Shielding wont counter a succumb that can get you from full mana to a toad range in the space of a stun. Because you can't shield during stuns Yarith.
I'm sorry, there's -plenty- of other things that can kill you in the time of a shieldstun, as you yourself demonstrated, in a group. So please, it's very obvious you hate succumb, We've been working to get succumb into a range where it's not nasty (and more balanced, though am not sure if we'll ever get it out of the awkward zone. Still more in favour of scrapping and retrying it ) but it will remain a threat, it's supposed to be a threat, really. you will have to act when you are succumbed in a group setup, just as you have to act when you're hit by aurics under octave, or being deathsonged or being chasmned or whatnot. let's keep this discussion civil, please?
Succumbs being singled out because of the speed you can get killed with it. Literally no other ability can be used to kill someone in the space of a single stun.
Deathsong requires eight seconds (and I actually agree is a bit overpowered in a specific group setting and I've suggested nerfs to it as well)
EDIT: To expand on the deathsong thing actually. Its got a set counter in the way of blind but not every class can blind reliably. It can be countered with gust but well thats luck based, I can and have resisted six gusts in a row. Etc etc. I've suggested a blind enchantment or something like that so that every class has a way to counter deathsong, also suggested lowering earache to not be longer than 8 eight seconds because I think its super silly I can set up a death song on someone with a single blank note.
So there are certain situations where I can literally just deathsong people and it goes off due to pure luck of me resisting all the gusts, their ear ache lasting over 9 seconds etc etc.
EDIT: I've also suggested a nerf to reflections for one on one combat after discovering that I'm basically immune to warriors with it.
Like I think inquisition or the bard auric set up is super powerful but I don't think its overpowered. It's got clear warnings and plenty of time to run from it even with a group doing it to you. The way succumb works though is you can literally cast succumb on a target under certain stuns and have the target toadable before that stun ends.
I mean we had people complaining about how a monk could kill them in under 115 seconds with straight up damage, imagine how much these people would be complaining if they had to deal with succumb
A well-coordinated handful of Shadowdancers lashing will achieve the same effect. Or any guild that can manadrain+manakill, actually. The stun allows for a larger margin of error, sure, but all of it can go by pretty fast.
A well-coordinated handful of Shadowdancers lashing will achieve the same effect. Or any guild that can manadrain+manakill, actually. The stun allows for a larger margin of error, sure, but all of it can go by pretty fast.
Your kind of right there with most ego or mana kills or just kill set ups in general but the difference is the amount of people needed. You'd need a coordinated team of five to ego/mana kill me in a balance any other way other than succumb.
I mean I could quad auric and dchord a target with five bards instantly as well. Or get half a dozen druids to instant rend. (Which is a bit silly and probably should be fixed in someway before it starts to get abused) Issue with succumb is I can make people toad able in a single standard balance with just one person supporting me.
There's no other set up in the game with a one balance instant kill with that few people setting it up. I mean the consensus is that its a fairly overpowered ability, coming from envoys from Hallifax, Serenwilde, everywhere etc etc and its a case of trying to come up with a solution thats good for the Moondancers and good for the game.
So, uh, can I see a log of you being toadcursed via succumb in a single stun, so that I know you're not grossly hyperbolizing? I'm actually semi-serious here, because I'm not fighting MDs on a regular basis.
I think you're incorrect entirely. When you say 'No ability can kill people in a single stun' you're really being vague and obtuse. Any and everything can kill you in a single stun, with a varying amount of people. That's what group pvp is. If you get three nihilist in a room, shieldstun, crux, crunch, demons all do their various things, and suddenly you have a sacrifice within a single stun window.
If you aren't curing mental affs and have 6 on you to put you within insta range within the stun, then you clearly have at least 3 people hitting you. The same death in one stun kill can be accomplished by near anything including three timed lashes with banshees, three double powersink amissios, pretty much any conditional insta.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
I'm caught up on how deathsong is "overpowered" when we have earache balance in place to counter it, you're not getting an deathsong off without serious coordination.
I don't have the exact math but earache is random (if I am not misremembering) from 3-7 seconds while deathsong goes off at 8. So if they start deathsong and earache procs as high as 7s you still will have time to eat earwort, tell clt to gust dsonger, if you do it on a trigger.
