Horn of Wonder, Wonder ... who wrote the book of love!

24

Comments

  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,218 Transcendent
    Delsea said:
    Shaddus said:
    The crystals might not be worth 100cr on their own, but to get enough to form an item you have to buy 2000cr.
    You could ostensibly buy 1k credits and with patience, buy crystals at 50 per from people. The only reason these wonder items are so expensive is because people want them "now", not "sooner or later". The real cost here is convenience.
    Perhaps, but then there is no knowing when the crystals will be available again. And each time they've been available, there has been a new wonder item to make, which will continually put the people who can't afford to buy them 'now' further behind. It's not like any other big credit purchase, where you could patiently save up to buy say, a cubix, because you know it will always be there waiting for you in the artifact shop. 

    At least with dingbats there is a regular input of them into the game with elite memberships. 

    Yeah, I think it's this. 

    I was under the impression that there would potentially be more promotions where we just got wondercrystals without a new wonder item coming around, or just other ways to get them (a "bound" one with Elite every month? or random events that give them out, a month where you could buy them with credits). 

    I guess, maybe they're going into the too hard basket. Especially when people might feel that some of the end results are lacklustre 
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  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent
    And each time there's a sale with a new wonder item, it just funnels more crystals to the new thing rather than creating new ones to help people build half-finished old things.

    Thought: To make Wonderhorn Deafen more interesting, what if it also disrupted channeled actions? Too much for its tier?

  • DavosDavos Member Posts: 103 Master
    My personal opinion that with a limited currency, only the wonderpipe is worth getting. Everything else you can supplement with non-limited currencies and make much better use of your credits.

    I agree with Synkarin that if they were for sale with credits that'd go a long way towards making them more interesting. As it is, I can only buy 20 from a person paying the absolute maximum that people might pay, and even still, people probably want to build stuff themselves so there is simply no market for selling the wondercrystals.

    In terms of economy, if I can get a handfull for 50 credits, then finish out my power I want for 100 each, that's more tempting than the concept that you might not finish something before the promotion ends and then you have to wait another four or five months and then you risk it being a bad promotion, or a new item being released which makes them less likely to ever hit the market.
    Congratulations! By order of Newt Blasterson, you've been named a Master of the Aetherways!
    2015/12/09 23:54:29 - Pejat drained 2000000 power to raise Davos as a Vernal Ascendant.
    You use 80,000,000 of your divine essence. You gain BeauteousThought as a supernumerary power.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    yes, it is why I originally suggested making crystals somehow accessible in the game. Making more wonder items isnt the problem, the problem is trying to keep up with them, and crystals being such a rare commodity to get unless you pull out the credit card. You can in theory scavenge around and trade with people, but it'll be a slow process, and likely before you even finish your item, another wonder item will appear.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    I don't agree in making crystals purchasable IC. It's a rich get richer scheme on an enormous scale. I mean, it already is, but that'll just skyrocket it to ridiculous levels. 

    Think about it, I am currently worth just over 5000 credits (not including my custom beast which is more flavor than anything). This includes a health rune, fire buff rune, gripping, shielding, pipes, RoA, vials, gem, soap, the 1000 credit spark pendant, and the very expensive medallion. Just general combat items. A lot of these could even be considered non required luxury pk items.

    The wonder items are worth what...8000 credits? Everything I own is worth less than a full set of wonder items. Wonder items are also generally worth less, or are more situational, than most of the artifacts I listed. Realistically, you need what I listed before you even bother with maxed out wonder items. 

    So now the problem is that if I want to max myself out further, I need to buy credits I don't need for artifacts I don't want to get gems for absurdly expensive artifacts with specific powers I can use (fire buff) locked behind 5 that I have no need for (cutting buff, blunt buff, permanent enchantments). The wonder gem sale isn't exactly the best way to get the basic arties either. The 30% sale and the present sale are both much better avenues to get the basic combat arties a person would need. 

