Outstanding Overhaul Issues

24

Comments

  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 592 Gifted
    Due to broken limbs being such a strong hinder, burns being on the same cure is a bad idea in solo as the meld alone does a LOT of burns.

    Most combat is in groups, so ice will already be heavily pressed by (in the future) two other classes. One of which is already having a problem with having offenses that roll too quickly, and the other having not converted to the new system but likely able to do similar (specific guilds could break 4 limbs at once).

    Making it use lucidity slush as an apply would allow it to work with telepathy and runes better without running into issues with physical specs. 

    5th cure could also solve the issue, as anything touching ice is now likely to break things.
  • ShedrinShedrin Member Posts: 905 Transcendent
    Stacking afflictions for many guilds will become easier with a bunch of the proposed changes. With focus being removed, mental affliction heavy classes will be twice as hard to cure. With a bunch of afflictions moving to ice or steam or whatever, those afflictions will be easier to stack. This should be monitored carefully. I think it's fine for affliction-based offense to get a bit of a buff, right now damage is king, but it could be easy to go too far.

    Healing:
    I think the skill should be revamped. Right now Healing is less being a healer, and more about being a tank, and it's imo, a very boring skillset. Some (crazy, unfeasible?) ideas:
     - Allow auras to be removed with disruption scroll and greater drain to upkeep many auras.
     - Add a balance to personal healing, so you can't remove all your afflictions every time you regain balance.
     - Add a generic "heal other" skill, that cures a random affliction and a bit of health, at a slightly larger balance cost, also able to be done from afar, the intent being an easier way to help in combat, not requiring a specific healing plugin.
     - 'Protection' skills, short lived defenses used on another player that give some specific bonus after being attacked or afflicted in a certain way. ex: Target cannot take more than 10% health from a single hit for the next 5s. Target heal 400 health when receiving an ice affliction for the next 5s, etc. If you've played Guild Wars 1, this idea is heavily inspired by the Protection Prayers of the Monk class.
     - Add a resurrect.

    Focus:
    I like the idea of having a cost to prioritize, in theory it means there's a decision to be made on prioritizing a specific affliction vs the downsides of focusing, and is something someone could abuse offensively. The cost might be too high, though, especially if affliction spam becomes prevalent.

    Aeon:
    Changing aeon in that way would likely make it easier to script around and play against, this is definitely a good thing. It'd also be a significant nerf. Assuming you have balance, if you have say anorexia + asthma + aeon, you can cure that all in 1s, as opposed to the 3s it takes currently. This would ruin many strategies of aeon guilds, and those guilds would need a revamp. This isn't a bad thing, I think the tradeoff of removing aeon as it currently exists is worth it (especially considering that with other changes they'll need to be looked at anyway).

    Timewarp:
    Right now timewarp is very binary. Either you're at massive timewarp, and thus able to be Timequaked, or you're not, and it barely matters. It's impossible to build it up over time against anyone with proper curing, so the only way to achieve massive timewarp is through Shatterplex. I have a few possible implementations I'm throwing around in my head. One of which is to move timewarp to steam, have it work in distinct levels, capped at 10. 10 timewarp would be required for Timequake. Shatterplex changed to explode all rubies around the target one at a time every second, dealing some damage and timewarp. If each ruby explosion does 2 timewarp levels, based on some quick math, then you can just barely reach 10 for a timequake if you do it right, and are unhindered (which will be much more possible with the change to aeon and how slow shatterplex will be now). OTOH, if each ruby explosion does 1 level of timewarp, then this could open up the possibility of addressing the all-or-nothingness of timewarp/shatterplex. For example, Oracle can be changed to now only deal timewarp, and hit every 5s (from 17s). It will do more timewarp the lower amount of timewarp on the target, letting there be more of a baseline of timewarp, making other timewarp requiring skills function more as intended.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Malarious said:
    Due to broken limbs being such a strong hinder, burns being on the same cure is a bad idea in solo as the meld alone does a LOT of burns.

    Most combat is in groups, so ice will already be heavily pressed by (in the future) two other classes. One of which is already having a problem with having offenses that roll too quickly, and the other having not converted to the new system but likely able to do similar (specific guilds could break 4 limbs at once).

    Making it use lucidity slush as an apply would allow it to work with telepathy and runes better without running into issues with physical specs. 

    5th cure could also solve the issue, as anything touching ice is now likely to break things.
    Broken limbs already shared a cure with burns. The overhaul changed this. This change fixes it. 