It's a great instakill, but it's definitely not overpowered since it's easily stopped with gust, eat earwort, moving from the room etc.
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It's a great instakill, but it's definitely not overpowered since it's easily stopped with gust, eat earwort, moving from the room etc.
walking out stops succumb, shielding stops succumb, the prismatic of your choice does, hindering the hexen will stop it, and so on. The main problem it has, is that it hits very fast in a group scenario, which is why wobou has made the change he has. If it turns out to still not be enough, I'm sure we'll consider another nerf to it. Why are we having this argument again?
P.S. I never meant to imply that deathsong is overpowered the way succumb is, it's very powerful and a good example how a good group setup will wreck you fast.
P.P.S could also considering increase the tick time if that's a better fix ( to give people more chance to actually be able to get their shield up ).
P.P.P.S want to clarify that am NOT a fan of succumb, mostly because, while it sounded great when it was originally suggested by someone on the forums, I kind of feel the way it turned out is a balance nightmare both for the MD side and for the opponent side. There's a reason you see me being a healer most of the time. I still am always glad to have a conversation on people having a civilized and constructive conversation on alternatives.
I'll dig out a few logs. In response to Yarith though you should read up on your skills your class can give. Lets off the top of my head see a Hex Moondancer and an Tarot guardian could hit for 9 mental afflictions between them in the space of a standard threeish second balance. Lets say your not hindered in curing at all that's you with 6 mental afflictions come the succumb hit. Boom Absolvable.
You should probably read up on the defences available to you. You have whitetea, chaos karma, death karma. In groups, even in the south, you have several roomwide affcures through sources like undeadblues/vileblood.
Yes a hexen can whammy all 6 of their hexes at you for 1+s per bal but if they fling all 3 sets of whammy you're going to have a window afterwards to sip/sparkle/scroll when the stun ends before they can toadcurse you.
If you have any real, actual concrete concerns you can pass them onto your envoys and I am sure they will bring it up in address through the proper means.
EDIT: Believe it or not, if you pair any two or three of any two or three given classes you can probably kill someone in a three second stun. Just read up on their skillsets
EDIT*2: And, let's take your scenario for example. If it's 2v2 with a wiccan and a guardian, if you have a friend with any capability they can sprinkle salt around you and suddenly either of the guardian or wiccan will have to expend 3s to break your shield and you suddenly survive the window. Is it viable longterm? Probably not but you can disengage succumb.
I'm not arguing that succumb is fine, but arguing that it's in a bad place because it has the potential to kill people in a stun in groups is, well, a breach of parity.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
I'm caught up on how deathsong is "overpowered" when we have earache balance in place to counter it, you're not getting an deathsong off without serious coordination.
I don't have the exact math but earache is random (if I am not misremembering) from 3-7 seconds while deathsong goes off at 8. So if they start deathsong and earache procs as high as 7s you still will have time to eat earwort, tell clt to gust dsonger, if you do it on a trigger.
It's a great instakill, but it's definitely not overpowered since it's easily stopped with gust, eat earwort, moving from the room etc.
Actually, earache can exceed deathsong timer (needs to be envoyed to a more reasonable range). Its randomness is highly bothersome on all sides.
Saying easily countered by earwort, moving rooms and gust is also just not pragmatic as a reliable counter. Earwort (see above). Moving rooms (pfifth). Gust (fail once and you likely die, also icewalls). Serious coordination is perhaps an overstatement. One decently timed shieldstun and they die, for example. I wouldn't call that "serious coordination."
It's a great instakill, but it's definitely not overpowered since it's easily stopped with gust, eat earwort, moving from the room etc.
walking out stops succumb, shielding stops succumb, the prismatic of your choice does, hindering the hexen will stop it, and so on. The main problem it has, is that it hits very fast in a group scenario, which is why wobou has made the change he has. If it turns out to still not be enough, I'm sure we'll consider another nerf to it. Why are we having this argument again?
P.S. I never meant to imply that deathsong is overpowered the way succumb is, it's very powerful and a good example how a good group setup will wreck you fast.
Deathsong requires eight seconds (and I actually agree is a bit overpowered in a specific group setting and I've suggested nerfs to it as well)
The deep, rumbling voice of Weiwae says from within your heart, "I am so happy to hear of your progress, and I thank you for bringing my influence over more shards of My Brother Tae."
