Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I also don't know how productive it is trying to base conclusions on "typical" mafia games. A doctor might only protect from night kills, but powers to prevent targeted action on a specific person, be it a third party power or a power of that person, are not unusual.
I'm just giving you the info, trying to warp it to fit conclusions isn't going to lead to smart decisions.
She was unable to differentiate between a role reveal and a night action. In one instance, the message was so fuzzy she didn't realise she wasn't the target, and the next night, she got such a detailed description that she even knows the person who sent her the visions couldn't send them to themselves? Also, why would they send that to Celina instead of someone else if they wanted to give her confirmation about their existance? Had they sent information to, say, Saran instead, he would've been able to back Celina up on it.
She keeps trying to divert our attention. First, she tried to make people suspect me because she was unable to stalk me. After that, she tried to suggest we kill off the inactives.
So far, the only information we've gotten from her is that she:
Knew who the protector was. That's a very easy thing to say; I could claim I know who the blocker is, and then keep quiet about it until they reveal themselves and then go "See, I told you I knew who it was".
Knows who the "mysterious person" is. See 1) as for why I don't believe her there.
Saw Synkarin doing nothing. Since there's already suspicion that he's scum (from several people), it wouldn't exactly be a stretch to say that she knew he didn't do anything already.
One thing I cannot help but wonder is if she was actually trying to stalk me or if she was trying to kill me. If she weren't blocked, she could've easily claimed she saw me doing anything or nothing, and there would've been nothing anyone would be able to say about it, especially if she waited for Saran to post his information first, or alternatively say she stalked someone else instead, since Saran doesn't see who, just how many. As it is, there's absolutely no way to say for certain what she tried to do, aside from the fact that she was prevented from doing something to me, and there was no kill.
I also don't know how productive it is trying to base conclusions on "typical" mafia games. A doctor might only protect from night kills, but powers to prevent targeted action on a specific person, be it a third party power or a power of that person, are not unusual.
I'm just giving you the info, trying to warp it to fit conclusions isn't going to lead to smart decisions.
VOTE: Celina
You are correct such powers are not unexpected, and as you are apparently aware of this it's a little odd to me that you wouldn't have suggested such a role until prompted.
Which is interesting considering Ssaliss has also noted that you don't really give us information that couldn't be easily faked. As Ssaliss has mentioned, you could be just claiming tracker, pretending to have tracked Synkarin who also seems scummy. (you two should have co-ordinated better with the inactives lynching though, Synkarin seems oddly interested in the possibility of getting two kills during the day for someone who was arguing to limit lynching in the last day)
The visions may be real, which at least accounts for one person visiting you on the first night (though we still don't know the second power used on you) but that's also something you don't control and also problematic. If this person has revealed themselves to you and you're scum then by tomorrow night the scum will know. Also if we don't see a kill tomorrow night then it's almost certain that we have a cult (even though my role makes me think otherwise, though there is a possibility I just realised), if we have a cult then you've just made yourself their target.
Today, you have also acted reactively as is typical of the scum. Given what you have claimed and the quoted post, your vote on Ssaliss is also rather interesting. I don't think the town can really trust you, and it would have been better for the town all around had you been lynched yesterday.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Frankly, your perspective is largely nonsensical, and difficult to respond to because you are retaining the habit of, I can only assume at this point, deliberate misrepresentation. You'll note that you said I was "convinced" I was blocked, I responded with the actual facts which can be verified by reading the posts above it, and you have conveniently breezed over that. I am confident you remain on the Riluna bandwagon, and unfortunately that puts me in an impossible situation. You are convinced I am scum, and any argument to the contrary is convenient proof of that, or how scum would "typically behave."
Even now, you are claiming "it's a little odd to me that you wouldn't have suggested such a role until prompted," but as anyone who is reading can tell, you in no way prompted me for anything.
This stretches as far back as accusing Synkarin of trying to bully Riluna out of the game, which was wildly baseless. I am convinced you have your perspective, and come hell or high water, you are going to stick to it and the town is going to suffer for it.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I will respond to Ssaliss's points, however.
Simple solution: Don't lynch me today, and the person with the vision power can send a vision of me to Saran. Then I will be confirmed.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Simple solution: Don't lynch me today, and the person with the vision power can send a vision of me to Saran. Then I will be confirmed.
No, that a person who sends visions to other players will be confirmed?
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I don't understand the question.
I am claiming that a townie, who revealed themselves to me, is sending me visions of other roles (including theirs). I know who this person is. I am asking this person to send a vision of myself to Saran. They will not reveal themselves to Saran because that is not the nature of their power unless they send a vision of themselves (or at least that's my assumptiong at this point) to their target.
