Springtraps require us being there first, and you would trip the trap before bondsing. Springtraps also have a %chance to fail. But that being said every kind of movement does. Except Igasho Carry.
I've actually walked into the room you guys are in, put in spring traps at the exits, and then gotten out. Chasing (or leaving) means that you visit our group. Risky, sure. But it can pay off, and when it does it's glorious!
Was it melded, did we have 16 people there, and was it trapped already?
Springtraps require us being there first, and you would trip the trap before bondsing. Springtraps also have a %chance to fail. But that being said every kind of movement does. Except Igasho Carry.
I've actually walked into the room you guys are in, put in spring traps at the exits, and then gotten out. Chasing (or leaving) means that you visit our group. Risky, sure. But it can pay off, and when it does it's glorious!
Was it melded, did we have 16 people there, and was it trapped already?
1) Didn't matter if it was melded or how many people were there, I used Serpent. 2) It was pitted, I fell into the pit. Serpent came up almost immediately thereafter, because I serpent, drop it, and wait until it's about to come back up to move. Then I climb out-- just need to survive long enough for the serpent tick to refresh. 3) As long as the person doesn't reconceal the pit (I don't have to worry about this, on your side only Kelly does so, so if she's not there I'm fine) I can disarm / trap and try to get out.
Serpent is Your Best Friend if you're trying to break up an enemy group. It doesn't work in enemy territory in distort, of course, but works fine in your own area (on defense) or in any neutral territory. Serpent abuse is essential to survival if you're the mobile strike force on your team.
That works with the exception of enemy axelord. I'm also guessing that tackle can't be resisted, 'cause that's a lot of power for a move you can only do once.
Edit: Full isn't so much a case. If you're pitted or the likes and you have any disabling conditions when you full, you can still be screwed over pretty hard.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
You can have a truehealer walk in, everyone will attack and drop shields, a bard can follow in behind and scissor, Celestine trueheals and walks out.
Bonds is certainly an advantage in stand offs, but it's far from ironclad. Just because you don't know how to, or are afraid to, counter it does not mean it cannot be.
That works with the exception of enemy axelord. I'm also guessing that tackle can't be resisted, 'cause that's a lot of power for a move you can only do once.
It can be resisted. That's why we're talking about risk here. You have to be willing to risk something to gain something. I see Kelly reading this thread; ask her how many deaths she has. It's not because she plays it safe and sits back to watch and hope.
I'd rather face @Rivius, @Raeri, @Mnemosyne and @Demartel together in a group fight (all four are Trackers) than one @Kaimanahi because the first four will play conservatively. It gives me far more options. With Kelly around I have to go with a completely different playstyle. That said, Demartel (followed by Rivius) are the least conservative, and will actually do some risky things now and again, but even then it's night-and-day in comparison to what Kelly is willing to put on the line.
Prismatics are brought up because they also fall under the category of "really hard abilities to counter, but not impossible", along with Aerochemantics StaticField.
Let's not pretend the North doesn't have its fair share of amusingly ridiculous toys in its arsenal. And when both sides have it*, it's balanced.
*it, being hard-to-counter things, not specifically Bonds.
ok, you can 100% beckon out of bonds. Stop saying otherwise, it's not magical movement and will most certainly work if you aren't double blocking or resisting.
Bonds doesn't stop beckon, please stop saying that it does. When I can get an SD to show up, I'll prove it.
The best advantage of bonds is that glomdoring has control of when to drop it to maximize its effect but that's how strategy works. Bonds helps decide fights, but knowing when to push is more valuable.
Yes, bonds is OP and static field isn't. Gosh darn. And beckon works through bonds. We just have several blockers blocking exits. We should clearly change the thread's title to: Southern Tactics and How To Counter Them For The North's Benefit.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
So what I'm really curious about is what special privileges Maligorn and Taevyn have that I don't. I just banned from speaking about the topic and warned. They got whole new thread!
