I'm still not getting your logic for Vivet over me, or how it was going to sway people to lynching me.
You might have believed Vivet was shady, but Vivet could have had any role, and I don't believe that at the time you could known for sure that she was Fain, or a different canon Traitor.
Indeed, it wasn't until Vivet's flip that Traitors featuring in the game was confirmed. Until that, all we had was that the rolesheet threat was referred to as Soulless. So I don't believe information on the existence of a Traitor faction would be given in your power, given the wording of the win condition.
Then, while yes, Vivet didn't vote for me, at the time neither did Lehki/Weiwae/Ssaliss iirc. So again, as a vigilante, what made Vivet your priority over them/myself?
Furthermore, Revenge powers are not common, so if you were gung-ho for eliminating traitors, why not go for me in the first place? What did I do on Day 2 that would have made you think I was a trap? As has already been pointed out 100 times, my flip would have provided Town with the best information on canon/noncanon assumptions.
So a vigilante killing Vivet over myself, with the goal of establishing the existence of a Traitor faction and that I would be somehow be associated with it, seems like an unnecessary risk given the information in play at the time.
Now all that said, I -do- believe you killed Vivet, I just don't believe your 'Town' motivations.
@sylandra Claiming vigilante is page 1 of the SK textbook. Covers being caught by watcher/tracker and only the investigator or a lynching can tell otherwise. Claiming vigilante after our only reliable investigator has died is convenient.
Disclaimer: I am biased against Dylara for the canon Traitor argument she has tried to get me lynched over multiple times.
Ugh, horrible phrasing. Should not leave half-written posts for an hour...
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Idk, the one time I played vigilante I tried to off the people I thought needed examination but that I expected would be difficult to get lynched. So I could buy the rationale that town could be convinced to lynch Ushaara on their own, but that Vivet would be a harder sell.
Of course @Dylara should have had no way of knowing Vivet was Fain, so...her phrasing is kind of weird there.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I had no way of knowing Vivet was Fain, I just had a suspicion she was not Town. I took my chances, and apparently got lucky. It did confirm that there were Traitors in the game that were not Town, which makes my suspicion of Ushaara's claim even deeper.
To semi-quote Fyler, Schrodinger's Vigilante?
I am willing to accept whatever the Town decides, I know I am Town, I know that I only win when the Soulless are defeated, I am not a Traitor claiming to be Town like Ushaara is, I am not a secret Soulless hiding in wait. My actions as a Vigilante are limited, so you won't be seeing any night kills from me except for the Vivet kill.
Someone else is killing at night, but it is no longer me, and it will have been (most likely) someone who has already claimed and is hiding behind that claim.
So I'm going to keep up with what I have done every single day, and try and kill the Traitor.
Vote: Ushaara
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I'm not at all against a @Portius or an @Ushaara lynch fyi. I think both give nice delicious info about the game set up. Of their claims, I think Portius's is more unlikely tbh. Slightly paranoid if we try to kill Portius again he will have an immunity though.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
1) When I die. It does not specify type of death so I can only assume death in general. To be clear, I splinter to avoid death so "when I die" might not have been the best description.
2) Yes.
3) I assume no, power doesn't say I do.
Did you get a message saying you splintered last night?
What? No, I wouldn't be posting if I was splintered. I didn't claim stump.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Haha, while it is annoying, I do admire your consistency.
But, that reaction just makes me even more sceptical of your claim. If you had a suspicion for why Vivet wasn't Town, you should be able to articulate why.
She was barely playing. She wouldn't vote for you. Sylandra isn't the only one who notices that some people are more chatty in other roles compared to others.
Again, I accept whatever the Town decides. If I die, and I will flip Town. Kill Ushaara.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Well I'm aware of my own bias against you, so I'm not ready to vote for you yet, and it might be possible you're telling the truth.
I also still believe Portius is the best lynch for today to catch a Soulless.
