In the meanwhile, taking bets on the title of the next thread she makes.
She actually didn't make this thread, it was split from Simple Ideas.
While I'm thinking about it though, would it be possible/viable to seduce a bunch of those guys, enemy someone, dreamjack during a group fight, and force them to fight in a cluster of the Nirvanamobs? Would that work, and 1-10 that on the 'dick move' scale for me?
Not being too strong. It started over them being aggressive, though I'm honestly not sure anymore. I've been told a bunch of conflicting information. I thought at first the Mobs were angry because of a quest which started when you touched the pillar....
The main problem would be getting someone INTO Nirvana and then into your little follower pit. It's basically the same problem as explained with the Druid Thunderdome, AKA Meld.
Wait a minute. This entire thread/discussion has been about Nirvana mobs being too strong?
More about the various hindrances stopping Dreamweaving from being a primary and defining kill strategy, class and identity. Nirvana mobs are just one part.
...I won't lie, the concept of a Dreamweaving-centered guild is actually interesting to me on a storyline level, but I don't see a way to make it happen with existing rules and structure without it being mind-blowingly OP.
Hrm. I was thinking of a commune/city or something with it's own title based in Nirvana. It's a silly idea and will never be implemented outside of roleplay, but I still imagine a little council of dreamweavers that are similiar to the Circle.
The main problem would be getting someone INTO Nirvana and then into your little follower pit. It's basically the same problem as explained with the Druid Thunderdome, AKA Meld.
The strategy for getting someone to fight in your meld is to bring the meld to them.
Start it elsewhere, get your effects going demesnewide, move with your group so someone chops/realitychecks, someone else forceforests, and you meld it. By the time the enemy has a chance to forcecast over your melding it, they should have been hit by at least one tick of your effects, which they will then be trying to resolve when your side has person B forceforest again, you meld again, and person A plant a sapling. If you don't have enough people to pull that off, you set your demesne up to ensnare then when they try to break a room they can't, you cut off their escape route or go for the throat. Admittedly harder than it sounds.
They become aggressive as part of the quest which starts with touching the pillar, once the first few phases are completed, starting a new Dream War. This is not linked to one player, it's a mini-event type thing that lasts until the Dream War is resolved by killing the six False Gods (among other things).
EDIT: I had an idea for a mechnic in which players take on the mantle of the Circle and do some dream dueling, but it wasn't worth the coding resources, basically.
Nirvana is BIG, you can't reasonably just extend your demesne to your target. This is ground that was pretty exhaustivly covered in the Dreamweaving special report thread, and doesn't really bear repeating.
A lot of Nirvana is forest, so the forceforest isn't really needed. If you have about 10 druids then it could be possible to do every single room, but would cost silly amounts of power to do.
That was more for everywhere but Nirvana, since you can't reliably bring enough teammates up to Nirvana to make a group combat team. And even if you could, it'd be gank-squad on one combat, which won't really need your demesne to be deadly. Anyway you Forceforest to overwrite whatever terrain the other melder had up and undo their meld more than to establish ethereal forest terrain.
If we are talking specifically about getting a meld going in Nirvana, that's a trickier subject and the only thing I can think to do is set up quickly, Maelstrom/Fury/whatever it is that sets up all your effects at once, then try to summon, gust, or induce them into it. Or just hope they accidentally walk into it for whatever reason.
SO I found out that I can't get dreamcrystals now. That's slightly upsetting. I was thinking about creating designs based on mixing motes and dreamcrystals together to make Nirvana themed jewellery. I know that mote based things exist, but are uncommon and even more uncommonly public.
To plunge Nirvana into war, or to enjoy how peaceful it is... Surely influencing could produce dreamcrystals? Possibly.
Edit:
Walking around, I also seem to take random bursts of damage which may have something to do with the gods, who aren't fighting and so shouldn't be doing damage. There is no message for it.
You can overheal. I've gained 300 temporary max health. Insignificant, but I don't know if it scales or not.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Well, I mean...Neither are honeycombs, deer, merians, or crowfeathers.
DESIGN LISTCOMMS. Those four are absolutely commodities. Dreamcrystals are not listed. You could try messaging the Charites about it, I guess.
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!
