Do you think we should remove OOC clans from Lusternia?

2

Comments

  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,628 Transcendent
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    Was it an official OOC combat clan? In my experience, OOC combat clans are rarely used for small talk. If it was a personal OOC clan with some combat tips, that may be why you kept getting inane conversations. If that's the issue then it sounds like your past organization could use some...organization when it comes to helping newer players get combat ready.

    Combat is only area of the game that opens avenues where players might have to join an OOC combat clan to get themselves set up easily. Why? Because setting yourself up for combat requires to actually fiddle with OOC elements(your client + reflexes, etc.) and it's easier to make certain resources(basic reflexes, tips, etc.) pooled into an easily accessible repository in-game. It's easier to talk about combat information over an OOC clan channel because you can test things in-game while setting up your client's reflexes.

    I disagree with the notion that a player has to join an OOC clan if they want something other than silence in their organization. If that is the first solution that a player can think of if they desire interaction with other players, then I think that changes things significantly. Personally, I think this is a symptom of a bigger problem: the playerbase's current attitude towards role-play in general.

    Ideally, each player should feel empowered to reach out in search of role-play, no matter how small or otherwise, however, if the majority of players feel they should join an OOC clan to even interact with others then we need to ask ourselves what the cause is.

    What has changed in Lusternia's culture that has caused a shift in attitudes towards role-play?
    What are the current playerbase's views towards role-play?
    What are new players' views towards role-play?
    What are veteran players' views towards role-play?
    What are the pain points?
    Why?

    These are just the questions I can think of right now. I'm sure others can think of more.

    We need to step back and look at the bigger, and undeniably complex picture instead of blaming the problems that we are facing on the existence of OOC clans alone.

    In my experience, the OOC clans I've been a part of have been a welcome foil to the intense NOTHING MATTERS BUT GLOMDORING!!!! MOMMA VIRA WE LUB YOU!!! STEP ON ME!!! e-life I would be stuck in 24/7 if you 'yes' voters had your way. 
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    None of that really provides a justification with why OOC clans are necessary. 

    You can disagree all you like with "the notion that a player has to join an OOC clan if they want something other than silence in their organization", because it seems pretty clear that for some people that's the reality of the game for them.
    My personal experience has been seeing people getting silence on IC channels while people are constantly talking on OOC clans, I have seen discussions on these OOC clans that result in IC actions (Which guess what, isn't against the rules cause all clans are IC if anyone in them decides to do this)

    My experience is that the OOC clan situation has gotten worse, when I was able to easily have fun interacting with people the only OOC clans I was really aware of were the strictly moderated combat ones. 


    So why exactly should someone attracted by the rp focus that this game is sold on, bother to stick around if you can't roleplay with people cause they're too busy memeing in OOC clans to do anything.
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  • Daxi StrongleafDaxi Strongleaf Member Posts: 43 Apprentice
    edited March 26
    The problem in Serenwilde is when people do start having fun on CT in character, they get yelled at by older players for being inane and silly. And now fun people are starting to leave the commune for elsewhere. IC is overpoliced to the point that things that are perfectl fine IC stuff - faelings and furrikin being bouncy and overly excitable - that I think people look to OOC clans to let that out instead now.
  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New ZealandMember Posts: 1,281 Mythical
    edited March 26
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    Saran said:
    Also, just to quote the OOC help file

    Staying IN CHARACTER, and Other Restrictions
    --------------------------------------------
    Always stay in character (IC) on channels - you are playing the role of a person in a magical world called Lusternia. Talk about real life, other muds, or your favorite singer - this should all be done outside the game or, if you must, use TELLS.
    Basically reads as pretty much everything is IC. I remember discussions that came down to things like, if a player chooses to take anything from an OOC clan IC then that's their prerogative, same with say squads or ship channels.
    If you are going to quote something to try to support your argument, please quote it in it's entirety.  The entire part says:

    Staying IN CHARACTER, and Other Restrictions
    --------------------------------------------
    Always stay in character (IC) on channels - you are playing the role of a person in a magical world called Lusternia. Talk about real life, other muds, or your favorite singer - this should all be done outside the game or, if you must, use TELLS.

    Be most careful with shouts - stay in character, watch language rules. Market channel is only for buying and selling: no chatting please. Newbie channel is for questions and answers about how to play the game: no chatting please. Most other channels have their own rules, but are generally more tolerant of chatting and general conversation.