But come on, we have three people left to claim a role. Are you expecting them all to be canon Traitors too?
Expecting game Traitors to match canon Traitors is a poor assumption.
No, I don't expect anyone else to claim Traitor at this point. I don't even know why you did, I still think you're a Traitor who is trying to bluff that you're not with your unasked for, unprompted claim that threw everything into chaos. It's that or you're a Soulless hiding behind a Traitor claim, which none of us knew there were actually Traitors in the game until Vivet flipped over for sure.
Either way, I really don't trust you in this game.
(as an aside, if you do flip Town later, will send an apology!)
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
But please answer why didn't you go for me if I was the most suspicious, and you only had 1-shot Vig?
Vivet was a 100% gamble. I was a certainty for useful information to Town either way.
Your evasiveness about your power, despite me repeatedly asking you what it was. You had to have something that would make you undesirable to attack at night.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Am I the only one who hasn't revealed? Because some of you are obviously liars.
If I have to I'll reveal but I'd rather not at this point for reasons. Yes I know, vague and suspicious and probably going to earn me some hard pushing but I am definitely not the bad guy you're looking for.
I still think Portius' claim is the shakiest at this point, and I doubt he will have more than one lynch immunity.
Vote Portius
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I have a role that doesn't typically get claimed on...what, aren't We on day three? Of course, that can change, but for My intents and purpose it really doesn't suit. I have shared all that I can with You regarding My powers, so knowing My name should hardly be necessary. If it's something that is sought after, then I am safely investigated, tracked, what-have-You at night.
My stance that placing pressure on Portius, as I fully believe that His role/abilities may have changed now that He has survived the lynch, will not be changing. However, with the warp-speed lynches this town is capable of building up, I'm content to just point My
My stance that placing pressure on Portius, as I fully believe that His role/abilities may have changed now that He has survived the lynch, will not be changing. However, with the warp-speed lynches this town is capable of building up, I'm content to just point My
I'm gonna be honest here and say that I thought the Dame Maeve thing was a joke. My powers have not changed at all. I'm not sure why anyone would think they would?
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Because @Silvanus is an evil genius, and he has a lot of popcorn.
4
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
@Portius out of curiosity which lynch train would you be putting pressure on? Ushaara is the other person getting heat right now, and he's pointed at you and Dylara.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
@Portius out of curiosity which lynch train would you be putting pressure on? Ushaara is the other person getting heat right now, and he's pointed at you and Dylara.
I don't really like to open my mouth unless I have something useful to add and I've worked through all of the likely outcomes, but I can give you my tentative thoughts.
Probably Ushaara. I'm taking Shaddus' report as evidence that Othero is probably town and accepting fluff misinterpretation as a likely explanation for our differences. I'm trying to work through Ushaara's statements and possible value on lynches there to see if I'm just being reactionary and impulsive or if he's actually a reasonable choice. I think he probably is, but I'll need to get back to you.
Weiwae might be an option, too. I know you mentioned yesterday that you were planning on going into some depth on the business with him, but you never actually did. I (and I think probably other people) were waiting to hear your thoughts on that before really digging into anything else. But I also don't particularly want to risk a jailer right now without a good reason, so I'm pretty cautious with him.
Tremula and Lavinya concern me a little bit, but not hugely so. Tremula in particular, because she has a history of claiming no night power (as I think she has now) while actually being scum. See last game. I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them was a canon traitor and wanted to keep quiet to avoid getting the type of heat that Ushaara is getting. Tremula actually stands out on this more to me, because she implied that I'd find her role ironic or amusing in some way. That almost strikes me as an implicit Drocilla claim, although I did consider Isune as another option for personal significance to one or both of us.
So having typed all that out, maybe tentatively pressure Tremula some? But I really don't want a fast lynch train forming on her, either. Because I'm not really suspicious of her so much as there are a few things that I'd pick at if I wasn't focusing more on other people.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I actually made that same connection re: Tremula and Drocilla possibly. Especially with the "Powerless" ability. Made me wonder if it was a collared Enchantress, perhaps.