    The details regarding burns cured per application can be addressed. 

    I am not opposed to addressing the fire damage increase from burns either. 
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  • EldanienEldanien Member Posts: 369 Gifted
    It can all be tweaked.  If burn cure stacking with broken limbs proves to be an issue, we make the cure remove multiple burns per application.  Set the range to whatever winds up at the right level of balance (1-2, 2-3, 0-4, whatever).

  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent
    Shedrin said:
    Stacking afflictions for many guilds will become easier with a bunch of the proposed changes. With focus being removed, mental affliction heavy classes will be twice as hard to cure. With a bunch of afflictions moving to ice or steam or whatever, those afflictions will be easier to stack. This should be monitored carefully. I think it's fine for affliction-based offense to get a bit of a buff, right now damage is king, but it could be easy to go too far.

    Healing:
    I think the skill should be revamped. Right now Healing is less being a healer, and more about being a tank, and it's imo, a very boring skillset. Some (crazy, unfeasible?) ideas:
     - Allow auras to be removed with disruption scroll and greater drain to upkeep many auras.
     - Add a balance to personal healing, so you can't remove all your afflictions every time you regain balance.
     - Add a generic "heal other" skill, that cures a random affliction and a bit of health, at a slightly larger balance cost, also able to be done from afar, the intent being an easier way to help in combat, not requiring a specific healing plugin.
     - 'Protection' skills, short lived defenses used on another player that give some specific bonus after being attacked or afflicted in a certain way. ex: Target cannot take more than 10% health from a single hit for the next 5s. Target heal 400 health when receiving an ice affliction for the next 5s, etc. If you've played Guild Wars 1, this idea is heavily inspired by the Protection Prayers of the Monk class.
     - Add a resurrect.

    Focus:
    I like the idea of having a cost to prioritize, in theory it means there's a decision to be made on prioritizing a specific affliction vs the downsides of focusing, and is something someone could abuse offensively. The cost might be too high, though, especially if affliction spam becomes prevalent.

    Aeon:
    Changing aeon in that way would likely make it easier to script around and play against, this is definitely a good thing. It'd also be a significant nerf. Assuming you have balance, if you have say anorexia + asthma + aeon, you can cure that all in 1s, as opposed to the 3s it takes currently. This would ruin many strategies of aeon guilds, and those guilds would need a revamp. This isn't a bad thing, I think the tradeoff of removing aeon as it currently exists is worth it (especially considering that with other changes they'll need to be looked at anyway).

    Timewarp:
    Right now timewarp is very binary. Either you're at massive timewarp, and thus able to be Timequaked, or you're not, and it barely matters. It's impossible to build it up over time against anyone with proper curing, so the only way to achieve massive timewarp is through Shatterplex. I have a few possible implementations I'm throwing around in my head. One of which is to move timewarp to steam, have it work in distinct levels, capped at 10. 10 timewarp would be required for Timequake. Shatterplex changed to explode all rubies around the target one at a time every second, dealing some damage and timewarp. If each ruby explosion does 2 timewarp levels, based on some quick math, then you can just barely reach 10 for a timequake if you do it right, and are unhindered (which will be much more possible with the change to aeon and how slow shatterplex will be now). OTOH, if each ruby explosion does 1 level of timewarp, then this could open up the possibility of addressing the all-or-nothingness of timewarp/shatterplex. For example, Oracle can be changed to now only deal timewarp, and hit every 5s (from 17s). It will do more timewarp the lower amount of timewarp on the target, letting there be more of a baseline of timewarp, making other timewarp requiring skills function more as intended.
    I don't think I understand your suggestion for aeon at all, but timewarp stuff sounds like a shift in the right direction. Trying to think up reworks for shatterplex is a pain.
  • YehnYehn Member Posts: 282 Master
    Shedrin said:

    Healing:
    I think the skill should be revamped. Right now Healing is less being a healer, and more about being a tank, and it's imo, a very boring skillset. Some (crazy, unfeasible?) ideas:
     - Allow auras to be removed with disruption scroll and greater drain to upkeep many auras.
     - Add a balance to personal healing, so you can't remove all your afflictions every time you regain balance.
     - Add a generic "heal other" skill, that cures a random affliction and a bit of health, at a slightly larger balance cost, also able to be done from afar, the intent being an easier way to help in combat, not requiring a specific healing plugin.
     - 'Protection' skills, short lived defenses used on another player that give some specific bonus after being attacked or afflicted in a certain way. ex: Target cannot take more than 10% health from a single hit for the next 5s. Target heal 400 health when receiving an ice affliction for the next 5s, etc. If you've played Guild Wars 1, this idea is heavily inspired by the Protection Prayers of the Monk class.
     - Add a resurrect.


    want to say I agree... It was really crushing to learn the Healing skill isn't really about healing others or even very good at it...