    I have bolded/italiced the relevant sentence. To me, this reads as said channels being, as said by others, self-policed and that if they want to have relaxed rules, they are entitled to do so.  Once again, expecting admins/volunteers to police the umpteen clans already in existence is unreasonable and impractical to say the very least - what do you want them to do?  Disband all existing clans, issuing refunds and start requiring people to apply for approval for a clan?
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    edited March 26
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    Kagato said:
    Saran said:
    Also, just to quote the OOC help file

    Staying IN CHARACTER, and Other Restrictions
    --------------------------------------------
    Always stay in character (IC) on channels - you are playing the role of a person in a magical world called Lusternia. Talk about real life, other muds, or your favorite singer - this should all be done outside the game or, if you must, use TELLS.
    Basically reads as pretty much everything is IC. I remember discussions that came down to things like, if a player chooses to take anything from an OOC clan IC then that's their prerogative, same with say squads or ship channels.
    If you are going to quote something to try to support your argument, please quote it in it's entirety.  The entire part says:

    Staying IN CHARACTER, and Other Restrictions
    --------------------------------------------
    Always stay in character (IC) on channels - you are playing the role of a person in a magical world called Lusternia. Talk about real life, other muds, or your favorite singer - this should all be done outside the game or, if you must, use TELLS.

    Be most careful with shouts - stay in character, watch language rules. Market channel is only for buying and selling: no chatting please. Newbie channel is for questions and answers about how to play the game: no chatting please. Most other channels have their own rules, but are generally more tolerant of chatting and general conversation.


    I have bolded/italiced the relevant sentence. To me, this reads as said channels being, as said by others, self-policed and that if they want to have relaxed rules, they are entitled to do so.  Once again, expecting admins/volunteers to police the umpteen clans already in existence is unreasonable and impractical to say the very least - what do you want them to do?  Disband all existing clans, issuing refunds and start requiring people to apply for approval for a clan?
    The bolded part pretty clearly, within the context of the paragraph, indicates that different channels have different rules for what purposes they can be used for, but that doesn't mean players can violate "Always stay in character (IC) on channels".

    I.E it's indicating that say... a clan might have rules that you're only allowed to use it for call outs in combat so you shouldn't be chatting on it. Arguably both places the rule shows up indicates that even newbie should be somewhat IC. There's also languagerules but that seems to mostly cover things like swearing which are up to individual clans.



    edit: Realistically, as written it's a pretty clear rule, if it's a channel it's IC. If you have to use OOC go to tells or elsewhere. Trying to manipulate a mention into how tolerant different channels might be of "chatting and general conversation" into justification for OOC is reaching.
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    The problem in Serenwilde is when people do start having fun on CT in character, they get yelled at by older players for being inane and silly. And now fun people are starting to leave the commune for elsewhere. IC is overpoliced to the point that things that are perfectl fine IC stuff - faelings and furrikin being bouncy and overly excitable - that I think people look to OOC clans to let that out instead now.
    I mean, if someone is taking that behaviour to ooc then it doesn't really sound like a character they're playing...

    If you want to get into a debate about whether or not the inane antics of the "snugglewilders" are really fitting within the context of serenwilde that's another very different thread and one I suggest anyone thinking it is should really take a long hard look at the history and lore of the forest. 
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  • CoralineCoraline Member Posts: 362 Gifted
    edited March 26
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    Saran said:
    The problem in Serenwilde is when people do start having fun on CT in character, they get yelled at by older players for being inane and silly. And now fun people are starting to leave the commune for elsewhere. IC is overpoliced to the point that things that are perfectl fine IC stuff - faelings and furrikin being bouncy and overly excitable - that I think people look to OOC clans to let that out instead now.
    I mean, if someone is taking that behaviour to ooc then it doesn't really sound like a character they're playing...

    If you want to get into a debate about whether or not the inane antics of the "snugglewilders" are really fitting within the context of serenwilde that's another very different thread and one I suggest anyone thinking it is should really take a long hard look at the history and lore of the forest. 
    Sorry, didn't realize that inviting people to come to a Herofete over CT was "destroying the history and lore of the forest". I'm glad I left

    2019/05/29 01:36:00 - The squad known as 'Seriously Choco-squid this time' supporting Gaudiguch generated 1 power
  • 11 Member Posts: 2 Inept
    edited March 26
    Saran said:
    None of that really provides a justification with why OOC clans are necessary. 

