I'd like to thank Hallifax for all of the friendly people that have invited even city enemies to get cured, and at no cost or even rp of a debt being owed. Regardless of my IC or OOC dislike of certain characters, you've really impressed me in this event.
No one shit on Hallifax. In fact, repeated nice things were said about Hallifax. I openly praised Halifax repeatedly. They were way nicer than they had to be. General advice was offered for future events. No malice, no argument, no insults. Completely good natured. There was no criticism offered, this crying that Maligorn and Twytch are doing is non sensical. There was literally no attack on anyone until Maligorn got involved. IT WASN'T A BIG DEAL, it was a minor thing for the admin to consider in the future just to avoid possible conflicts that don't exist this time around. Cue grudges against Glom by the usual suspects.
Instead of addressing that, apparently some admin (Hey @Weiwae) saw fit to ignore players intentionally starting partisan attacks and only addressing/flagging players that apparently are on the other side of in game alliances or administrative criticism. I don't know which it is, but in all these years I've never seen an admin deliberately side with players like that except for Eventru. I'm completely uninterested in this, I will be taking by business elsewhere.
I was tagged in some comment. When I came to respond I saw you writing posts to tell people to leave the game, so I flagged them. If others wrote similar messages please flag it so we can look at it. Making people feel bad to the point of telling them to go elsewhere is not acceptable in my book.
While I am here and curious, and since I missed the creation of the raining cure machine.
What other neutral items would you have liked to see to be used to distribute the cure over the entire area via rain clouds?
One thought just off-hand would be to not have made it air-based, but rather crystal-based. Hallifax is associated with both, after all. At that point, you could've gone with having to supply the machine with ten/twenty/whatever gems, and those would create some resonance or something that would kill the skinrot. Presto, it would be Hallifax-themed, but everyone could use it without involving Hallifax.
Obviously the system used by the Old Celest Empire to try and subdue Gaudiguch's military. Operation Cloud Spout or something, wasn't it?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Wisps of cloud from cloud mantas would probably have worked well. (61/hour spawn) Obviously it didn't have to be rain clouds, though. The last machines simply had to be entered, and were in neutral areas - that's what we're comparing to.
While I am here and curious, and since I missed the creation of the raining cure machine.
What other neutral items would you have liked to see to be used to distribute the cure over the entire area via rain clouds?
Here were the things suggested to the admin playing Creshok at that time: 1) Make it so healer's can do it with the aura, add affliction to Skin cures 2) Make the weather machine a) Revamp cloudspouts in Shallach b) Tainted Broadcast Centre's weather machine 3) Revamp the gnome machine in the Starhopper with this strain's information
These were all suggested by Falmiis, Ileein, Aeral, and myself while speaking to Creshok, suggestion two was taken and made with a twist. We did offer the idea for a neutral setup.
As a casual observer and former frequent event participant, even if you could put any kind of essence into this machine, it gets tiresome having essence be the go-to turn in for everything ever.
As for alternatives, I dunno, pick something random and make up a reason why it works. Input cow for healing milk rain. Insert an amount of rockeaters, process them into healing gem dust that gets dumped on the area like fire retardant from a plane (helpful Hallifaxian crystal drones floating around the area, sprinkling everyone with curedust. Cute!) Etc. etc.
While I am here and curious, and since I missed the creation of the raining cure machine.
What other neutral items would you have liked to see to be used to distribute the cure over the entire area via rain clouds?
I didn't catch what your question was. I read it as "What neutral item would be used to distribute the cure [instead of a healing device created by Hallifaxians using Hallifax science]., not "What instead of essence for a turn-in."
My point was that the cure is Hallifaxian in origin and theme, and that it's only not a mechanical or RP problem because no one has decided to push the issue. The mechanical problem comes from Hallifax controlling the mechanical turn in. The rp problems come from it being a machine, which right off the bat that tells you it's not going to be a commune engaged idea.
Like, if it weren't for the awful debilitating plague and player-oriented necessity of getting a cure, I can 100% see submitting to experimental Hallifaxian cures would be an issue for many characters. Remember the last time we tried an experimental cure and ended up with dream crystals everywhere? Yeesh.
