Horn of Wonder, Wonder ... who wrote the book of love!

13

Comments

  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    What do people think of Kiradawea's idea?
    Kiradawea said:
    So... instead. How about this?

    1. Jeremiah Gryphta's Olde Tyme Healing Tonic. Get a new drink every day that can be poured into cups, basic teas included.
    2. Health Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    3. Balance Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    4. Strength Food effect (1/2 universal damage boost) on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    5. Mana Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    6. Ego Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    7. Equilibrium Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    8. Resilience Food effect (?) on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    9. Herofete in the room once per month. Boosted effect for chefs?
    10. The original cornucopia capstone ability.

    The idea here is to take effects that are already generally available to people and make them easier available. The capstone still serves as a goal to build towards, and each step on the way you get something that is guaranteed to be useful, even if only for the convenience it offers. Herofetes already exist in the game, and while I'm unsure if they still provide all the same things as they did before the stat overhaul, this is the best translation I could come up with.

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    I like it. Not sure if it's worth 10 crystals per se, but I'd use it.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,259 Mythical
    edited November 2015
    Estarra said:
    What do people think of Kiradawea's idea?
    Kiradawea said:
    So... instead. How about this?

    1. Jeremiah Gryphta's Olde Tyme Healing Tonic. Get a new drink every day that can be poured into cups, basic teas included.
    2. Health Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    3. Balance Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    4. Strength Food effect (1/2 universal damage boost) on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    5. Mana Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    6. Ego Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    7. Equilibrium Food effect on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    8. Resilience Food effect (?) on whomever uses the cornucopia (x times per day?)
    9. Herofete in the room once per month. Boosted effect for chefs?
    10. The original cornucopia capstone ability.

    The idea here is to take effects that are already generally available to people and make them easier available. The capstone still serves as a goal to build towards, and each step on the way you get something that is guaranteed to be useful, even if only for the convenience it offers. Herofetes already exist in the game, and while I'm unsure if they still provide all the same things as they did before the stat overhaul, this is the best translation I could come up with.


    I don't like the idea of the capstone ability. Goop, presents, crystals shouldn't be super easy to get outside  of direct promotions I think.

    How big are these buffs going to be? if it is something small like a 1/5, perhaps the capstone could double the effect (2/10)?
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    The balance effect should be up by the eq effect. 
  • KiradaweaKiradawea Member Posts: 1,750 Transcendent
    The capstone needs to be valuable for people to want to build it. Doubling the benefit you get from food is most certainly not 10 crystals on its own, and the idea itself was based on being useful, neat things that everyone could use on their way to the capstone ability.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,259 Mythical
    Kiradawea said:
    The capstone needs to be valuable for people to want to build it. Doubling the benefit you get from food is most certainly not 10 crystals on its own, and the idea itself was based on being useful, neat things that everyone could use on their way to the capstone ability.
    That may be, but giving out 5 goop/1 present/1wonder crystal every IG year? I think that is a bit much given how rare goop is and what presents can give.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    Honestly? I would not invest in your original suggestion. I would definitely think hard about investing in Kiradawea's, it hits all my buttons for artifacts I like. I love arties that give me general things in permanent form (as you already know).

    I think there is no reason to cap them at x per month since you could buy them (or I as a chef could just make them), and kind of defeats the purpose of buying it, though.

    PS: I disagree with weakening the capstone ability, that is a thousand credit purchase to get to. I certainly would not bother fleshing the thing out past 6 or 7 if it was weakened. Maybe even just stop at 3, the rest would be nice as bonuses along the way to the capstone, but definitely not necessary (but useful enough to make the full investment feel more palatable). Leave the capstone as suggested.
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  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    Ayisdra said:
    Kiradawea said:
    The capstone needs to be valuable for people to want to build it. Doubling the benefit you get from food is most certainly not 10 crystals on its own, and the idea itself was based on being useful, neat things that everyone could use on their way to the capstone ability.
    That may be, but giving out 5 goop/1 present/1wonder crystal every IG year? I think that is a bit much given how rare goop is and what presents can give.
    FYI, its either 5 goop or 1 present or 1 crystal or 5 dingbats, not everything. Could add coin(s) in there too actually.
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    No coins please, they can be gotten other ways and it dilutes the harder to get (and thus more desireable) things.
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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,259 Mythical
    Estarra said:
    Ayisdra said:
    Kiradawea said:
    The capstone needs to be valuable for people to want to build it. Doubling the benefit you get from food is most certainly not 10 crystals on its own, and the idea itself was based on being useful, neat things that everyone could use on their way to the capstone ability.
    That may be, but giving out 5 goop/1 present/1wonder crystal every IG year? I think that is a bit much given how rare goop is and what presents can give.
    FYI, its either 5 goop or 1 present or 1 crystal or 5 dingbats, not everything. Could add coin(s) in there too actually.
    I am aware it is one of them. Would the wonder crystal be sellable? And would the present a normal persent (one that increases presents counter instead of being a standard level one that doesn't increase the presents)?