If the argument is that 4 or so people can instakill you, or after one round of balances, then that's not unique to Succumb.
However Succumb is clearly too much mana drain, which is the motivation for report. I'm disappointed we couldn't go with the tracking the source of the afflictions, that would've given a solid foundation for balancing it for groups and solo, but alas, coding resources are limited.
If the argument is that 4 or so people can instakill you, or after one round of balances, then that's not unique to Succumb.
However Succumb is clearly too much mana drain, which is the motivation for report. I'm disappointed we couldn't go with the tracking the source of the afflictions, that would've given a solid foundation for balancing it for groups and solo, but alas, coding resources are limited.
Completely agree.
It also would have given a solid foundation for envoying other skills in similar situations or that lack solo ability to build them up to be effective solo without burdening group combat.
Group combat has always exacerbated certain offenses. This is not unique to succumb. I don't see why it should be unfairly singled out.
Rofl. Unfairly singled out? If players create a new balance concern through an envoy report, it is 100% fair to address the repercussions of that report. Single player balance is never an excuse to throw out multi player balance, and your reasoning is ridiculous. Envoys do not get free passes to break group mechanics to fix their solo mechanics.
I have no idea what succumb is doing mana drain wise or if the numbers are fair or not, but as Shedrin kind of pointed out with the desired solution, drains that stack with generally available afflictions are a fundamentally different balance problem than class specific drains like "if X number of SDs all drain your mana at the same time..." Any argument that X number specific Y class can do the same thing is not relevant. Everyone has mental affs, so anything that scales off of universally available affs has to account for significantly more situations than, for example, the MD counterpart in shadowtwist. Without specific limitations, such as one shadow per target, balance is a nightmare.
TL;DR: Envoys dropped the ball by making a mana drain that scales passively off of everyone. People are allowed to be irritated for exploding under mental aff spam/toad.
Shield is a solo solution, it's always been the counter to burst offenses like hexes. Shield is not a group solution. You guys need better triggers or something.
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TL;DR: Envoys dropped the ball by making a mana drain that scales passively off of everyone. People are allowed to be irritated for exploding under mental aff spam/toad.
If you look at the comments for 1505 most folks including myself said that the overall concept is fine but the numbers were probably too much. I don't really see how you can blame envoys for the fact that those comments weren't taken into consideration when it was implemented. That being said, if you look at those comments there's like 5 out of a total of ~26 envoys who commented, I'll agree that the envoys who didn't bother to comment dropped the ball by not evaluating the original report.
Keep in mind that 1505 was after they nerfed sleeplocks and also called for removing aeon. For whatever reason the aeon removal was not lumped in to the accepted solution. So in context they were asking for removing some of the strongest parts of their class and get a strong mana drain in return (even if there were serious problems with the numbers for the wane part of it too).
Okay, I avoid commenting on envoy matters on the forums (or outside of envoys for the most part), but I feel the need to step in here.
Succumb is a problem in its current, implemented form (as implemented by report 1505). I don't think anybody will deny that. That is also why there is an open report on it, from Serenwilde itself, in Report 1583. And this will be implemented, this time with proper testing and feedback from envoys as it is developed when I can get to it (keeping in mind literally all of us are working up here as much as we can to do everything we need to do. Reasonably, the only coder up here who more hours could be requested out of is me, and I'm currently putting in as many hours as I am able to.)
As well, I feel the need to point out, especially after talking to Aeldra, that I put up about two weeks ago, a request for envoys to send me writeups on problem skillsets so we can see about getting special reports in. To Aeldra's credit, she has been the only envoy thus far to do so, and her writeup does include the removal of problem skills (change Waning to not inflict aeon, remove Succumb and Full), and we have been working with her as the Moondancer envoy to try and push the skillset into a good place if those are removed or drastically changed.
This is all I will say on the matter. If it is not enough, so be it, but all that can really be done is being done, and I would request patience so we can handle this properly.
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So something I've been thinking about a bit, especially with the recent increase in the number of active chemwood players, is how to mitigate damage spam in groups.
I don't necessarily want to just straight nerf damage or aoe (though individual abilities should be looked at), but I want to introduce more counters, and I think the best way is new cool abilities, things you can do actively to save yourself or allies. Right now there's a few things people can do if they're the right class, you can lust someone unleashing a bomb or put paranoia on them, and you can Bolster someone being targeted.
