If it is inevitable, what is the vision of the forums without a place for rants look like? That's what confuses me: Everyone seems to agree that people will vent no matter what, and that no matter what those vents will sometimes go too far. This will happen without a specified place for it, it will happen in whatever specified venting grounds are provided.
Having a place provided for venting means that the majority of cases of it happening will hopefully occur there where it can be safely ignored, instead of all over everyone else's stuff. Granted, there will be stray cases, just as there are now, but I seriously see zero potential harm or risk to having people post their dissatisfaction in a quarantine-able location.
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Serious question: Isn't it possible this place could exist off the official Lusternia forums?
Technically, IRE pays for these forums. They can do what they like with them. If it's so important that we have a rants group, is it not feasible to hold it somewhere else, where the admin aren't obligated to oversee it? That's essentially how the Facebook group operates, if I'm not misunderstanding. Seems like a way people can vent and the admin don't have to be overworked, and the people who don't want to be involved don't have to be. Win/win.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
The community has proved time and time again that if you have a general rants thread, it will devolve into petty sniping. So no, I don't think we should have one.
Hell, I'll moderate it just to have everyone shaddup already. I'm generally entertained by those derailments. Heck, find two more folks, and we can have a triumvirate that answers to no one. Bwahahaha.
Yes, there is a Facebook group for rants. It's moderated by myself, and only loosely.
I'd expect most posts on a rant page here to conform to my own rants group's basic rules. No homophobic/racial slurs, and so on. To this date, only three people have been thrown out: Tetra, Daebach, and...uh...that one Cantor guy who could beat everyone at any time, and if he lost, it was a bug. Aaaaanyway.
Maybe you should let me moderate the rants section here. I can tell the difference between an argument and trolling, I don't play favorites, and I'm generally an easy-going person until someone gets stupid.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Yes, there is a Facebook group for rants. It's moderated by myself, and only loosely.
I'd expect most posts on a rant page here to conform to my own rants group's basic rules. No homophobic/racial slurs, and so on. To this date, only three people have been thrown out: Tetra, Daebach, and...uh...that one Cantor guy who could beat everyone at any time, and if he lost, it was a bug. Aaaaanyway.
Maybe you should let me moderate the rants section here. I can tell the difference between an argument and trolling, I don't play favorites, and I'm generally an easy-going person until someone gets stupid.
His mentor, whose name escapes me. Starts with a D.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Isn't the reason we have flags for posts supposed to
help admin with moderating? Yes you see some people flag pettily but
usually when something is really out of line the community as a whole
leaps onto it. I much prefer that than appointed mortal moderators.
There's no justice like mob justice, right?
Also I can't help myself but I have to comment on this: "People with diagnosed depression are not psychological snowflakes- if
they were, we would need a different medication for every single person
with depression, because brain chemistry would be completely
unpredictable." There is no one cure all medication for depression. There are many, many different types, strengths and other variables used to treat it, because not everyone reacts the same way to the same medication. Two people with depression taking the same medication may result in one seeing great improvements, and the other take a severe turn for the worse. It's often a bit of trial and error to find just the right medication for each individual. Like many other medications, foods and allergens are fine for some but others react to them, with different levels of severity and in different ways.
Venting is the same. There is no one perfect cure-all that works for everyone, all the time. People deal with their frustrations differently.
Also I can't help myself but I have to comment on this: "People with diagnosed depression are not psychological snowflakes- if
they were, we would need a different medication for every single person
with depression, because brain chemistry would be completely
unpredictable." There is no one cure all medication for depression. There are many, many different types, strengths and other variables used to treat it, because not everyone reacts the same way to the same medication. Two people with depression taking the same medication may result in one seeing great improvements, and the other take a severe turn for the worse. It's often a bit of trial and error to find just the right medication for each individual. Like many other medications, foods and allergens are fine for some but others react to them, with different levels of severity and in different ways.
Venting is the same. There is no one perfect cure-all that works for everyone, all the time. People deal with their frustrations differently.
