I actually thought I'd have a higher post count, I've stopped myself from posting a few times thinking it would be too aggressive, ha.
Chirbo is definitely shady. And I think basically everyone agrees that he is at least not positive. We should at least put more pressure on him to reveal what his religious affiliation is to gain more information there.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
This TV show is so bad. I'm just throwing that out there.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
This TV show is so bad. I'm just throwing that out there.
So bad that it's good. And that I cackle every time I find out one of you is watching it. (Srsly just read the Lily Sparks recaps if you want an update and an idea of the plot.)
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I merely thought that Chirbo's play was a little bit too weird to be worrying, but I suppose that I really do have a very little understanding of things here. I just remain unconvinced on who is a good idea to vote for, I suppose I was just making a show of sitting on my vote. Considering I was the target of Tekora's proposed action and I was completely oblivious to anything during the night, I'm surely not the person who can answer the last question. It's possible there's a rolestopper out there, though that means we have a roleblocker, a jailer, a rolestopper, a govener and a voteblocker, as Ushaara has already pointed out. I don't think we have more than three factions. With that said, I suppose I will UNVOTE and VOTE CHIRBO against my gut feeling. While I'm here I suppose I'm going to say that I'm more or less Catholic, for what it's worth.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I'm catholic, period. No ifs or ands, so this situation seems most curious to me. All the more reason for Chirbo to elaborate on his theological alignment.
I'm pulling because nothing's happening and I'm trying to urge conversation. I'm thinking Allyrianne is doing the same
I'm willing to lynch Chirbo though if need be. I just don't like sitting around on our thumbs. If we're going to lynch Chirbo, then lets lynch him. Otherwise lets get something else going.
If you're trying to urge conversation then you'll have to do more than just say that you're urging conversation. I mean, you say that you're putting pressure on me but... pressure me into doing what exactly?
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
I'm always wary when it comes to Kiradawea in mafia games. She's a damned wily player, and very dangerous when she gets a scum role because she has so very few tells.
That said, I haven't seen much of a scum vibe from her this game.
Ignore the spooky ghost commenting, but holy shit you guys keep it up, I'm sick as fuck and you're all giving me the best fever daydream hallucinations. WTB more history from @Silvanus pls.
This TV show is so bad. I'm just throwing that out there.
Skip the first half of the season 1, and then ignore every scene that doesn't have Catherine in it. The show starts to border on the so ridiculous it's entertaining mark when Henry starts swording people in the face, throwing people out of windows and the teenybopper love triangle plot is put to bed.
If one more person votes for @Chirbo, I'll switch my vote back because it's pretty apparent we're not going to get much more done today. @Kiradawea seems uninterested in responding to @Ushaara's accusations and continues to obfuscate the matter. @Yarith is being wishywashy (I kind of think he's probably Sebastian with Pagan/Catholic ties due to this). Not a lot is happening.
...Did you read anything Ushaara said? It was a pretty clear 'ok, lets see how she responds to that'
What? You mean that list of nonsense? Did YOU read anything of it? I
haven't been responding to that because it should be clear to anyone
that it doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny. But if you need me to
spell out all the problems with it...
If we're not approaching a Day timeout, I would like to see more pressure on Kiradawea, though whether I have enough support on that is up in the air. But my reasons are as follows
1) According to her I'm supposedly staging conversations.
2) Pushing the cult theory, when the game is already said to involve laws of succession and alliances, and (what I think is reasonable assumption as shown above) three factions. Cult on top of these would be an unnecessary complication that I just don't see in play.
3) Pushing that I'm supposedly a cult member, when governor in anything but town would be overpowered. She says inclined to believe that Tekora could be playing up to a role and perhaps not scum/cult, but somehow jumps to me being converted and
having staged conversation Tekora in following paragraphs. This logic just doesn't follow if you begin with Tekora is not scum/cult.
4) Pushing more exotic roles, jesters, rolestoppers with no real evidence for them. Multiple factions + exotic roles = unbalanced game.