    And, another thing to add about Healing... I'm not sure about other classes, but it really doesn't synergize well with researchers. The most intensively used resource is health, and then ego after that, but both pools are really small (healing a higher level player, especially a warrior type, even once can kill the healer/consume the 10 power safety buff). Mana, the largest resource, only gets used when healing yourself... making it even more of a 'use it on yourself' skill...

    Anyways I think the skill could use a review...
    beep
  • TwytchTwytch Member Posts: 485 Expert
    Researcher Healers are quite formidable, probably one of the toughest to kill in the game if used properly. Yes, that does mean Healing is more for the self than others, but you have to recognize the fact that fully support-healing classes can make things unbalanced (a fully-supported aeromancer, for example, would be practically immortal if Healing is changed to better heal others).
    See you in Sapience.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    The difference is that burns (a stacking, token based, woundsy mechanic) shared a balance with broken limbs, suite of binary afflictions. You could choose between curing one buildup that was sure to kill you or the one off hindering affliction that didn't self-stack that was a short term problem. Now you choose between one stacking aff, another stacking aff, AND the binary limb afflictions. It's not the same. 
  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 592 Gifted
    Celina said:
    Malarious said:
    Due to broken limbs being such a strong hinder, burns being on the same cure is a bad idea in solo as the meld alone does a LOT of burns.

    Most combat is in groups, so ice will already be heavily pressed by (in the future) two other classes. One of which is already having a problem with having offenses that roll too quickly, and the other having not converted to the new system but likely able to do similar (specific guilds could break 4 limbs at once).

    Making it use lucidity slush as an apply would allow it to work with telepathy and runes better without running into issues with physical specs. 

    5th cure could also solve the issue, as anything touching ice is now likely to break things.
    Broken limbs already shared a cure with burns. The overhaul changed this. This change fixes it. 

    The details regarding burns cured per application can be addressed. 

    I am not opposed to addressing the fire damage increase from burns either. 

    Previously meld tic was something like 5-6 applies for burn, now lets say we double the cure rate (since ice is twice as slow as salves).  Now, in 6s you cure the same burns, but a broken limb is very important (and prioritizes first because it impairs offense/moving) and is prioritized first. Previously this added 1s of time to cure, now it adds 2. If you expand this and say you trample after stun from meld, we have 8s worth of broken limbs alone on top of the 6s of ice. 

    This makes the whole thing seem far too fast. I would suggest making ice faster on breaks and burns at that point, but making breaks faster breaks things too.

    Ice is already having issues, we should settle on where wounds/breaks should be before we try to move anything else that could potentially make the wounds/affs problem worse.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    Any poison shrugging removal will have a (limited) impact against Harbingers as well, though nothing ground breaking.

    Haven't really read any of the other stuff that has been posted, but yay for changes.
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  • YehnYehn Member Posts: 282 Master
    Twytch said:
    Researcher Healers are quite formidable, probably one of the toughest to kill in the game if used properly. Yes, that does mean Healing is more for the self than others, but you have to recognize the fact that fully support-healing classes can make things unbalanced (a fully-supported aeromancer, for example, would be practically immortal if Healing is changed to better heal others).
    I've heard it's very strong 1v1... but... not all of us are playing to be front line fighters..^^;
    beep
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    Malarious said:
    Celina said:
    Malarious said:
    Due to broken limbs being such a strong hinder, burns being on the same cure is a bad idea in solo as the meld alone does a LOT of burns.

    Most combat is in groups, so ice will already be heavily pressed by (in the future) two other classes. One of which is already having a problem with having offenses that roll too quickly, and the other having not converted to the new system but likely able to do similar (specific guilds could break 4 limbs at once).

    Making it use lucidity slush as an apply would allow it to work with telepathy and runes better without running into issues with physical specs. 

    5th cure could also solve the issue, as anything touching ice is now likely to break things.
    Broken limbs already shared a cure with burns. The overhaul changed this. This change fixes it. 

    The details regarding burns cured per application can be addressed. 

    I am not opposed to addressing the fire damage increase from burns either. 