It will confirm my tracking ability to Saran, thus dispelling Ssaliss's suspicions that I tried to kill him or that I made up tracking Synkarin because we're in cahoots, and it will also confirm that my vision information has not been made up, further dispelling Ssaliss's concerns about the existance of the person.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Lynching me may prompt this person to come out and confirm their powers, which could go either way. They can still participate but not vote after they are murdered, according to their role.
The flip side is if I'm really scum and you try to lynch me, I would just reveal them on my 6th or 7th vote to ensure the mafia got the info.
It's in the town's best interest to avoid both of these if possible (though the second is just speculation to make a point), which is why I suggest my method. My method will also confirm the pile of info I have given to the town.
@Celina please remember, you're also the person who tried to convince the town it was a bad idea to try and lynch someone because there might be a power that gets triggered when someone is lynched. Also you only mentioned other possible powers after I mentioned that your claimed power would not be blocked by the roles you were talking about.
The other issue for me is that I think you are scum, if we wait for your plan to play out and counting on this vision power to send your role to me tomorrow night. I expect I will be killed in the night, especially given that you killed our doctor. At which point, do you expect the town wait for the next night for someone else to receive the vision?
Again if my thoughts regarding what has happened are correct, then either the mafia will kill tomorrow night, or we have a cult being labelled as a mafia.
Synkarin seems the most suspicious with the attempted double-lynch manouevre, almost like he's TRYING to get more of the town killed off. Still, I'm going to toss out two.
fos: Celina
The fact that we lost our protector means that Celina was viewed as scummy, so if we do have a blocker, they would target her and try and keep her from doing things. Now, it's entirely possible that the Mafia have a tracker, and she's that, and from what I've read online (Hey, Riluna's 'google it' worked for something) you can't activate your power and actively attempt to kill someone in the same night. So she could cleverly have tried to kill someone and say she was attempting to use a tracking power that she may well have. While I don't think she's scum, it is a possible tactic, and I've got to be a little suspicious.
fos: Ssaliss
It's entirely possible that Ssaliss has some sort of guardian angel around him, something like a godfather wherein he can't be killed at night or targetted for certain things. Given that this is a slightly skewed version of Mafia, I'd think it's safe to assume that other than the mafia we don't have night-killers, so it would make sense for a god-father's power to be: Investigative powers targetted at you will not work. Since the Mafia are so closely intertwined with the chimera, I think a flavour message for one of Ermine's lieutenants could easily be a scary chimera blocking any attempt at garnering information.
Just some thoughts I had, could mean nothing or a whole lot. Just thought I'd share (might not be too terribly active this weekend since I'm house-sitting, but will give it a good try!).
She was unable to differentiate between a role reveal and a night action. In one instance, the message was so fuzzy she didn't realise she wasn't the target, and the next night, she got such a detailed description that she even knows the person who sent her the visions couldn't send them to themselves? Also, why would they send that to Celina instead of someone else if they wanted to give her confirmation about their existance? Had they sent information to, say, Saran instead, he would've been able to back Celina up on it.
She keeps trying to divert our attention. First, she tried to make people suspect me because she was unable to stalk me. After that, she tried to suggest we kill off the inactives.
So far, the only information we've gotten from her is that she:
Knew who the protector was. That's a very easy thing to say; I could claim I know who the blocker is, and then keep quiet about it until they reveal themselves and then go "See, I told you I knew who it was".
Knows who the "mysterious person" is. See 1) as for why I don't believe her there.
Saw Synkarin doing nothing. Since there's already suspicion that he's scum (from several people), it wouldn't exactly be a stretch to say that she knew he didn't do anything already.
One thing I cannot help but wonder is if she was actually trying to stalk me or if she was trying to kill me. If she weren't blocked, she could've easily claimed she saw me doing anything or nothing, and there would've been nothing anyone would be able to say about it, especially if she waited for Saran to post his information first, or alternatively say she stalked someone else instead, since Saran doesn't see who, just how many. As it is, there's absolutely no way to say for certain what she tried to do, aside from the fact that she was prevented from doing something to me, and there was no kill.
Regarding #1:
I do recall that Celina just received a vision and confused it for the second power. She was quite vocal about it. I think the vision person sent a vision of themselves during the second night to clear her confusion out - which is quite evident since she was able to explain how the vision-thing worked out.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
An observation in the form of a question: Is it possible mafia have a form of Jailor? Someone who both roleblocks and protects a target at the same time?
Lynching me may prompt this person to come out and confirm their powers, which could go either way. They can still participate but not vote after they are murdered, according to their role.
The flip side is if I'm really scum and you try to lynch me, I would just reveal them on my 6th or 7th vote to ensure the mafia got the info.
