Help Files/Documentation

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  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess Member Posts: 2,927 Transcendent
    Neos said:
    I use gmcp.Char.Skills to determine what bashing/combat skill for my attack alias to use and along with a few other stuff. Iosai or Ieptix or maybe Roark once outlined what all the various item flags were, but I didn't save and forgot them and my memory is failing me.
    You should see my bashing function. It contains settings for two whips, generator, staff, music, all researcher weapons, different knighthood specs, different beast bashing settings - i.e. raze only or attack freely, different raze options (cleave, raze, evoke void, invoke nullify, sprinkle sulfur, beast raze) So yeah... good luck accomplishing all that with just gmcp... not to mention, again, you're better off not relying on it and having to modify it when the random unannounced, undocumented gmcp update rolls around.
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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,863 Transcendent
    I don't know why you bother, two whips and destruction should be all you need for damaging attacks, the only variable should be your shield stripper.

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  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess Member Posts: 2,927 Transcendent
    Karlach said:
    I don't know why you bother, two whips and destruction should be all you need for damaging attacks, the only variable should be your shield stripper.
    I don't have destruction, and I do more damage with my staff/generator than I do with whips, especially on targets that are weak to electrical. Certain cases, I like to be able to use bard music, too. (And yes, there is also a setting for minor second/loralchord)
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  • IasmosIasmos Member Posts: 461 Virtuoso
    The 'g' means the item is groupable (riftable).

  • RialormRialorm Member Posts: 1,055 Transcendent
    @Elanorwen: I was indeed thinking of just fetching the highest skills a user has available. I'll keep it very simple, have an alias that detects it as part of the bsinstall routine and keep the user result cached in a file. Then when something changes (learn skills, receive TF) it reruns the detection and uses the new result. I could go fancy and do like automated detection and what not but this seems clean and simple to me.
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  • NeosNeos The Subtle Griefer Member Posts: 1,538 Transcendent
    Elanorwen said:
    Neos said:
    I use gmcp.Char.Skills to determine what bashing/combat skill for my attack alias to use and along with a few other stuff. Iosai or Ieptix or maybe Roark once outlined what all the various item flags were, but I didn't save and forgot them and my memory is failing me.
    You should see my bashing function. It contains settings for two whips, generator, staff, music, all researcher weapons, different knighthood specs, different beast bashing settings - i.e. raze only or attack freely, different raze options (cleave, raze, evoke void, invoke nullify, sprinkle sulfur, beast raze) So yeah... good luck accomplishing all that with just gmcp... not to mention, again, you're better off not relying on it and having to modify it when the random unannounced, undocumented gmcp update rolls around.
    I don't go all into that, my alias checks what my primary skillset is currently, which beasts I have with me, whether I have a whip wielded or not,  and for one instance, what area I'm in, and changes what is sent based on all that. Since I won't be picking up any other skillsets soon, I don't need to worry about any of them, though outside of warrior, it's not difficult adding it in, and I never intend to pick up warrior. If there's a change that breaks my code, I just need to edit the functions that are called and not the alias.
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  • ReylReyl Member Posts: 147 Adept
    edited August 2014
    I'm actually doing something much more frivolous lmao so it's no huge issue. And yea in regards to this:
    Ssaliss said:
    When it comes to the skills, if the package is activated, the groups are automatically fetched on login and comes like this: Char.Skills.Groups [ { "name": "Combat", "rank": "Expert" }, { "name": "Lorecraft", "rank": "Transcendent" } ]

    You can then get a specific list of skills by using

    Char.Skills.Get { "group": "Lorecraft" }

    The list received by that looks like this:

    Char.Skills.List { "group": "lorecraft", "list": [ "Fire", "Jasmine", "Frost", "Invisibility", "Vanilla", "Galvanism", "Sanguine", "DragonsBlood", "Preservation", "Choleric", "Sandalwood", "Phlegmatic", "Melancholic", "Musk", "Sharpness", "Constructs", "Vitae", "PhilosopherStone" ] }

    I think you can get an even more detailed list by some method, but I've never really played around with that.

    As for the flags, "t" likely means "takeable", i.e. you can pick it up during normal circumstances (obviously, some things might still prevent you from picking it up, like flame sigils etc.) I can't recall having seen "e", but I'm sure we could figure it out if we put our heads together.
    and the topic at hand, that's what i USED to get, and that's what I get with Char.Skills.Get { "group": "Tailoring" }  for example. but with a lot of the other skills the list is just returned saying { "special" }, and for some others it returns nothing at all.... which makes me feel like either there's a bug, or the syntax has changed somehow, which is why I would LOVE a definitive up-to-date helpfile. Dealing with my own incompetance is hard enough when I can't rely on what's going on at the server end of things lmao. 