    Previously meld tic was something like 5-6 applies for burn, now lets say we double the cure rate (since ice is twice as slow as salves).  Now, in 6s you cure the same burns, but a broken limb is very important (and prioritizes first because it impairs offense/moving) and is prioritized first. Previously this added 1s of time to cure, now it adds 2. If you expand this and say you trample after stun from meld, we have 8s worth of broken limbs alone on top of the 6s of ice. 

    This makes the whole thing seem far too fast. I would suggest making ice faster on breaks and burns at that point, but making breaks faster breaks things too.

    Ice is already having issues, we should settle on where wounds/breaks should be before we try to move anything else that could potentially make the wounds/affs problem worse.
    RESTORE. These things exist for a reason. Alternatively, address trample. Using specific situations to nerf entire guild mechanics is not an appropriate response. 

    The purpose of the overhaul from the get go was to maintain the status quo for guilds as much as possible, and rework individual issues as necessary. This restores the status quo, full stop. If you are arguing that secondary changes to how guilds functioned due to the overhaul curing changes should remain as is, you are in the wrong conversation.


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  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    The mechanics for how much ice cures over old liniment can be adjusted as necessary to keep things in the status quo. 

    Burns in a group setting (where warriors get involved) aren't nearly the beast they are being portrayed as. I'm more concerned about shivering/frozen in aqua melds than I am about burns in group settings due to the nature of preserve and how preserve actually works (you can literally spam preserve and if it doesn't kill them, it costs less power and works towards a kill). Aquas need 3 levels - strip fire, shivering, frozen. Pyro's need two dozen or so levels of burns. Huge disparity there. Also throw in that you can specify curing wounds over afflictions - this means you can sit there and tolerate low levels of burns in group settings  while focusing on wound curing. You can't tolerate shivering/frozen at all.




    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 868 Creator
    FYI, we have plans to completely overhaul the healing skillset, but are holding off until after other concerns are addressed (more specifically, until all the tweaks to cures are done and proven). Also, there are other skillsets that we want to revamp before healing (like dreamweaving! and thanks to Enyalida who just sent us the proposal we asked for).

    Also, note that this isn't the end of tweaks in the aftermath of the overhaul. These comprise the (relatively) minor things we wanted to address first. Some things would have been too big of a project to incorporate right now because they would require looking at the design of an entire skill or class (like if we were to address sap/cleanse right now, we'd need to look at the entire druid design).

    Anyway, right now, we are looking at your feedback on those items that Ieptix listed that we will be focusing on next!
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  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,623 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    I'd rather not moving shivering and frozen over to ice either, for the reasons Synkarin already stated. Plus it's thematically strange to cure feeling cold with ice.

    Dust would be a better place to move those affs, but I'm getting concerned with the way we're oversaturating these few cure balances. Affliction classes haven't exactly been getting weaker over time. In the same light I'm also incredibly concerned about the removal of focus mind and focus body. We could potentially do okay without focus body (I deliberately disabled it in my system for a few months without a problem, before re-enabling it again), but focus mind is going to be a pain against certain high aff output classes.

    I don't think the new 'focus' mechanic will really help things all that much, doesn't present very attractive alternatives (slower balance? power?), and doesn't help simplify a darn thing. It actually makes things more complicated.

    As far as earwort and faeleaf go...I'm no bard, but it strikes me that steam balance would be much better for them. But IMO, like Malarious said, earache and afterimage kind of serve the purpose of slowing down raising the respective defences. I just don't see a compelling reason to change how faeleaf and earwort work.

    Deafness isn't a combat affliction, it is present only in bashing. 

    Blindness is a pretty high priority affliction because of how much it hinders, so we need to consider that when moving it to a cure balance.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    I'm starting to agree about focus mind, and think we should consider keeping it. I think it's actually becoming more important to have focus mind than it was pre overhaul due to affliction stacking now being much simpler. Also, because the way focus minds works in systems (basically just runs in the background), I don't see removing it as ultimately simplifying combat. It definitely still exists in Achaea.

    I don't think affliction stacking classes are particularly potent killers at this very second, in fact guilds like illuminati are great in their niche of hindering but struggle to actually use affliction stacks to actually kill people, I think removing focus mind could swing the pendulum too far in opposite direction. 
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  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Well, one thing that removing (or changing) focus would simplify would be that people would no longer have to learn a whole lot of Discipline in order to get it. Of course, this could also be changed by making focus mind an enchantment or similar in addition to it being an ability in Discipline.
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  • IeptixIeptix Member, Moderator, Gods Posts: 819 Divine
    You people post too much.