Are we only allowed to criticize specific things? Can I get a list? Do derails require pre approval?
To clear up some misconceptions that even people in Hallifax seem to have, static field is not on a timed tick like the other fields. It has a chance of proccing on entrance and when the aerochem is hit. Once you are in the room and can stay in the room static field isn't going to do anything to you until you target the aerochem (and then the chance to proc is still fairly low without even taking into account rooting). It basically acts like scissorflip except the aerochem doesn't control who the chance to proc is rolled for and you don't need to use power during the fight. Is it strictly worse than scissorflip? Not at all. There are situational cases where static field is actually very powerful. However in a meld-pit turtle meta unfortunately it doesn't have the effectiveness that people seem to think it is. In all honesty if I had a choice I would rather have scissorflip.
That all said, feel free to nerf static field if it means aerochem can actually get skills that aren't as situationally dependent in exchange
I'll concede that currently bonds stops beckon (I think it's a bug), meaning it pretty much does eliminate the ability to pull someone out of a room from a distance.
But given that you can also stop bonds with double blocking, it falls under the same argument where everyone can stop beckon much like bonds does.
So what I'm really curious about is what special privileges Maligorn and Taevyn have that I don't. I just banned from speaking about the topic and warned. They got whole new thread!
Are we only allowed to criticize specific things? Can I get a list? Do derails require pre approval?
You, along with three or four other individuals, were warned after continuing a hostile discussion basically calling people, jerks, lame, lazy, etc after I asked everyone to stop, twice. This discussion seems to be moderately productive and lacking in name calling. If you disagree, you can contact support@lusternia.com.
Is the argument here that bonds is not incredibly powerful, when everyone agrees that distort needs to be nerfed? Or is it that there is some counter, so therefore it's hunky dory? Night overall has some problematic design, but it incontrovertibly has some of (if not the highest) group scenario-control via bonds and brume (and gloomtide, I guess, but that's so easily coded against these days). Fights with a Night user on one side are always on the terms of the Night user, unless said nighty is grossly outnumbered/played. Sure, there are still some methods that can be used to move the be-bonded people, but it means that Glom('s team) can flat ignore a huge part of Lusternian group combat if they feel like it.
That all said, feel free to nerf static field if it means aerochem can actually get skills that aren't as situationally dependent in exchange
You could have Wildecall :P . For real, static field has been toned down since the early days of aerochem but... it's still solidly the most useful trans skill and aerochems are still certainly in the top two-ish of woodchems overall (Tied with pyrochems). It's certainly not on the level of bonds for group control, it's closer to a weaker Reality.
I don't recall any changes to beckon so that's likely a bug.
edit:
How is static field a weaker version of reality? It moves with the aerochem. It has a chance to proc on entry AND attacking the aeromancer, meaning it can only proc on those fighting the aero(the South in this case). On the other hand, Reality affects everyone, it is not mobile and procs on entry and exit only.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Forcing movement to split a group is one of (if not THE) most important parts of combat. Anything that makes it trivial or otherwise enhances your ability to mitigate any subset of movement skills is powerful, especially any ability which affects your entire team (or the entire enemy team).
I see Kelly reading this thread; ask her how many deaths she has.
Don't you know it's rude to ask about a woman's death count.
But let's not kid ourselves. Tackle is not a valid counter to bonds. Tackle itself has so many counters that trying it is generally stupid and suicidal.
I agree, nerf shields, block and mono's please, too powerful.
Oh my, I just can't imagine any situations in which you might not be shielded, someone might disrupt your block, or anyone could possibly pick up a dropped monolith. Not a single one! That's why no one ever uses bonds, because it does nothing they're already doing.
