Reign - The Mafia Game Thread - English Mafia Win!

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  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Hrmwrm. I still don't know why I'd be targeted for a night-action over you/Celina, or even Silvanus as jailer. If we assume that Ssaliss and Allyrianne are the last English in play, and have a kill and a roleblock available, surely they'd roleblock the roleblocker/jailer?

    Though I guess Ssaliss could be the roleblocker, tried block Silvanus and Allyrianne tried kill me, missing only because I was away praying... :?

    In any case, won't end the day until Lavinya and Silvanus chime in.
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    I have no idea how the hell it's not game over yet. I thought we were all goners.

    I need to think and process and rehash. Silvanus and I discussed jailing Celina, mostly because it would likely mean only 1 death at least. (Sorry Celina, your aim hasn't been the best!) Also because we weren't convinced on who else is scum.

    Ssaliss' role makes sense. But then, Synkarin made a lot of sense too.

    Has anyone else noticed the roses? I feel so blind because other than the ability to chat with Silvanus and see who he targets, I haven't seen or heard or noticed a single thing during the night. I have no additional powers due to any deaths. I'm so confused right now. 

    I'm tentatively willing to lynch Ssaliss but I won't hammer it home yet, I think we can afford to spend a little more time considering (and I'd like to go over the previous posts more fully), and I want to hear Silvanus' thoughts.



  • The only thing I can think of with roses/flowers (aside from the tudor roses that Ushaara mentioned and if it's those I have no idea) is that in the show Catherine suspects Princess Claude of having murdered her younger siblings because of the flowers found with them. Although it turns out not to have been Princess Claude, but Diane de Poitiers. But it was the nursemaid who put the flowers? I think?

    No idea if that's at all relevant, but it was the only thing I could think of.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    We definitely should not advance the day, and instead come forward with what powers everyone used during the nights and if anyone saw anything.

    I just know that I got blocked night 2 and night 4.

    We have time to discuss this and review, no need to hurry regardless of what someone might say.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    Sylandra said:
    Current Vote Count Update:

    Ssaliss - Tekora, Celina, Allyrianne (3)

    Tekora - Ssaliss (1)

    In the kingdom of France, it takes the word of 4 nobles to lynch a member of the court.
    Here is the current vote count. 

    Celina, Ushaara, Lavinya and myself are town and in all setups of the game you can think of. Celina because she is my wife. Ushaara because he is my heir. Lavinya because she is my lover.

    In a game of 16, with 1-2 mafia dead, we still have a possible 2 or 3 scum left.

    If Ssaliss, Allyrianne and Tekora are the only ones with roles that either may not be town or in the game design, there is a possibility that all three are scum. 

    In this game setup if all 3 are scum, we have:

    1 - Psycho in Othero
    4 - Scum in Ssaliss, Ally, Tek and Synk
    11 - Town

    vs

    1 - Othero
    3 - Scum Synkarin + (Ssal, Ally, Tek)
    12 - Town

    After seeing some of the roles and powers given out, I am more inclined to believe that the first scenario design is more likely than the second scenario.

    Food for thought, I don't think Ushaara, Celina, Lavinya or myself should vote for anyone at all quite yet.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    Sylandra said:
    Current Vote Count Update:

    Synkarin - Ssaliss, Tekora (2)

    Tekora - Synkarin, Shaddus, Lavinya, Silvanus (4)

    In the kingdom of France, it takes the word of 7 nobles to lynch a member of the court.
    Here is the vote count right before Yarith confirmed Synkarin killed Vivet

    Notice how both Ssaliss and Tekora are voting for him? That means at least, guaranteed, one scum was voting for another. Quite possibly two.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • Considering the mysterious disappearance of Othero's body, it's not entirely farfetched to believe he was scum either, and that he was either a Catholic scum or had a power that made me investigate him as Catholic. That would bring the amount of scum left to 1-2.

    Another thought I've had recently regarding investigations is this: We started with two investigators (not counting Synkarin), one for political and one for religious affiliation. This could work in three ways:

    1) We are both able to investigate all the scum, giving us a much higher chance of detecting them (which seems unlikely)
    2) We are only able to detect half of them on our own, requiring both in order to catch them all
    3) One of us were a red herring, as it were, and has absolutely no value (which seems unlikely, but is possible).

