Not a fan of paying for race traits, it makes sense to me that it would unlock automatically at demigod...but I get it's replacing the current stat powers. I always hated that most of my weight went on stats to stay competitive. I actually thought the whole point of this race overhaul was to not make it a requirement to min max to be effective, it seems silly that you have to actually choose to unlock your racial abilities. If they want us to spend essence on them, then at least make them unweighted. If that means tweaking current weights on other powers (and maybe the addition of new demipowers, maybe some of the never used ascendant powers could be brought in like the one that gives random comms) I'm all for it. At the moment, most demigod weight is spent on the 'must haves' with a little room left over for choosing between pk powers or flavour ones. I personally hate it and loved the direction stat-less races are going to improve this aspect of the game. Keep flowing in that direction, don't keep the same flawed system!
The big question to me is do I just pay once to unlock demirace, or would I have to pay and juggle 4/5/6 powers if I swap around due to cameo? Further, if one were to buy the artifact, would they get the demi power free?
The big question to me is do I just pay once to unlock demirace, or would I have to pay and juggle 4/5/6 powers if I swap around due to cameo? Further, if one were to buy the artifact, would they get the demi power free?
It is a single power for all races.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
If one buys the artifact, they get the demipower free, but does not get the tier 5 power. The artifact as presented literally just bumps you up a tier. So, buy it at level 50 and you get the demigod power for free at level 50, yes.
Missed income opportunity. Assuming 5-20 weight, first level one costs... 200 credits. Jump to 600 or so for the second level. Still no where near as nice or efficient for the credits as manna (which is +50 weight for 1kish credits iirc?) but it doesn't have the larger price tag attached to it.
Just throwing numbers out there, obviously. Since we've no clue what they'll price at, suppose it's pointless speculation at this point.
The system is perfect, because there won't be any races with speed differences or races that are bad at ok. Any suggestion that you shouldn't have to lose mechanical flavor to get that benefit gets you sent to the pillory.
Roar spend essense now I can hug people! Who needs synergy?
Missed income opportunity. Assuming 5-20 weight, first level one costs... 200 credits. Jump to 600 or so for the second level. Still no where near as nice or efficient for the credits as manna (which is +50 weight for 1kish credits iirc?) but it doesn't have the larger price tag attached to it.
Just throwing numbers out there, obviously. Since we've no clue what they'll price at, suppose it's pointless speculation at this point.
Manna is 30 weight for 1.1k credits
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Oh man. So first unique race traits get moved to demigod. Not happy about it but fine. And now you have to buy them too?
The idea for statless races in my world was for them to have unique, flavour, RP or utility skills (like dracnari pipe lighting). But now these skills are inflated to combat-useful porpotions and you have to buy them on top of it. Which is something not everyone will do due to... weight stuff?
What makes a dwarf really unique now? It certainly has nothing to do with being able to hold their liquor. Le sigh.
Some other notes about the current no-race system after a quick review:
- Lucidian/Trill perk: Lucidians with aeonics gain a 1/10 bonus to excorable and magical, while Trills with aeonics gain 1/10 bonus to divinus and magical? Im assuming this is a mistype, or was it in fact planned this way?
- Faelings: Faelings gain a 2/4 divinus resistance buff...yet I do not understand how this makes sense. Why are faelings suddenly resistant to divinus damage? They are fae, not angelic beings. In truth, this somewhat looks like a shady sneak-in (looks, not is) for a buff to a popular race pick. Additionally, with class users gaining buffs to excorable and poison damage, faelings are looking to be pretty powerful with a resistance to one of the main damage sources and a buff to the other.
- Mugwump: Alot of the abilities in races seem to just be focused on influencing, was this from a lack of time to think up new concepts or was intended this way? I found several races receiving interesting concepts and abilities, but mugwumps not as much. They are gaining a small mana regen boost, the ability to leap (or faster leap if they have leap already which, let's face it, with level 1 wonderwings everyone does), enhanced empowering and charity influence and finally the 'demi' power of reduced mana cost on spells and abilities. I'd suggest removing the influencing perk and replacing it with the 'reduced mana cost' perk, and thus introducing something more interesting as a 'demi' power.
