Magnagora was refused our bid to form a formal agreement, with anyone. We don't even have signed peace treaties. We were told Glom would 'consider' an arrangement AFTER we removed the brand on Maeve, which the admin told us is impossible. (Though that reminds me, someone the other day gave me a great IC avenue on that which I need to remember to follow up on). But basically that tells us what Glomdoring think of us in the first place. And they wonder why things get heated between us, tch. 'Remove the brand and we'll talk', 'muzzle Munsia and we'll talk', 'publically reprimand Marcella or we will never even think about talking'...like Llandros said. It's true and ridiculous. Friendships are two way streets.
On an in-character basis, there's "talking to mobs" and there's "working to do something about it". Being told by the admin that it's "not possible" is not the same as it actually being not possible (Celest was told time and time again that it was impossible to remove the bracelet from Raziela, yet it became possible once there was enough player interest in seeing it occur).
From Glom's standpoint, a concerted effort to keep bringing it up repeatedly as things go, in concert with Glomdoring (working together), would pretty much entirely satisfy the requirements. On an OOC level, we know you can't make the admin do something, but knowing that you were trying- and not just that, but trying with us- would (from our end) satisfy the "two-way street" you mention.
It would basically be like if we had a daisy-chain necklace wrapped around Gorgulu's neck that occasionally made him smell like a pretty flower and that you could not remove. It's tough to have a concretely defined relationship when at its base is a rotting worm that one side wants to ignore and the other side can't.
You are acting like Marcella's opinion came out of nowhere.
I've had multiple people from Glomdoring tell me they wont help because of Munsia.
And you are right, everyone from Mag did pull out, because of Belibis "Is Mag going to do its own thing and ignore us working together," when no one said over Crux that Glom was taking it up to that point.
You aren't innocent in this case.
I also like how you feel my OOC opinion on it is relevant. I can't wait till someone ICly claims I hate Glom when I've only ever said it on the forums.
not to throw fuel on the fire here but I was there for this popularly
mentioned revolt and frankly there is a very big difference between 'disliking' an org/community, and attempting to deliberately sabotage them..which is
overboard.
I recall specifically walking into rooms and seeing
Marcella attempting to shatter glomdoring members...Xenthos being one of
them. How is that not to be construed as a personal attack upon an
allied organization?
Members of an alliance refusing to assist
because of Munsia's generally bossy, and I admit at times strongworded,
leadership, and then members of an alliance actually attacking other
members...are on two very different levels and frankly just cause more strife and turmoil in an already fragile alliance (which truth be told I wouldnt be surprised if much of the Old school 'hate glom' mag crowd would be grateful if it fell..).
Well, the bigger issue was that there was no guarantee. It was 'see it done and we might deign to speak with you', not 'see it done and we'll talk details'. (To me at least). I actually wanted there to be more IC looking into it as it were and would have dived into it myself but it was around the time I took a break from the game.
I recall specifically walking into rooms and seeing
Marcella attempting to shatter glomdoring members...Xenthos being one of
them. How is that not to be construed as a personal attack upon an
allied organization?
Members of an alliance refusing to assist
because of Munsia's generally bossy, and I admit at times strongworded,
leadership, and then members of an alliance actually attacking other
members...are on two very different levels and frankly just cause more strife and turmoil in an already fragile alliance (which truth be told I wouldnt be surprised if much of the Old school 'hate glom' mag crowd would be grateful if it fell..).
To be fair, debating has almost always been an "acceptable" thing for allied organizations in a village influence. Usually it is reserved for when all of the enemies are dead and it settles down to a "gentleman's race" of influencing and debating without attacking.
In this case it was going on instead of actually working to kill off the enemies so we could get to that stage, which is a bit counterproductive, but you really shouldn't take debating itself as being an attack. It's not really considered one. I think I mentioned that on Swarm when you mentioned it, too.
Well, the bigger issue was that there was no guarantee. It was 'see it done and we might deign to speak with you', not 'see it done and we'll talk details'. (To me at least). I actually wanted there to be more IC looking into it as it were and would have dived into it myself but it was around the time I took a break from the game.
You're right, that's where it started on an in-character basis, mostly because of how the thing has dragged on so long. Part of negotiation and making deals is compromise, though! If at that time we had put together a joint-organization group to study and work towards it (including continually talking to various entities on all sides, having Nihilists attempt to roleplay out removing the branding or attempting to weaken it, and just little RP sessions showing that it was being worked on instead of "letting it lie"), I am absolutely positive that other things would also have been able to go forward as well.