    I find 1) and 3) to be the least likely of the three, which means there's a definite possibility of there being both French and Catholics among those wanting to put Elizabeth on the throne (meaning there would be Catholic Englishmen and Protestant French).

    Also, re: night actions, I'll just quickly rehash mine:

    Night 1: Allyrianne - Catholic
    Night 2: Kiradawea - Inconclusive
    Night 3: Celina - Catholic
    Night 4: Othero - Catholic
    Night 5: Tekora - Blocked (a young woman tried to seduce me)
    image
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    Ok so at the risk of being yelled at for OMGUSing or whatever or being an idiot and sitting on my butt, I'm rehashing some old ground.

    I still find it strange to have two roleblockers in the game, on the same team. Shaddus was confirmed, and I think it's safe to say he was the man-slut. It's also been confirmed that there is a young woman trying to seduce people in a distracting manner. Bear with me as I try to outline my train of thought. 

    I don't think we can deny there are two roleblockers. But Two on the side of the town seems highly unlikely. HOWEVER; I do think it likely that Elizabeth is the head mafia, and has an extra ability, such as roleblocking. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes that Tekora is Elizabeth.

    I should make a disclaimer here that I haven't watched the show, nor have I looked at any of the wikis. I thought it would confuse me, so I've purely been going off what has been revealed here (and a little research into my own character Diane). I don't know if it makes sense or not for the Pope to exist, but my role did state I have an ear to the Pope (specifically pope), so it's not a huge stretch to think he would exist. But not knowing the show, I'm not against the reasoning brought out about it.

    I don't know if Tekora saying she has been playing us all along as bad guy, as the bad guys would throw suspicion on her and thus reveal themselves to us is entirely believable. But it does explain why she was so adamantly convinced that Silvanus and I are scum - I've been suspicious of her from the start, thus must be evil? 

    I think Tekora is Elizabeth. I think she took a big gamble claiming her name but it paid off, and I think she was also clever in revealing the roleblocking power as it made some more inclined to believe her. But if it's true, that means she and Synkarin staged their whole opposition of each other. 

    It's not improbable. I just don't know anymore, I feel so blind, ugh!

    For now I'm still thinking Tekora is guilty. But outside of her, I really am not sure who to suspect with any great conviction.

    My night actions, for posterity:

    Night 1: Jailed for my own protection
    Night 2-5: Shacked up with the King



  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    OK I AM SO CONFUSED I CAN'T KEEP ANYTHING STRAIGHT ANYMORE.

    Shaddus was protector, not blocker.Ugh.



  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    Anyway. Long story short. Still don't trust Tekora. Even though stating it will likely earn me a barrage of hostility.

    I'm inclined to believe Alyrianne's reveal at face value.



  • In case anyone's curious, I compiled a list of votes. I'll put them in spoiler tags since it's pretty long:
    [spoiler]
    Day one:
    Tekora: Vote: Luce
    Yarith: Vote: Nobody
    Tekora: Vote: Yarith
    Ushaara: Vote: Nobody
    Chirbo: Vote: Nobody
    Chirbo: Vote: Lavinya
    Synkarin: Vote: Nobody
    Othero: Vote: Nobody
    Shaddus: Vote: Nobody
    Synkarin: Vote: Tekora
    Luce: Vote: Nobody
    Tekora: Vote: Nobody
    Synkarin: Vote: Nobody
    Chirbo: Vote: Nobody

    Day two:
    Lavinya: Vote: Tekora
    Tekora: Vote: Silvanus
    Synkarin: Vote: Tekora
    Celina: Vote: Lavinya
    Falmiis: Vote: Yarith
    Synkarin: Unvote
    Ushaara: Protect Tekora
    Lavinya: Vote: None
    Luce: Vote: Chirbo
    Shaddus: Vote: Chirbo
    Chirbo: Vote: Luce
    Allyrianne: Vote: Chirbo
    Falmiis: Vote: Chirbo
    Othero: Vote: Chirbo
    Synkarin: Vote: Chirbo
    Ushaara: Vote: Kiradawea
    Lavinya: Vote: Chirbo
    Othero: Unvote
    Yarith: Vote: Nobody
    Synkarin: Vote: Kiradawea
    Silvanus: Vote: Chirbo
    Yarith: Vote: Chirbo
    Ssaliss: Vote: Chirbo
    Synkarin: Vote: Chirbo
    Ushaara: Vote: Chirbo

