Reign - The Mafia Game Thread - English Mafia Win!

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  • Silvanus said:
    Well I was reading the bios of some of those characters mentioned in the show, and especially Sebastian de Poitiers(who isn't real). From what I can gather, the push for his legitimization stemmed from the Nostradamus prediction about King Henry, which the show adapted for Francis. If he marries Mary, they die. But the prophecy changes and Sebastian loses out and chases the thing called The Darkness, a pagan. Finding out what religion Chirbo is would be important before advancing the day.
    Chirbo already proclaimed that he wasn't Catholic. While this most likely makes him Protestant, though I suppose he could theoretically be faithless. Either way, I'm curious what more you'd hope to learn from Chirbo before a potential lynch. We won't be able to confirm his faith except by a religion investigator, and it'd be a waste for them to investigate Chirbo and reveal themselves over him.

    Also, regarding the idea of having everyone mass name-claim. If we're going to do that, there are two things I'd like us to consider. First, what should we do with this information? While it would help us catch people out through false-claims and/or suspicious names, it'd also give scum Carte Blanche to target people for maximum havoc. It'd also put Henry in a really bad position assuming that he is French. Secondly, what should be done about those who won't nameclaim? Lynch them for no reason but the fact that they don't name-claim?

    Either way, a decision needs to be made fast if we're gonna get a mass-nameclaim going, and create a proper plan based on this information today before the time runs out. And while I worry that this may be giving the scum too much information, a mass name-claim really needs to be done early if we're gonna try to catch the scum out on false-claims.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    I'm kind of inclined to let Chirbo slide today, though I agree he should be killed/lynched going forward, as I don't think he shares the town win condition whatever the affiliation, and his death if it is town will shed light on just how relevant Protestant/Catholic might be.

    But we have his confirmed power, flavour text points to him as Aloysius, and while yes, he could be scum, I think he would be a minor scum without a night kill power until more senior scum are eliminated. There is not too much more information to be gained from his death through a lynch today.

    If we're not approaching a Day timeout, I would like to see more pressure on Kiradawea, though whether I have enough support on that is up in the air. But my reasons are as follows

    1) According to her I'm supposedly staging conversations.

    2) Pushing the cult theory, when the game is already said to involve laws of succession and alliances, and (what I think is reasonable assumption as shown above) three factions. Cult on top of these would be an unnecessary complication that I just don't see in play.

    3) Pushing that I'm supposedly a cult member, when governor in anything but town would be overpowered. She says inclined to believe that Tekora could be playing up to a role and perhaps not scum/cult, but somehow jumps to me being converted and having staged conversation Tekora in following paragraphs. This logic just doesn't follow if you begin with Tekora is not scum/cult.

    4) Pushing more exotic roles, jesters, rolestoppers with no real evidence for them. Multiple factions + exotic roles = unbalanced game.

    5) Suggesting that how I revealed my governor power somehow damaged town.

    6) Pushing Protestant vs Catholic as more important than eliminating English, then backpedaling on that following Silvanus' post above Catholic/Protestant divison things happening after Henry's death (similar to my own about protestant catholic becoming relevant after Francis/Mary alliance fails).

    7) Staying very quiet until called upon, and no votes that I can see with a quick re-scan that could lead to potential bandwagon accusation against her. The game has been on for a week-ish, and this just seems too cautious against giving anything away.


    One or two of these I could forgive sure, and yes she did mention catching a flight. While I'm sure Kiradawea does have more mafia experience than I do and so is inclined to think of more complicated setups, for me mafia win by obfuscation and making the town indecisive. Every post of hers has been non-committal and obfuscating.

    I said 90% convinced earlier, as yes, Kiradawea might have just been overthinking scenarios and going too far down the rabbit hole, but until there is a more compelling proof of innocence, I'm going to return the heat she tried to place on me. And yes, not 100% because I freely admit that her targeting me might have made me biased against her, and I'm inclined to believe my own version of the game layout, but points 5, 6 and 7 stand out the most to me, and have enough in them to make me convinced that whatever her own win condition is, it is not the same as mine..