    EDIT: @Elanorwen yes, I thought so, but since I only had herbs on me and not food I thought it MIGHT have been 'hErb' lmao. Any thoughts on 'f', on an unruned ruby vial? I'm thinking it's either 'f' for 'fluid container', or 'f' for 'full', what do you think?
  • VetalaVetala Member Posts: 145 Adept
    edited August 2014
    Perhaps a mention of the "helpsearch <searchstr>" syntax in the help index and "help help"?

    Edit: In case it wasn't clear why, help vs helpsearch is comparable to google's "i'm feeling lucky" vs "search", respectively. Helpsearch doesn't open a best match or organization helpfile, just displays the results.
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Reyl said:
    I'm actually doing something much more frivolous lmao so it's no huge issue. And yea in regards to this:

    ...

     and the topic at hand, that's what i USED to get, and that's what I get with Char.Skills.Get { "group": "Tailoring" }  for example. but with a lot of the other skills the list is just returned saying { "special" }, and for some others it returns nothing at all.... which makes me feel like either there's a bug, or the syntax has changed somehow, which is why I would LOVE a definitive up-to-date helpfile. Dealing with my own incompetance is hard enough when I can't rely on what's going on at the server end of things lmao. 
    Examples of skills that return "special"? I don't think either of mine does...
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  • ReylReyl Member Posts: 147 Adept
    Here's the lot, for what it's worth:
    1. combat: returns a list of 5 consecutive empty strings ("")
    2. discernment: returns [group = "telekinesis"], 5 more empty strings. Wat?
    3. Highmagic: only works as "high magic", returns [list={"i"}]
    4. Planar: tried it, but it would only display "high magic" again.
    5. Discipline: As above.
    6. Environment: Typed AB in between, and now it's back to Telekinesis again. Still empty.
    7. Influence: Now we get it to actually acknowledge influence as the group, only to return "special"
    8. Dramatics: Doesn't work, stays on influence. Tried "Drama" instead, that returns [list = "i"]
    9. Arts: doesn't work. "Art" returns "i" again.
    10. Beastmastery: Doesn't work.
    11. Tailoring: Works as intended! Yay
    12. Elementalism: Doesn't work.
    13. Geomancy: Doesn't work
    14. Psionics: acknowlegdes the group exists, but only returns the 5 empty strings
    15. Telekinesis: Group returned ok, list = 5 empty strings
    16. Illusions: Doesn't work. "Illusion" without the 's' returns the AB file for the basic illusion in plain text???
    17. Phantasms: Doesn't work
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Odd, I get those skills without a problem. My best guess is that it's a client/scripting problem and not a problem with Lusternia.
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  • ReylReyl Member Posts: 147 Adept
    We have a solution! Or we will, eventually. 

    <3 Ieptix
  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    Hate to be that guy and necro this, but is there any word on throwing together a HELP DEMIGODPOWERS or something of the like?  Just something to give a basic rundown of the system would be nice.
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  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess Member Posts: 2,927 Transcendent
    I shall add a bit to the necro and mention that the new features of in-game aliases to have multiple commands per alias should be documented.
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    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • MayleaMaylea Member, Gods Posts: 184 Divine
    edited November 2015
    [A reminder of the purpose of the thread; originally the first post of the accidental second thread.]

    We get a lot of submissions for improvements to the helpfiles from both the IDEA and BUG commands, but sometimes you just can't explain that sort of thing in a single paragraph. Maybe you want to illustrate your point with an example, or it would just be a Giant Paragraph o' Doom to try and articulate your idea in that vein. But your suggestions are amazing and really help us. They point out things that we (as administrators) probably have no idea about: we don't use the helpfiles in the same way you do, so we're not able to see some of the problems with them.

    To that end, I'm conducting a bit of an experiment with this forum thread. I'd like to invite you to make such suggestions here. This thread shouldn't be used for 'errors' in helpfiles: if you spot a typo, or a piece of incorrect information, please use the HELPBUG command ingame. This is more for things like alerting us to the fact that newbies find kata really hard to understand based on the ABHELP explanations, or that finding some helpfiles isn't intuitive with the keywords available, that sort of thing.

    I obviously can't promise that we will implement all of your suggestions, and we'll obviously be attending to them alongside other things (like fixing errors and updating things to be in line with the Overhaul as it continues). But we will be looking at them and discussing them, so please, suggest away :)

    Thank you!
    Post edited by Maylea on
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,805 Transcendent
    I'm not sure if this is the place to ask for it, but an update to HELP GODS and who is active would be great.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • MayleaMaylea Member, Gods Posts: 184 Divine
    Just for reference: "coding" changes are not things that I am personally able to bring about. What I can do is create helpfiles and modify their contents. Feel free to make suggestions for things like making ABs available to everyone, but be aware that all I can do regarding such ideas is pass them along to those that can.