    I'll go through the thread tonight and give comments on what needs commenting.
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    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • WobouWobou Member Posts: 138 Adept
    I agree with ice being weird to cure frozen thematically. I actually am fine with removing focus mind because I thought part of simplifying combat was also the idea of making it easier for lowbies to get into combat. Up until now focus mind was one of those must-have skills that was fairly high up in a common skillset and certain classes could absolutely destroy you just based on the lack of it (illuminati, to an extent researchers). Although we'll definitely need to tweak affliction classes in relation to all of this.

    I disagree with Rivius about focus not being powerful. I think it overturns a fair amount of combat strategies on their head which may or may not be a good thing. I do agree that focusing an affliction is adding complexity which I thought was contrary to the goals of this endeavor.
  • TwytchTwytch Member Posts: 485 Expert
    Why not soothing steam for frozen?
    See you in Sapience.
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,623 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Wobou said:
    I actually am fine with removing focus mind because I thought part of simplifying combat was also the idea of making it easier for lowbies to get into combat. Up until now focus mind was one of those must-have skills that was fairly high up in a common skillset and certain classes could absolutely destroy you just based on the lack of it (illuminati, to an extent researchers). Although we'll definitely need to tweak affliction classes in relation to all of this.

    We could always move focus mind down in the skillset, to where focus body is now, if that's the intent. I think it's more realistic and less of a headache to do that than 'tweak' a bunch of classes.


    Wobou said:
    I disagree with Rivius about focus not being powerful. I think it overturns a fair amount of combat strategies on their head which may or may not be a good thing. I do agree that focusing an affliction is adding complexity which I thought was contrary to the goals of this endeavor.
    It'll be powerful, but it definitely won't help the saturation problem. At the cost of double the balance or power, it makes it even less attractive as an alternative.




    Also, what's happening with leglock and throatlock once we remove focus body?
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 401 Virtuoso
    Mostly unformed thought: putting frozen on ice with brokenlimbs may cause Interesting Things between lichdom coldaura/touch and crucify.
  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 592 Gifted
    Very long equilibrium losses are not the counter to a passive offense nor a 6s balance skill (trample).........

    Burns cannot stay on the old status quo because the cure itself is far too slow. If we doubled all wounding and halved the cure balance, maybe, but even that would require making burns cure considerably faster.

    We have to assume groups, and if you could passively kill someone with minimal effort, it becomes trivial with anyone else around.

    Ice stacks too quickly as is, this should wait until the ice curing and warrior/wounding issue is stable.
  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    I wouldn't mind seeing the possibility of the 2h warrior specs building 1 wound when using an affliction modifier. I think that'll keep them on par with the 1h specs for wound rate. Thoughts?
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  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 592 Gifted
    For SOME affs this might be a possibility. Imagine things like opencavity helping keep wounds longer or such. Some of the more potent effects definitely should not still build, like anything that does mutilated.

    As to the burns issue, can we get an overhaul pyro coding in to test this? I think the numbers say it would be terrible, but I keep being told we can tweak the numbers, so I am willing to see what we got and if it is viable or too hard to fix up.

    That said: What is the balance point on overhaul? Are we balancing ONLY to solo or should we assume there will be at least 1 other person as most combat is in groups? 
  • IeptixIeptix Member, Moderator, Gods Posts: 819 Divine
    Marcella said:
    Will allheale still cure blackout
    Hm. Probably.


    Shuyin said:
    MASSIVE ERECTION....of an Ieptix statue, of course.
    I approve of massive erections (of statues, of course).


    Wobou said:
    I too like the direction of all of this. Since you asked for feedback I wanted to mention telekinesis since its primary affliction and kill condition is not technically an overhaul affliction and many of its secondary afflictions are on old cures as well (clots, psychicfist still causes pre-overhaul affs like broken jaw, etc.)

    I'll look through TK, the physical affs here will have to be converted and I'll look into that when I get to monks (since that's when I'll be able to actually remove those affs completely). Clots look like they're cured by sparkleberry/healing, if I'm not misreading, so those should be fine as-is.


    Falmiis said:
    Are we going to look into the damage of certain classes that I've been told took a big hit with the new buff system?
    I don't recall anyone mentioning to me anything about damage getting hit terribly hard, but if there are abilities that are too comparatively weak now then I'll be receptive to envoy reports about them.