- Gnome/Fink: This is perhaps the most troubling part I found. Gnomes and Finks are specifically a restricted race available only by purchase, and the main appeal of buying Gnome and Fink was their special engorged stat (Highest Int race on Gnome and highest Dex on Fink (which with their good con and acceptable strength made them very good warriors). With the removal of stats, I would have assumed Gnomes and Finks are gaining something else as appealing, since in the end they are a product being sold. I found the selection of abilities given to them to be subpar.
Gnome:
2/4 poison resistance (which still has yet to be explained from where this resistance came from). 2/4 electrical resistance (im assuming this is based on their habits of tinkering with gadgets) Increased village influence attacks (Not bad but very situational..additionally I could see people in the future complaining about a "purchase to win" mechanic. Meaning this will be seen as both underbuffed and overbuffed in its own way) Reduced EQ when using grid and chair (Again, very situational. Aetherspace is not all that used, nor will the fact of having faster chair and grid eq recovery be seen as such an advantage (yes I know heal faster but I highly doubt it is that much faster to even be noticed)).
If the situational abilities were removed from gnome, they are left with 2/4 poison resist and 2/4 electrical resist. This is most definitely -not- worth 500 credits.
Fink:
2/4 cold resist 2/4 asphyxiation resist (I'd personally see it as more realistic for them to have the poison resistance, rather than gnomes) Increased Dramatics performance (This is actually not that bad, however are finks now to be considered the influencing race? With the stat system, we saw them as the exact opposite of that. They were apparently not charismatic beings. This feels like a conundrum of themes) Increased Turret damage, crit chance, and hit chance (Again, very good in certain circumstances, but only in those instances. As for aetherhunting, that's a rare thing to find nowadays)
I understand the admin's wishes to code in aethercraft capabilities into the races most tied to it, but it really really should -not- be a demigod power whatsoever.
If Finks and Gnomes are going to be reduced in value in such a fashion, I'd honestly want a refund back.
Er, situational stuff for demi+ is pretty much par for the course for all the races. There's hardly any demi-power that is useful in every single situation. The "strongest" ones for PK would probably be Furrikin, Orclach and... maybe Lobos because their huge chunk of regen is not tied to an environment. Even then, regen isn't exactly the be-all of combat, Furrikin writhe isn't as fast as contort anyway, and Orclach... well, they'd be tanky, for sure, I guess. Oh, I forgot merian, which will be good for bashing, I guess? 1/10 free to everyone on your squad is nice, but I doubt it'd turn fights that were not already super closely matched, especially with all the movement spam and zerg-piling anyway.
Also, HALVED mana costs for mugwump isn't good enough for a demi-power? It's a magicrown that doesn't need lessons. That's 1715 lessons there you can put on a different trade, or into other stuff if you're not interested in trades. Seriously, Mugwump have a fairly good deal.
The low int for finks is as much a crippling weakness for them as a warrior as it is for orclach. Finks don't actually make very good warriors based off their stats alone - that's putting aside the fact that aslaran-master-race rules the warrior/monk racial balance, too. High dex and decent strength is true, but they don't get orclach weapon bonus for their troubles either. At best they're marginally better than orclach, and depending on the situation, marginally better or worse than illithoid for warriors, based off stats alone. If you spent 500 credits for fink as some kind of supreme warrior... let's just say you'd get a LOT more mileage topping up 50 creds for level 2 stat runes.
I don't see anything to make much of a fuss about, really, beyond faeling divinus. Change that to magic or psychic or something, I guess.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Lol the divinus resistance was proposed by Viynain and was pulled directly from the lore. Chill with the sketchy implications.
I still think finks are...missing something cool. I may not be valuing their demi power enough, I dunno. They feel like they lost a unique thing that their 19 dex gave them, and I'm not really feeling their influence boost. Its like, where before they were an awesome monk race, now they're better bards than monks? It feels odd. I thought their craftiness should be more martial than influential, which was why I suggested a small critical hit boost.
On the other hand, I can now legitimately make Nikka clumsy, without constantly wondering how someone with 22 dex can trip over their own feet or fall backwards into a pool with all their clothes on.
