Luce - what exactly does your power do? The wording just makes it seem like you are only protecting them from being lynched
Lynch protection, pretty much. It pays to be the facility's lawyer.
Thing is, if Celina was the spy, she could have just pushed earlier to have Riluna lynched instead of trying to find another target. Doctor is one of the bigger roles for blocking mafia activity even if it's limited, and until Riluna claimed it (and no one called foul), I was assuming Riluna was an Executioner whose target was Celina. If Celina was mafia, why'd she state, early and often, that Riluna was town? Why not just keep that quiet about it, or outright point the finger? It took the thread literally devolving into namecalling for me to get so tired of it that I voted the way I did.
As to the (repeated) assertion that having power roles and using them or relying on them is going to doom the town, mafia can and does have power roles as well, and we need to counter those. And since the game has power roles at all, we have to weigh those powers into our decisions.
The idea that a lynch is required for discussion to have meaning is odd, and the fact is the vast majority of the 'discussion' from today was empty at best, and distracting at worst is a testament to that.
Other notes that came to mind. Because of the idea being pushed so hard that we can't have information without either a lynch or a near-lynch, mafia knows for sure that we have a doctor, a lookout, what looks like a stalker, and my role, and they know we have a roleblocker. Riluna is right in that we can still win, but the Mafia now knows at least 3 of our roles and can use that to make decisions about who to lynch. Dangerously, aside from the roleblocker (don't announce who you are, please) those roles belong to people who were, by and large, the talkative ones.
@Synkarin you're right, people aren't following her lead, you have a group following yours.
Also I do note that when people found out I had a night power that doesn't give me much information they jumped off the bandwagon on me, this happened again once Celina revealed our doctor. But now suddenly a group are pushing to lynch the one roll out of those three that could actually help and interfere with the mafia?
Most interesting, frustrating someone to the point they don't want to play is a new low for the mafia if that's your tactic.
The thing is, all discussion about "if they were scum they would do this" are wine in front of me arguments. What if they do those very things because they can say "if I was scum, I wouldn't do this"? You can't prove or disprove that.
Today's discussion, until recently, has been extremely empty, yes. Because we have no evidence to discuss. As you've noted, the only information people seem to believe we do have, and are more willing to discuss, is power roles, and that is, as demonstrated by several, fatal for the power roles themselves.
The longer you sit around and wait, the worse off we're going to be. And even when you do lynch, the power roles still get to achieve their magical information! And now on Day 2 (as on any no-lynch), we've gained nothing we could have through non-power role means. And there are still just as many scum in the game.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
@Luce yeah, the mafia defending a town member (because they know who they are) is a super common tactic to deflect attention.
Also as you've taken the chance to remind us, yes powers can exist on both sides. An example being that you could be a mob lawyer who just protected one of the mafia from a lynch and are continuing to defend them.
@Synkarin ah but that's the beauty of being in the mafia, you don need to lead the charge. You just need to indicate a direction and the rest of the mafia can do the work for you.
If the mafia is four that's three people that can agree with you or come up with their own arguments against a target. Thereby making it appear as if many people are concerned about that person when it can just be the mafia working together.
I said in the post that I used the power that if we need to lynch her tomorrow to validate her claims, then I'm okay with that.
Right now I'm honestly more interested in removing Riluna due to the tone and agression of her posts than for any gameplay concern. We're losing a powerful role in the offing, but the last few pages of bickering were seriously not cool. Talk about frustrating one player to the point of wanting to quit all you want, but the idea of having to deal with that for how many ever game cycles happened before I ended up mafia'd or lynched had me reconsidering my decision to join as well, and I sincerely doubt I was the only one.
I said in the post that I used the power that if we need to lynch her tomorrow to validate her claims, then I'm okay with that.
Right now I'm honestly more interested in removing Riluna due to the tone and agression of her posts than for any gameplay concern. We're losing a powerful role in the offing, but the last few pages of bickering were seriously not cool. Talk about frustrating one player to the point of wanting to quit all you want, but the idea of having to deal with that for how many ever game cycles happened before I ended up mafia'd or lynched had me reconsidering my decision to join as well, and I sincerely doubt I was the only one.
This issue with this argument is that if Celina is scum then she has the capacity to identify town night roles, she also has a decent chance of identifying the valuable roles in the town and by allowing her another night she has the chance to identify a role such as the blocker.