I think it could've actually led to some fun / excellent RP between both orgs that could have been beneficial towards addressing some of our overarching long-term issues, but it just kind of got shut off right from the word go.
EDIT: Xenthos types faster than I do. But yes, I think you get the point, Arcanis!
Uhh....as stated quite a few times, we DON'T have an alliance. No proper agreement at all. None. Not even a written statement of 'we won't do X, and you won't do X, agreed.' @Arcanis, you're making some judgements and making accusations without most of the information. You've been gone a while. This is nothing new - there have been a few revolts like it, some where Glom were the aggressors first. There are two sides rubbing each other the wrong way, not good guys and bad guys.
You are acting like Marcella's opinion came out of nowhere.
I've had multiple people from Glomdoring tell me they wont help because of Munsia.
And you are right, everyone from Mag did pull out, because of Belibis "Is Mag going to do its own thing and ignore us working together," when no one said over Crux that Glom was taking it up to that point.
You aren't innocent in this case.
I also like how you feel my OOC opinion on it is relevant. I can't wait till someone ICly claims I hate Glom when I've only ever said it on the forums.
not to throw fuel on the fire here but I was there for this popularly
mentioned revolt and frankly there is a very big difference between 'disliking' an org/community, and attempting to deliberately sabotage them..which is
overboard.
I recall specifically walking into rooms and seeing
Marcella attempting to shatter glomdoring members...Xenthos being one of
them. How is that not to be construed as a personal attack upon an
allied organization?
Members of an alliance refusing to assist
because of Munsia's generally bossy, and I admit at times strongworded,
leadership, and then members of an alliance actually attacking other
members...are on two very different levels and frankly just cause more strife and turmoil in an already fragile alliance (which truth be told I wouldnt be surprised if much of the Old school 'hate glom' mag crowd would be grateful if it fell..).
Ah, I had not noticed there is no actual agreed upon alliance and accords. Well in that case...carry on
But this is crux of the problem (see what I did there). When you have no structure to deal with interpersonal conflict, opposing ideologies and consistent and agreed upon by all parties involved ways to handle flares/revolts/wildnodes then things devolve from lets all get along, to I'm taking my ball and going home, to I'll see you bastards burn in hell!!1!11!!
If we want to get into IC reasons, hell yes I treat all gloms with the same brush - the big, giant, most huge issue she(I) have is that Kethaera wears a lover's earring so she needs to die and Glom needs to die for supporting the Lovers, since she's the Ambassador.
Same reason she hates Hallifax, because they're a collective who raised a VA collectively who happened to spit in her face and refuse a duel after it because she was angry about it and slapped a city enemyhood on instead.
Marcella is not the most logical person for reasons to burn organizations to the ground.
I find this rather entertaining. Your duel request got refused, and then we fought either way... it was 1:1 for what... 20 minutes during which you did your best to run into the college, hide repeatedly, and lichseed 3 times in a row. I call this a laughable attempt at a fight. And even then, I was running PB warrior which is ultimately not a spec I'm good at. At the same time, you repeatedly drained power from Elanorwen until we both ended up at 0... which was again, laughable, considering the fact that I used up maybe 30-40% of my reserves. But congratulations on holding onto a petty grudge for so long. There was a point in time when I thought you actually were an honorable person. That illusion has fallen since.
Additionally, any citizen that you choose to challenge to a duel has the right to refuse, and any citizen has the right to ask you to remove yourself from the city's territory. The enemy status was granted for your refusal to remove yourself from there, which you were warned would happen and then chose to ignore. Keep at it some more.
When one gets gusted into and killed by guards multiple times, and constantly hit by statues thanks to unresistable beast gust moving, it doesn't tend to be a satisfying 1v1.
I get way more progress done on my IC writing projects when I'm logged out. Must keep this in mind for the future.
6
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited July 2014
I would say Magnagora's consistent and reliable refusal to do anything about their local pit bull constantly drooling and snapping at people does not make Glom eager to give Magnagora any sort of leeway. It's essentially tacit approval for her actions, and no matter the avenue Glom uses to bring it up, it continues. We're just talking common decency things. So far the response as been, "That's just Munsia!" or "But but but you have them too."