Total speculation, though. Not sure what you meant regarding my thoughts on Weiwae? Luce did investigate and confirmed he was jailor and Roark, though, and we have confirmation that everyone he jailed at night was, indeed, jailed. So I don't concern myself with him for now because it's highly improbable he's a killer, when he's confirmed as performing a night action every night. I do however think he's made some odd anti-town playing choices, however.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Lessee. I'm in the middle of a lot of stuff today but I'm going to post more in-depth thoughts later. This abrupt almost-lynch of Phoebus does introduce some interesting dynamics though.
I took this to mean that you had thoughts on Weiwae and or Phoebus that you wanted us to discuss and were going to get to them later.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Ahhh yeah, I was trying to make a Venn Diagram of every night who has actions claimed and verified vs not, and use it to determine which people consistently had the most opportunity to kill. Forgot to finish that, got sucked into a new VN. >_>
I did think it interesting that at the time Selenity and Fyler were both in that category however and they latched pretty swiftly on a Phoebus lynch based on no evidence.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Particularly found it odd that Fyler was so trusting of Weiwae's evidence when she had critiqued his play style pretty heavily earlier. Just seemed odd that she would be game to rely on someone whose methods she had expressed doubt about previously.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Particularly found it odd that Fyler was so trusting of Weiwae's evidence when she had critiqued his play style pretty heavily earlier. Just seemed odd that she would be game to rely on someone whose methods she had expressed doubt about previously.
Yeah that "I went along with it because only town would claim someone was Mafia with no evidence" defense from Fyler was extremely paper thin. I mean...so what? Just being town doesn't make someone right. On top of that, Weiwae has a pretty good track record of being wrong this game, so, yeah. There is some logic missing in that course of action.
I still don't think Portius is Maeve, not buying it at all. There is definitely something weird going on with him. And I think if we attempt to lynch him again, it will work, based off of this part of the previously attempted lynch:
You'll note a distinct difference between last game and this game. I can even list them now, as I've been stewing on them for the past few days trying to come up with responses.
#1) Tremula has a history of claiming no night power when She is scum.
Incorrect, it is very rare that I ever go without claiming a power where there is one. Last game was Meta Mafia, wherein I claimed that while I did not have any night powers (a true statement) yet I did have day powers. I fibbed regarding their details, but they were there. In Touhou, I altered the night power that I did have and hid the other, but I did not claim no power. I hate not having a power, and would never claim it otherwise, because of how easy it is to disprove.
#2) I soft-claimed a role that you believe to be Drocilla.
Well, you're right. I've been defencive of Ushaara because I know that canon Traitor =/= guilty. However, there is that pesky cult recruitment mechanic. The first day I considered joining in on a heavy lynch train against Him so He would clear My name, but realised that would come off more scummy than trying to keep Him alive. I am Drocilla, the Plain, and because Silvanus is a sadistic bastard he wrote Me so I have to have to get/do "something" before I get any powers, which I highly suspect is either get a gift from Clangorum or get recruited, neither of which is nice sounding (though Breandryn does sound better than Vivet).
#3) I've been quiet.
I'm a "Traitor". I have an unfun role. I'm trying to find good things to jump on, but between scheduling and having no active source of reliable, personal information I only have the already debatable sources We tear to shreds every day. I have nothing to offer and am a safe lynch, which is why You've seen me quiet all this time and attempt to provide good arguments when the time comes.
However, now Town needs something to go on, both to speed up this day phase and offer us more information to digest. I'll be willing to answer any questions You have about My role, and if it turns out I have to sacrifice Myself for Ushaara to have some mod-confirmed proof, well that is just the way it will have to be.