At that point she doesn't need to survive tomorrow, she can start the day literally with a "mafia bros, kill x they're the blocker". She can even just attempt to get the town to lynch this person by following her claims again, even if it falls apart it wouldn't matter to her.
Killing her would have confirmed her improbable role claim and made Riluna look rather scummy for in-game reasons, ensuring a quick lynching on day 3.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
No one is deliberately trying to frustrate Riluna. She just stated her position, some people disagreed with it, and then she called us "retarded." People were even willing to make concessions to her position, and she still went off the deep end. I also don't think it's fair to criticize people for giving Riluna the thing she asked for. Though I don't think she actually wants to quit otherwise she wouldn't still be posting, it appears as though she was doing it for dramatic effect (a concept I am familiar with).
I also didn't reveal the doctor, Saran, Riluna revealed herself. I think it odd that you would claim I did when it's exceedingly clear in the posts that that was all her.
This did make me extremely toxic, and for that I really am sorry, but I also really don't know how else to respond to any of this positively anymore.
Just wanna say thank you for letting me out. I really did want out, and it would have been even less cool to try to have somebody fill in my shoes after what I've done.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
I'll just say that while I certainly don't agree with Rilunas language, I also definitely don't agree with killing her. Sure, her power was more or less useless at this point, since she'd only be able to protect herself, but at the same time... she's more or less confirmed as a town. If the lynch hadn't happened, I would've gone for Synkarin, to be honest.
Also, this lynch won't actually confirm anything at all, other than that Riluna was the doctor (which is at least partially confirmed already); we still won't know that Celina speaks the truth, since she easily could've said "Yeah, I know who the doctor is", and when the doctor appears, pointing and saying "See, there's the doctor".
No @Celina, she implied she knew what the doctor did last night. You fairly quickly revealed that she was the doctor. Technically your "vision" could simply be you extrapolating her implication and trying to build up your roleclaim. If you have a power that functions like that, I would expect you could be open to the possibility that she might have had a similar ability that shows her who was protected.
Really though, if you're telling the truth we should have assumed so was she because you yourself were confirming her role. You power could work by revealing people based on criteria other than targeting you, which means two people targeted you aside from myself, you targeted Synkarin, the blocker blocked Riluna, Riluna didn't act as the doctor, and the mafia didn't kill for some reason.
Of course, the other thought that has occurred to me is that with my power I might see scum talk as people visiting the target (it just being assumed they use that privilege every night), if we expect that the scum each have a power then it would make sense for their numbers to be lower than normal and three scum would then not be unexpected in such a game, which in turn could mean that you are scum and no one else used a night power on you last night. In that context Luce's power would be intended as a last ditch effort for the scum, a way to protect their more valuable roles near the end of the game, which makes sense if he'd use it to save a mafia investigator, giving another night for the mafia to investigate and find a powerful role. As, we probably have to lynch you tomorrow unless you die in the night or we get information to prove otherwise.
Though, at the end of the day all of this really isn't for you... it's for the people out there that have night powers, unless they used one on you they don't know that my last block of text isn't correct and the town wouldn't know unless someone could confirm that they did use their night powers on you. (which they shouldn't)
TL;DR pretty much what @Ssaliss said. Which means looking at Synkarin, Celina, and Luce tomorrow. (Oh hey, if there's a three person mafia with that guess that I see mafia chat in my power that's... three people)
"Humans are a self-destructive bunch. Give
them a reason to mistrust each other and they do.." Ermine has said
many things, since she was brought in for safekeeping, but right now, no
words ring more true than that. With no security, with the looming
threat of Ermine's henchmen hanging over the group like a shroud, and
with the peculiar fact that they for some reason have yet to strike, the
small group is left on edge. Lashing out at each other, flinging
accusations and bitterness all about themselves with enough vitrol to
send the more timid members into hiding. The group is tearing itself
apart, until it just becomes too much. With Celina defended by Luce's
arguments, and the weight of feeling like no one listens to her weighing
her down, Riluna decides to call it quits. And after a longer while of
discussion, a small group eventually decides to let her quit, and they
take her down to the cells, pushing her into one and locking it up
securely. She won't be coming back until after the Ermine matter has
been dealt with.