That said, I 100% do not regert buying fink. It was an RP thing. It's been awesome.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
So...they weren't really an awesome monk race. Not anymore than similar races like illithoid and krokani, and certainly not as good as aslaran. That's because of two things, stat scaling and dex being the least important stat for everyone. Stats scale after 18, meaning each point after 18 has a lot less benefit than the points before 18. Dex, while more important to monks than everyone else, really don't see big difference between the 16-18 range. Fink had a bloated stat that was ultimately not that valuable.
Not coincidentally, this is also why the removal of stats doesn't really impact the min/max of the highest tiers, everyone was already sitting at 18 or higher of their relevant stat. Removing stats, for the record, does not really impact outliers because of scaling, which is a point I do disagree with the admin on. The biggest impact to the racial rebalance is the removal of speed bonuses and racial weaknesses and that casters just have to be "squishy," aka have low con. The stat normalization is a pretty big MEH to me, but I also don't really see it hurting anything so why not.
Yeah, I noticed the scaling, been enhancing str/dex instead of dex because it boosted my damage more. Hehe.
Ok, so, they were a decent monk race then. It just feels to me like now a lot of people are gonna want to play fink bard more than fink anything else. Though gnomes still outdo them in revolts.
From what I played with, against people igasho did the most damage with monk attacks. Coincidentally, highest strength. Dexterity really didn't seem to be much of a factor at all.
Of course, the balance malus and the very low mana made it nonviable outside of the arena.
Yes, the information has been out since the days of Thul's monking. Strength is the PVP stat for monks, not dexterity. Dexterity is the main PVE stat for monks.
Lol the divinus resistance was proposed by Viynain and was pulled directly from the lore. Chill with the sketchy implications.
Where is this explained exactly? The only explanation in the chart is "fae ancestry and all" which frankly is not a valid explanation. By that remark, Merians should have a divinus resist because their race has been in such long contact with angelic beings, even pre-dating celest. Additionally, for faeling having a link to fae in 'ancestry' terms, they should be gaining a small resist (maybe) to magic, not divinus...divinus and excroable are cosmic forces, not nature.
Er, situational stuff for demi+ is pretty much par for the course for all the races. There's hardly any demi-power that is useful in every single situation. The "strongest" ones for PK would probably be Furrikin, Orclach and... maybe Lobos because their huge chunk of regen is not tied to an environment. Even then, regen isn't exactly the be-all of combat, Furrikin writhe isn't as fast as contort anyway, and Orclach... well, they'd be tanky, for sure, I guess. Oh, I forgot merian, which will be good for bashing, I guess? 1/10 free to everyone on your squad is nice, but I doubt it'd turn fights that were not already super closely matched, especially with all the movement spam and zerg-piling anyway.
Having an 'end tier' ability that makes recovery from aethership chair and modules, and then having the ability to force people a room away (igasho) are no where near in the same symertry of situational capacity. One requires you to actually enter a different form of game conflict, while the other would be useable during normal pk conflict as they wish. The same can be said for the other race abilities. Finks and gnomes are being given a big loss in terms of end-tier interest, especially for the price of 500 credits.
Orclach gain passive tankiness, Viscanti/Dracnari passive random damage, Furrikin faster writhe and tumble (good luck necromancy..), Aslaran the ability to stop runners. etc.
These are far better than "chance of better turret hits in aetherships" and "faster eq recovery in aethership chairs and grids".
Also, HALVED mana costs for mugwump isn't good enough for a demi-power? It's a magicrown that doesn't need lessons. That's 1715 lessons there you can put on a different trade, or into other stuff if you're not interested in trades. Seriously, Mugwump have a fairly good deal.
While the idea of an inbuilt magicrown is appealing, the idea of mana-usage from spells has never been such a detriment. Additionally, the idea that the mugwump player could in fact simply get this same passive by adding a tradeskill, makes their 'special demi power' seem irrelevant.
I just want each of the races to receive a valuable demi-power that can make them all seem interesting, since it seems without stats that the races will be examined based on the use one can get out of it (RP aside).