Without flaming this thread up further, I wanted to add that I've seen people in dreambodies being very successful aides in combat. I remember one instance where a dreamweaver made a rather large difference on our side on a domoth claim ( was two or so months ago ). Sure, being physically there has a lot of advantages and probably will make you have more impact, but having a dreamweaver in dreambody with you on a combat situation where people do not expect you to have one can be quite an advantage. Not as the dreamweaver will score any kills, but they'll cause quite a confusion on the enemy group and if I remember correctly make it possible for some people being pulled out of their current defense rooms, allowing your group to kill them.
Huge thanks, and I do mean huge thanks for all the clarity you've brought to a frankly confusing discussion. I know you've mentioned bits and pieces already, but if you could just write a real quick summary of what new DW is going to feel like I'd be grateful beyond words - and I'd quite understand if you don't want to/aren't allowed to. Basically, I went Crow/Wyrden/DW because 1) I like the whole specialsnowflakeniche build in any game, and 2) I just thought those RP elements worked really well together for the kind of toon I wanted to play. If the RP or execution of DW changes drastically I'm probably going to flex, and the more notice the better!
Same shout-out to all the envoys. I have frankly heard a lot of bad things about Lusty combat from other branches of the IRE family tree, and having read this discussion I feel we're in really good hands.
Much love
Versa
The Thiefy Griefy Leafy Tree
PS - Just one grumble I will bring to the table, and this is to the game in general not any individual - had I known that DW was aimed at no-system/no-triggers players, I would have factored that very heavily into my initial choice on whether to play it. Actually, I would have totally still chosen it, but I think that needs to be made far more explicitly clear to people who are thinking about taking it. How that could be done without breaking immersion... I'm not so sure, but I suspect even the fact that we now know that means that we can better inform nubs who are asking questions about the skillset.
Dreamweaving itself isn't necessarily aimed at those kinds of players, dreambody is. At least, that's been my impression, I can't pull out a quote from administration directly saying that. They might have said it, but I just didn't log it Dreamweaving should (and does/will) provide tools for fully be-system'd players to pursue more regular kinds of combat as well.
It's not so much that the RP is going to change, it's more that the changes announced to update dreamweaving with the inclusion (and centralization) of Nirvana changes will actually impact players, because they'll work for regular combat now. Sleep has always been a problematic mechanic, the changes will indirectly generate a more 'waking dream' or 'nightmare made real' kind of feel, instead of 'You have to be asleep and unless you're fighting a druid, don't sweat it' vibe.
I can give a kind of rambly rundown of what final drafts of the report/skillset looked like, which should be pretty close to how things end up, implementation hitches notwithstanding. I do want to do a big shoutout to @Roark who was really interactive and direct about questions and clarification on intent with the report. There are a lot of things that players/envoys evidently take for given that aren't necessarily clear or obvious to all admins, like what a 'channeled ability' means! It sucks when you send things out into the aether and only hear months later when everything is coded and in that there was some fundamental misunderstanding of what you meant, being able to actually sit down and talk things over is a massive boon.
The short is that the newer additions to dreamweaving (tower/blade/beast), along with haunt will be updated and brought into corporeal use using a limiting mechanic. This mechanic applies to all of these 'Dreamrealm summons passives', giving the dreamweaver a choice of effects but not letting them take them ALL. Basically, the dreamweaver has a secondary resource pool that works like power: You have a cap of 10 active motes and a pool of reserve motes that trickle into active over time. The big difference is that using one of those summon passives lowers the cap of active motes by a certain amount! I don't remember the exact numbers, but say you activate blade and it has a 'commit' cost of 4 motes. I called it 'commit' because you pay up the four motes, and lower the cap from 10 active motes to 6 motes - as if you have committed those 4 motes into that effect, and can't use them for anything else. If you wanted to use an ability that needs 7 motes, TOO BAD, you can't until you release the blade.
In general, the intent was to create a tertiary focused around stacking mental afflictions to power vitals draining, or to directly drain vitals if you're a guild that outputs more damage than afflictions. Haunt is similar to what the dreambeast does now, passively flicking motes for some affliction pressure. Dreamblade deals damage to all three vitals, sort of similar to a telepathy mindblast. Tower works in corporeal, but instead of locking in enemies it creates a small zone of slowed movement (for a high commit cost, of course). Beast is really the lynchpin, it periodically attacks its target, dealing vitals damage based on the number of mental affs the target has, eventually powering up at a threshold to slow slush balance to clinch kills. The idea here is that you can use haunt and dreambeast together to directly pursue your solo kill, or perhaps use blade and tower for a more group oriented setup... or even blade and haunt together, if you want to do that! You just can't do three, or beast and tower at the same time.