    <Lerad's paralysis post that I'm not even going to try quoting because I don't feel like trying to edit the unformatted html when it inevitably breaks>

    When we first switch paralysis over to dust, it was without the cure delay but there was a lot of pushback about this, hence the delay being reinstated. If we can remove the delay without it causing problems, I'd be perfectly fine with that (it ruins the delightful elegance of the aff system :C) but that's something I definitely want a good amount of discussion around, perhaps via envoy report.


    Kalnid said:
    On fire still providing the defense but not curing: Do you mean the frost resistance or the fire defense which blocks shivering once? If the latter, would that mean it would be possible to raise fire defense while shivering or frozen?
    Likely both; in the case of sipping while shivering/frozen, it'd do nothing. This might not be feasible if there's nothing that double-applies cold affs, though, so we'll see. It's possible aquas will need to be adjusted a bit to make it work as well.


    Nienla said:
    I personally feel that ditching the shrugging from Resilience is an outstanding step forward, as is ditching Resilience in general as this lowers the barrier of entry for new players since Resilience is one of the most important ones to get. However, one of my concerns from ditching the shrugging is something that @Synkarin has mentioned in the past in that warriors/monks may be too potent in terms of aff rate with shrugging removed.

    Probably what I'll do with shrugging is give everyone innate shrugging to start (probably less than what trans resilience now), and scale it back as we make whatever adjustments are needed to make sure poisons/poison-giving abilities aren't too powerful.


    Celina said:

    What do you mean by "larger regen buffs?" I'm trying to think about what provides regen and most comes from skills or the odd quest like the spire. I guess I can't tell by the wording if it's going to be linearly applied with more weight for certain things or progressive curve skewed towards the higher levels. One of the previous issues with regen was it sucked for 90% of the game, but then you had niche players like Harmony monks where it was outright stupid. 
    The buff levels for many abilities is going to be toned down, since right now I'm told it's possible to basically max out/close to max out basically all the regens reasonably easily for a lot of people, and this tends to leave certain regen boosts redundant/worthless (e.g. pre-report surge, elfen racial perks). It'll be rescaled so most buffs have a much lower cap, but with the regen levels being a bit more effective, so most people won't see a lot of immediate difference, but allowing us to have the big regen abilities actually be worthwhile. I've not been terribly involved in this bit personally, so I'm not sure on all the specifics.


    Ssaliss said:

    Re: aeon cure queue, personally, I'd like to see a separate queue a'la stratagems, to avoid unfortunate situations. For instance, you're hit with an attack that causes three afflictions, so your system fires away three cures. Before any of those go through, however, you're also hit with aeon, which means the three cures are now queued up if it's a general command queue. A stratagem-like queue would also mean you'd be able to adjust it as the situation develops.
    It'll be possible to clear the queue, but anything beyond that probably isn't going to happen.

    ---

    Somehow it ended up almost 2am, so I'm stopping here, will get to the rest of the thread soon. Seriously, you all post too much. You're supposed to just agree with everything I say while chanting the Cuttlefish Canticle and sending me chocolate.
    7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    Google has failed me in finding this canticle. Can you teach it to us?
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  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,623 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Currently TK clots are cured by eat yarrow, burst vessels are cured by sipping healing and eating sparkleberry.

    Also, in the discussion of writhe cures, there was no mention of clamp and hoist.
     Can we keep clamp? :(


    In regards to ice stacking and so forth, I have some reports up for calcise/dendroxin and wound building, that we can discuss in the warrior overhaul thread.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    As a note, since liniment is around 1.5 second recovery and ice is around 2 seconds, we can adjust the burn curing up a tad to compensate. 
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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    The issue with paralysis dust curing (setting aside sap for a minute, assuming it won't be an issue in the long term) is that any class that can stack lots of dust cures will force using focus to cure paralysis or you're utterly shut down. The ones that really come to mind are Cacophony and Nihilist, but also Harbingers and the ecology cluster (because of poisons). Being able to quickly stack four or so affs on top of paralysis with relative ease alongside dust/plague curing fail chances will make it really traumatic to get paralyzed. 

    That's why I suggest shifting to paresis in most cases, but not all. For instance, there was a huge stink when one of the Nihilist abilities (Omen?) was slotted to get changed to on command paralysis. If most cases of paralysis (absolutely including mantakaya) are switched to paresis, being able to slap on true paralysis on command for a class that can already load up on plague affs is actually quite a useful lockdown ability. 
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