  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    And just before I break for bedtime again, I'll say that I'm opposed to mass roleclaim because of the potential breakdown in alliances and win conditions changing.

    But if we are approaching a Day time-out and there's no movement on pressuring Kira, then I would go for lynching Chirbo for some clarity on Protestant/Catholic.

    (Until the morningtime!)
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    Ahem...Milady disrups monsiuer Ushaara's projection by her nation.
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    I also would rather not see a mass role-reveal at this time. We need to keep the king safe.



  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    This day started on the 14th, Sylandra said the day can last up to 7 days. We are only on 2 out of 7, we still have time to discuss things. No need to be hasty on the decisions.

    There are still some people that need to be a little bit more involved in day two. We have a lot of people going under the radar while we have been distracted by Chirbo, Tekora/me, Kira/Ushaara.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals
    So. I've had time to look through the Wiki much more thoroughly and sort things out. Now I have a question.

    This is going to be especially for @Silvanus and @Ushaara since they both seem knowledgeable, but anyone can answer.

    We've talked about Italians, Scots, French, and English, but I'm going to bring up Navarre. Who, if anyone, would be the most likely role to come from Navarre, or be related to it in some way?

  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    Well, historically, King Henry's father was captured in battle against the Hapsburgs, who ruled both the Holy Roman Empire and Spain. The Kingdom of Navarre is the area between Spain and France that has been contested for by both countries for awhile.

    King Henry's daughter, Margaret of Valois, marries King Henry III as King of Navarre, who inherits the Kingdom of France after House Valois dies out after the turmoil that this takes place in. He becomes the first Bourbon King of France, King Henry IV.

    He is a Huguenot, protestant, and was nearly killed a few times during the religious wars before becoming King of Navarre. To become King of France, he converted to Catholicism.

    I don't know the presence on the show, but he becomes more important in the years after Henry's death in the turmoil that follows. It is possible that they are both present, and that is a good point to bring up. 

    Margaret is all but guaranteed to be present. With Henry being a Huguenot, but later being a Catholic King of France himself, it could possibly be that the factions are not split along religious lines.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • It looks like both King Antoine (father of Henry IV mentioned by @Silvanus), and Louis Condé, one of Antoine's siblings, appear in the show, the latter with more presence than the former.

    It looks like Margaret does not appear in the show until Season 3, going by the wiki.

  • I'm just thrilled I got you guys not to vote for me.
    image
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    I'd still prefer to lynching you over voting no lynch at this point, so don't feel safe yet. It would be nice if you can expand on your loyalty to France but not being Catholic.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals
    Getting back to my questions would be good too. Anything to show that you're willing to be more involved at this point, really.
  • My religion does not sway my loyalty to my home. I am simply revolutionary thinker. 
    image
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Luce said:
    Ahem...Milady disrups monsiuer Ushaara's projection by her nation.
    Umm, parlez-vous anglais? No clue what you mean by this.

    And I'm still on Season 1, so no Navarre exposure yet in the show, but a quick scan of the wiki and I think Allyrianne has the right of it, with Louis Condé being the likeliest potential role if there is a Navarre character floating about.

    Colour me 100% impressed with Silvanus' historical knowledge.

  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    The madame is from a nation you have projected as full, monsieur. Specifically Scotland
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Ah, I see. Well as mentioned, that layout was best guess from bingeing on episodes of the show. Mary did have a fourth lady-in-waiting but she was a minor character, so didn't rate her as important enough to include, and later episodes do include Mary's mother, Mary de Guise, and Mary's protestant brother who tries to get Mary to go back to Scotland.

    But 5 French and 5 Scottish would give both nations an even starting point, which is indeed a fairer starting point if we look into the alliance failing scenarios. Can shift one of the ?'s from outsiders up, and then my guess for the two outsider roles are Survivor + Lunatic, and I can dump the servant lad theory.