    So basically it comes down to wonder gems being for people who don't need anything. It's more stuff for people who already have all the other stuff, so you're not engaging the people who are still just buying artifacts to be competitive. You're just engaging the people who need new shit to spend their endless credit piles on. 

    My general complaint about wonder items. Between genies, and buff curios, and wonder shit, it just makes my head spin to think I still can't keep up. 

    And I say that as someone who has invested several thousands into the game. I remember being wide eyed and overwhelmed when credit artifacts were the only thing I had to worry about. To think about what the new players look at now, it's just so much.
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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    tl;dr-I'm not going to bother with wonder items as is. They just need to be cheaper or not locked behind credit purchases, and I don't think converting them into IG luxury purchases resolves this at all. 

    As it stands, either you're going to have some sparkly minor powers at an enormous cost that caters only to the few players with mountains of resources who already have everything, or you're going to buff those powers so that they are the new meta and justify the enormous investment, drive credit sales from the combatants, and remake the PK chasm we worked so hard to get rid of. It's really the only two end scenarios for 2000 credit special access artifacts. 
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  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    I guess I don't understand why making them available in game is so detrimental.

    Yeah, they aren't 100% necessary,  I only have the wonderpipe and will probably only have the wonderpipe unless something changes, and I got it in game via a trade, but how exactly does making them available in game ruin things? The people that have them whether they are grinding it out or dropping the cash have the same advantages, the difference would be everyone could realistically have access to one vs people with disposable income or credit piles.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Not realistically. In-game wondergems will need to be so expensive as to seriously incentivize people spending cash to buy it, that the price tags will be out of reach of the majority of the bell curve. Otherwise, the admin would be basically shooting their own sales figures. In other words, they'll need to cost something that is not realistically accessible to everybody - only a few people.

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    You're only expanding the pool of "haves" from IRL disposal income to include the also very small pool of people with access to enormous amount of IG credits. You're not driving credits sales that way, so you're not addressing the admin's concern, and you're not driving game balance by giving more perks to the very few credit wealthy. So why do it at all? So 10 people in the game have them rather than 5? 

    There is a balance between necessity and accessibility, as a note. Super luxury items like this can go from isolated to necessary part of the meta when it becomes more available. Remember when bublixes were a luxury? Now they are a necessity. Empress, and another level of buffs, and whatever new thing comes next are in the exact same boat. So it needs to be one way or the other, cheaper so actually everyone can have access, or remain locked behind huge credit purchases so they are at least only part of the game's fringe players. The inbetween changes that just make it more accessible for a tiny fraction of players is not a resolution.


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  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    I guess that's what I'm making the argument for, is that they should be accessible to anyone, and I feel they don't have to be crazy expensive per crystal to accomplish that. 

    Bubblixes aren't a necessity by the way, or more people would have them. I only have 4 turns out.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    I am missing the aquagoria bubblix. Silly bubblixes locked behind aethergoop. :(
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  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    Thanks for all the input. Unfortunately, we can't put up wonder crystals as artifacts for credits at this time. I really don't want to get into economics of it all, but suffice to say that not everything is in my hands. Anyway, I was hoping for some ideas on either tweaking the wonder horn or adding a mini wonder item!
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  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    Okay, this may be a silly idea (and I may not be allowed to do it), but:

    Cornucopia of Wonder

    1. 100-500 gold/game month if used
    2. 1-5 random herb/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    3. 1-5 random commodity/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    4. 1-5 random liquid in liquid rift/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    5. 500-1000 gold/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    6. 5-15 random herb/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    7. 5-15 random commodity/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    8. 5-15 random liquid in liquid rift/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    9. Double all gold, herbs, commodities and liquids
    10. Once per game year, one of the following:
    • 5 goop
    • 1 present
    • 5 bound dingbats
    • 1 wonder crystal
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    Only use I would have for that is the maximum (look at my rift sometime...).

    Definitely intriguing, but it is kind of a case of rich-getting-richer. If you can afford the highest one, the benefits are pretty good. If you can't, not much point in assembling a smaller one.