    With decent luck, this mini-item can easily pay itself off. Sure these are extreme edge cases, but it is the first thing I think of when I look at such an item and how 'OP' it could be.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    All items like that can pay itself off... over time.  "Easily" isn't in the picture, you need to do it over time.  But my infinite health vial has paid itself off.  Treasure maps will, genie bottles will, trade artifacts will, etc, etc.  Are you suggesting we delete all of them?

    Complaining that something will eventually pay itself off is a silly argument.  :/
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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    How about opinions on the other suggestions besides Kiradawea's?
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    Nothing of the others really stuck out to me as being "I want that," Kiradawea's was the only one I read that was really "Hmm, that's interesting."  Like, for example, your wonderboots?  I already have pretty much all of that via other arties.
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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,259 Mythical
    Xenthos said:
    All items like that can pay itself off... over time.  "Easily" isn't in the picture, you need to do it over time.  But my infinite health vial has paid itself off.  Treasure maps will, genie bottles will, trade artifacts will, etc, etc.  Are you suggesting we delete all of them?

    Complaining that something will eventually pay itself off is a silly argument.  :/
    My main complaint is how often you can get one of those four. Maybe I'm odd in thinking that 2 RL weeks pretty quick. That when you only have those things to choose from (unlike the stocking or genies that have nearly every comm to pick from), you are going to get some rather high priced things (goop/present items, to a lesser point the crystals) rather quick from having this mini-item. But who am I, maybe I'm wrong in thinking that this will become the basic 'must have wonderitem' (I know being a non-combatant and the way I play the game makes my view skewed in what is OP and what is not, but I see this as something that you 'need' because a 75% chance (dingbats would be the only 'whatever' item of the four to me) to get something really good.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    Ayisdra said:
    Xenthos said:
    All items like that can pay itself off... over time.  "Easily" isn't in the picture, you need to do it over time.  But my infinite health vial has paid itself off.  Treasure maps will, genie bottles will, trade artifacts will, etc, etc.  Are you suggesting we delete all of them?

    Complaining that something will eventually pay itself off is a silly argument.  :/
    My main complaint is how often you can get one of those four. Maybe I'm odd in thinking that 2 RL weeks pretty quick. That when you only have those things to choose from (unlike the stocking or genies that have nearly every comm to pick from), you are going to get some rather high priced things (goop/present items, to a lesser point the crystals) rather quick from having this mini-item. But who am I, maybe I'm wrong in thinking that this will become the basic 'must have wonderitem' (I know being a non-combatant and the way I play the game makes my view skewed in what is OP and what is not, but I see this as something that you 'need' because a 75% chance (dingbats would be the only 'whatever' item of the four to me) to get something really good.
    What you're missing is that there are 12 genie bottles (if you have one of each) and you can use each of them every RL day.  And you could have even more than 12 if you want!  So no, I don't see once per IC year for this being "often," I see it as being more consistent and less RNG driven but still something that accumulates in your favour over time.

    As such, it seems perfectly fine to me.
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  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,681 Transcendent
    She's right though. The item would easily and quickly outpace the profits from all those things you listed earlier.
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,259 Mythical
    As Rivius said.

    THe genies can select from 150 some comms (along with minor artifacts).

    The chances of getting a present from a genie are super low.

    THis wonderitem gives a 25% chance. That easily is worth it on its own. When you add 5 goop ( a nice item to have with some of the goop-only things like censors and whatnot), the 'niceness' goes up. It goes up again when you add a crystal (a 50-100cr value thing that you can sell (maybe) or use for your own things).

    Let's say I have a bunch of these wonderitems. The output then would be even more insane.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    Er, I get kissable lips from my genies on a regular basis.  That's 20cr per pop too.  On top of the other options (coins, presents, etc).  It's not just the low chance of a present.