5) Suggesting that how I revealed my governor power somehow damaged town.
6) Pushing Protestant vs Catholic as more important than eliminating English, then backpedaling on that following Silvanus' post above Catholic/Protestant divison things happening after Henry's death (similar to my own about protestant catholic becoming relevant after Francis/Mary alliance fails).
7) Staying very quiet until called upon, and no votes that I can see with a quick re-scan that could lead to potential bandwagon accusation against her. The game has been on for a week-ish, and this just seems too cautious against giving anything away.
1. The argument here is essentially "Kira shares a scum tell she's noticed". You may disagree that the conversation is staged. But to claim that someone sharing a suspicion about someone is town is inherently scummy is, in all honesty, idiocy. Yes, scum can present arguments for the scumminess of others, but if you think I'm wrong you're going to have to argue not jut why I'm wrong, but also what advantage I would gain by knowingly presenting a wrong argument. Someone simply being wrong isn't a scum-tell. It's a sign of them making a mistake.
2. We had no deaths last night. Considering the size of the game, it's likely that there's a third party in the game. And while they may not activate until after Henry II's death, I still find it odd. Tekora was far too vocal during the first day for the mafia to want to send her out to act during the night. So assuming no double protections there's a 2-3/16 chance that the jailer, doctor, rolestopper targetted the proper victim for murder. He furthermore maintains that there are three factions based on nationality. Again, the intropost specified the faith in coloured text. It's such a huge "NOTICE ME" that it can't have been put there accidentally. Historically, faith was the huge deciding factor for loyalty and support during these times. Something that Silvanus excellent history lessons have supported.
3. Do I really need to explain how "Governor can't be converted cult-member because it would be OP" doesn't follow? The power of a cult is that it can bring any town-member over on their side. If anything, the fact that he tries to present this argument supports my assertation that Ushaara used his power on Tekora primarily to show off that he is the governor. The governor can't be mafia is also unsound logic. The governor can indeed be mafia. Any role can be, as long as it's considered during setup. We even had a lynch-immune mafia last game.
4. I made one mention of considering rolestopper to explain the multiple roleblocker scenario created by Tekora and Lavinya, and one mention of Chirbo hitting all my jesterpoints. I didn't even push for Chirbo being jester, but rather that Chirbo is being Chirbo.
5. Wrong. It was Tekora who said it was a terrible idea to reveal Governor because it'd tie up protector abilities, something I disagree with because governor is not a problem scum wants to go after in the early game. I said, and still maintain, that Ushaara revealed governor for the reason of revealing himself as governor.
6. Again, I did not. I pushed Ushaara into giving a reason why he thought there was three factions. I never once suggested that we should not be going after the English among us.
7. What do you know. Even more wrongness. Sure, I have a low number of posts, but there's content in them. Even during day one where I tried to get people to discuss King Henry and what the succession rules Sylandra may have cooked up might be. I haven't voted for anyone because I didn't want a no-lynch on day 1 (just imagine if we'd put any sort of pressure on Chirbo on day 1), I haven't voted for Chirbo because I don't want him dead yet, and I haven't voted for Ushaara because for cults, you need to go after the head.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
This TV show is so bad. I'm just throwing that out there.
Skip the first half of the season 1, and then ignore every scene that doesn't have Catherine in it. The show starts to border on the so ridiculous it's entertaining mark when Henry starts swording people in the face, throwing people out of windows and the teenybopper love triangle plot is put to bed.
100% would watch a Catherine de Medici spin-off.
(Sylandra, this is all your fault!)
I would add that you might want to skip episodes 9-15 ish of season 2. Really don't know why Reign thought they could handle that plot arc, when their prime work is always soapy camp.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
You ignoring his points meant one of two things 1) what you said, it was just so bad, it wasn't worth responding too or 2) He hit on something and you were trying to pretend it didn't exist so it went away.