Before locking her up, you grab her ID card and use it to unlock and go through her files on the system. From that, you learn much.
Riluna was Town
---
You're
Elizabeth. Once upon a time you were a olympic champion. Now you're
training the weird biological AIs that are Chimaeras in martial arts,
gymnastics and sports. You're also a passable bodyguard, which will
be good to have now.
Your ability is Doctor. Once per night, you may
choose a target to protect from night kills.
---
After the mess that was the last meeting, it's decided
that people may be getting a bit loopy. Probably from a lack of food.
It's not exactly safe with Ermine's henchmen about, assuming they even
exist. But food is a necessity to avoid a repeat of all this stress and
frustration, so the group once more splits up. This time to search for
food, or the key to the cafeteria.
It is now Nightphase 2.
You have 48 hours to get in all night-actions.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Pollux twists and turns in his sleep, occasionally muttering "foood...foood....".
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Success! After an hour of searching, the group meets up again, and to their great delight, Luce has found the key to the cafeteria. They unlock the doors, leaving Siam, Ssaliss and Tarkenton to do the cooking. After a quick meal of tomato soup and buttered bread, the group does another headcount. It seems that everyone is still there, safe and sound.
That of course means that with 14 around, it is 8 to lynch.
It is now Dayphase 3
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
"'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in." -Synkarin's Lament.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I tracked someone, and a scary chimaera prevented me from learning anything.
I discovered that I do not have a second power, but there is a person who can investigate a person, but does not learn anything themselves, but transmits that information to a second person of their choosing. They cannot choose themselves. I also know who this person is.
Comments
Thing is, if Celina was the spy, she could have just pushed earlier to have Riluna lynched instead of trying to find another target. Doctor is one of the bigger roles for blocking mafia activity even if it's limited, and until Riluna claimed it (and no one called foul), I was assuming Riluna was an Executioner whose target was Celina. If Celina was mafia, why'd she state, early and often, that Riluna was town? Why not just keep that quiet about it, or outright point the finger? It took the thread literally devolving into namecalling for me to get so tired of it that I voted the way I did.
As to the (repeated) assertion that having power roles and using them or relying on them is going to doom the town, mafia can and does have power roles as well, and we need to counter those. And since the game has power roles at all, we have to weigh those powers into our decisions.
The idea that a lynch is required for discussion to have meaning is odd, and the fact is the vast majority of the 'discussion' from today was empty at best, and distracting at worst is a testament to that.
Other notes that came to mind. Because of the idea being pushed so hard that we can't have information without either a lynch or a near-lynch, mafia knows for sure that we have a doctor, a lookout, what looks like a stalker, and my role, and they know we have a roleblocker. Riluna is right in that we can still win, but the Mafia now knows at least 3 of our roles and can use that to make decisions about who to lynch. Dangerously, aside from the roleblocker (don't announce who you are, please) those roles belong to people who were, by and large, the talkative ones.
Also I do note that when people found out I had a night power that doesn't give me much information they jumped off the bandwagon on me, this happened again once Celina revealed our doctor. But now suddenly a group are pushing to lynch the one roll out of those three that could actually help and interfere with the mafia?
Most interesting, frustrating someone to the point they don't want to play is a new low for the mafia if that's your tactic.
Also as you've taken the chance to remind us, yes powers can exist on both sides. An example being that you could be a mob lawyer who just protected one of the mafia from a lynch and are continuing to defend them.
If the mafia is four that's three people that can agree with you or come up with their own arguments against a target. Thereby making it appear as if many people are concerned about that person when it can just be the mafia working together.
Right now I'm honestly more interested in removing Riluna due to the tone and agression of her posts than for any gameplay concern. We're losing a powerful role in the offing, but the last few pages of bickering were seriously not cool. Talk about frustrating one player to the point of wanting to quit all you want, but the idea of having to deal with that for how many ever game cycles happened before I ended up mafia'd or lynched had me reconsidering my decision to join as well, and I sincerely doubt I was the only one.
Empty quoted for emphasis.
Also that makes eight by my count. Someone double count that.
This issue with this argument is that if Celina is scum then she has the capacity to identify town night roles, she also has a decent chance of identifying the valuable roles in the town and by allowing her another night she has the chance to identify a role such as the blocker.