    Day three:
    Silvanus: Vote: Ushaara
    Vivet: Vote: Synkarin
    Lavinya: Vote: Synkarin
    Ssaliss: Vote: Synkarin
    Ssaliss: Unvote
    Celina: Vote: Synkarin
    Tekora: Vote: Synkarin
    Celina: Unvote
    Ushaara: Vote: Kiradawea
    Synkarin: Vote: Kiradawea
    Falmiis: Vote: Kiradawea
    Celina: Vote: Kiradawea
    Silvanus: Vote: Kiradawea
    Lavinya: Vote: Kiradawea
    Othero: vote: Kiradawea
    Ushaara: Unvote
    Shaddus: Vote: Kiradawea
    Ushaara: Vote: Kiradawea

    Day four:
    Ssaliss: Vote: Synkarin
    Tekora: Vote: Synkarin
    Synkarin: Vote: Tekora
    Shaddus: Vote: Tekora
    Lavinya: Vote: Tekora
    Silvanus: Vote: Tekora
    Yarith: Vote: Synkarin
    Lavinya: Unvote
    Silvanus: Vote: Synkarin
    Shaddus: Vote: Synkarin
    Falmiis: Vote: Synkarin
    Silvanus: Unvote
    Lavinya: Vote: Synkarin
    Celina: Vote: Synkarin

    Day five:
    Tekora: Vote: Silvanus
    Tekora: Vote: Othero
    Ushaara: Vote: Othero
    Ssaliss: Vote: Falmiis
    Celina: Vote: Falmiis
    Ushaara: Vote: Falmiis
    Celina: Unvote
    Celina: Vote: Falmiis
    Lavinya: Vote: Falmiis
    Othero: Vote: Falmiis

    Day six:
    Tekora: Vote: Ssaliss
    Celina: Vote: Ssaliss
    Allyrianne: Vote: Ssaliss
    Ssaliss: Vote: Tekora
    [/spoiler]
    (dear lord I hope the spoiler tags work this way...)

    One interesting thing I noticed was that Allyrianne has only voted twice so far; first Chirbo, then me. Not saying it means she's scum, just an oddity.
    image
  • No, no more hostility, I've already dropped the act, as I explained above. 

    I don't understand what else I can do to convince you people that I'm innocent. As such, this will be my last big post of the game to try and convince you people to open your eyes.

    Maybe reminding you all how much Synkarin aggro'd on me during Day 1 and 2 will do it?
    Synkarin said:
    Sounds like he did

    I don't like random lynches just 'because'

    But Tekora seems a little bloodthirsty, it's rather inelegant and drab honestly.

    Synkarin said:
    If you're at a point where a mislynch is going to give the mafia the majority, you're at a point where the odds of lynching a mafia member is at least even with the odds of lynching an innocent person. Nobody except for mafia wants to pass up the chance to lynch mafia, but when that chance is most likely not going to be mafia, it's a bit cloudy about whether it's the best course of action or not.

    Assuming 4 mafia of the 16, we have a 1 in 4 chance of lynching one of them. This means we have a 3 in 4 chance of lynching someone innocent. Just saying. Lynching an innocent person really only helps the mafia. Sure we'll find out some facts about said lynchee, but it's all dependent on what they say and no one is probably going to blow their role this early. This also assumes there aren't any third party types, in which case that percentage would go up. One 3rd party would increase it to just under 1:3 (5/16). Anyway, I'm with Celina, I don't really want to delve in this discussion. I'm just saying it's not that scummy to not want to lynch day 0. Plus being an even number means we'll still have the same number of possible mis-lynches before we lose tomorrow.

    The biggest thing to accomplish today is really get people talking. Any conclusions will be pure speculation but the more people talk, the easier it is to catch someone in a lie as time progresses.

    I don't think anyone that's been voted for is particularly guilty. Tekora's explained his inelegant reasons for wanting to lynch (it's a big vulgar really), but not mafia-ish. Who doesn't wish they drank all the wine like Othero. 

    Who hasn't introduced themselves yet or been chatty? It is a shame Othero drank all the wine this early, could loosen up some of the more high-strung ones.

    Synkarin said:
    Vote: None

    I think people are going to be hesitant talking about anything at this point, and we might as well not waste time.

    Tekora said:
    Putting it out there that this is a terrible idea and I'm not supporting the No Lynch when we still have 4+ days of discussion available to us.