    (Of course it could alternatively realise one of the curveball scenarios, where one of Mary's ladies-in-waiting is an English agent, and another Scot affinity character is needed to replace her, but either way it was my rough guess of the game layout and to show that there is enough faction dynamism in play to exclude a cult theory. Deaths will reveal how accurate that guess turns out to be.)
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    There could potentially be 5 english too right? That'd make it 5/5/5/1 outsider? I'm still on the first season as well and there has really only been one english person on the show (the guy who got framed). 

    Would there be anyone from the Vatican? The Vatican seems to play a big role in a 'approval' manner (legitmizing Bash, when mad king gets caught tied up by the bishop), so there may be a cardinal or bishop locked down here with us as well, who could potentially change things. Maybe that's just crazy talk.

    There hasn't really been a lot of talk the last couple of days, but I'm willing to put more pressure on Kiradawea

    Unvote

    Vote: Kiradawea

    lets get some more converation going.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    I guess it also stands to reason that because we're in France, we'd be favored to have more people, since we live here and all.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • Silvanus said:
    This day started on the 14th, Sylandra said the day can last up to 7 days. We are only on 2 out of 7, we still have time to discuss things. No need to be hasty on the decisions.

    There are still some people that need to be a little bit more involved in day two. We have a lot of people going under the radar while we have been distracted by Chirbo, Tekora/me, Kira/Ushaara.
    Those silent people flying under the radar is exactly why I felt that a decision like full name-claim would have to be made fast because of all the considerations that come with it. Not that it's entirely relevant considering that most people who have spoken up about it felt that we shouldn't. But seven days can go extremely quickly, especially when there are few people talking.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • With all this talk of "quiet people under the radar" I thought it would be helpful to get a look at just who those quiet people were.

    Number of posts since the new day started (I added this up by hand, yes I am probably off, hopefully by no more than a few posts either way, so it should still be somewhat useful. Note that this counts double posts separately, and says nothing about the quality of the posts):

    Tekora 33
    Silvanus 22
    Chirbo 21
    Ushaara 19
    Celina 13
    Vivet 13
    Lavinya 12
    Luce 12
    Synkarin 12
    Falmiis 11
    Kiradawea 11
    Ssaliss 10
    Allyrianne 8
    Shaddus 6
    Othero 5
    Yarith 3

    Median number of posts is 12, with some people way above and way below that, but there's actually fewer people "slipping under the radar" so to speak than I expected.

    I certainly wouldn't mind hearing more from @Shaddus, @Othero, or @Yarith (or me? I know I've had a couple points where I started writing a post but ended up not being able to keep up with how fast things were going)

    I was a bit surprised to see that Falmiis has about as many posts as Lavinya, Luce, Synkarin or Kiradawea. Looking back at them, he's posted a lot of one-liners agreeing with people, which is... interesting.


    Of everything so far, I think we have the most concrete reasons to lynch Chirbo. I agree with Ushaara that Aloysius is probably a minor mafia, assuming he is mafia, but that his death will at least give us some useful information about what sort of information we get, how connected nationality, religion and mafia may be, how powers and flavour are entertwined, while removing someone who frankly has not contributed all that much. Admittedly we'd get that sort of information from anyone we lynch, and I'd rather not cut our discussion today too short, so for the time being I will UNVOTE, VOTE YARITH. But if the day continues to stall I'll probably switch that back.

  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Sorry, I haven't had a whole lot of time online. What I'd like to suggest is that we don't stick to watching the shows to pick who we might or might not have, or who is good or bad (within reason). Sylandra is a bit more imaginative than to copy and paste stuff like that.

    Why are people pulling votes from Chirbo again?
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    I'm pulling because nothing's happening and I'm trying to urge conversation. I'm thinking Allyrianne is doing the same

    I'm willing to lynch Chirbo though if need be. I just don't like sitting around on our thumbs. If we're going to lynch Chirbo, then lets lynch him. Otherwise lets get something else going.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • More or less what Synkarin said.