I'd like a few more things along that line. One idea I had was to make pacifism also disable the afflicted's enemy list.
Wondering if anyone else has some thoughts on this.
So something I've been thinking about a bit, especially with the recent increase in the number of active chemwood players, is how to mitigate damage spam in groups.
I don't necessarily want to just straight nerf damage or aoe (though individual abilities should be looked at), but I want to introduce more counters, and I think the best way is new cool abilities, things you can do actively to save yourself or allies. Right now there's a few things people can do if they're the right class, you can lust someone unleashing a bomb or put paranoia on them, and you can Bolster someone being targeted.
I'd like a few more things along that line. One idea I had was to make pacifism also disable the afflicted's enemy list.
Wondering if anyone else has some thoughts on this.
Pacifism stops all passive effects, songs, melds, etc. Sounds good.
EDIT: If your looking for being able to save people would it be too much to make serpent a targeted ability? Cast it on an ally?
I'm a little late to the party, sorry, but I'm overseas, so I have an excuse, I guess. I also felt I needed to weigh in on this because of all the discussion about group combat and succumb.
Just to put it out there, I feel that the original succumb idea, which was based off a concept by Azula and tweaked with numbers by me, was a pretty balanced one. I feel sad that we never really did get that off the ground properly, but well, it's far too late to be crying over spilled milk now - it's been so long since that original report that there's been time for the milk to stain the floor irreparably, and then for a carpenter to replace it. Instead, if Aeldra prefers to rework it entirely, I think that might not be an entirely bad idea after all. I do like reworking stuff, myself.
That said, just to put it out there too, the original idea wasn't really aimed at making succumb be applicable as a group mechanic. I can say that partly because I participated in the brainstorming for it, of course, but also because that was written into the original concept itself: the "execution" of the succumb/wane concept was meant to be a single MD thing, much like the way two SDs can't get each get a shadow of the same person, the original concept locked the waning MD (for the big mana burst) to the succumbing MD.
Original succumb/wane wasn't meant to be a group thing at all - which was why the numbers (for the execution) was that high. It was meant to bring someone from 100 to 0 through exponential scaling, rewarding the MD who could actually pull it off with a pretty much guarantee'd instakill.
The discussion about how two people of other certain combinations can kill in just as fast a time etc, are missing the point a little, I feel, because the mechanic in its conception was not meant to be applicable in group combat. The implementation turned out different from the concept, which happens all the time, of course, and as a result, follow up tweaks are needed. If it is to be group-applicable, naturally, some of the core tenets of the original design (exponential scaling of mana drain to mental afflictions) will have to go. The drains will need to be drastically cut down. The mana drain delivery will need to be re-thought from scratch. Synergy will need to be applied in a different way. Etc, etc. Whatever the new succumb will be, I'm sure Aeldra will find something that's fun and balanced. We'll just have to wait and see.
Do bombs do less damage if more enemies are in the room? If so, maybe that can be a thing.
Alternately, make bombs a channeled effect. Drain one power every two? seconds. Full effect after 4 seconds, partial damage if interrupted by chem loses channel
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
Accountability is necessary.
Deathsong requires eight seconds (and I actually agree is a bit overpowered in a specific group setting and I've suggested nerfs to it as well)
EDIT: To expand on the deathsong thing actually. Its got a set counter in the way of blind but not every class can blind reliably. It can be countered with gust but well thats luck based, I can and have resisted six gusts in a row. Etc etc. I've suggested a blind enchantment or something like that so that every class has a way to counter deathsong, also suggested lowering earache to not be longer than 8 eight seconds because I think its super silly I can set up a death song on someone with a single blank note.
So there are certain situations where I can literally just deathsong people and it goes off due to pure luck of me resisting all the gusts, their ear ache lasting over 9 seconds etc etc.
EDIT: I've also suggested a nerf to reflections for one on one combat after discovering that I'm basically immune to warriors with it.
Like I think inquisition or the bard auric set up is super powerful but I don't think its overpowered. It's got clear warnings and plenty of time to run from it even with a group doing it to you. The way succumb works though is you can literally cast succumb on a target under certain stuns and have the target toadable before that stun ends.
I mean we had people complaining about how a monk could kill them in under 115 seconds with straight up damage, imagine how much these people would be complaining if they had to deal with succumb
Accountability is necessary.