Aside from that core idea, there are generally a lot of skill tweaks and fixes, some of which are already live. The idea with most of these changes is to provide a framework for future additions or changes, clearing out kludge that would make it tough to justify those additions. Sleep tactics writ large are gone, with sleep mist no longer having its sleep tick and no more double/triple sleeping. Sleepmist's sleep effect has been replaced (and the skill renamed to Doldrums) by negative ego regen levels on enemies, to help vitals draining. The mote afflictions themselves have been simplified, no longer requiring puncturing or pre-crafting, they instead use the same active mote pool I mentioned above, with a cool mechanic for generating and storing motes! I envision adding at least two more afflictions to the mote pool in future.
Dreambody will be streamlined some. I introduced a new mechanic in mindsoothe: Instead of being a flicked mote, it instead is a toggled passive dreambody effect that cures a mental affliction on a linked ally every tick. This gives dreamweavers a way to help their ally with a nice effect, tied in with link/tether mechanics. The future might hold another option or two for a 'link aura' , perhaps one boosting vitals or providing a ticking vitals heal. Like the mindsoothe change, with puncture gone, the limit on flicking motes at a target is tied to linking - you can only flick motes as a dreambody at a target you are currently linked to! This means that you can't flick afflictions and use passive aff curing through mindsoothe at the same time, and that it'll take a bit to switch targets in the middle of combat. It also means that shielding blocks more of dreambodies, as you can't link to a shielded target. A lot of the other things discussed in the report thread also went through, including limits on dreamjacking and the ability for any sever attack (of which Burst will now be one!) to break links.
Will embedding motes into your demesne/garland/noose go away? Are there plans to give --wood or --mantics a passive like they could with sleepmist? I live the way this is going, hopefully we'll see more DW in high tier
Might be really cool if some skills changed cosmetic forms depending on the primary skill the user has. Like, a Wyrdenwood's "tower" is a gallows, an aerochem's blade is made of plasma, pyromancer's dreambeast is a Blargg, etc.
7 ) 2016/06/04 08:45:55 - Versalean: "The wasp is asleep - take a care."
^start
6 ) 2016/06/04 15:44:18 - Lerad: "Did she qq?"
7 ) 2016/06/04 15:44:21 - Lerad: "I guess she did."
8 ) 2016/06/04 15:44:26 - Xenthos: "Looks that way."
^ end
The first is Glomdoring's ctell log. The second is an OOC clan I was using while she was at her shenanigans. That was right after she died for dreamweaving in Glomdoring. In between, according to the logs (before I logged on) she had been griefing Gaudiguch as well.
Can we delete bodyslip as a hotfix, please? A dreamgriefer deserves nothing but to be stomped into the ground over and over until they leave this game.
@Lerad Playing Devil's Advocate here, but I personally don't think bodyslip bodysnap needs to be removed entirely, and doing so creates as many issues as it solves. A more reasonable alternative to removal would be giving it a delay time and interrupting if your dreambody is hit.
Then again, I'm also personally of a mind that the majority of the arguments in this thread are fairly reactionary. The special report on dreamweaving seems to be well thought out from the few parts I've seen (between Enyalida's posting and some mutterings over the grapevine), and while this all is a temporary inconvenience, I'm fairly sure it will be less of one soon Soon™.
Sure, I'm down with a more nuanced and proper solution in the long term. In the short term, however, 7 full fucking hours of dealing with her bullshit is ridiculous. This is the weekend. If you make it so that this game is a pain to log in to on vacation and rest days, you're not going to have a game eventually.
1) What's bodyslip? Do you mean bodysnap? The thing that yanks them back to their body?
2) I don't understand the issue from the log snippets. I'm guessing harassing people for hours? I bet you can issue it if she's attacking the same people for hours on end.
What I think needs to be changed is you get enemy territory deaths rather than prime seren deaths if you are weaving in enemy territory, and some kind of cooldown on weaving so you can't do it forever. Willpower would be severely limiting a level 60 from weaving more than 30 minutes at a time.
Also huh, I'm pretty sure you do get enemy territory deaths if your dreambody dies in enemy territory. That's just not significantly worse for non-demis, the way it is for demigods.
Also huh, I'm pretty sure you do get enemy territory deaths if your dreambody dies in enemy territory. That's just not significantly worse for non-demis, the way it is for demigods.