But really. If bonds did nothing that was not already so easily done, there would obviously be no use in spending the power and no one would. Yet, bonds is commonly used, because it acts as if you have all of those blocking methods up at once, constantly with no chance of error and in a much more difficult to disrupt manner. In a standoff between a group with bonds and a group with no bonds, there are several ways to work around blocks/monos/shields. These can include using ranged shield strippers, ranged or in-room mono picking up (and immediately empressing the thief, for example), or as you've suggested - just sending someone in for everyone to attack, dropping their shield. The bonds side isn't vulnerable to that. You walk in and steal their mono, nope still protected (And the thief can't be empressed out). You walk in and everyone breaks shield to hit you, nope still protected. You move the blocking people, nope still protected. The techniques open to the bonded group for disrupting the non-bonds turtle aren't open in return to the non-bonds group, short of full on bum-rushing engage.
Reality is a (slightly) stronger version of static field because it doesn't rely on breaking a charge only on the user's room, and (compared to staticfield's 1 hr cooldown and dramatically decreasing proc chance over that 1hr) can be spammed more frequently. It also can scatter combat that's already been engaged, which static field cannot do. Really, they work in pretty fundamentally different ways, but static field was already being compared to bonds, with which is shares even less.
So what I'm really curious about is what special privileges Maligorn and Taevyn have that I don't. I just banned from speaking about the topic and warned. They got whole new thread!
Are we only allowed to criticize specific things? Can I get a list? Do derails require pre approval?
You, along with three or four other individuals, were warned after continuing a hostile discussion basically calling people, jerks, lame, lazy, etc after I asked everyone to stop, twice. This discussion seems to be moderately productive and lacking in name calling. If you disagree, you can contact support@lusternia.com.
Please stop trying to convince the forums population that I called anyone a jerk, loser, or otherwise. Maybe their privelage is you bothered to read their posts and not mine. Otherwise you'd stop saying it, maybe you wouldn't have deleted my post where I was defended myself against a similar falsehood. If you're going to keep saying it, please fix my warning to state I broke the rules by making personal attacks with name calling so that I can email support as suggested.
Anyways, as far as bonds goes, it falls into the bucket of "most OP skills in the game" for anyone who doesn't use it. In a full fortress, it provides a significant advantage. If you are on the offensive breaking into a fortress, it provides little benefit against a team that just stays shielded and waits you out (which is what you should be doing against it). It does not allow Glom to flat ignore anything, as the North also has its own fair share of very powerful abilities (like full and true heal) to break into these fortresses and split it up that are not available to the South. The only honest conversation worth having is the one about plays and counterpleas, and how alliances have skills that counter the other side is specific scenarios.
It's dishonest to draw a direct comparison to why distort needed to be nerfed vs the application of bonds. Distort is not OP/broken/whatever because it prevented summoning effects, it was nerfed because it made escaping enemy territory exceedingly more difficult. You had to have a ship present and could only exit out of 1 specific room. You can escape bonds anywhere by moving a room away.
Comments
2) It was pitted, I fell into the pit. Serpent came up almost immediately thereafter, because I serpent, drop it, and wait until it's about to come back up to move. Then I climb out-- just need to survive long enough for the serpent tick to refresh.
3) As long as the person doesn't reconceal the pit (I don't have to worry about this, on your side only Kelly does so, so if she's not there I'm fine) I can disarm / trap and try to get out.
Serpent is Your Best Friend if you're trying to break up an enemy group. It doesn't work in enemy territory in distort, of course, but works fine in your own area (on defense) or in any neutral territory. Serpent abuse is essential to survival if you're the mobile strike force on your team.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Edit: Full isn't so much a case. If you're pitted or the likes and you have any disabling conditions when you full, you can still be screwed over pretty hard.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
I'd rather face @Rivius, @Raeri, @Mnemosyne and @Demartel together in a group fight (all four are Trackers) than one @Kaimanahi because the first four will play conservatively. It gives me far more options. With Kelly around I have to go with a completely different playstyle. That said, Demartel (followed by Rivius) are the least conservative, and will actually do some risky things now and again, but even then it's night-and-day in comparison to what Kelly is willing to put on the line.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
That all said, feel free to nerf static field if it means aerochem can actually get skills that aren't as situationally dependent in exchange