I mean I could quad auric and dchord a target with five bards instantly as well. Or get half a dozen druids to instant rend. (Which is a bit silly and probably should be fixed in someway before it starts to get abused) Issue with succumb is I can make people toad able in a single standard balance with just one person supporting me.
There's no other set up in the game with a one balance instant kill with that few people setting it up. I mean the consensus is that its a fairly overpowered ability, coming from envoys from Hallifax, Serenwilde, everywhere etc etc and its a case of trying to come up with a solution thats good for the Moondancers and good for the game.
When you say 'No ability can kill people in a single stun' you're really being vague and obtuse.
Any and everything can kill you in a single stun, with a varying amount of people. That's what group pvp is.
If you get three nihilist in a room, shieldstun, crux, crunch, demons all do their various things, and suddenly you have a sacrifice within a single stun window.
If you aren't curing mental affs and have 6 on you to put you within insta range within the stun, then you clearly have at least 3 people hitting you. The same death in one stun kill can be accomplished by near anything including three timed lashes with banshees, three double powersink amissios, pretty much any conditional insta.
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get over it
I don't have the exact math but earache is random (if I am not misremembering) from 3-7 seconds while deathsong goes off at 8. So if they start deathsong and earache procs as high as 7s you still will have time to eat earwort, tell clt to gust dsonger, if you do it on a trigger.
It's a great instakill, but it's definitely not overpowered since it's easily stopped with gust, eat earwort, moving from the room etc.
P.S. I never meant to imply that deathsong is overpowered the way succumb is, it's very powerful and a good example how a good group setup will wreck you fast.
P.P.S could also considering increase the tick time if that's a better fix ( to give people more chance to actually be able to get their shield up ).
P.P.P.S want to clarify that am NOT a fan of succumb, mostly because, while it sounded great when it was originally suggested by someone on the forums, I kind of feel the way it turned out is a balance nightmare both for the MD side and for the opponent side. There's a reason you see me being a healer most of the time. I still am always glad to have a conversation on people having a civilized and constructive conversation on alternatives.
Yes a hexen can whammy all 6 of their hexes at you for 1+s per bal but if they fling all 3 sets of whammy you're going to have a window afterwards to sip/sparkle/scroll when the stun ends before they can toadcurse you.
If you have any real, actual concrete concerns you can pass them onto your envoys and I am sure they will bring it up in address through the proper means.
EDIT:
Believe it or not, if you pair any two or three of any two or three given classes you can probably kill someone in a three second stun. Just read up on their skillsets
EDIT*2: And, let's take your scenario for example.
If it's 2v2 with a wiccan and a guardian, if you have a friend with any capability they can sprinkle salt around you and suddenly either of the guardian or wiccan will have to expend 3s to break your shield and you suddenly survive the window. Is it viable longterm? Probably not but you can disengage succumb.
I'm not arguing that succumb is fine, but arguing that it's in a bad place because it has the potential to kill people in a stun in groups is, well, a breach of parity.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Saying easily countered by earwort, moving rooms and gust is also just not pragmatic as a reliable counter. Earwort (see above). Moving rooms (pfifth). Gust (fail once and you likely die, also icewalls). Serious coordination is perhaps an overstatement. One decently timed shieldstun and they die, for example. I wouldn't call that "serious coordination."
However Succumb is clearly too much mana drain, which is the motivation for report. I'm disappointed we couldn't go with the tracking the source of the afflictions, that would've given a solid foundation for balancing it for groups and solo, but alas, coding resources are limited.
Completely agree.
It also would have given a solid foundation for envoying other skills in similar situations or that lack solo ability to build them up to be effective solo without burdening group combat.
Rofl. Unfairly singled out? If players create a new balance concern through an envoy report, it is 100% fair to address the repercussions of that report. Single player balance is never an excuse to throw out multi player balance, and your reasoning is ridiculous. Envoys do not get free passes to break group mechanics to fix their solo mechanics.
I have no idea what succumb is doing mana drain wise or if the numbers are fair or not, but as Shedrin kind of pointed out with the desired solution, drains that stack with generally available afflictions are a fundamentally different balance problem than class specific drains like "if X number of SDs all drain your mana at the same time..." Any argument that X number specific Y class can do the same thing is not relevant. Everyone has mental affs, so anything that scales off of universally available affs has to account for significantly more situations than, for example, the MD counterpart in shadowtwist. Without specific limitations, such as one shadow per target, balance is a nightmare.