    You can disagree all you like with "the notion that a player has to join an OOC clan if they want something other than silence in their organization", because it seems pretty clear that for some people that's the reality of the game for them.
    My personal experience has been seeing people getting silence on IC channels while people are constantly talking on OOC clans, I have seen discussions on these OOC clans that result in IC actions (Which guess what, isn't against the rules cause all clans are IC if anyone in them decides to do this)

    My experience is that the OOC clan situation has gotten worse, when I was able to easily have fun interacting with people the only OOC clans I was really aware of were the strictly moderated combat ones. 


    So why exactly should someone attracted by the rp focus that this game is sold on, bother to stick around if you can't roleplay with people cause they're too busy memeing in OOC clans to do anything.
     For someone who is super anti OOC clans you seem to be part of one too many.

    Edit: 

    Furthermore, your chief rp complaints tend to lean towards channels. Do you exclusively start rp by talking on IC channels only? Have you actually tried approaching people? 
  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 397 Expert
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    Saran said:

    If you want to get into a debate about whether or not the inane antics of the "snugglewilders" are really fitting within the context of serenwilde that's another very different thread and one I suggest anyone thinking it is should really take a long hard look at the history and lore of the forest. 

    Does it matter?

    Surely you should encourage all sorts, not just those that fit your definition of what you expect to find.

    History and lore of the forest is just the wallpaper that you RP in front of. 

    If someone wants to snuggle, snuggle away. You don't have to. If someone wants to mutter all cities are evil, mutter away. You don't have to.

    Live and let live. It takes all sorts to make the world go round.

    I am always amazed by the posts asking for rewards for good RP. Really? Like it is not a reward in itself? Good RP is my minimum expectation from other people. And so many of you live up to that expectation. Whether it is a tell, a simple emote, or a half page of text that makes me wish I was not on my phone. And the greater the difference between people, the more avenues for that. 
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 842 Transcendent
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    1 said:
    Saran said:
    None of that really provides a justification with why OOC clans are necessary. 

    You can disagree all you like with "the notion that a player has to join an OOC clan if they want something other than silence in their organization", because it seems pretty clear that for some people that's the reality of the game for them.
    My personal experience has been seeing people getting silence on IC channels while people are constantly talking on OOC clans, I have seen discussions on these OOC clans that result in IC actions (Which guess what, isn't against the rules cause all clans are IC if anyone in them decides to do this)

    My experience is that the OOC clan situation has gotten worse, when I was able to easily have fun interacting with people the only OOC clans I was really aware of were the strictly moderated combat ones. 


    So why exactly should someone attracted by the rp focus that this game is sold on, bother to stick around if you can't roleplay with people cause they're too busy memeing in OOC clans to do anything.
     For someone who is super anti OOC clans you seem to be part of one too many.

    Edit: 

    Furthermore, your chief rp complaints tend to lean towards channels. Do you exclusively start rp by talking on IC channels only? Have you actually tried approaching people? 
    This really doesn't need to be made personal, and definitely not about Serenwilde. The question is: Are the ooc clans actually a good experience for new players, do they really encourage better/worse rp, and are the benefits for them(the chat clans, particularly) outweighing the problems?
  • LycidasLycidas Member Posts: 555 Master
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    We've noticed that it is a tension breaker, and as for why OOC clans are better for the game? Because if they had to go to another client/app they'd be tabbed out constantly. At least with OOC clans they can chat and still play. I've seen plenty who can balance conversations, OOC and IC, and have done it myself. Either way, if we're quoting the help files for rulings, then there's no way those snippets can be held against OOC clans, unless admins have been somehow blinded for over ten years, and considering Ianir often sat in Glom's OOC clan?
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 842 Transcendent
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    Lycidas said:
    We've noticed that it is a tension breaker, and as for why OOC clans are better for the game? Because if they had to go to another client/app they'd be tabbed out constantly. At least with OOC clans they can chat and still play. I've seen plenty who can balance conversations, OOC and IC, and have done it myself. Either way, if we're quoting the help files for rulings, then there's no way those snippets can be held against OOC clans, unless admins have been somehow blinded for over ten years, and considering Ianir often sat in Glom's OOC clan?
    Again, still more personal and accusatory than it needs to be. Of course the admin are aware of it, I give them credit for having eyes and being able to read. The reason to quote those snippets would be to say, "why don't we enforce the existing rulings more strictly than we are?"