I just want each of the races to receive a valuable demi-power that can make them all seem interesting, since it seems without stats that the races will be examined based on the use one can get out of it (RP aside).
A lot of this is very much a matter of opinion. To me the mugwump demipower seems pretty nice. For the record, magicrown doesn't halve mana usage. It's a 1/4 or 1/5 reduction (Don't recall which, haven't used in a while. Will probably test again soon, but it most certainly isn't 1/2) but even if it was 1/2, it would still quite likely stack with the mugwump racial. Either way, what it translates to is a mage/druid having the ability to unleash staff twice in quick succession and not worry about being absolved/toaded/etc.
EDIT: On the other hand, I find the lucidian racial demi power weak at best. But apparently, that's just me.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Nowhere that you can see. You weren't privvy to the discussion and explination because you are not an envoy. Not being present for a discussion or not knowing the motivation behind a change is not carte blanche to imply other people are gaming the system just because you disagree with the change. Fae are not merian, for a start. The fae are parts of the Maeve conciousness which was successful, to a degree, at fending the soulless which is where excoro energies are from or at least resisting it. Merian are shards. Has nothing to do with "proximity to Celest."
As to your second point, not everyone plays to PK, and their ways of playing are not less valid than yours. So your measurement of value for a race is not universal. Some people might think PK is boring and that flying aetherships is really cool and exciting. Non PKers are entitled to mechanics and races that fit their play style.
Half man cost for things like clotting and focus spirit is huge. Not universally amazing, but situationally very useful. Again, how you measure value is not how everyone else will.
Comments
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Just throwing numbers out there, obviously. Since we've no clue what they'll price at, suppose it's pointless speculation at this point.
Roar spend essense now I can hug people! Who needs synergy?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The idea for statless races in my world was for them to have unique, flavour, RP or utility skills (like dracnari pipe lighting). But now these skills are inflated to combat-useful porpotions and you have to buy them on top of it. Which is something not everyone will do due to... weight stuff?
What makes a dwarf really unique now? It certainly has nothing to do with being able to hold their liquor. Le sigh.
<insert mighty dwarfrant here>
- Lucidian/Trill perk: Lucidians with aeonics gain a 1/10 bonus to excorable and magical, while Trills with aeonics gain 1/10 bonus to divinus and magical? Im assuming this is a mistype, or was it in fact planned this way?
- Faelings: Faelings gain a 2/4 divinus resistance buff...yet I do not understand how this makes sense. Why are faelings suddenly resistant to divinus damage? They are fae, not angelic beings. In truth, this somewhat looks like a shady sneak-in (looks, not is) for a buff to a popular race pick. Additionally, with class users gaining buffs to excorable and poison damage, faelings are looking to be pretty powerful with a resistance to one of the main damage sources and a buff to the other.
- Mugwump: Alot of the abilities in races seem to just be focused on influencing, was this from a lack of time to think up new concepts or was intended this way? I found several races receiving interesting concepts and abilities, but mugwumps not as much. They are gaining a small mana regen boost, the ability to leap (or faster leap if they have leap already which, let's face it, with level 1 wonderwings everyone does), enhanced empowering and charity influence and finally the 'demi' power of reduced mana cost on spells and abilities. I'd suggest removing the influencing perk and replacing it with the 'reduced mana cost' perk, and thus introducing something more interesting as a 'demi' power.
- Gnome/Fink: This is perhaps the most troubling part I found. Gnomes and Finks are specifically a restricted race available only by purchase, and the main appeal of buying Gnome and Fink was their special engorged stat (Highest Int race on Gnome and highest Dex on Fink (which with their good con and acceptable strength made them very good warriors). With the removal of stats, I would have assumed Gnomes and Finks are gaining something else as appealing, since in the end they are a product being sold. I found the selection of abilities given to them to be subpar.
Gnome:
2/4 poison resistance (which still has yet to be explained from where this resistance came from).
2/4 electrical resistance (im assuming this is based on their habits of tinkering with gadgets)
Increased village influence attacks (Not bad but very situational..additionally I could see people in the future complaining about a "purchase to win" mechanic. Meaning this will be seen as both underbuffed and overbuffed in its own way)
Reduced EQ when using grid and chair (Again, very situational. Aetherspace is not all that used, nor will the fact of having faster chair and grid eq recovery be seen as such an advantage (yes I know heal faster but I highly doubt it is that much faster to even be noticed)).