He's actually referring to slipping to Nirvana. What she's doing right now is hopping to Prime, inducing people to say something, then slipping back to Nirvana so we can't do anything to her (not even going after her physical body).
We ended up having to just put a crew of people with 1s violet timer triggers in the room where she returns from Nirvana to make her go pop.
Edit: Note that standing around in a room with 1s violet timer triggers is not exactly "fun".
Oh yeah. That probably does need to be a slower ability to go to Nirvana, that wouldn't really break anything. Make it a channel with a cool set of messages.
Do you get enemy territory deaths? It's been so long, I vaguely remember Shuyin ganking me in Prime Glom and I'd rezz back in Glom but god knows if that memory is accurate.
Also yeah, just issue her if that's all she's doing for hours. That's just harassment, plain and simple. No goal other than irritating people for 8 hours.
Comments
It's not so much that the RP is going to change, it's more that the changes announced to update dreamweaving with the inclusion (and centralization) of Nirvana changes will actually impact players, because they'll work for regular combat now. Sleep has always been a problematic mechanic, the changes will indirectly generate a more 'waking dream' or 'nightmare made real' kind of feel, instead of 'You have to be asleep and unless you're fighting a druid, don't sweat it' vibe.
I can give a kind of rambly rundown of what final drafts of the report/skillset looked like, which should be pretty close to how things end up, implementation hitches notwithstanding. I do want to do a big shoutout to @Roark who was really interactive and direct about questions and clarification on intent with the report. There are a lot of things that players/envoys evidently take for given that aren't necessarily clear or obvious to all admins, like what a 'channeled ability' means! It sucks when you send things out into the aether and only hear months later when everything is coded and in that there was some fundamental misunderstanding of what you meant, being able to actually sit down and talk things over is a massive boon.
The short is that the newer additions to dreamweaving (tower/blade/beast), along with haunt will be updated and brought into corporeal use using a limiting mechanic. This mechanic applies to all of these 'Dreamrealm summons passives', giving the dreamweaver a choice of effects but not letting them take them ALL. Basically, the dreamweaver has a secondary resource pool that works like power: You have a cap of 10 active motes and a pool of reserve motes that trickle into active over time. The big difference is that using one of those summon passives lowers the cap of active motes by a certain amount! I don't remember the exact numbers, but say you activate blade and it has a 'commit' cost of 4 motes. I called it 'commit' because you pay up the four motes, and lower the cap from 10 active motes to 6 motes - as if you have committed those 4 motes into that effect, and can't use them for anything else. If you wanted to use an ability that needs 7 motes, TOO BAD, you can't until you release the blade.
In general, the intent was to create a tertiary focused around stacking mental afflictions to power vitals draining, or to directly drain vitals if you're a guild that outputs more damage than afflictions. Haunt is similar to what the dreambeast does now, passively flicking motes for some affliction pressure. Dreamblade deals damage to all three vitals, sort of similar to a telepathy mindblast. Tower works in corporeal, but instead of locking in enemies it creates a small zone of slowed movement (for a high commit cost, of course). Beast is really the lynchpin, it periodically attacks its target, dealing vitals damage based on the number of mental affs the target has, eventually powering up at a threshold to slow slush balance to clinch kills. The idea here is that you can use haunt and dreambeast together to directly pursue your solo kill, or perhaps use blade and tower for a more group oriented setup... or even blade and haunt together, if you want to do that! You just can't do three, or beast and tower at the same time.
Aside from that core idea, there are generally a lot of skill tweaks and fixes, some of which are already live. The idea with most of these changes is to provide a framework for future additions or changes, clearing out kludge that would make it tough to justify those additions. Sleep tactics writ large are gone, with sleep mist no longer having its sleep tick and no more double/triple sleeping. Sleepmist's sleep effect has been replaced (and the skill renamed to Doldrums) by negative ego regen levels on enemies, to help vitals draining. The mote afflictions themselves have been simplified, no longer requiring puncturing or pre-crafting, they instead use the same active mote pool I mentioned above, with a cool mechanic for generating and storing motes! I envision adding at least two more afflictions to the mote pool in future.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Also huh, I'm pretty sure you do get enemy territory deaths if your dreambody dies in enemy territory. That's just not significantly worse for non-demis, the way it is for demigods.
We ended up having to just put a crew of people with 1s violet timer triggers in the room where she returns from Nirvana to make her go pop.
Edit: Note that standing around in a room with 1s violet timer triggers is not exactly "fun".