    I think you would be better off giving the one-per-year items at a lower crystal level (say, 5). Then at 10 give it a chance of being able to fire up to 2x (minimum of one, of course). Or something else useful that gives big spenders a reason to spend, but also gives a lesser plateau for the more average player to reach that would be worth spending for.
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  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    I'd be inclined to try to get that, not for anything other than the 10 crystal effect

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    What they said, tbh. Very underwhelming save for the ten crystal perk. I will say nice that it's locked at ten instead of twenty.
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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    Yeah, the 10th level is nice. The problem being that people with 10 crystals aren't usually the people that get that much benefit out of free crap every year. Things that generate free valuables are fine if everyone can get it. If only the "rich" can, i.e. locked behind 1000 credits, they it just makes them richer. 
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  • PejatPejat Member Posts: 104 Adept
    I will throw out a wonder item idea (maybe you are looking for them?)

    The idea behind this one was to give convenience to bashers and questers without making it a must for combat.

    =Gloves of Wonder=
    1) Riding gloves (+1 speed when riding a beast.)
    [Obvious use]
    2) Benediction (uses equilibrium to increase target denizen's Lv, xp, and gold by 20% for one day. The 10% xp increase will stack on top of the 20% stronger denizen)
    [So often we are just given artifacts to make things easier, but some of us like a challenge. This ability makes creatures tougher to fight/influence but rewarding to do so. This ability should not work on city guards, etc.]
    3) Communion (Uses balance and openly lays hands on the target. All tells and aetherchannels that would be received by one of the persons are received by both persons. Lasts until one or the other attempts to move.)
    [A utility ability that people can toy with.]
    4) Benediction 40%
    5) Imperative (Can use the Harmony Akoosh spell for no power but for long eq time)
    [Should be useful for exploring but a high enough eq cost that it would be dangerous to use in combat.]
    6) Benediction 60%
    7) Requisite (For a decent eq cost, All items on the ground and in contains on the ground appear in your inventory.)
    [Meant for questers who are tired of guessing nouns, it just summons all those invisible items into your inventory. Also useful for people who leave thousands of items on the ground.]
    8) Benediction 80%
    9) Benediction 100%
    10)Proclamation (1/day and for 10p respawns all denizens in the area.)
    [Again, should not be able to be used on city guards, etc. It should be used to rehunt an area or makes quests faster as you don't have to wait for things to respawn.]


    For Mister Zvoltz, Pejat has been terminated by the Replicant Dynodeon.
  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    Thanks, Pejat! That's an interesting idea for the gloves. Unfortunately, we really have to stay away from respawning denizens in an area. :( Any alternative ideas?

    Anyone else have ideas for a mini-wonder item?
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  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    Crown of Wonder: (can be worn)

    1: Increased mana regeneration
    2: Pacifism (Surround a creature with an aura of pacifity, calming them if they are aggro)
    3: Your innate intuition has given you a deeper understanding into the realms of chaos and order which you can use to your advantage. 1 free spin on the wheel of chaos per month.
    4: For a short time, double your esteem and karma gain. Usable 3 times per day
    5: Tap into the aether channels of a target for a short time, hearing everything they would hear.
    6: You may expand your understanding of the elemental, gaining an immunity to their effects for a short time (1 hour). Usable 3 times per month.
    7: Prophecy (Once a month, you may tap into the power of the crown and receive a prophecy of what is ahead (similar to current prophecy quests)).
    8: For a short time, make the value of all essence offered by you at your nexus increase by 1.
    9: Speak and understand in any and all languages for a time.

    Suggestions for 10:

    - Channel your planar energies through the crown, and forge a portal to any known plane or bubble. Once a month (Avechna, elementals, cosmics, etherwilde, faethorn, etherglom, Aetherbubbles). Portal will stay standing for 10 mins before collapsing.

    - Once a month, channel 1 racial trait from any race (only below Demi+ allowed). Simply by CROWN CHANNEL <race> <1-4>


    I would also like to suggest that if we are going forward with more wonder items, then I would suggest making genies having a -slight- chance to gift a wonder crystal. This would make at least some form of avenue to gain crystals in-game (other than presents).