    Synkarin said:
    I agree that we want information, lots of information, but I think getting to the point of forcing roleclaims and/or lynching this day is a bit absurd.

    Yes, we want to catch people in a lie, but given the aggressiveness, you've really just championed people remaining quiet and not giving anything away. 

    It's entirely too much for my palate

    Unvote

    Vote:Tekora
    Synkarin said:
    Unvote

    Vote: None

    I'm willing to let things lie for now

    Synkarin said:
    One more, lets end this day

    Day 2
    Lavinya said:
    You were jailed and there was no kill in the night....are you trying to make yourself look guilty? There's obviously more than one reason why nothing noticable occurred but that's usually the simplest and thus most likely.

    VOTE TEKORA


    Because it is entirely plausible that being obvious is part of a reverse psychology strategy - "If she really was mafia, she would be more subtle, I think she's just zealous townie". But what if that's what she was counting on? I'm going to confuse myself if I go too deep with this but yeah. I'm not getting an innocent vibe right now.

    Synkarin said:
    How do you know you were jailed? Did you try to do something and were unable to? I feel like if you were attacked and protected by said jailing that'd be noticeable. 

    Also, You've been really wishywashy in general, as Silvanus already pointed out. Said you wouldn't vote for no lynch day 0, voted for no lynch day 0. Still waiting to see the heat on Silvanus you promised.

    Lavinya's reasoning isn't too farfetched. Reverse psychology at it's finest, if it's true.

    Synkarin said:
    Vote: Tekora

    I'm definitely on board with this

    Tekora said:
    Even after I answered your question as to how I know I was jailed AND Sylandra substantiated my answer?  And with only Lavinia's shaky guess that she couldn't go into more detail about without confusing herself? Wow, you must really want me gone.

    How about this, Synkarin? Let's not waste the day's lynch on me and ruin the nice early lead that the town has built. Have the jailer jail me again tonight, that way I can't take any actions 'against' anyone. Or have an investigator target me. Day 3 is a decent enough lead for the investigator to out themselves and start delivering investigation results, as long as the Doctor is still undercover and able to protect them. 

    Synkarin said:
    Your answers didn't really relay much. 

    So you got a message, you didn't say that you tried to act which is another thing I asked. 

    Also, the flipflopping, especially now since you were so intent on not letting Day 0 go without a lynch, your exaggerations of possible scenarios. Lots of things not adding up here. Lots of wifflewaffling.



    Tekora said:
    Luce said:
    Then the trouble as I see it with your proposed scenario of 'lynch someone else and jail me again' is that if we do so, and you are innocent, then the usurpers know that you are innocent, and the logical course of action for that night is to attack no one, but gather information if they can on someone else, or use some other subtle skill in their repertoire of which there is no trace the next day. We logically assume that since another night passed with no death, you are the most likely culprit for mafia. We therefore execute you, and have lost a town member with no further information revealed save for that you were town, and anyone pushing for your execution today now also looks suspect. If you are instead a traitor, then either the same tactic is employed and the same underlying logic applied to imply you were instead town, or the other members have someone else make an attack, and the next morning you are able to attest that since someone died you cannot possibly be considered disloyal.

    In other words, belaying your execution by one day gets us no substantial information unless there is some other way of corroborating your claims. I think the correct course here is to decide today whether you are to be trusted or executed, or barring that to use the time of both our doctor and investigators to see what can be turned up overnight. Free the jailor or escort to act on another party, and perhaps allow a lookout or similar role to find the doctor and investigator.

    Why would you want to find the Doctor? You never want to find the Doctor, you want them to stay anonymous.

    FoS Luce

    Synkarin said:
    He points out the flaw in your plan (which I was about to do) and you turn it around on him?

    Just digging yourself a grave.

    Synkarin said:
    No, Luce said that your strategy to just be jailed again is flawed on several fronts and doesn't actually prove your innocence either way.

    Flaw 1) if you are scum, you get a different scum to commit murder - proclaim innocence
    Flaw 2) if you are innocent, Scum doesn't kill anyone, you look bad and get lynched.

    Either way, we learned nothing and tied up the jailor/investigator etc on something that isn't actually helpful or useful.

    Flaw 1 is the more likely of the two scenarios. You just get your buddy to do murder in your place.