I think we all agree that faith is a part of it, but it really falls down to 'catholic' which is likely mostly the french with a few others supporting Mary. 'Protestant', mostly english who are trying to put Elizabeth on the throne. There's a possibility of pagan (like Diane or Sebastian). So I'm pretty sure that it's mostly going to follow nationalities as well with a few exceptions (see Chirbo as protestant French)
"'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in." -Synkarin's Lament.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Going to have to disagree with Kiradawea here. If you're assertion is that Ushaara is staging a conversation, the burden of proof is on you as the accuser, not on Ushaara to demonstrate why you're wrong. Especially considering it's all but impossible to prove you aren't staging a conversation. Which I think is obvious enough for Kira to know, which makes me wonder why Kira is pursuing this argument at all.
"Sharing a suspicion of someone's scumminess," is a misleading statement because it implies you are not scum, which we don't know. Which you seem clued in to because the following sentence is "Yes scum can present arguments for the scuminess of others."
So that begs the question why you are so aggressively pursuing this argument? I wonder if you doubt your accusation of Ushaara now, or are responding to the skepticism voice in opposition to you by people who don't follow your reasoning, and you are using circular reasoning to cover yourself. I will say that's my gut reaction, you're trying to cover your bases so an out of left field accusation doesn't incriminate you. You've all but stated that it's not scummy to accuse someone, and it's on the accused to refute it rather than the accuser to prove it. You've also literally stated that, should you be wrong, it was simply a mistake. Which is not entirely correct in terms of "scum-tells."
If your argument is fundamentally irrational, and I think yours against Ushaara is, refuting it may only put himself in a compromising situation. This is why politicians avoid responding to absurd lines of questioning, they can't realistically win them.
I'm concerned about Kiradawea's aggression towards Ushaara.
So please expand on what is your cult theory premise? That Protestantism is the cult and its aim is to convert people to Protestantism? Through Chirbo and Yarith already revealing that they are not 100% Catholic, (and I would be amazed if either of them are the cult leader), would mean the cult started with at least three members, and then converted me (as yes, I still maintain that governor in anything but town to start with is bad balance). You talk about my assertions not standing up to any scrutiny?
I will say again that, for me, town wins when they have clarity, mafia win by obfuscation. I was still unsure on if you're just overthinking things, but that you are still trying to insist on it just reconfirms my suspicions.
Your whole argument against me is based on the idea that I staged a conversation just to reveal I was the governor. Once again, as governor, I have no night abilities and can only communicate with others during the Day phase. I used my power to extract information from the noisiest person in court. It has revealed information about myself and given town verifiable claims to check.
Why on earth if I was a converted cult member would I reveal my power so
early in the game? It is a ridiculously good one for mafia/cult to hold
onto for as long as they can.
As for why did I offer the deal to Tekora? As you say, people were backing off Tekora, and no one was pushing me which is your basis of why it seems staged, but that doesn't change the fact that Tekora was still the noisiest person in play at the time, and so the most logical for me to give myself a base from which I could try tease out the game layout, and to look for potential correlated behaviour, rather than having no information other than Night 2 deaths to go on.
And yes, you made some posts, but again always non-committal and obfuscating ones.
Hey now, I'm pretty Catholic, I just happen to be open minded about a few other things.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Oh "kind of catholic," makes perfect sense to me. Keep in mine that religion was as much about politics as it was about faith. People aligned with religions for personal gain (or to avoid getting killed) even when they weren't true believers.
If one more person votes for @Chirbo, I'll switch my vote back because it's pretty apparent we're not going to get much more done today. @Kiradawea seems uninterested in responding to @Ushaara's accusations and continues to obfuscate the matter. @Yarith is being wishywashy (I kind of think he's probably Sebastian with Pagan/Catholic ties due to this). Not a lot is happening.
I was going to hold off on it to let more discussion happen, but since we're closing in on the one-week dayphase limit (two days away IIRC), I might as well
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
She does wish me to mention that she has not spoken much due to monsieur Chirbo's prank, as she was uncertain as to how to do so.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
100% would watch a Catherine de Medici spin-off.