    Edit: Fixed and changed up a bit.
    Post edited by Arcanis on
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    Wonderboots:

    1: Constant Waterwalking.
    2. Cuts chance of random movement on elemental planes by 33%.
    3. Gives the HIGHJUMP skill from Acrobatics.
    4. Gives Scaling from Environment. If wearer already has this skill or has it via racial perk, reduce balance cost to scale by 50%.
    5. WONDERBOOTS STOMP: Mark a room in non-enemy territory. This lasts for a Lusternian month. Wearer may WONDERBOOTS CLICK to click their heels and teleport to that room after a short delay (Music Majorsixth, sort of), or WONDERBOOTS THRICECLICK to immediately return to that room and destroy the mark (Hermit tarot without the unoccupied requirement).
    6. Wearer and all in group gain the Pacing defense from Stag.
    7. Wearer has a 15% chance to dodge entanglements (ropes, webbing).
    8. Wearer can WONDERBOOTS LANDSTRIDE on prime to go directly to a village. Acts somewhat like the Catacombs tarot.
    9. Wearer can WONDERBOOTS PRANCE to give themselves the Timeslip defense from Cosmic.
    10. If wearer is slain by a non-loyal mob, character is instantly resurrected (vitae xp loss?) at 50% health and given a 10 second divinefire. Works once a Lusternian month.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • PejatPejat Member Posts: 104 Adept
    That is too bad. Other ideas for the 10 crystal power...

    10) Summon: 1/month summons an smob strength creature. Everyone who is in the room when it dies gains a reward equivalent to having slain a random gigantic ur'trap creature.

    10) Provoking tickle: Allows you to link to astral node for 0 power. This lets you summon the creatures without wasting the power.
    For Mister Zvoltz, Pejat has been terminated by the Replicant Dynodeon.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    -Reduction in karma costs for seals
    -Reduction in karma costs for shrine powers
    -unlimited enchantments (kind of lame but if one wonder item covered all the enchantments it wouldn't be bad as a luxury item)
    -Reduction in karma costs for killing people
    -Immunity from elemental plane movement
    -unlimited sips of mana/health/bromide
    -unlimited sparkle
    -unlimited scroll
    -unlimited smokeable herb (pipe that doesn't have to be refilled)
    -increased essence from offerings
    -Banner bearer thing
    -censer powers
    -double attune location artifact
    -wands of fire/ice


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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,259 Mythical
    Because I'm not creative  enough to flesh out a full mini-item. but here are a few of my ideas:

    Key of Wonder

    1)    Catacombs (teleporting to any village) like effect
    2)   
    3)    Gateweave buff (Allows for faster Gateweaving, stacks with the needle artifact)
    4)    Karma Seal teleport (Allows you to teleport to any of the nine seals)
    5)   
    6)   
    7)   
    8)    Targeted Astral fling (allows you to astral fling to the bubble of your choice)
    9)  Faster Teleporting (includes tesseracting)
    10) Omniscience. (Normal essence costs - 5,000 to use with 50 per minute upkeep. If used by an avatar with the ability, the costs are halfed.)

    (I will fully admit that I really just want the catacombs and karma seal teleport in an item at the 1-3 area, and that I tried to come up with something and failed)
  • KiradaweaKiradawea Member Posts: 1,750 Transcendent
    Estarra said:
    Okay, this may be a silly idea (and I may not be allowed to do it), but:

    Cornucopia of Wonder

    1. 100-500 gold/game month if used
    2. 1-5 random herb/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    3. 1-5 random commodity/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    4. 1-5 random liquid in liquid rift/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    5. 500-1000 gold/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    6. 5-15 random herb/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    7. 5-15 random commodity/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    8. 5-15 random liquid in liquid rift/game month if used (stacked with prior crystals)
    9. Double all gold, herbs, commodities and liquids
    10. Once per game year, one of the following:
    • 5 goop
    • 1 present
    • 5 bound dingbats
    • 1 wonder crystal
    As mentioned before, everything but the 10th effect here is somewhat poor. Gold is pretty much useless to anyone who could afford the cornucopia, and the other three are highly dependant upon your class/trade, with a high probability of getting something useless. They also have a problem in that they introduce something that the basin already has plenty off.