I think most people don't care what's acceptable in Mag, especially if you've already kicked her out twice. Giving her privileges to abuse over Crux just demonstrates poor judgement.
Gloms also know that Glom's version, aka me, doesn't pull the same stunts. No constant tirades about being the best melder or unwarranted verbal abuse. No killing of Mags. In fact, Glom knows I just happened to be one of the biggest proponents of Mag/Glom alliance, and continued to be for a long while, and have not laid a hand on a Mag as a result.
You can't just let your dog run wild, pooping and digging in the neighbors yard and act like you never saw the 18 notes on the door. Then invite them over for a picnic and expect them not to bring it up. Which is exactly what Mag is doing. "Oh sorry about that revolt...our bad...want to help with our domoth?"
The situation is then exacerbated by things like Marcella and co's unwarranted stunt, or the other revolt clashes. Mag has a teeny tiny memory, and has apparently forgotten Glom literally gave them domoths (I remember, because I told Svorai this was stupid and it was going to backfire) and Mag has now taken to biting the hand that fed them. So I would say no, Glom hasn't been too keen on Mag and I feel like Mag's blame shifting really just makes it worse as time goes on.
edit: In this my character diverges from Xenthos. Celina has pushed to not dangle the Maeve thing over Mag's head as if it can just be done away with. It's more about a complete lack of accountability in Magnagora and a failing chain of command.
* Let's make someone a rebirth egg! Gotta be cool*
crowsnest rebirth for haezon
Watching Haezon warily, you begin to stuff handfuls of rancid meat and carrion into your mouth, gulping hungrily. You begin to cough and hack, as though something was lodged in your throat. You struggle and claw at the growing bulge that chokes your windpipe.
Just as your awareness begins to fade and the edge of your vision blurs, you slam your hands against your breast and, with a terrible hacking noise, clear the obstruction from your throat. Picking the object up, you eye it warily, its slick surface and oval shape composing a rancid black egg. Suddenly it leaps from your hands, landing in Haezon's arms.
Marcella said: If we want to get into IC reasons, hell yes I treat all gloms with the same brush - the big, giant, most huge issue she(I) have is that Kethaera wears a lover's earring so she needs to die and Glom needs to die for supporting the Lovers, since she's the Ambassador.
"Expressing support for the Lovers"- hmm. I understand the IC reasoning behind that thought, but to Kethaera, the earring is only symbolic in the sense that it's a heart-shaped piece of spite that causes irrational anger in certain people. And that's pretty funny.
Shrug. Seems like the problems between Glom and Mag would be simple enough to solve if anyone cared to.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
No, don't solve them, I am trying to court Ixion on the side and I don't want that hussy Xenthos to break anything.
You tramp. How dare you scorn our love.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
No, don't solve them, I am trying to court Ixion on the side and I don't want that hussy Xenthos to break anything.
You tramp. How dare you scorn our love.
Ixion taught me some very new things.
Are they as amazing as our Razielan Daisy-Chain? Our Slaugh Special? Our Gorgulu Gimp?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Marcella said: If we want to get into IC reasons, hell yes I treat all gloms with the same brush - the big, giant, most huge issue she(I) have is that Kethaera wears a lover's earring so she needs to die and Glom needs to die for supporting the Lovers, since she's the Ambassador.
"Expressing support for the Lovers"- hmm. I understand the IC reasoning behind that thought, but to Kethaera, the earring is only symbolic in the sense that it's a heart-shaped piece of spite that causes irrational anger in certain people. And that's pretty funny.
Shrug. Seems like the problems between Glom and Mag would be simple enough to solve if anyone cared to.
Yeah, I was going to get unenemied so I walked up to you and saw it. During that whole event, I made a public news post that "anyone seen wearing this earring will be slain." Of course, that was before they gave out those earrings to player - every NPC in Mag that wore it ended up murdered, of course.
Since I'm a colossal wimp I just decided to huff at you, spit on the ground, and walk away instead of declaring you though. ;-;
I personally regret missing that event, as I would have adored and awed with the best of them. Most I could do was give praise through facebook. Ah well, im sure those star-crossed lovers will return again someday.
Marcella said: If we want to get into IC reasons, hell yes I treat all gloms with the same brush - the big, giant, most huge issue she(I) have is that Kethaera wears a lover's earring so she needs to die and Glom needs to die for supporting the Lovers, since she's the Ambassador.