(Sylandra, this is all your fault!)
1. The argument here is essentially "Kira shares a scum tell she's noticed". You may disagree that the conversation is staged. But to claim that someone sharing a suspicion about someone is town is inherently scummy is, in all honesty, idiocy. Yes, scum can present arguments for the scumminess of others, but if you think I'm wrong you're going to have to argue not jut why I'm wrong, but also what advantage I would gain by knowingly presenting a wrong argument. Someone simply being wrong isn't a scum-tell. It's a sign of them making a mistake.
2. We had no deaths last night. Considering the size of the game, it's likely that there's a third party in the game. And while they may not activate until after Henry II's death, I still find it odd. Tekora was far too vocal during the first day for the mafia to want to send her out to act during the night. So assuming no double protections there's a 2-3/16 chance that the jailer, doctor, rolestopper targetted the proper victim for murder. He furthermore maintains that there are three factions based on nationality. Again, the intropost specified the faith in coloured text. It's such a huge "NOTICE ME" that it can't have been put there accidentally. Historically, faith was the huge deciding factor for loyalty and support during these times. Something that Silvanus excellent history lessons have supported.
3. Do I really need to explain how "Governor can't be converted cult-member because it would be OP" doesn't follow? The power of a cult is that it can bring any town-member over on their side. If anything, the fact that he tries to present this argument supports my assertation that Ushaara used his power on Tekora primarily to show off that he is the governor. The governor can't be mafia is also unsound logic. The governor can indeed be mafia. Any role can be, as long as it's considered during setup. We even had a lynch-immune mafia last game.
4. I made one mention of considering rolestopper to explain the multiple roleblocker scenario created by Tekora and Lavinya, and one mention of Chirbo hitting all my jesterpoints. I didn't even push for Chirbo being jester, but rather that Chirbo is being Chirbo.
5. Wrong. It was Tekora who said it was a terrible idea to reveal Governor because it'd tie up protector abilities, something I disagree with because governor is not a problem scum wants to go after in the early game. I said, and still maintain, that Ushaara revealed governor for the reason of revealing himself as governor.
6. Again, I did not. I pushed Ushaara into giving a reason why he thought there was three factions. I never once suggested that we should not be going after the English among us.
7. What do you know. Even more wrongness. Sure, I have a low number of posts, but there's content in them. Even during day one where I tried to get people to discuss King Henry and what the succession rules Sylandra may have cooked up might be. I haven't voted for anyone because I didn't want a no-lynch on day 1 (just imagine if we'd put any sort of pressure on Chirbo on day 1), I haven't voted for Chirbo because I don't want him dead yet, and I haven't voted for Ushaara because for cults, you need to go after the head.
I will say again that, for me, town wins when they have clarity, mafia win by obfuscation. I was still unsure on if you're just overthinking things, but that you are still trying to insist on it just reconfirms my suspicions.
Your whole argument against me is based on the idea that I staged a conversation just to reveal I was the governor. Once again, as governor, I have no night abilities and can only communicate with others during the Day phase. I used my power to extract information from the noisiest person in court. It has revealed information about myself and given town verifiable claims to check.
Why on earth if I was a converted cult member would I reveal my power so early in the game? It is a ridiculously good one for mafia/cult to hold onto for as long as they can.
As for why did I offer the deal to Tekora? As you say, people were backing off Tekora, and no one was pushing me which is your basis of why it seems staged, but that doesn't change the fact that Tekora was still the noisiest person in play at the time, and so the most logical for me to give myself a base from which I could try tease out the game layout, and to look for potential correlated behaviour, rather than having no information other than Night 2 deaths to go on.
And yes, you made some posts, but again always non-committal and obfuscating ones.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
I was going to hold off on it to let more discussion happen, but since we're closing in on the one-week dayphase limit (two days away IIRC), I might as well
Vote: Chirbo
Heretics deserve to die.