@Tamashi from what I heard changing the gnomes machine was raised but the NPCs said it would mean it no longer works with the one it currently cures.
@Weiwae, maybe rather than something to create the clouds (which a shaman wouldn't need) they might have used some ingredients for the cure.
I'm not too sure cause I wasn't around for it, but if the machine itself creates the cure and just uses the essence for dispersal then a shaman could just take the cure and do the rest themselves.
Awww come on! It was only experimental on Synkarin, it was proven a success! Therefore we cured you not with Hallifaxian science, but with healing and medicine. The only 'science' involved in the way we made the cure is how to rig up the machine, and even then that's engineering. I did suggest something that wasn't a machine but you can tell me which you prefer .
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall anyone complaining about machines when it was a gnomish machine that cured skinrot, and gnomes are the epitome of potentially dangerous experimental technology.
Personally, I like the cure being connected to an org. It makes the origin of the machine more memorable than a generic gnomish cure station that appeared nearby because it was convenient, and is a nice touch that I'm sure makes the players involved feel like they had a direct influence on the world. Isn't that the kind of thing that people like and want more of? Doesn't it make sense that events shaped by players would have ties to the organizations those players are from? I hope we see more of this kind of thing, from every organization, in the future (though please avoid essence turn-ins, they got old ages ago.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall anyone complaining about machines when it was a gnomish machine that cured skinrot, and gnomes are the epitome of potentially dangerous experimental technology.
Personally, I like the cure being connected to an org. It makes the origin of the machine more memorable than a generic gnomish cure station that appeared nearby because it was convenient, and is a nice touch that I'm sure makes the players involved feel like they had a direct influence on the world. Isn't that the kind of thing that people like and want more of? Doesn't it make sense that events shaped by players would have ties to the organizations those players are from? I hope we see more of this kind of thing, from every organization, in the future (though please avoid essence turn-ins, they got old ages ago.)
Personally, I completely agree; I'd love to see more org-based touches in events. However, the thing to avoid is using resources that are only available in one org's territory; air essence, in this case. The same argument would probably be raised if the turnin was pigeons though.
The perfect solution is something that, lore-wise, is tied to an org, but mechanics-wise is able to be used by anyone, regardless of org (at least if there is a general need to use it, such as in this case). For instance, if Celest created something it could be water-based, and we'd need to supply it with buckets of water. If Magnagora or Glomdoring created something, we'd power it with corpses. Etc etc etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall anyone complaining about machines when it was a gnomish machine that cured skinrot, and gnomes are the epitome of potentially dangerous experimental technology.
Personally, I like the cure being connected to an org. It makes the origin of the machine more memorable than a generic gnomish cure station that appeared nearby because it was convenient, and is a nice touch that I'm sure makes the players involved feel like they had a direct influence on the world. Isn't that the kind of thing that people like and want more of? Doesn't it make sense that events shaped by players would have ties to the organizations those players are from? I hope we see more of this kind of thing, from every organization, in the future (though please avoid essence turn-ins, they got old ages ago.)
Personally, I completely agree; I'd love to see more org-based touches in events. However, the thing to avoid is using resources that are only available in one org's territory; air essence, in this case. The same argument would probably be raised if the turnin was pigeons though.
The perfect solution is something that, lore-wise, is tied to an org, but mechanics-wise is able to be used by anyone, regardless of org (at least if there is a general need to use it, such as in this case). For instance, if Celest created something it could be water-based, and we'd need to supply it with buckets of water. If Magnagora or Glomdoring created something, we'd power it with corpses. Etc etc etc.
Yep, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm on board with. Org flavor, neutral turn-ins.
The personal attacks on this thread are beginning to get silly again. Please use tweets in the spirit for which it is intended, and refresh your memory regarding the forum rules. I appreciate that people are very passionate about things but, if it looks like you are going to be in breach of the rules, please just stop engaging with whoever is antagonising you - this goes for all 'sides'.
While I am here and curious, and since I missed the creation of the raining cure machine.
What other neutral items would you have liked to see to be used to distribute the cure over the entire area via rain clouds?