Well, no, dying wouldn't really do much to clear Ushaara's name now, because you've further complicated the Traitor situation by claiming you explicitly know that you'll unlock an ability in the event of Something happening. Knowing Drocilla, that Something probably isn't anything that's very nice, and it is quite possibly recruitment. In fact, this lends further credibility to the idea that there would be a reason for the Traitor faction to seek out canon Traitors for their ranks, causing them to be dangerous to keep around.
Comments
You might have believed Vivet was shady, but Vivet could have had any role, and I don't believe that at the time you could known for sure that she was Fain, or a different canon Traitor.
Indeed, it wasn't until Vivet's flip that Traitors featuring in the game was confirmed. Until that, all we had was that the rolesheet threat was referred to as Soulless. So I don't believe information on the existence of a Traitor faction would be given in your power, given the wording of the win condition.
Then, while yes, Vivet didn't vote for me, at the time neither did Lehki/Weiwae/Ssaliss iirc. So again, as a vigilante, what made Vivet your priority over them/myself?
Furthermore, Revenge powers are not common, so if you were gung-ho for eliminating traitors, why not go for me in the first place? What did I do on Day 2 that would have made you think I was a trap? As has already been pointed out 100 times, my flip would have provided Town with the best information on canon/noncanon assumptions.
So a vigilante killing Vivet over myself, with the goal of establishing the existence of a Traitor faction and that I would be somehow be associated with it, seems like an unnecessary risk given the information in play at the time.
Now all that said, I -do- believe you killed Vivet, I just don't believe your 'Town' motivations.
@sylandra Claiming vigilante is page 1 of the SK textbook. Covers being caught by watcher/tracker and only the investigator or a lynching can tell otherwise. Claiming vigilante after our only reliable investigator has died is convenient.
Disclaimer: I am biased against Dylara for the canon Traitor argument she has tried to get me lynched over multiple times.
Of course @Dylara should have had no way of knowing Vivet was Fain, so...her phrasing is kind of weird there.
To semi-quote Fyler, Schrodinger's Vigilante?
I am willing to accept whatever the Town decides, I know I am Town, I know that I only win when the Soulless are defeated, I am not a Traitor claiming to be Town like Ushaara is, I am not a secret Soulless hiding in wait. My actions as a Vigilante are limited, so you won't be seeing any night kills from me except for the Vivet kill.
Someone else is killing at night, but it is no longer me, and it will have been (most likely) someone who has already claimed and is hiding behind that claim.
So I'm going to keep up with what I have done every single day, and try and kill the Traitor.
Vote: Ushaara
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
But, that reaction just makes me even more sceptical of your claim. If you had a suspicion for why Vivet wasn't Town, you should be able to articulate why.
-Especially- if you're going to kill someone.
Again, I accept whatever the Town decides. If I die, and I will flip Town. Kill Ushaara.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
I also still believe Portius is the best lynch for today to catch a Soulless.
But come on, we have three people left to claim a role. Are you expecting them all to be canon Traitors too?
Expecting game Traitors to match canon Traitors is a poor assumption.
Vivet was a 100% gamble. I was a certainty for useful information to Town either way.
Either way, I really don't trust you in this game.
(as an aside, if you do flip Town later, will send an apology!)
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Will take some time to look back and try consider things in that light.
If I have to I'll reveal but I'd rather not at this point for reasons. Yes I know, vague and suspicious and probably going to earn me some hard pushing but I am definitely not the bad guy you're looking for.
I still think Portius' claim is the shakiest at this point, and I doubt he will have more than one lynch immunity.
Vote Portius
@Tremula @Lavinya @Yomoigu
Am I missing anyone?
My stance that placing pressure on Portius, as I fully believe that His role/abilities may have changed now that He has survived the lynch, will not be changing. However, with the warp-speed lynches this town is capable of building up, I'm content to just point My
FOS: @Portius
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
I'm gonna be honest here and say that I thought the Dame Maeve thing was a joke. My powers have not changed at all. I'm not sure why anyone would think they would?