    Edit: As a note, I've made over two thousand credits from my genies in kissable lips alone that I traded in, and I have another 660 credits worth of lips sitting in my inventory unconverted.  Note that this is over the course of a very long period of time playing the game, though!  And it's all RNG, just like the new thing would be.  As Pejat pointed out, the wonder-thing would be limited to one whereas someone could theoretically get an infinite number of genies.
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  • PejatPejat Member Posts: 104 Adept
    Ayisdra said:

    Let's say I have a bunch of these wonderitems. The output then would be even more insane.
    You can only have one of each wonder item. That is just the way they were designed.
    For Mister Zvoltz, Pejat has been terminated by the Replicant Dynodeon.
  • LorahLorah Member Posts: 26 Apprentice
    Maybe if there was a cheaper incentive to get people into the wondercrystals with a greater spread through the actual wonder items. If the effects were spread evenly with good boons at both start, middle and end (though I imagine you'd run out of the good buffs quickly) you could offer a 'no-brainer wondercrystal' offer for 'bound wondercrystals'. That would get people over the investment hump for a greater part and encourage people to finish them. Not being an invested combatant, though, am not sure if that'd work at all. Only problem with that is that people might just buy the 'no-brainer' package and use those bound crystals alone for x,y,z low level effects across the wonderitems. I suppose that's still a plus if that entices people to purchase.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    Another thing you're missing is that wonder crystals can't be converted directly to credits (to my knowledge, at least), unlike lips.  The other person is going to have to buy those unbound credits to trade to you for your crystals (assuming you want to turn them into credits, as you are positing), so it still encourages purchasing and buying credits.  Another net positive! :)
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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,259 Mythical

    Xenthos said:
    Another thing you're missing is that wonder crystals can't be converted directly to credits (to my knowledge, at least), unlike lips.  The other person is going to have to buy those unbound credits to trade to you for your crystals (assuming you want to turn them into credits, as you are positing), so it still encourages purchasing and buying credits.  Another net positive! :)
    While you can't convert direclty, you can still place a value on them. To my knowledge, crystals can go anywhere between 50-100 credits (maybe a bit more depending on how bad people want them).

    I never said that this new mini-item wouldn't discourage purchasing credits. I know fully that it would encourage it. I know I would be highly tempted to try and get enough crystals to make one of these items knowing I have a 25% chance at a present or goop every IG year.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    What I am saying is that it will encourage additional credit purchases from other players looking to finish their sets. If a player wants to buy a crystal, they need unbound credits. Crystals do not create credits out of thin air (unlike genie bottles) so someone has to do something to generate revenue or other value for the game.

    Your concern is actually a positive, not a negative. Especially when compared to the other arties that generate goodies.
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  • ShonjirShonjir Member Posts: 69 Adept
    I only bought ooc credits because I found people willing to pay 100 credits or over for the crystal piece.

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    I don't care if it's genies or wonder items, exclusive artifacts that generate credits/credit related items are just going to create wealth gaps over time. 400 days is not a long time when you consider some players have been around for 10 years. 

    Wonder item is going to be more lucrative than genies because it generates things that are locked behind credit sales and potentially for more profitable than credits alone like lips provide. Presents can be extraordinarily profitable, crystals are an extremely limited commodity, and dingbats are worth at least their weight in credits, if not more depending on when you sell them. 

    Personally I hate the idea of in game wealth creating items that cost a fortune. It's just a way for people with resources to generate more resources. It does nothing for 95% of the players. 
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  • MoiMoi Member Posts: 1,213 Transcendent
    I don't have mini wonder item ideas right now, so let me just talk about what I would/would not buy if they became available (speaking as someone who has a 20 crystal wonderwand and a 1 crystal set of wings, but never bought anything else):

    Crown of Wonder: 5 crystals. That said, I do not think there should be an item that gives prophesies or infiltrate.

    Wonderboots: 1 crystal. I already have most of the stuff Shaddus suggests, but I would be happy to pay ~30$ for infinite waterwalking and 100 credits.

    Cornucopia of Wonder: As others have said, either version, all the way up to 10. That said, the "pull random stuff out of it every month" arrangement in Estarra's suggestion appeals to me as an individual, so my ideal version would be Kiradawea's but with #1 replaced with "one random entry off of Estarra's 1-8 list per month" and #9 from Estarra's list. Others would probably disagree.

    Wondertorc: Despite being unbalanced, I would not buy this.
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent
    Can my requests for the horn at least be properly shot down with an explanation? I hate feeling like I'm being ignored moreso than that.  :-<
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,895 Transcendent
    Ps: Gnomish surfboard already provides infinite (unstrippable) waterwalk everywhere except aquamesnes, and you can rub it for the enchantment which works even in aquamesnes. If you want to buy it, you already can.
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  • LothringenLothringen Member Posts: 266 Fabled
    The problem with the cornucopia, for me, is that it's too good not to have, which makes it feel like a requirement to purchase. Totally sympathetic to the business perspective on making it a thing, but that sense of necessity leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    Also I can't control myself now that I have disposable income. X_X
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