"Expressing support for the Lovers"- hmm. I understand the IC reasoning behind that thought, but to Kethaera, the earring is only symbolic in the sense that it's a heart-shaped piece of spite that causes irrational anger in certain people. And that's pretty funny.
Shrug. Seems like the problems between Glom and Mag would be simple enough to solve if anyone cared to.
Yeah, I was going to get unenemied so I walked up to you and saw it. During that whole event, I made a public news post that "anyone seen wearing this earring will be slain." Of course, that was before they gave out those earrings to player - every NPC in Mag that wore it ended up murdered, of course.
Since I'm a colossal wimp I just decided to huff at you, spit on the ground, and walk away instead of declaring you though. ;-;
I really, really wish the Iron Membership would warn you before it renews. I let it lapse because money would be slightly tight over the next few weeks, and now I have to explain to my wife how we now only have 11$ in our account. /sigh.
Oh well.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
From Glom's standpoint, a concerted effort to keep bringing it up repeatedly as things go, in concert with Glomdoring (working together), would pretty much entirely satisfy the requirements. On an OOC level, we know you can't make the admin do something, but knowing that you were trying- and not just that, but trying with us- would (from our end) satisfy the "two-way street" you mention.
It would basically be like if we had a daisy-chain necklace wrapped around Gorgulu's neck that occasionally made him smell like a pretty flower and that you could not remove. It's tough to have a concretely defined relationship when at its base is a rotting worm that one side wants to ignore and the other side can't.
And was ignored until she spoke up about Celest.
not to throw fuel on the fire here but I was there for this popularly mentioned revolt and frankly there is a very big difference between 'disliking' an org/community, and attempting to deliberately sabotage them..which is overboard.
I recall specifically walking into rooms and seeing Marcella attempting to shatter glomdoring members...Xenthos being one of them. How is that not to be construed as a personal attack upon an allied organization?
Members of an alliance refusing to assist because of Munsia's generally bossy, and I admit at times strongworded, leadership, and then members of an alliance actually attacking other members...are on two very different levels and frankly just cause more strife and turmoil in an already fragile alliance (which truth be told I wouldnt be surprised if much of the Old school 'hate glom' mag crowd would be grateful if it fell..).
In this case it was going on instead of actually working to kill off the enemies so we could get to that stage, which is a bit counterproductive, but you really shouldn't take debating itself as being an attack. It's not really considered one. I think I mentioned that on Swarm when you mentioned it, too.
I think it could've actually led to some fun / excellent RP between both orgs that could have been beneficial towards addressing some of our overarching long-term issues, but it just kind of got shut off right from the word go.
Uhh....as stated quite a few times, we DON'T have an alliance. No proper agreement at all. None. Not even a written statement of 'we won't do X, and you won't do X, agreed.' @Arcanis, you're making some judgements and making accusations without most of the information. You've been gone a while. This is nothing new - there have been a few revolts like it, some where Glom were the aggressors first. There are two sides rubbing each other the wrong way, not good guys and bad guys.
crowsnest rebirth for haezon
Watching Haezon warily, you begin to stuff handfuls of rancid meat and carrion into your mouth,
gulping hungrily. You begin to cough and hack, as though something was lodged in your throat. You
struggle and claw at the growing bulge that chokes your windpipe.
Just as your awareness begins to fade and the edge of your vision blurs, you slam your hands against
your breast and, with a terrible hacking noise, clear the obstruction from your throat. Picking the
object up, you eye it warily, its slick surface and oval shape composing a rancid black egg.
Suddenly it leaps from your hands, landing in Haezon's arms.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am both mortified..and amused.
"Expressing support for the Lovers"- hmm. I understand the IC reasoning behind that thought, but to Kethaera, the earring is only symbolic in the sense that it's a heart-shaped piece of spite that causes irrational anger in certain people. And that's pretty funny.
Signature!
Signature!
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Are they as amazing as our Razielan Daisy-Chain? Our Slaugh Special? Our Gorgulu Gimp?
Why you gotta hate love!
Oh well.
I like it.
Just not when 75% of the forest has reverted. (I may be exaggerating, but I nearly went through 6 powerstones)
:-w
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Uh, unless the double negative was written as meant.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."