I don't really like to open my mouth unless I have something useful to add and I've worked through all of the likely outcomes, but I can give you my tentative thoughts.
Probably Ushaara. I'm taking Shaddus' report as evidence that Othero is probably town and accepting fluff misinterpretation as a likely explanation for our differences. I'm trying to work through Ushaara's statements and possible value on lynches there to see if I'm just being reactionary and impulsive or if he's actually a reasonable choice. I think he probably is, but I'll need to get back to you.
Weiwae might be an option, too. I know you mentioned yesterday that you were planning on going into some depth on the business with him, but you never actually did. I (and I think probably other people) were waiting to hear your thoughts on that before really digging into anything else. But I also don't particularly want to risk a jailer right now without a good reason, so I'm pretty cautious with him.
Tremula and Lavinya concern me a little bit, but not hugely so. Tremula in particular, because she has a history of claiming no night power (as I think she has now) while actually being scum. See last game. I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them was a canon traitor and wanted to keep quiet to avoid getting the type of heat that Ushaara is getting. Tremula actually stands out on this more to me, because she implied that I'd find her role ironic or amusing in some way. That almost strikes me as an implicit Drocilla claim, although I did consider Isune as another option for personal significance to one or both of us.
So having typed all that out, maybe tentatively pressure Tremula some? But I really don't want a fast lynch train forming on her, either. Because I'm not really suspicious of her so much as there are a few things that I'd pick at if I wasn't focusing more on other people.
Total speculation, though. Not sure what you meant regarding my thoughts on Weiwae? Luce did investigate and confirmed he was jailor and Roark, though, and we have confirmation that everyone he jailed at night was, indeed, jailed. So I don't concern myself with him for now because it's highly improbable he's a killer, when he's confirmed as performing a night action every night. I do however think he's made some odd anti-town playing choices, however.
I took this to mean that you had thoughts on Weiwae and or Phoebus that you wanted us to discuss and were going to get to them later.
I did think it interesting that at the time Selenity and Fyler were both in that category however and they latched pretty swiftly on a Phoebus lynch based on no evidence.
I will say that I am of the Triumvirate though.
I still don't think Portius is Maeve, not buying it at all. There is definitely something weird going on with him. And I think if we attempt to lynch him again, it will work, based off of this part of the previously attempted lynch:
The question of course is if other people are on board with that.
#1) Tremula has a history of claiming no night power when She is scum.
Incorrect, it is very rare that I ever go without claiming a power where there is one. Last game was Meta Mafia, wherein I claimed that while I did not have any night powers (a true statement) yet I did have day powers. I fibbed regarding their details, but they were there. In Touhou, I altered the night power that I did have and hid the other, but I did not claim no power. I hate not having a power, and would never claim it otherwise, because of how easy it is to disprove.
#2) I soft-claimed a role that you believe to be Drocilla.
Well, you're right. I've been defencive of Ushaara because I know that canon Traitor =/= guilty. However, there is that pesky cult recruitment mechanic. The first day I considered joining in on a heavy lynch train against Him so He would clear My name, but realised that would come off more scummy than trying to keep Him alive. I am Drocilla, the Plain, and because Silvanus is a sadistic bastard he wrote Me so I have to have to get/do "something" before I get any powers, which I highly suspect is either get a gift from Clangorum or get recruited, neither of which is nice sounding (though Breandryn does sound better than Vivet).
#3) I've been quiet.
I'm a "Traitor". I have an unfun role. I'm trying to find good things to jump on, but between scheduling and having no active source of reliable, personal information I only have the already debatable sources We tear to shreds every day. I have nothing to offer and am a safe lynch, which is why You've seen me quiet all this time and attempt to provide good arguments when the time comes.
However, now Town needs something to go on, both to speed up this day phase and offer us more information to digest. I'll be willing to answer any questions You have about My role, and if it turns out I have to sacrifice Myself for Ushaara to have some mod-confirmed proof, well that is just the way it will have to be.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."