    When you say EQ/balance costs, you mean listing what the ability requires/consumes, yes?

    And Shaddus, HELP GODS is indeed on my list of things to do, and that is precisely the sort of thing to ask for here :)
  • ViynainViynain Member Posts: 253 Master
    Mmkay.

    And yes, please.
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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    Check out ENVOYHELP ABSTYLEGUIDE for my suggestions on a standardized AB file format. The example I provided contains every field I could think of, in the order I believe they should be presented with the sort order I think they should possess. Below the example is a step-by-step guide describing the formatting used in each section of the AB.

    The idea is to pull relevant mechanical information out of the skill abstract, so that it's easy and quick to access that information. Having a standardized presentation of it in direct, concrete language will help avoid misreadings of vague descriptions, without requiring verbose and unwieldy descriptions.


  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,805 Transcendent
    I still want to know what the heck a Whacher is.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    It's a watcher spelled poetically. 
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    Probably complicated because our skill system is complicated but one thing that was kinda cool that Imperian did was to give a bit of information about each class. What your main balance type is, a simple description of each skill and what to expect from it (like pve or pvp exclusive use, full of utility), and then what your combat focus is. 

    I feel like this is information that could be helpful to less experienced players, yes it is something that typically other players should be passing on and some will figure it out on their own, but having it in helpfiles that newbies can be directed to means they can make more informed decisions about the playstyle of the choice they are making.


    Of course, it is a bit easier for them as they have only 20 potential skillsets as opposed to our... 158? potential variations.

    Maybe like... Help Moondancer Skills for the brief explanation of each skill and Help Moondancer Combat to provide the quick summary of what to aim for in combat.

    Viynain said:
    please make using AB <skillset> <skill> available for any skillset for anyone.  
    AB <skill> <ability> :P

    Actually can that be fixed, we've got two conventions at work in the help files. 

    Afaik... 
    "Skillset" refers to your set of skills i.e Wicca, Moon, Healing, plus technically everything else that is listed with "AB" or "SKILLS"

    "Skill" refers to individual skills. So Moon is a skill, Lowmagic is a skill.

    "Ability" refers to the things that make up a skill, so flow, barkskin, and torc are all abilities in the nature skill.


    Like... the forget command uses "skillset" while skillchoice uses "skill". Looks like a change that just kinda happened after a certain point though.
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  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark AustraliaMember Posts: 3,365 Transcendent
    Not strictly an AB HELP but maybe a regular help file? Some of the information regarding what demigod powers actually do is extremely vague, as well as avatar powers. I would love to see it explained somewhere. Also, the cost of making dormant demigod powers supernumerary, I can't find it anywhere. Can anyone point me to it? What is the %? (It could maybe be added to each powers info as a separate line, ie there is the cost to buy, and a cost to make supernumerary from ephemeral perhaps?)



  • AkyaevinAkyaevin Member Posts: 586 Fabled
    10%.
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    If HELP GUARDS can be filled in with all the different attacks, different effects of each attack, and chances for each attack to fire for each different guard, that'd be great.

  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Lavinya said:
    Not strictly an AB HELP but maybe a regular help file? Some of the information regarding what demigod powers actually do is extremely vague, as well as avatar powers. I would love to see it explained somewhere. Also, the cost of making dormant demigod powers supernumerary, I can't find it anywhere. Can anyone point me to it? What is the %? (It could maybe be added to each powers info as a separate line, ie there is the cost to buy, and a cost to make supernumerary from ephemeral perhaps?)
    I think this would be better suited to be expanded in POWERS INFO <power> (at least I think that's the syntax). But yes, some really do need clarification.
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  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,474 Transcendent
    It might be nice for there to be a HELP DESIGNING file that details the commands available to Trademasters, and explains how to use them. I'd suggest adding it to HELP TRADEMASTERS if that file weren't bursting at the seams to begin with. One thing that I would like to see in that file is the equivalency for odd colours that tints don't exist for, like Faeleaf being used for silver/grey, or coal being usable for black, and for odd commodities that might not be readily apparent at first glance, like nuts being under fruit commodities, vanilla falling under spices, or caramel requiring sugar. I know that we can generally ask and get those answers in short order, and some of them are obvious in hindsight, but it's not always the case and might save some headache if it were in a file that more than just TMs had access to.
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,624 Transcendent
    How about consolidating and updating HELP HERBS and HELP PLANTS and include warnings about strip harvesting, hibernation and peak months.

    Also, in HELP ASTRAL, maybe include something about the horrors of draining astral nodes to zero.
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,474 Transcendent
    A note in HELP CURELIST/AFFLICTIONS relating to the overhaul would be nice, if you can't get to cleaning it up, or if it's too much work to keep up to date while the overhaul is happening. Also, the MXP from HELP HEALINGYOURSELF to HELP CURELIST seems to be broken.
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