As someone with diagnosed depression who has been prescribed medication for it(and no longer requires it), I tend to agree in part- but that doesn't prove the point that you and Celina seem to believe it does. We don't, for example, tell depressed people to just take some Tylenol because really, who knows if that'll be more effective than Zoloft? Or hitting yourself with a hammer until you feel less depressed. Everyone's different, so try anything until something works!
...No. There are patterns of brain chemistry that have led to certain medications being prescribed over others, and certain types of therapies known to be more effective for X conditions. Now, human beings are complicated, and I have never suggested they weren't, and psychology is an extremely subjective science, so not all medications/therapies/ways of resolving conflict are necessarily going to lead to the same results every time. We can still make generalities about most people, because all people have human brains that can be studied and patterns that can be observed. That's... science. Or as much of science as psychology and sociology allows.
I don't agree that venting is an effective way of dealing with frustrations. If you do, I've already stated that I have no intention of STOPPING a rants thread from being created, let alone telling you you can't rant generally elsewhere. You find it helpful? That's awesome, really. Get a grant to do a study on it and write a psychology paper. I read a lot of those, maybe I'll read yours and change my mind.
We done now?
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
I really don't understand the controversy here. No one has to change anyone's minds about anything, and no one else's opinion stops you from having yours or doing what you want. ...Right?
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
@Alic has the right idea, starting a board. Maybe the solution here so "everybody wins" is that we as a group use that board. The Admin could create an announcement thread, a CLOSED announcement thread so no one can post to it by mistake - with the link to the rants group. Title it something like, "Feel the need to blow off steam? Look no further! Rants allowed on this site, which is not directly affiliated with Lusternia. Player-run, subject to the rules of its own moderators. Feel free to use it there!" - or something similar. But if the link leads to it, that way we know exactly where it is, new people poking around can find it easily, etc. etc. and it's not actually on the forums that way. Just a thought.
EDIT: Oh, and a small suggestion to Alic with his board he's attempting - I would put in a *few* guiding rules, maybe something like, no homophobia, racial slurs, etc to keep it from devolving TOO much, but that is again, completely up to him.
"You are so much bigger than you think you are," She says, fervently. "You are a beacon of hope that shines through the world with every step you take. You are My beacon, Gabriella, and you shine even into the darkest of nightmares."
--------
The air sparkles with silver motes of light as a silken voice says, "You will see growth and strength where others will see weakness. You will walk with Us as a paragon of Serenwilde's power, for you have already walked this path before."
If I want to share my opinion, I don't want to be outsourced to a third party board when there's a reasonable one here outside of the occasional flare up.
Make the Rants board a subcategory of "the Funnies," and if this is possible, make posts that are marked as 3 abuse or above become hidden, instead of the 6-9 it is now.
All I'm asking for is to be given some faith to the community to control ourselves before taking away all privileges again and forcing me to actually sign up for Facebook just so I can rant about how annoyed I am that I can't stop warriors at the moment.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Separate board is just the RPWHO version of venting.
Regardless, it is there for anyone to use if they want it. Just one other option if you can't get what you want in the forums here - you wanted a place to blow off steam (and I'm saying you in general, not necessarily YOU, Shuyin), so there you go!
"You are so much bigger than you think you are," She says, fervently. "You are a beacon of hope that shines through the world with every step you take. You are My beacon, Gabriella, and you shine even into the darkest of nightmares."
--------
The air sparkles with silver motes of light as a silken voice says, "You will see growth and strength where others will see weakness. You will walk with Us as a paragon of Serenwilde's power, for you have already walked this path before."
There's plenty of places to rant. Facebook groups about Lusternia, OOC clans, etc, etc. I personally don't see a reason to have a section made of it on the forums. It will simply devolve into an all-out insult fest sooner or later.