Im a little confused @Weiwae I thought the major grips about the event was that player roleplay and attempts were largely ignored when searching for cure attempts that didn't fit with the weather thing. There were a few seren rituals and a few natural attempts that were as stated previously by a different admin ignored due to him being busy with the Halifax approach. I don't think changing the items would fix much as it is simply the frustration of players who tried very hard to be part of an event but couldn't do to lack of admin attention, because well that is a finite resource. It frustrates people and makes them feel left out. Even if it's not done intentionally. There's no real solution other than having more active admin around during these events.
I thought the major grips about the event was that player roleplay and attempts were largely ignored when searching for cure attempts that didn't fit with the weather thing.
That is not what this discussion has been about at all.
Awww come on! It was only experimental on Synkarin, it was proven a success! Therefore we cured you not with Hallifaxian science, but with healing and medicine. The only 'science' involved in the way we made the cure is how to rig up the machine, and even then that's engineering. I did suggest something that wasn't a machine but you can tell me which you prefer .
Er, no. It's Hallifaxian Healing, Hallifaxian Medicine, and Hallifaxian Engineering.
Which, for some characters is really a deal breaker. i.e For Saran... Nature is superior to anything the cities will ever produce and a lot of the comforts/advancements that cities offer are ultimately a weakness. Having to rely on Hallifaxian whatever you want to term it goes against that belief, he's not going to remain infected and endanger the forest because of it, but he's also not going to be entirely happy it either.
-----
@Phoebus, for me I don't like the gnomish answer either. I think in this case it's frustrating because the possibility of a fitting cure for my character could have been a possibility but for whatever reason it wasn't.
If something like this happens again, which I really hope that it does because it's great, maybe there could be some way to ensure people trying to find something org appropriate can get more equal time. But of course, that is asking for the admin to do more work in running multiple story lines at the same time.
Maybe once Halli was into a fetch quest section, Serenwilde could have been contacted by the mobs people were trying to talk to and then sent on their own fetch quest for example.
While I am here and curious, and since I missed the creation of the raining cure machine.
What other neutral items would you have liked to see to be used to distribute the cure over the entire area via rain clouds?
Im a little confused @Weiwae I thought the major grips about the event was that player roleplay and attempts were largely ignored when searching for cure attempts that didn't fit with the weather thing. There were a few seren rituals and a few natural attempts that were as stated previously by a different admin ignored due to him being busy with the Halifax approach. I don't think changing the items would fix much as it is simply the frustration of players who tried very hard to be part of an event but couldn't do to lack of admin attention, because well that is a finite resource. It frustrates people and makes them feel left out. Even if it's not done intentionally. There's no real solution other than having more active admin around during these events.
Because essence is power, and the basin revolves around power, I personally tend to default to the question of "Which essence type will make the most sense for this thing?"
Since I noticed here that players were concerned about cross-org requirements of essence, I thought I would expand my horizons and see what other ideas players would like to see, where power/essence would otherwise be used.
I can't do much about the things you brought up, but I can do something about essence being my personal "go to thing" in the future.
I thought the major grips about the event was that player roleplay and attempts were largely ignored when searching for cure attempts that didn't fit with the weather thing.
That is not what this discussion has been about at all.
Er, yes, there are complaints that others weren't able to progress their cures as far. Hoaracle even addressed them in one of his posts.
@Crek and I attempted to make a cure using Wyrden Mud - We tried RPing it with amhika and the Swampghast. But it seemed set in stone that Hallifax was going to make a vaccine/cure. Oh well! Still kind of fun I guess! And a young/new player gets to be the center of it all (@Tamashi) pretty cool! Props to @Tamashi and co.
The admin would have been totally cool with potential, alternative cures. In our notes for this event, we hoped for everything to be pretty sandbox; we created a scenario and just let you guys do your thing. It is pretty difficult to snap between different groups of people during the throes of the event though, especially when we are aiming to have less structured/linear stories. I think I remember you and Crek talking to the Swampghast, but I think it was also right in the middle of Tamashi's auric dissections. Sorry for not trying to grab you all when you were trying to do something. One of the things that made us focus largely on Tamashi and Hallifax was the fact that there was a near-constant demand of an update on their end. In the future, I do want to try my best to interact (or at least entertain) other org possibilities.
