advantage over those who do nothing at all.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
To be fair, it kind of depends on how much war buffs destruction. There was a time when no caster could pace a warrior in mob kills under any circumstances. I personally don't know if Mork used destruction or his katana. If he was using his destruction (as I suspect he was for at least a sizable portion of it just based on my conversations) then we have to consider why is his destruction outpacing his katana. The war domoth, since that was apparently an unknown until 10 seconds ago, might have something to do with it.
I can say with certainty that, as an Ascendant with war karma, the fire dmp buff curio, and a fire tattoo curio as a faeling, I will still not keeping pace with Xenthos on Astral.
We need to remember that it was 2 things that took geos from a powerful guild to a dude one shotting half the game. 1) raise staff and 2) champion artie. Things can and will push certain skills over the edge, which is why knowledge of them is important.
edit: I didn't know about war and destruction either.
The information was there to anyone who read the tooltips, it was mentioned several times on this forum during the whole whips discussion about how Destruction was affected by War Domoth, first by Iosai and then later by myself and Chade. The knowledge is there, and has been out for public record for a while.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Mork also bought magic damage rune etc. and maxed his damage out for destruction.
Oh right. Damage types.
Depends on the target, Destruction outpaces the Katana usually because target vulnerability comes into effect. Depending on what you were hunting on Astral, some aren't fire vulnerable (and are infact fire resistant) and Xenthos also has Clover/L3 crit. He also had the option of sticking his stat runes and fire runes on his bashing weapon because :pliers: Certainly when I've used destruction and he and I have gone head to head on Astral, I've picked up more corpses by the end of it.
Reasons it might hit harder? 20-21 int vs 18-19 str, L2 magic rune, fire tattoo/curio, and sometimes Sidd's there to drop Fireforte. War Domoth is just like adding extra on top.
Edit: And no f##king miss rate.
Edit of Edit: I've been using other caster abilities in lieu of destruction in some fights, heck I didn't even take Destruction for War Seal and found that I could do more damage without a min max setup of tattoo+curio. Ultimately as much as people want to rally around and scapegoat it, Destruction isn't the big bad imbalance issue. Kelly and Xena took Destruction and it doesn't do anywhere as much damage... unless they're taking out the newer people who haven't got tattoos/proofings/health pools worth a damn yet.
So you can argue about specific spells, but the overarching issue lies with caster damage and scaling in general there, and that's something both sides can (and sometimes do) take advantage of. It's in essence an arms race of mitigation vs damage boosting, and those not competing find themselves sorely lacking at both ends of the spectrum.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Yeah but I had all of that you just listed minus fireforte. I mean, you aren't the first person to powerbuff your destruction. :P It was my go to until Nightgaze damage typing was switched. And you can get all the same buffs for warrior weapons. (I mean, you probably won't since warrior damage in pk is crap).
Warriors would still surpass me even on lobstrosities or fesixes. I just mention Xenthos because he has the flexibility of blunt or cutting as he needs it. Admittedly, a big part of it was critical hit runes (Ardmore would always outpace me too, I think he had a level 4 and goodluck).
I'm just saying it's hard to say unless you know specifically how much War buffs destruction. I don't think it's fair to discount it without knowing.
It's damage-shift that evened the field for casters.
Damage types did absolutely nothing to even any playing fields at all whatsoever. They created a chance for a very limited segment of the population to be ridiculously powerful while everyone else continues to scramble just to find places they won't face a malus. Whips don't even the field either. Forcing some people to drop 3-600 credits to get access to divinus and fire damage doesn't create "an even field." It just makes it conceivably possible to reach the same level.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Yes, there is still variance in typing, some people got the short end of the stick, but warriors are not the far and above bashers they used to be
Right, I'm on a par with Xen for crit boosts and I tend to build a comfortable lead when we go head to head. So the issue likely was your lack of crits.
As for War, I really should run some tests on my beast pre/post grabbing it for the numbers, but the only difference I know is it takes roughly 45 minutes to clear 2 larva at 20-21 int with War, than the 55-60 minutes without.
Next time I do a handover to Sidd I'll run some numbers against my wyvern pre and post so we can numbercrunch.
Anyway, this is going off the topic somewhat. The min/max effect of caster damage is not attributed to one specific spell in PK, and it's an overarching effect that affects the general gulf between the casual and the "win at all costs" bleeding edge type. PK has a base line of investment requirement (that doesn't require RL cash) for people to compete, they complain about icewalls? You'd tell them to buy an ignite enchant. They complain about P5th? You'd tell them to buy a gust enchantment. They complain about damage? Why aren't we telling these people to tattoo up, build up alcohol resistance so they can base level amberbeer without getting drunk, invest in kirigami/robe proofings and about the various other potential means at their disposal to increase survivability?
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I had the log of Morbo, Leolamins, and whoever was leading Seren discussing it pending respective council opinions. Thalk even came to Enya as soon as he found out because it was a wtf? Moment. Yeah it was pushed by Morbo but all city leaders knew and on a level it was a mutual agreement
Info for Aegis:
Syntax: MANIFEST AEGIS FOR <person>
Essence: 10,000
The Domotheos of Justice lends an Ascendant its aegis, so that they may in turn shield another. Controlling the Domotheos of Justice partially disperses some of the damage before you receive it.