    Tekora said:
    I never said jailing me would prove I'm innocent, you're putting words in my mouth. My goal is to get us to Day 3 with no dead townies. As for you and Luce stating that my goal is to tie up town resources, pray tell, do YOU have a better idea on who you would rather see jailed tonight?

    Tekora said:
    Also, thank you Celina for bringing some sense back into the discussion.

    Right now you have Lavinya, Luce and Synkarin with their votes on me, in that order. Furthermore, Synkarin has been pushing for a lynch on me ever since yesterday when I started speaking up and trying to work out some hypotheses on the possible scum layout. So take that for what it's worth.

    At this point, Lavinya and Silvanus hop on and take the wheel of the 'Lynch Tekora' bandwagon before I'm forced to roleclaim and Ushaara protects me.

    Speaking of which, I would highly appreciate another lynch proofing if they try and do it again, Ushaara.

    Quite simply, it's boiled down to this. Silvanus and Lavinya have shown so much willingness to believe and work closely with Synkarin, which is why I'm STILL not fully convinced that they're innocent. But I'm forced to believe they are who they say they are because no one has counter-claimed against them being King Henry and Diane, respectively. 


    That leaves, to me, two people who we don't know who they are and can't determine anything from their actions during the game.

    Allyrianne, who is claiming to be Lady Lola, hasn't provided a full claim of powers and alignment, and has barely contributed anything all game.

    and Ssaliss, who similarly has been silent in the game up until yesterday, has made a claim of Pope Pius IV, who is not an on-screen character in Reign, and who I roleblocked last night, resulting in no deaths during the night.

    This is why my vote is staying where it is.
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    Ssaliss being blocked doesn't necessarily mean he's scum, which is what worries me. Yes, he was blocked. But Celina was also jailed. So the scum could conceivably be Ssaliss, Celina or someone else who tried to kill Celina.

    The uncertainty is killing me. I'm second guessing myself a lot.



  • At this point, I have to say I firmly believe that Lavinya, Silvanus and Ushaara are all town. It would've been far too easy for either of them to just go with the flow and lynch me if they were scum. Sorry for doubting you earlier, Ushaara.

    Between Celina, Tekora and Allyrianne, I'm starting to lean more towards Allyrianne than Tekora, for A) being quiet, and B) having a completely unconfirmable role. I'm still suspicious of Tekora, needless to say, but for now, at least, I'll

    Vote: Allyrianne

    This, of course, begs the question of how I investigated her as Catholic rather than Protestant. After some Wiki-reading, I came upon this:

    "Elizabeth's personal religious convictions have been much debated by scholars. She was a Protestant, but kept Catholic symbols (such as the crucifix), and downplayed the role of sermons in defiance of a key Protestant belief"

    Also this:

    "Mary, a devout Catholic, was determined to crush the Protestant faith in which Elizabeth had been educated, and she ordered that everyone attend Catholic Mass; Elizabeth had to outwardly conform"

    I'm not sure if it's relevant or not, but I did investigate her before Mary died. This might mean that her outward conformance and keeping of Catholic symbols might make me investigate her as Catholic, while she is, in actuality, Protestant.

    This is, of course, pure theory from my point. I'm also not sure how this plays out in the show; this is coming from actual history.
    image
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Tekora said:
    The 'change in the air' was what blocked me on Night 3 when I tried to target Synkarin.
    This is the hardest thing for me to get over, Tekora. I read the 'change in the air' that was at the top of Sylandra's night action results as simply to mean 'Mary is dead, new win conditions in play, some new powers activated.' Yarith also claimed to have sensed that something felt amiss in the air on the same night, but it didn't block him. But this is the closest, and really only reference to what could maybe be
    Silvanus said:
    It does some kind of weird for Celina to claim a Vigilante while also having a night immunity while Kiradawea was pretty close to that role too, although limited.

    This is my first sixteen player mafia, is something like that normal to have two towns with that power?

    If Celina really does have a nightkill, we should probably lynch Tekora, who has lied about their roleclaim if Synkarin is to be believed. If not, we off Synkarin.

    I will note for flavor texts so far, Synkarin got visited on night 2 by a pretty girl flirting and blocking him, Tekora claims it was her.
    Celina got visited by a man slut on night 3 flirting with him. Tekora also claimed to be roleblocked on night 3.

    3 roleblockers? Also, Shaddus apparently got manhandled, so 4 rolestoppers? Someone is lying.