    As for the tabbing, that's still saying that people would rather not interact in the game at all. That's a problem, and I believe the ooc clans encourage more of it rather than simply filling a need.
  • 11 Member Posts: 2 Inept
    Kethaera said:
    1 said:
    Saran said:
    None of that really provides a justification with why OOC clans are necessary. 

    You can disagree all you like with "the notion that a player has to join an OOC clan if they want something other than silence in their organization", because it seems pretty clear that for some people that's the reality of the game for them.
    My personal experience has been seeing people getting silence on IC channels while people are constantly talking on OOC clans, I have seen discussions on these OOC clans that result in IC actions (Which guess what, isn't against the rules cause all clans are IC if anyone in them decides to do this)

    My experience is that the OOC clan situation has gotten worse, when I was able to easily have fun interacting with people the only OOC clans I was really aware of were the strictly moderated combat ones. 


    So why exactly should someone attracted by the rp focus that this game is sold on, bother to stick around if you can't roleplay with people cause they're too busy memeing in OOC clans to do anything.
     For someone who is super anti OOC clans you seem to be part of one too many.

    Edit: 

    Furthermore, your chief rp complaints tend to lean towards channels. Do you exclusively start rp by talking on IC channels only? Have you actually tried approaching people? 
    This really doesn't need to be made personal, and definitely not about Serenwilde. The question is: Are the ooc clans actually a good experience for new players, do they really encourage better/worse rp, and are the benefits for them(the chat clans, particularly) outweighing the problems?
    Saran was pointing out that his personal experiences have lead to his dislike for OOC clans. I was pointing out a possible flaw in his anecdotes. Did I mention Serenwilde? I triple checkex to be sure but I'm positive I did not mention Serenwilde in my response to him.

    Part of the problem is that some of participants in the discussion are oversimplifying things into

    OOC clan = bad; must delete

    Again. The issue is only a symptom of a bigger problem regarding the playerbases's attitudes towards roleplay - this needs to be discussed if we truly want to address the problem.

    If anyone else believes that IC channels are the main platform for initiating RP, then that needs to be addressed especially if new players think that way.
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 842 Transcendent
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    1 said:

    Saran was pointing out that his personal experiences have lead to his dislike for OOC clans. I was pointing out a possible flaw in his anecdotes. Did I mention Serenwilde? I triple checkex to be sure but I'm positive I did not mention Serenwilde in my response to him.

    Part of the problem is that some of participants in the discussion are oversimplifying things into

    OOC clan = bad; must delete

    Yes, I think you are oversimplifying the argument by stating it this way, as those of us opposed to them have given many explicit examples and arguments as to the harm they cause, none of which you have addressed here.


    Again. The issue is only a symptom of a bigger problem regarding the playerbases's attitudes towards roleplay - this needs to be discussed if we truly want to address the problem.

    If anyone else believes that IC channels are the main platform for initiating RP, then that needs to be addressed especially if new players think that way.

    I'm really not sure what you mean by this at all. No, IC channels are not necessarily the main platform for initiating RP, but they are one of the platforms by which it occurs. I don't see why this even needs to be addressed, to new or old players. If you remove an OOC platform for communication, but communication is still continuing in game, then if my assumptions both hold, that communication will be IC communication. No one said that roleplay is impossible in any form while the clans exist- this is why it is far more helpful to address the arguments made rather than redirecting the conversation to different topics.

  • InnonInnon Member Posts: 152 Capable
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    I honestly had a hard time with saying no, and I probably utilize OOC clans too often.  Some of the communication could have been done completely ICly. I am taking the lazy way out leaning on OOC clans. I also know the rise of dischord servers makes ooc clans a little redundant. I connect with my org's players through OOC because IC Innon may have limitations. OOC is it's own can of worms for sure. I do think Lusternia has went away from the amazing immersion it had. I remember over 10+ years ago you really had to study lore and develop your character to increase your guild rank. Both Nihilist and Celestines were amazing for this. I don't think it is necessarily OOC clans fault, but rather a shift in player mentality. Let's not dredge up guild changes. Maybe as a playerbase we need to get back to RP for guild rank with some tasks and keep city rank to mechanical takes such as you helped in a revolt?
  • CoralineCoraline Member Posts: 362 Gifted
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    My previous comment was off-topic. But I couldn't just sit there and get slandered by someone who wasn't even online then and is passing judgement without being very informed about what actually happened. Regardless, it was an off-topic comment and I apologize.

