Idea to Equalize Mechanics Across Archetypes

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Comments

  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 513 Fabled
    15 other classes if you count prespecializations as shared(nature/totems/hunting), otherwise 9. Six warrior, two bards, two wiccans, and five other magedruids. That is several.
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 382 Gifted
    I forgot that cities get hunting, I was counting totems. Yep! 
  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 123 Capable
    The way I would go about this is to equalize primaries and secondaries. So wicca for example is mostly good. Night/Moon are the problem. Tertiaries and trades are fine since they're equally available to both. So have a referendum where people within those two communes vote on whether they want to keep night or moon. Keep the one that wins, reflavor as needed. Delete the other.
  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,120 Mythical
    Orael said:
    I don't really want to be the naysayer here, and you're free to discuss it. I just want to make sure expectations are set and prevent people from getting their hopes up to see nothing come of it.

    At this point in time, something this large and involved is really not on the table for consideration or implementation in the near future. It'd be a huge undertaking that would require a ton of effort. 

    Give them what they think they want...

    ...so. Pick one class, run an event for a RL month or three where everyone becomes that class. See if it has the result people think it might and if not it becomes a non-issue.

    Suggestion, some non-weapon using class 'cuz you don't want people claiming it would have worked but didn't have artifact weapons.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,008 Transcendent
    Artifact weapons are pretty bad right now.

    Maybe an exaggeration but you can win easily enough without a single weapon artifact as a warrior or monk. The benefit of having an artifact weapon is pretty much next to nothing.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,918 Transcendent
    Deichtine said:
    Artifact weapons are pretty bad right now.

    Maybe an exaggeration but you can win easily enough without a single weapon artifact as a warrior or monk. The benefit of having an artifact weapon is pretty much next to nothing.
    What did the winner of Death challenge use? Honest question.

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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,546 Transcendent
    I don't know that you can say a warrior will win pretty easily.  You can say that a warrior will notice very little difference (if any) when having weapon runes vs. not.
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  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,069 Creator
    Obviously, we can't rework the entire skill system. We just don't have the resources for such a major project even if we wanted to. But after timequakes, when we focus on mages, it would be a good opportunity for feedback to test some of your hypotheses!
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,136 Transcendent
    Estarra said:
    Obviously, we can't rework the entire skill system. We just don't have the resources for such a major project even if we wanted to. But after timequakes, when we focus on mages, it would be a good opportunity for feedback to test some of your hypotheses!
    The only hypotheses I'm seeing that we'd be able to test following the melder rework is how unmanageable the skillchoice system is given the number of potential class variations and how badly things can go with the reliance on significant player engagement to ensure all of those variations are all actually somewhat equivalent. Seems already well proven by the past decade, let alone what has happened on the forums over the past day or two.

    Given the, very limited, info I've been able to gather it's really looking like another Chemwoods release where the updated primaries will be dropped into the game and players will spend months to years trying to envoy the variations back to usefulness. Like, how long was it between the Chemwood release and weather being usable for wood shamans?

    Mainly because one thing I've seen mentioned is Chemwoods aren't being touched despite the reality that they literally share every secondary and tertiary skill option with their melder variation.
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  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 513 Fabled
    Saran said:
    Like, how long was it between the Chemwood release and weather being usable for wood shamans?
    Isn't it still unusable?
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,136 Transcendent
    Kalnid said:
    Saran said:
    Like, how long was it between the Chemwood release and weather being usable for wood shamans?
    Isn't it still unusable?
    I mean, probably but I was thinking that literal functionality to utilise your imprinted weather pattern which is a pretty iconic and important part of the skill.
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  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 382 Gifted
    Note: Imprint was not part of the original design of the skillset at all.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,136 Transcendent
    I’m conflating that with demense weather mods which are uncapped
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  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,120 Mythical
    Maligorn said:
    Deichtine said:
    Artifact weapons are pretty bad right now.

    Maybe an exaggeration but you can win easily enough without a single weapon artifact as a warrior or monk. The benefit of having an artifact weapon is pretty much next to nothing.
    What did the winner of Death challenge use? Honest question.

    My impression that death almost never if ever goes to a person with a single attack.

    2016 knight
    2015 monk
    2014 knight
    2013 knight

    Was a bit of a pain to find earlier winners so I stopped.

    There's a wide range between, requires some effort to compete and no one should have to have any levels or artifacts to compete. I still think this depends a lot on if there is going to be some ingame way to earn goop.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 192 Capable
    It's awesome that Lusty has exciting new projects like Timequakes, but I feel like there's a limit to how much people will enjoy and participate in conflict mechanics, no matter how cool they are, if combat balancing both between orgs and between classes remains a fraught task. With all the permutations Lusternia has to offer, that is an ongoing concern.

    As admin have pointed out, the suggestion I made is undoable. Whether you liked the idea or thought it was bad, do people have alternative suggestions for simplifying balancing going forward?
    Arix said:
    Tzaraziko died for your spins
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,136 Transcendent
    Devora said:
    It's awesome that Lusty has exciting new projects like Timequakes, but I feel like there's a limit to how much people will enjoy and participate in conflict mechanics, no matter how cool they are, if combat balancing both between orgs and between classes remains a fraught task. With all the permutations Lusternia has to offer, that is an ongoing concern.

    As admin have pointed out, the suggestion I made is undoable. Whether you liked the idea or thought it was bad, do people have alternative suggestions for simplifying balancing going forward?
    Pretty much, prioritising timequakes seems questionable given all the complaints and concerns that have been circulating for a while now.

    It seems like the alternatives are mainly...
    1) Lock classes down to one or two variations to give focus to the balancing or
    2) Start making full use of the ability to have abilities available based on skill choices (such as blacktalon druid skills showing up when you have crow, afaik)

    1 would likely have faster resolution time because it gives up a lot but focuses reporting.
    2 would probably take longer but would, in theory, mean that each variation will have abilities in their three skills that are unique to that combination and ensure it can have whatever is needed for that variation without messing up other variations. (So like Stag Druid Dreamweavers might have some AncestralDreams ability that's available in any of their three skills but if you don't have those three you can't access it.)
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