    Vote: Tekora
    And can someone just clear up what happened here for me on Night 3? When Celina, Tekora and Shaddus all claimed to be blocked on the night Vivet died? Silvanus said he jailed Shaddus, was it? Tekora was blocked by the 'change in the air,' Celina was unsure as to whether it was a block/investigation?

    Do you only see blocks if you take a night action?

    Oh, and now seeing that Ssaliss claims that he investigated Celina on Night 3, so the man-slut could have been the Pope? Hahaha. But if this is the case, how come no one else has seen themselves being investigated by Ssaliss? @Allyrianne?

    I will say that with Tekora blocking Ssaliss, and Silvanus jailing Celina, my focus today was on Allyrianne/Lavinya for the potential night-actioner on me.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Oh, I derped a bit after the first quote above. Should read "But this is the closest, and really only reference to what could maybe be the same scent in the air I noticed last night."
  • Yeah; it'd be really helpful if people started posting what they did which nights. It will probably help us clear up quite a few things.
    image
  • I was a bit rushed since it seemed important to claim as soon as I had a moment. I'm also not sure what you're looking for (aside from someone else to throw suspicion on) 

    As Lady Lola, I started out Scottish, although since Mary's death I now consider myself loyal to King Henry II. I'm also pregnant with Francis's bastard, although he had no idea (I guess he does now?). Mary did know, which caused some tensions between us that I was attempting to move past by bringing her whatever news I could. (I could send her one message a night. Mostly I rambled at her about my theories based on the previous day which included what I pieced together about Silvanus, general suspicions of Synkarin and the whole Ushaara/Kiradawea argument)  My pregnancy with a royal bastard gives me a one-time protection against kills (night only, from what I understand).

    While I agree there are multiple possible reasons for the lack of kills last night, reviewing the list of claims, I have to say that Ssaliss's is the one that doesn't fit. There is no other example of a historical character that is not physically present on the show. As Ushaara's(I think it was him?) mentioned, we don't know what would have happened if Vivet had investigated Chirbo. Her role power doesn't explicitly state that she only discovers nationality, just that she learns something from their belongings. Also, once his flavour text/role was revealed, those of us without powers pretty quickly figured out he was protestant, so the power may have been primarily alluding to that. We also know that Synkarin did have an investigative role, and was mafia, so claiming to be religious investigator would seem "safe."

    Unless Diane de Poitier is going to go off the deep end with her show-only son dead, I think Vote: Ssaliss is the wisest option.
    I'm not entirely sure what would qualify as a full role/power claim, @Tekora, assuming that this did not. One of the reasons that I, like Falmiis, have not contributed much or revealed all my night actions is because I don't have any (beyond my one message to Vivet. Incidentally I did not know she was the investigator until she revealed it). I can't give you a list of what I didn't do. I can go back through and get a summary of what I said if you want? 

    I'd like to point out that Ssaliss's list is missing the part on day two where I unvoted and then voted for Yarith in an attempt to get him to respond and contribute. I don't think that consistently pushing for longer days with more discussion rather than assisting in bandwagon voting is unreasonable of me. I also think my indecision between offing highly probable mafia investigator and semi probable serial killer is particularly unreasonable either. While I did believe that Synkarin was almost definitely scum, Kiradawea risked being the more immediate danger. With 20/20 hindsight and the knowledge  that any of the mafia could kill, clearly Synkarin was the correct choice, but at the time confusion and patience weren't unreasonable. I've tried to be thoughtful in my posts, and some people (yourself included) seem to have found some of my summaries useful.

    Luce made it pretty clear that active Scottish participants would be killed. I do regret that I didn't come forward when Vivet did, but at the time it seemed better to keep the scum in doubt as to how many Scotts there were, and likely they would have gone for the investigator anyway.

    I've been thinking about the structure of the game a bit. I am pretty sure that Lavinya, Silvanus, Celina, Ushaara are all who they say they are, and I also mostly believe Tekora for a variety of reasons. To me, this means that Ssaliss pretty much has to be the last scum. Assuming Othero was scum, that puts us at 3 out of 16 scum, which seems a bit low.

    But, it's possible that it could have gone differently. I don't think we can discount that France and Scott started out as separate, but allied, factions. France's faction absorbed the Scottish faction because Mary died childless while married to Francis. What would have happened if Francis had died first? I think there's a possibility that the game would have borrowed from a show plotline where King Henry II considers trying to marry Mary himself, which might have split the French court into the de Medici faction, with Catherine and Claude, versus the Henry II faction, potentially with the de Poitiers, and the rest taking one side or another. Meanwhile the Scottish might have become primarily survivors.