At that point she doesn't need to survive tomorrow, she can start the day literally with a "mafia bros, kill x they're the blocker". She can even just attempt to get the town to lynch this person by following her claims again, even if it falls apart it wouldn't matter to her.
Killing her would have confirmed her improbable role claim and made Riluna look rather scummy for in-game reasons, ensuring a quick lynching on day 3.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
I'll just say that while I certainly don't agree with Rilunas language, I also definitely don't agree with killing her. Sure, her power was more or less useless at this point, since she'd only be able to protect herself, but at the same time... she's more or less confirmed as a town. If the lynch hadn't happened, I would've gone for Synkarin, to be honest.
Also, this lynch won't actually confirm anything at all, other than that Riluna was the doctor (which is at least partially confirmed already); we still won't know that Celina speaks the truth, since she easily could've said "Yeah, I know who the doctor is", and when the doctor appears, pointing and saying "See, there's the doctor".
Really though, if you're telling the truth we should have assumed so was she because you yourself were confirming her role.
You power could work by revealing people based on criteria other than targeting you, which means two people targeted you aside from myself, you targeted Synkarin, the blocker blocked Riluna, Riluna didn't act as the doctor, and the mafia didn't kill for some reason.
Of course, the other thought that has occurred to me is that with my power I might see scum talk as people visiting the target (it just being assumed they use that privilege every night), if we expect that the scum each have a power then it would make sense for their numbers to be lower than normal and three scum would then not be unexpected in such a game, which in turn could mean that you are scum and no one else used a night power on you last night.
In that context Luce's power would be intended as a last ditch effort for the scum, a way to protect their more valuable roles near the end of the game, which makes sense if he'd use it to save a mafia investigator, giving another night for the mafia to investigate and find a powerful role. As, we probably have to lynch you tomorrow unless you die in the night or we get information to prove otherwise.
Though, at the end of the day all of this really isn't for you... it's for the people out there that have night powers, unless they used one on you they don't know that my last block of text isn't correct and the town wouldn't know unless someone could confirm that they did use their night powers on you. (which they shouldn't)
TL;DR pretty much what @Ssaliss said. Which means looking at Synkarin, Celina, and Luce tomorrow. (Oh hey, if there's a three person mafia with that guess that I see mafia chat in my power that's... three people)
"Humans are a self-destructive bunch. Give them a reason to mistrust each other and they do.." Ermine has said many things, since she was brought in for safekeeping, but right now, no words ring more true than that. With no security, with the looming threat of Ermine's henchmen hanging over the group like a shroud, and with the peculiar fact that they for some reason have yet to strike, the small group is left on edge. Lashing out at each other, flinging accusations and bitterness all about themselves with enough vitrol to send the more timid members into hiding. The group is tearing itself apart, until it just becomes too much. With Celina defended by Luce's arguments, and the weight of feeling like no one listens to her weighing her down, Riluna decides to call it quits. And after a longer while of discussion, a small group eventually decides to let her quit, and they take her down to the cells, pushing her into one and locking it up securely. She won't be coming back until after the Ermine matter has been dealt with.
Before locking her up, you grab her ID card and use it to unlock and go through her files on the system. From that, you learn much.
Riluna was Town
---
You're Elizabeth. Once upon a time you were a olympic champion. Now you're training the weird biological AIs that are Chimaeras in martial arts, gymnastics and sports. You're also a passable bodyguard, which will be good to have now.
Your ability is Doctor. Once per night, you may choose a target to protect from night kills.
---
After the mess that was the last meeting, it's decided that people may be getting a bit loopy. Probably from a lack of food. It's not exactly safe with Ermine's henchmen about, assuming they even exist. But food is a necessity to avoid a repeat of all this stress and frustration, so the group once more splits up. This time to search for food, or the key to the cafeteria.
It is now Nightphase 2.
You have 48 hours to get in all night-actions.
That of course means that with 14 around, it is 8 to lynch.
It is now Dayphase 3
1) we got lucky with our blocker.
2) Xeria is actually scum and her not being around is not allowing the mafia to kill (because they need all members to agree?).
3) we have another protector that also worked out.
I would say in order of most likely - 2, 1, 3.
@Celina I assume that person targeted themselves and sent it to you?