    Dayphase is a useful tool for the town. I'm pretty okay with lynching Chirbo (and I think his power's unlikely to be one a jester would have, and I think a jester's an unlikely role to include thematically in game where who reigns is so clearly important) But we've had a lot of interesting conversation so far, and we have a fair bit of time left, so it seems worth it to me to continue the dayphase and see if anything else gets shaken out.

    And Yarith has participated the least, and has shown that he'll pop in if someone votes for him, so that's what I'm doing. 
  • Mhm. I have been really quiet. There are a lot of people who are pretty good at pointing the spotlight and directing the inquisition. What would you like to know? I'm not particularly threatened by the one vote weight against me and you could have just asked with that in mind. Though brief I summed my stance on the day earlier following the jump at Chirbo and his actions. 
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • It's nice of you to post after I put one vote weight against you, rather than after earlier calls for silent people flying under the radar to speak up.

    Presumably you still think voting for no one is better than voting for Chirbo, any chance you could expand on why?

    Do you have any thoughts on Kira's theory that there's a cult? Ushaara's outline of structure? The possibility of Medici and Navarre factions? (I'm still inclined to suspect the pagans, possibly including Diane de Poitiers, are the third faction, but that could depend heavily on how show vs history this thing is set) Do you think it's possible that Tekora was stopped by a rolestopper ability rather than the jailing she initially assumed? (actually, maybe don't answer that)


  • I've just never been a text-walling mafia player in general. Unless it's a theme I already know enough about I also don't tend to go out of my way to go read up and try to speculate as others have.

    My opinions on matters (and yes, most of this is stuff I've already said):
    -Chirbo should be lynched because he was acting way too defensively. I think assuming jester is a horrible play.
    -With the little information we have, I don't think we should be assuming cult either.
    -I can't comment on Ushaara's theory on the structure, as I have little idea about the theme

    There is more I could say, but it might reveal information that I don't think is necessary to reveal at this stage. All that said, we have so little information about to us so there's very little to back up any of these theories.
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    Current Vote Count Update:

    Silvanus - Tekora (1)

    Lavinya - Celina (1)

    Luce - Chirbo (1)

    Kiradawea  - Ushaara, Synkarin (2)

    Chirbo - Shaddus, Falmiis, Lavinya (3)

    Yarith - Allyrianne (1)

    None - Yarith (1)

    Tekora is currently unlynchable for the rest of the dayphase, by Ushaara's official decree.

    Luce is unable to vote this dayphase, due to a swollen tongue inflicted upon him by Chirbo. 

    In the kingdom of France, it takes the word of 8 nobles to lynch a member of the court.
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • I think I went a bit strong on assuming Chirbo is a Jester, just that they have been playing so poorly that it seems like they want to be lynched which made me assume that they had some sort of benefit coming if they got lynched. Could of also just been an insanity defense to make us back off of them.

    Also, the list of posts is helpful but considering the top 3 there it doesn't do too much. Tekora and silv

  • I derped that post real hard so let me rewrite it.

    I think I went a bit strong on assuming Chirbo is a Jester, just that they have been playing so poorly that it seems like they want to be lynched which made me assume that they had some sort of benefit coming if they got lynched. Could of also just been an insanity defense to make us back off of them.

    Also, the list of posts is helpful but considering the top 3 there it doesn't do too much. Tekora and Silvanus spent a lot of time sniping at each other and Chirbo's posted with almost no useful content.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    I will say I find it strange that Yarith has voted no lynch two days in a row, but that's just more of a peculiar note rather than an act of suspicious. On top of the low post count, I guess you can begin to make a case to lynch Yarith, but that seems like a stretch with Chirbo.

     I'm not sure who said it, but I generally agree with them that we should advance the day eventually based on the idea that a jester is most likely not present. If it is, it sucks that this game would only be so short, but it's also (in my opinion) a silly wildcard power.

    If we can't agree to lynch anyone, we can all at least agree to lynch Chirbo over no lynch. I'm not convinced that Chirbo is Mafia, I just think it is Chirbo being Chirbo, but I should at least vote for someone (he's still 4 votes away).

    Vote: Chirbo
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
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