If the situational abilities were removed from gnome, they are left with 2/4 poison resist and 2/4 electrical resist. This is most definitely -not- worth 500 credits.
Fink:
2/4 cold resist
2/4 asphyxiation resist (I'd personally see it as more realistic for them to have the poison resistance, rather than gnomes)
Increased Dramatics performance (This is actually not that bad, however are finks now to be considered the influencing race? With the stat system, we saw them as the exact opposite of that. They were apparently not charismatic beings. This feels like a conundrum of themes)
Increased Turret damage, crit chance, and hit chance (Again, very good in certain circumstances, but only in those instances. As for aetherhunting, that's a rare thing to find nowadays)
I understand the admin's wishes to code in aethercraft capabilities into the races most tied to it, but it really really should -not- be a demigod power whatsoever.
If Finks and Gnomes are going to be reduced in value in such a fashion, I'd honestly want a refund back.
You have to pay essence and tie up weight for the Gnome and Fink demi powers on top of purchasing the race, don't forget.
On the other hand, I can now legitimately make Nikka clumsy, without constantly wondering how someone with 22 dex can trip over their own feet or fall backwards into a pool with all their clothes on.
That said, I 100% do not regert buying fink. It was an RP thing. It's been awesome.
Ok, so, they were a decent monk race then. It just feels to me like now a lot of people are gonna want to play fink bard more than fink anything else.
Of course, the balance malus and the very low mana made it nonviable outside of the arena.
I do hope the arti-power of finks is a bit more military minded. But I'll be ok if it isn't.
Where is this explained exactly? The only explanation in the chart is "fae ancestry and all" which frankly is not a valid explanation. By that remark, Merians should have a divinus resist because their race has been in such long contact with angelic beings, even pre-dating celest. Additionally, for faeling having a link to fae in 'ancestry' terms, they should be gaining a small resist (maybe) to magic, not divinus...divinus and excroable are cosmic forces, not nature.
Having an 'end tier' ability that makes recovery from aethership chair and modules, and then having the ability to force people a room away (igasho) are no where near in the same symertry of situational capacity. One requires you to actually enter a different form of game conflict, while the other would be useable during normal pk conflict as they wish. The same can be said for the other race abilities. Finks and gnomes are being given a big loss in terms of end-tier interest, especially for the price of 500 credits.
Orclach gain passive tankiness, Viscanti/Dracnari passive random damage, Furrikin faster writhe and tumble (good luck necromancy..), Aslaran the ability to stop runners. etc.
These are far better than "chance of better turret hits in aetherships" and "faster eq recovery in aethership chairs and grids".
While the idea of an inbuilt magicrown is appealing, the idea of mana-usage from spells has never been such a detriment. Additionally, the idea that the mugwump player could in fact simply get this same passive by adding a tradeskill, makes their 'special demi power' seem irrelevant.
I just want each of the races to receive a valuable demi-power that can make them all seem interesting, since it seems without stats that the races will be examined based on the use one can get out of it (RP aside).
EDIT: On the other hand, I find the lucidian racial demi power weak at best. But apparently, that's just me.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Nowhere that you can see. You weren't privvy to the discussion and explination because you are not an envoy. Not being present for a discussion or not knowing the motivation behind a change is not carte blanche to imply other people are gaming the system just because you disagree with the change. Fae are not merian, for a start. The fae are parts of the Maeve conciousness which was successful, to a degree, at fending the soulless which is where excoro energies are from or at least resisting it. Merian are shards. Has nothing to do with "proximity to Celest."
As to your second point, not everyone plays to PK, and their ways of playing are not less valid than yours. So your measurement of value for a race is not universal. Some people might think PK is boring and that flying aetherships is really cool and exciting. Non PKers are entitled to mechanics and races that fit their play style.
Half man cost for things like clotting and focus spirit is huge. Not universally amazing, but situationally very useful. Again, how you measure value is not how everyone else will.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."