If it's any consolation, I was logged in for a lot of the event and I didn't (and still don't) even know what was going on with a large part of it.
Really, if you go into events with an expectation that things will resolve in a way that's going to make you/your character happy then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Comments
What other neutral items would you have liked to see to be used to distribute the cure over the entire area via rain clouds?
Vive l'apostrophe!
1) Make it so healer's can do it with the aura, add affliction to Skin cures
2) Make the weather machine
a) Revamp cloudspouts in Shallach
b) Tainted Broadcast Centre's weather machine
3) Revamp the gnome machine in the Starhopper with this strain's information
These were all suggested by Falmiis, Ileein, Aeral, and myself while speaking to Creshok, suggestion two was taken and made with a twist. We did offer the idea for a neutral setup.
As for alternatives, I dunno, pick something random and make up a reason why it works. Input cow for healing milk rain. Insert an amount of rockeaters, process them into healing gem dust that gets dumped on the area like fire retardant from a plane (helpful Hallifaxian crystal drones floating around the area, sprinkling everyone with curedust. Cute!) Etc. etc.
My point was that the cure is Hallifaxian in origin and theme, and that it's only not a mechanical or RP problem because no one has decided to push the issue. The mechanical problem comes from Hallifax controlling the mechanical turn in. The rp problems come from it being a machine, which right off the bat that tells you it's not going to be a commune engaged idea.
Like, if it weren't for the awful debilitating plague and player-oriented necessity of getting a cure, I can 100% see submitting to experimental Hallifaxian cures would be an issue for many characters. Remember the last time we tried an experimental cure and ended up with dream crystals everywhere? Yeesh.
@Weiwae, maybe rather than something to create the clouds (which a shaman wouldn't need) they might have used some ingredients for the cure.
I'm not too sure cause I wasn't around for it, but if the machine itself creates the cure and just uses the essence for dispersal then a shaman could just take the cure and do the rest themselves.
Personally, I like the cure being connected to an org. It makes the origin of the machine more memorable than a generic gnomish cure station that appeared nearby because it was convenient, and is a nice touch that I'm sure makes the players involved feel like they had a direct influence on the world. Isn't that the kind of thing that people like and want more of? Doesn't it make sense that events shaped by players would have ties to the organizations those players are from? I hope we see more of this kind of thing, from every organization, in the future (though please avoid essence turn-ins, they got old ages ago.)
The perfect solution is something that, lore-wise, is tied to an org, but mechanics-wise is able to be used by anyone, regardless of org (at least if there is a general need to use it, such as in this case). For instance, if Celest created something it could be water-based, and we'd need to supply it with buckets of water. If Magnagora or Glomdoring created something, we'd power it with corpses. Etc etc etc.
Er, no. It's Hallifaxian Healing, Hallifaxian Medicine, and Hallifaxian Engineering.
Which, for some characters is really a deal breaker. i.e For Saran... Nature is superior to anything the cities will ever produce and a lot of the comforts/advancements that cities offer are ultimately a weakness. Having to rely on Hallifaxian whatever you want to term it goes against that belief, he's not going to remain infected and endanger the forest because of it, but he's also not going to be entirely happy it either.
-----
@Phoebus, for me I don't like the gnomish answer either. I think in this case it's frustrating because the possibility of a fitting cure for my character could have been a possibility but for whatever reason it wasn't.
If something like this happens again, which I really hope that it does because it's great, maybe there could be some way to ensure people trying to find something org appropriate can get more equal time. But of course, that is asking for the admin to do more work in running multiple story lines at the same time.
Maybe once Halli was into a fetch quest section, Serenwilde could have been contacted by the mobs people were trying to talk to and then sent on their own fetch quest for example.
Since I noticed here that players were concerned about cross-org requirements of essence, I thought I would expand my horizons and see what other ideas players would like to see, where power/essence would otherwise be used.
I can't do much about the things you brought up, but I can do something about essence being my personal "go to thing" in the future.
Really, if you go into events with an expectation that things will resolve in a way that's going to make you/your character happy then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.