Info for Destruction:
Syntax: MANIFEST DESTRUCTION AT <victim>
Essence: 200 (vs players)
25 (vs denizens)
Type: 100% Fire
Source: Magical
The Domotheos of War is powerful and mighty, and so lends its destructive force to those who would draw upon it. Controlling the Domotheos of War grants a great increase to the damage caused by Destruction.
Info for FearAura:
Syntax: MANIFEST FEARAURA ON|OFF
Essence: 200 (to enable)
100 (to sustain)
The Domotheos of Death offers an eerie and unsettling manifestation of its power to those who seek it, the wailing spirits of the dead driving any present away in terror. Controlling the Domotheos of Death causes FearAura to tick faster.
Other powers used to be boosted by the linked Domoth; Omniscience, for example, applied to every member of your Cult if you held the Domoth. Apparently this was nixed when powers came out and Veneration was split off from them into its own thing, so not all Domoths are treated equally.
Anyways, back to domoths... if only three get the perks, then the perks need to be gone, simple as that, or other domoths also need to get perks of similar nature (Yay, more feature creep, which I personally feel isn't necessary). Also, should I note the fact that the text for Destruction is.... "grants a great increase to the damage caused by Destruction"?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
There's really a fundamental difference between telling people to get an ignite enchant and min/max their dmp resistances, which ties back to the original discussion of requiring too many balls in the air to be competitive.
One is a ring a ring to counter another ring that everyone has. The other a bunch of shit you have to maintain so you don't get facerolled by 3 or 4 specific players in the game.
Now, you know I've said I think the destruction argument is overblown. I don't think it's as atomically game breaking as it's made out to be. My issue is that it's better than every other damage attack out there (save maybe nightgaze/moonfire or whatever the MDs get) and not everyone can get it. Which I think then devolves into "only 3 people have it, there are bigger issues!" Which I think is a pretty big issue.
edit: Full disclosure, I play a healer wiccan. I don't even remember the last time I was damage killed. I tanked Shuyin and Synkarin destruction spamming my face without breaking a sweat. I still think the game would be better off without it and special snowflake ascendant abilities
I play Aslaran and get hit by Destruction from Kelly, even when I'm a tracker without Nightkiss it doesn't hit close to the damage it's ruining other people for.
Chade hits harder with Pyromancy than anyone does with destruction, so stop making a scapegoat out of a single ability.
Edit: Celina, you really think it's a push too far to tell people to invest in tattoos/proofings/kirigami and amberbeer? No artifact investment, no curio farming, just things you can get through trade skills that people in both alliances have?
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I issued it, so maybe we'll get an exact answer.
Anyway, remove them, that's fine. I feel like this is the 'giving squall a powercost' argument all over again. It's not going to make an overall difference, but you'll get your sense of victory. Good on you.
With that said, I am also fine with removing the domoth buff but if you expect it to have a significant impact on victory or loss then you're gonna have a bad time. That sort of thing is reserved for a forced even distribution of play to win characters across orgs. Or hekoskeri. Harr harr.
PS the comparison between ignite enchants and minmaxing damage is pretty silly. Where is my wtf button.
Also Chade's staff cast isn't where his crazy damage is coming from right now, but that's just by the by.
Edit:
PS the comparison between ignite enchants and minmaxing damage is pretty silly. Where is my wtf button.
No one said that, I said that we expect people to have ignite for walls, gust for bards but when they get damaged out the first thing to do is complain about the damage and not go "Well you've no tattoos, no proofings, no kirigami, no amberbeer, all of which you can get through purely in game means very easily." I don't get why that is, they all are in my mind part of the entry level requirements into combat, and organisations can help mitigate the costs very easily if necessary.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Well my argument is that a cluster of special snowflakes with special attacks does indeed have a noticable impact on game wide conflict. If you have a group of people suddenly doing a lot more damage, that does make a difference. I'm not saying it's the win button or that you'd all be screwed without it (see: choke argument). I am saying things like this make the chasm impossibly large and unfair.
FYI: @Elanorwen: anecdotes with no logs do nobody any favors. Dor do random mentions of Pyro pollute (holocaust?) as comparisons to destruction, @Morkarion.
Now personally, I don't consider Vernal Ascendants to be worthy investments for organizations. Even given their use in capable hands, they still increase dependence in some form on specific individuals, who can betray that trust by leaving your organization or going awol. It also puts pressure on the ascendants to be around and play the game in the areas where ascendancy matters the most like Domoths. For example, in Magnagora, I find Akyaevin interesting. He's quiet, neutral, and he generally displays little interest in anything other than Domoths. Now he will participate in other conflicts, but when he speaks publicly it is predominately about domoths. It just makes me wonder if he really enjoys those conflicts or if it is just out of a sense of obligation.
I believe that one step in making conflict more relevant has to start with making power more useful. Lately, I've been thinking about the mechanic behind guards. I like the underlying logic. Benefits and improvements that are limited by power maintenance costs. For example, what if domoths drained power from organizations instead of generating it as a cost for the benefits they give?
Guards aren't useless. You just don't ever see their use because they are so effective at what they do when used correctly. Remove guards and you'd quickly realize their value.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Celest has 3 entrances, Mag has 4.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.