It's in the town's best interest to avoid both of these if possible (though the second is just speculation to make a point), which is why I suggest my method. My method will also confirm the pile of info I have given to the town.
Hmm. I'm really tempted to agree to that, to be honest. The issue is, of course, that if you are scum, then you'll give them that information during the night anyway, meaning there'd be little way to protect them (assuming there are multiple protectors) since the town won't know about who to protect. For now though, I'll just Unvote.
An observation in the form of a question: Is it possible mafia have a form of Jailor? Someone who both roleblocks and protects a target at the same time?
I'd assume the scum can have most powers that town can, so I'd assume they'd be able to, yes. It would be fairly powerful though, since they'd be able to use it at will, while a town jailor might not want to use it for fear they'll jail the cop, protector or blocker though.
I do recall that Celina just received a vision and confused it for the second power. She was quite vocal about it. I think the vision person sent a vision of themselves during the second night to clear her confusion out - which is quite evident since she was able to explain how the vision-thing worked out.
My main issue with it is that there seem to be a rather large difference in the amount of information given. During the first night, it was so vague that Celina thought that she was protected by Riluna, while in the second night, it was so specific she knew every detail of the power.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Again, misrepresentation. It's a trend, isn't it.
I mentioned that I had played previous games where I had that power, and the context of that discussion was Riluna arguing we should just lynch and powers didn't matter. The counter point was that Lusternian games tend to be very power heavy and that needs to be accounted for. There was never a suggestion that we should not lynch based on any assumption of a power that may or may not exist. Simply a discussion about whether or not the trend of lusternia mafia games being power heavy required a more cautious approach to random lynches. I believe it does, which was what the whole riluna vs celina thing boiled down to, but was never an advocation (despite what you are Riluna want to say over and over and over) for not lynching at all, under any circumstance.
I've mentioned several powers/roles in the discussion in a broad sense. You took it upon yourself to define what I was saying as something that would not block my power, never once did I state it had to have been a doctor with a protector role. I actually accounted for other possibilities while I was explaining my suspicion of Ssaliss, you can go back and read them. You didn't prompt me for anything, as I said, and other possibilities had already been noted by me.
I was was high level and possible scenarios. You, again, are not being honest about the context. Like I have already clarified for you earlier, I never stated I was "convinced" about Ssaliss or that I was blocked vs protected/whatever.
This is not a rational pursuit. We know this because you just stated "because you killed our doctor," as in me specifically, and not Riluna decided she wanted out of the game so the town collectively lynched her. Which is actually the literal description of what happened.
Whether or not you die tonight certainly is a possibility. However, this is the logical continuance of the position you started and continue to push for. I cannot rationalize away your concerns if you we can't even agree on what the reality of the conversations taking place is. The only way to resolve it is with hard evidence, and at this point that is either me dying to a lynch mob or you taking a gamble and getting the axe tonight.
If you end up dying over night, given what you just said, and it's my decision to make as a member of the mafia, that basically paints me as scum which would be a really stupid thing for me to do to myself. It would make no sense whatsoever.
It's entirely possible that Ssaliss has some sort of guardian angel around him, something like a godfather wherein he can't be killed at night or targetted for certain things. Given that this is a slightly skewed version of Mafia, I'd think it's safe to assume that other than the mafia we don't have night-killers, so it would make sense for a god-father's power to be: Investigative powers targetted at you will not work. Since the Mafia are so closely intertwined with the chimera, I think a flavour message for one of Ermine's lieutenants could easily be a scary chimera blocking any attempt at garnering information.
Just some thoughts I had, could mean nothing or a whole lot. Just thought I'd share (might not be too terribly active this weekend since I'm house-sitting, but will give it a good try!).
I think saying "Everything that has to do with chimera are scum" is a pretty dangerous line of thought. Odds are there are both chimera and humans on both sides of this.
2
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I do recall that Celina just received a vision and confused it for the second power. She was quite vocal about it. I think the vision person sent a vision of themselves during the second night to clear her confusion out - which is quite evident since she was able to explain how the vision-thing worked out.
My main issue with it is that there seem to be a rather large difference in the amount of information given. During the first night, it was so vague that Celina thought that she was protected by Riluna, while in the second night, it was so specific she knew every detail of the power.
I can explain that. Visions come in two parts. Flavor text and role reveal. The first, due to it being flavor text, is kind of vague. Role reveal is very explicit and mechanical, it explains the person's powers in mechanical terms.
The confusion from my first post was from the flavor message. The clarity from the second post came from the role reveal.