EDIT: With the added ability to tag people in your insult/rant so that you can make personal attacks against them? Just no.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Now that I got that off my chest, let me explain the obvious of why: People have opinions, those opinions will always leak in, for those that think even lerad would be the epitome of levelheadedness, see his explosions to my posts in replies. No, everyone breaks, no one is special. As much as you want to dream of it, players will from time to time make a decision that is 'opinionated' even without them realizing it. Heck, even some gods arent that innocent, not naming names.
I think Aetolia tried the player mod thing and it was so laughable with so many opinionated 'modding' that it was just another example of aetolian failure.
Player mods had a grievance process, and had to answer to admin. If you had a problem with something they did in their capacity as a moderator you could appeal it to a higher authority, albeit via emailing the administrators.
Seemed to me that the mods were generally lax, and when they were overzealous it was generally understood by the player base at large, and a moderator who does not have the trust of the player base generally doesn't last terribly long. But what do I know?
Now that I got
that off my chest, let me explain the obvious of why: People have
opinions, those opinions will always leak in, for those that think even
lerad would be the epitome of levelheadedness, see his explosions to my
posts in replies. No, everyone breaks, no one is special. As much as you
want to dream of it, players will from time to time make a decision
that is 'opinionated' even without them realizing it. Heck, even some
gods arent that innocent, not naming names.
I think Aetolia
tried the player mod thing and it was so laughable with so many
opinionated 'modding' that it was just another example of aetolian
failure.
Don't worry, if we're judging the capability of people realizing their own biases, almost
everyone in this forums is perfectly capable of seeing their own
shortcomings and compensating their moderating with other mods' opinions
and recommendations.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I really don't understand the controversy here. No one has to change anyone's minds about anything, and no one else's opinion stops you from having yours or doing what you want. ...Right?
Probably the part where when you disagree with someone (even to the point of disagreeing with them on their own personalities), you're just expressing an opinion, but when we disagree with you (especially on subject matter you can't actually speak on with any degree of authority) we are "disallowing" your opinion. I guess double standards are okay because you read a paper about it.
I think it's an interesting topic, and while I don't mind a discussion on it, immediately playing the oppressed opinion card because people aren't agreeing with your interpretation of a generalizition of a truly impressive scope makes it tedious beyond bothering. The whole "stop disagreeing with me, I'm just stating an opinion and I'm allowed, but here's why I disagree with you. Sassy comment sassy comment," routine is not cute.
I really don't understand the controversy here. No one has to change anyone's minds about anything, and no one else's opinion stops you from having yours or doing what you want. ...Right?
Probably the part where when you disagree with someone (even to the point of disagreeing with them on their own personalities), you're just expressing an opinion, but when we disagree with you (especially on subject matter you can't actually speak on with any degree of authority) we are "disallowing" your opinion. I guess double standards are okay because you read a paper about it.
I think it's an interesting topic, and while I don't mind a discussion on it, immediately playing the oppressed opinion card because people aren't agreeing with your interpretation of a generalizition of a truly impressive scope makes it tedious beyond bothering. The whole "stop disagreeing with me, I'm just stating an opinion and I'm allowed, but here's why I disagree with you. Sassy comment sassy comment," routine is not cute.
IJS.
Doesn't that kind of have to go both ways? It's fine for Person A to say "this is my opinion" Person B to say "I disagree and this is -my- opinion" that should be able to be the end of it, but as often happens in conversations there is a back and forth, at some point someone HAS to stop arguing with the other, either Person A or Person B and agree to disagree and leave it at that. That responsibility to step back from the argument belongs to -both- parties, its not just the job of one person to step away. Sadly BOTH parties usually want that "last word" in and think its the other person who needs to stop arguing when they BOTH need to stop arguing...
If that makes sense... it made sense in my head... hrm...
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited August 2015
You're not wrong! My remark was just geared towards her quip that I am "loathe to allow opinions that aren't my own," or some such simply because I expressed that I don't agree with her, but she was allowed to disagree with me and Lavinya...and somehow it was different. It's was a deliberate misrepresentation of the conversation, which is why I posted that response.