    So... instead. How about this?

    1. Jeremiah Gryphta's Olde Tyme Healing Tonic. Get a new drink every day that can be poured into cups, basic teas included.
    2. Health Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    3. Balance Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    4. Strength Food effect (1/2 universal damage boost) on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    5. Mana Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    6. Ego Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    7. Equilibrium Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    8. Resilience Food effect (?) on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    9. Herofete in the room once per month. Boosted effect for chefs?
    10. The original cornucopia capstone ability.

    The idea here is to take effects that are already generally available to people and make them easier available. The capstone still serves as a goal to build towards, and each step on the way you get something that is guaranteed to be useful, even if only for the convenience it offers. Herofetes already exist in the game, and while I'm unsure if they still provide all the same things as they did before the stat overhaul, this is the best translation I could come up with.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    Wondertorc:
    1. WONDERTORC STUDY to gain that language for a Lusternian month.
    2. If wearer is in a squad/coven/mindlink, all members of that group gain 5% bonus experience. Stacks up to 10 times for a maximum of 50% bonus experience if ten Wondertorc wearers are in the squad.
    3. Wearer gains 5% bonus h/m/e when sipping those potions.
    4. Wearer's identity is masked during shouts.
    5. Wondertorc wearers gain 1/13 defense against a random type. Automatic, changes at midnight on every Lusternian day.
    6. WONDERTORC FOCUS - for the next five minutes, all essence placed into that nexus is worth +1 power.
    7. Wondertorc wearers who sip a health potion have a 25% chance to heal a random physical affliction. Mana heals a mental affliction, Bromides heals a spiritual affliction. Sip must have been on sip balance to work, IE no spamming sips to heal afflictions.
    8. Wondertorc wearers who are directly scried (not farsight) are informed that they have been scried and by whom (aethersight, but only for direct scries). If they already have the aethersight defense up, being directly scried not only activates aethersight, but tells you where that person is that scried you. This second power does not activate the scrying party's own aethersight or mindfield.
    9. WONDERTORC TWIST : Use once a day to hear all tells to and from a particular person for 15 minutes. They are not warned of this.
    10. Decapitation and other timed instakills on the wearer have a 33% chance of failing at the end of the channeled kill.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • DelseaDelsea Member Posts: 105 Adept
    I like how on one hand we're complaining about how hard it is to make these items unless you have a lot of disposable income, and on the other we're racing to throw out ideas for new ones which in the end only exacerbates the problem, at just a slightly lower cost.
  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,661 Transcendent
    If bonus power is enough to make a wonder item worth getting (and I don't know that it is) something like this could be cool for a tiny one focused on long term org gains. I'd have liked them as independent artifacts for credits, but wonder item works too.

    1)+1 power when turning in fae
    2)+1 power when turning in essence
    3)+1 power and culture for bards and scholars, applied after multipliers.
    4)+1 power when generating power through your nexus world (charging polyhedra for Hallifax, putting fish in the urn for Celest, etc.)
    5)Whenever you do something that would increase village feelings (commodity quest if commercial government, influencing if religious, etc) you increase them by an extra X%.

    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • PejatPejat Member Posts: 104 Adept
    Delsea said:
    I like how on one hand we're complaining about how hard it is to make these items unless you have a lot of disposable income, and on the other we're racing to throw out ideas for new ones which in the end only exacerbates the problem, at just a slightly lower cost.
    With all of the curios, dingbat items, credit items, goop items, wonder items, etc, very very few people will be able to play the "gotta catch 'em all" game. New items will come out. What is important is that we think of items that are interesting and useful, but not vital to participate meaningfully in the game.
    For Mister Zvoltz, Pejat has been terminated by the Replicant Dynodeon.
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