The plan just seems... Dumb. Wait for night for someone to show Saran that Celina is really a tracker, when Celina knows who this person is. Assuming Celina is scum, Saran would be likely to die in the night, conveniently making him unable to confirm your role, then risking that person to eventually die and lose their vote the next time.
Between that, and the points that others have raised, just feels too scummy to me.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Wait, how is that scenario any different that what could happen after you lynch me. Saran could still die, she's a confirmed townie with powers.
It makes no sense for me to incriminate myself as a member of the mafia by killing Saran on the same day the town tells me "if Saran dies, you die too." How is that "convenient" for me? That's just a death sentence for me.
Saran's paranoia I get, he can look at diamonds and see coal, but Tremula is off.
It simply makes no sense to lynch someone who is inactive simply because they are inactive. They're going to die anyway as Kiradawea already stated, so lynching them is just wasting a potential scum lynch.
I didn't say we had to lynch someone, just that lynching someone whose going to die anyway is dumb.
Anyway, Tremula is striking me a little suspicious now.
I'm curious why Shaddus jumped on the 'lynch Ssaliss train'
Considering how the game has gone so far, it honestly wouldn't surprise me that you could twist it around.
That being said, assuming you're scum, and someone else ends up lynched who's town, combined with Xeria dying if she doesn't post, that puts you guys up potentially three kills assuming night time, for the cost of you. Since your powers are known, and you come off as suspicious to the people that are active (looking over the previous pages) it's a nice ploy to cause as much chaos as possible.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
So, hypothetically you lynch me and I'm town, where does that leave the town? Your next target is Synkarin under the assumption he and I are working together, so I assume he'd be a lot less suspicious. I'm just curious about what is the plan if my plan is not satisfactory?
If you do happen to be town, then it's time to start examining people that are staying quiet, since that's a classic scum technique from what I've read.
Eh, time to get this moving. I still prefer lynching an inactive player.
VOTE: XERIA
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Lynching Xeria feels roughly equivalent to a no-lynch to me, since we know they're on the verge of being gone. I'd rather just remove that slot from our considerations and play like we're a man down.
Yes, in the worst case scenario, we lynch a townsperson, and then lose someone in the night, and lose Xeria all at once for a big swing in Ermine's favor. But what's the best case scenario if we lynch Xeria? The off-chance that they're scum? The most likely outcome is that we're two down instead of three, which is still a big swing in Ermine's direction that we'd be being really passive about.
If we lynch someone else, we at least have a shot of making it a net-one swing.
@Tarkenton: Interestingly, it's also a common scum strategy to direct attention to the quiet people in the game.
@Celina: If you are scum then it's one of the few times that you could get away with lynching someone opposed to you. Because you'd just argue the next day that the scum are trying to prevent your role from being confirmed. They also have zero reason not to attempt a lynch on me, either:
I see you're scum and I die (or get converted)
OR
I see you're townie and I die so the mafia can make you look suss
Both result in you spending the next day trying to convince everyone that you're not scum, it is always in the best interest of the mafia to attempt to ruin any of our plans.
@Synkarin: Hey, if you're not paranoid in a game of mafia then you're the mafia.
Comments
To summarise my suspicions of Celina:
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Hmm. I'm really tempted to agree to that, to be honest. The issue is, of course, that if you are scum, then you'll give them that information during the night anyway, meaning there'd be little way to protect them (assuming there are multiple protectors) since the town won't know about who to protect. For now though, I'll just Unvote.
I'd assume the scum can have most powers that town can, so I'd assume they'd be able to, yes. It would be fairly powerful though, since they'd be able to use it at will, while a town jailor might not want to use it for fear they'll jail the cop, protector or blocker though.
The plan just seems... Dumb. Wait for night for someone to show Saran that Celina is really a tracker, when Celina knows who this person is. Assuming Celina is scum, Saran would be likely to die in the night, conveniently making him unable to confirm your role, then risking that person to eventually die and lose their vote the next time.
Between that, and the points that others have raised, just feels too scummy to me.
That being said, assuming you're scum, and someone else ends up lynched who's town, combined with Xeria dying if she doesn't post, that puts you guys up potentially three kills assuming night time, for the cost of you. Since your powers are known, and you come off as suspicious to the people that are active (looking over the previous pages) it's a nice ploy to cause as much chaos as possible.
Yes, in the worst case scenario, we lynch a townsperson, and then lose someone in the night, and lose Xeria all at once for a big swing in Ermine's favor. But what's the best case scenario if we lynch Xeria? The off-chance that they're scum? The most likely outcome is that we're two down instead of three, which is still a big swing in Ermine's direction that we'd be being really passive about.
If we lynch someone else, we at least have a shot of making it a net-one swing.