But anyways, we're so off the rails here. More drag queens?
I really don't understand the controversy here. No one has to change anyone's minds about anything, and no one else's opinion stops you from having yours or doing what you want. ...Right?
Probably the part where when you disagree with someone (even to the point of disagreeing with them on their own personalities), you're just expressing an opinion, but when we disagree with you (especially on subject matter you can't actually speak on with any degree of authority) we are "disallowing" your opinion. I guess double standards are okay because you read a paper about it.
I think it's an interesting topic, and while I don't mind a discussion on it, immediately playing the oppressed opinion card because people aren't agreeing with your interpretation of a generalizition of a truly impressive scope makes it tedious beyond bothering. The whole "stop disagreeing with me, I'm just stating an opinion and I'm allowed, but here's why I disagree with you. Sassy comment sassy comment," routine is not cute.
IJS.
I will not agree that you're right when you make the claim that every person is an expert on their own personality and has perfect knowledge of self-awareness or self-regulation, as I very much do not agree with that claim. And if it's annoying to you when I explain why, well, tough. As far as the sassy comment- I responded to you using the exact same words you did, only changing it to state my opinion in as direct a way as I could think of, without sarcasm. And I did so without attempting to continue the argument, but by stating my disagreement. If that comes across as 'sassy' then I suspect we're going to have many communication problems and arguments... which I guess I'd also know from experience with you. (And that is not saying I dislike you on a personal level, just that we are both stubborn individuals who argue a lot)
I get it. It is a popular line of thinking in Western cultures that everyone is a unique individual and that they and only they know their innermost self- and I used to believe that. But that is a CULTURAL belief, which I know now because of my "reading papers" and from living in Western Africa for several months. I am not disagreeing with you simply to be difficult... there are reasons and experiences and reflections I've had over the past five years that lead me to reject that claim. I believe in the universality of experiences, and in objective truths over subjective claims from individuals. It's actually kind of a fundamental belief of mine at the moment, at least as much so as I suspect yours is to you. So I'm not going to apologize for it, nor change my position in order to be cuter. I don't remember saying I thought my opinion was being oppressed, I just didn't particularly think this was the best place to have this debate, and didn't understand why others seemed to be insisting on having it here and now. Still my position.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Comments
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Isn't the reason we have flags for posts supposed to help admin with moderating? Yes you see some people flag pettily but usually when something is really out of line the community as a whole leaps onto it. I much prefer that than appointed mortal moderators. There's no justice like mob justice, right?
Also I can't help myself but I have to comment on this: "People with diagnosed depression are not psychological snowflakes- if they were, we would need a different medication for every single person with depression, because brain chemistry would be completely unpredictable." There is no one cure all medication for depression. There are many, many different types, strengths and other variables used to treat it, because not everyone reacts the same way to the same medication. Two people with depression taking the same medication may result in one seeing great improvements, and the other take a severe turn for the worse. It's often a bit of trial and error to find just the right medication for each individual. Like many other medications, foods and allergens are fine for some but others react to them, with different levels of severity and in different ways.
Venting is the same. There is no one perfect cure-all that works for everyone, all the time. People deal with their frustrations differently.
EDIT: With the added ability to tag people in your insult/rant so that you can make personal attacks against them? Just no.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Now that I got that off my chest, let me explain the obvious of why: People have opinions, those opinions will always leak in, for those that think even lerad would be the epitome of levelheadedness, see his explosions to my posts in replies. No, everyone breaks, no one is special. As much as you want to dream of it, players will from time to time make a decision that is 'opinionated' even without them realizing it. Heck, even some gods arent that innocent, not naming names.
I think Aetolia tried the player mod thing and it was so laughable with so many opinionated 'modding' that it was just another example of aetolian failure.
Don't worry, if we're judging the capability of people realizing their own biases, almost everyone in this forums is perfectly capable of seeing their own shortcomings and compensating their moderating with other mods' opinions and recommendations.