    I'd also like to reiterate my thoughts earlier, about how Kiradawea, had she outlived Mary, would not have been included in the Scottish turning French, not having been Scottish to begin with. In that case, she might well have turned the serial killer some believed her to be, since the French faction already had a vigilante.

    With the potential for different scenarios happening, and new scum being created, I could believe that the English only started out with three mafia. Particularly since they had some powerful roles (investigator and roleblocker, at least) at their disposal. Looking at some of the show information about Louis and Antoine, they do try to plot with Elizabeth, so Othero could well have been mafia.

    Since I really don't see how anyone else could possibly be scum, my vote is staying on Ssaliss. There's the following additional reasons why I think he is the last mafia:

    He's trying to claim that both Othero and I had religious investigation immunity. I could see maybe one mafia turning up Catholic, but two out of three? Really?

    He claims he investigated Celina night 3. This is the night immediately after Celina was outed as Queen Catherine by Synkarin, something nobody counterclaimed, and the whole interaction was fairly persuasive. Why would he have investigated her on night 3, when he could have investigated Synkarin to prove or disprove Synkarin's claim of being Catholic English?
  • You do realise that I was pretty much out of it during all of day three, right? I even made a post saying I got sick. Quite frankly, I didn't register that Celina was Queen Catherine; I investigated her solely based on the fact that she claimed she was the cause of the second scream. I chose not to investigate Synkarin, because quite frankly, he was outed as scum already, and I figured the odds of him being lynched the following day were high enough even without my investigation, so it was better placed elsewhere.
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  • Also, re: missing your vote, I'm sorry about that. It certainly wasn't intentional.
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  • oh, and @Ushaara I have seen no man-sluts at night.
  • Since no one has admitted to targetting Ushaara, I'm currently working under the assumption that it was a Bad Thing(tm) that was supposed to hit him. It could be that he was the target of the nightkill, and it failed because of his prayers. If it wasn't a nightkill, then at least it doesn't seem to be anything friendly since no one owns up to it. So let's see where we are with that:

    It can't have been me, since I was blocked by Tekora.
    It can't have been Tekora, since he was blocking me.
    It can't have been Silvanus, since he jailed Celina.
    It can't have been Celina, since she was jailed.
    It can't have been Ushaara, since... well, for obvious reasons.

    This leaves two people: Lavinya and Allyrianne. Lavinya has been confirmed by Silvanus, so I don't think she did it. Allyrianne has a role that is completely unverifiable (the only one who would be able to verify it is dead), and it would've been very easy to fakeclaim it, since she was (I believe) the last to make a claim, making it very easy to avoid double-claiming.
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  • So then we will lynch you, I will block her tonight and we lynch her tomorrow.

    Onward to victory?
  • Or, just a thought... lynch her instead and block me again tonight? You know it can't have been me releasing that rose scent.
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  • The only reason I don't agree with doing that is because if you two are in this together and you're pushing for us to lynch her instead of you, it's because you want to be alive for some one more night for reason relating to your role powers.
  • *it's because you want to be alive for one more night for some reason relating to your role powers.

    Typo fixed.
  • Or it could be because I don't really want to be lynched. Anyway, let's assume there is one scum remaining: That one would, by simple process of elimination, have to be either Lavinya or Allyrianne, no? Otherwise, where did Ushaara's rose-scent come from? No one has admitted to visiting him, so it's obvious it's by someone who wants to remain hidden. Between the two, it should be obvious who the most likely culprit is. This doesn't really change all that much even if we assume there are two scum around; she's still the most likely culprit today, no matter who the second scum would be. And, if we assume for a short second that I am that second scum, then my potential night action would be null and void as long as I'm blocked (or even jailed) tonight. That's kindof the point of roleblockers.
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  • Nice WIFOM.

    Someone please lynch him.
  • That wasn't much of a WIFOM; that was logic. You know I can't have been involved in the rose-scent, and yet you still want to lynch me. Are you really that certain that I'm not who I say I am? How then will you react when you realise that I am who I say I am?
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  • No, I think I've said enough for today. We still have 1-2 scum here and you're trying to get me to reveal my gameplan so your remaining partner can plan around it.
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