TL;DR: Envoys dropped the ball by making a mana drain that scales passively off of everyone. People are allowed to be irritated for exploding under mental aff spam/toad.
Shield is a solo solution, it's always been the counter to burst offenses like hexes. Shield is not a group solution. You guys need better triggers or something.
Keep in mind that 1505 was after they nerfed sleeplocks and also called for removing aeon. For whatever reason the aeon removal was not lumped in to the accepted solution. So in context they were asking for removing some of the strongest parts of their class and get a strong mana drain in return (even if there were serious problems with the numbers for the wane part of it too).
Succumb is a problem in its current, implemented form (as implemented by report 1505). I don't think anybody will deny that. That is also why there is an open report on it, from Serenwilde itself, in Report 1583. And this will be implemented, this time with proper testing and feedback from envoys as it is developed when I can get to it (keeping in mind literally all of us are working up here as much as we can to do everything we need to do. Reasonably, the only coder up here who more hours could be requested out of is me, and I'm currently putting in as many hours as I am able to.)
As well, I feel the need to point out, especially after talking to Aeldra, that I put up about two weeks ago, a request for envoys to send me writeups on problem skillsets so we can see about getting special reports in. To Aeldra's credit, she has been the only envoy thus far to do so, and her writeup does include the removal of problem skills (change Waning to not inflict aeon, remove Succumb and Full), and we have been working with her as the Moondancer envoy to try and push the skillset into a good place if those are removed or drastically changed.
This is all I will say on the matter. If it is not enough, so be it, but all that can really be done is being done, and I would request patience so we can handle this properly.
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I don't necessarily want to just straight nerf damage or aoe (though individual abilities should be looked at), but I want to introduce more counters, and I think the best way is new cool abilities, things you can do actively to save yourself or allies. Right now there's a few things people can do if they're the right class, you can lust someone unleashing a bomb or put paranoia on them, and you can Bolster someone being targeted.
I'd like a few more things along that line. One idea I had was to make pacifism also disable the afflicted's enemy list.
Wondering if anyone else has some thoughts on this.
Pacifism stops all passive effects, songs, melds, etc. Sounds good.
EDIT: If your looking for being able to save people would it be too much to make serpent a targeted ability? Cast it on an ally?
Just to put it out there, I feel that the original succumb idea, which was based off a concept by Azula and tweaked with numbers by me, was a pretty balanced one. I feel sad that we never really did get that off the ground properly, but well, it's far too late to be crying over spilled milk now - it's been so long since that original report that there's been time for the milk to stain the floor irreparably, and then for a carpenter to replace it. Instead, if Aeldra prefers to rework it entirely, I think that might not be an entirely bad idea after all. I do like reworking stuff, myself.
That said, just to put it out there too, the original idea wasn't really aimed at making succumb be applicable as a group mechanic. I can say that partly because I participated in the brainstorming for it, of course, but also because that was written into the original concept itself: the "execution" of the succumb/wane concept was meant to be a single MD thing, much like the way two SDs can't get each get a shadow of the same person, the original concept locked the waning MD (for the big mana burst) to the succumbing MD.
Original succumb/wane wasn't meant to be a group thing at all - which was why the numbers (for the execution) was that high. It was meant to bring someone from 100 to 0 through exponential scaling, rewarding the MD who could actually pull it off with a pretty much guarantee'd instakill.
The discussion about how two people of other certain combinations can kill in just as fast a time etc, are missing the point a little, I feel, because the mechanic in its conception was not meant to be applicable in group combat. The implementation turned out different from the concept, which happens all the time, of course, and as a result, follow up tweaks are needed. If it is to be group-applicable, naturally, some of the core tenets of the original design (exponential scaling of mana drain to mental afflictions) will have to go. The drains will need to be drastically cut down. The mana drain delivery will need to be re-thought from scratch. Synergy will need to be applied in a different way. Etc, etc. Whatever the new succumb will be, I'm sure Aeldra will find something that's fun and balanced. We'll just have to wait and see.
You're welcome, game.
Alternately, make bombs a channeled effect. Drain one power every two? seconds. Full effect after 4 seconds, partial damage if interrupted by chem loses channel