    Back to the topic, I remember as a newbie on my second day I asked a question about mechanics (that was very OOC) on CT, and Vefai added me to the Seren OOC clan and helpfully informed me that CT should remain IC and such questions can be asked in the clan. I don't know how these things can be done without OOC clans. I realize most of you have been players for years, but others like me are not. Not everyone starts off knowing the full lore and history, and the mechanics. 

    But I do agree that things that can be discussed ICly should not be discussed in the clans (although I have no idea how someone can enforce that).
    2019/05/29 01:36:00 - The squad known as 'Seriously Choco-squid this time' supporting Gaudiguch generated 1 power
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 842 Transcendent
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    Coraline said:
    My previous comment was off-topic. But I couldn't just sit there and get slandered by someone who wasn't even online then and is passing judgement without being very informed about what actually happened. Regardless, it was an off-topic comment and I apologize.

    Back to the topic, I remember as a newbie on my second day I asked a question about mechanics (that was very OOC) on CT, and Vefai added me to the Seren OOC clan and helpfully informed me that CT should remain IC and such questions can be asked in the clan. I don't know how these things can be done without OOC clans. I realize most of you have been players for years, but others like me are not. Not everyone starts off knowing the full lore and history, and the mechanics. 

    But I do agree that things that can be discussed ICly should not be discussed in the clans (although I have no idea how someone can enforce that).
    There may a need for ooc clans for that reason, I think the arguments about it have been better than those made for allowing any ooc clans for any reason.

    Outside enforcement is best, imo, but if nothing else, I hope people will give some thought to keeping conversations that could IC, to IC channels.
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 842 Transcendent
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    Esoneyuna said:
    I will just list my reasons why I think OOC Clans also have positive sides

    1. OOC clans allow me to ask things about game related things, or even org related things that I can not ask ICly. Like if I am working on an org mob I can ask hey does this description look good. Or what do you think about buying an npc for xyz.  Or even what is the syntax for this thing.

    2. It is a good place to quickly test if a fellow player is having issues with a rather harsh stance my character might have in game. In fact in a recent interaction with someone they expressed concern that I was angry at them OOCly. I hope I assured them I am not and that my entire interaction with them was characterbuilding.

    3. Sometimes it allows me to tell someone hey I would love to rp with you but I am about to leave for work, sleep, other things. Rain check. Because even though I can icly brush them off, some people just live at a horrible timezone for interacting with and it might seem I am avoiding them, so that tad of extra ooc info can tell them I am actually interested in interacting with them. It also can be used to quickly discuss OOC shedules.

    4. Sometimes just oocly talking about inane things like tv, other games, things that trouble us etc can be a good way to build an ooc community of people that genuinly like eachother even though their characters don't. Boosting a wish to interact ICly with them. And while yes you can say go to discord or some such, yeah no, I am focused on my game screen, I don't use 2 screens right now. Also I do not like throwing around my RL info as much as I used to. So having it in my mudlet screen works.
    I think you make excellent points here.

    I will say, on 2, I don't see any reason why this couldn't be done via tells/messages, as most of the time it would only be done between two people. Same with 3. 

    Number 4, I've seen that go both ways, where the way we feel about someone oocly(expressed through clans) negatively impacts how we interact with them in the game. Whether or not that's fair from a character perspective - I don't know, it depends on the circumstances. Not everyone will like everyone else, and in some cases taking it ooc only makes the problem worse and more personal. 

    The last part, about real life info, I don't have a good answer for. I've had to change my discord name to address this exact problem, between various communities, game-wise and real life. So that's fair.

    Seriously, those of you in favor of the ooc clans should have made this case from the beginning. 
  • CoralineCoraline Member Posts: 362 Gifted
    edited March 28
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    Edit: it was a joke! Stop downvoting me pls :'(
    Post edited by Coraline on
    2019/05/29 01:36:00 - The squad known as 'Seriously Choco-squid this time' supporting Gaudiguch generated 1 power
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,139 Transcendent
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    Let the half siamese, half kitsune sit around in the aetherplex and rawr to herself and passersby. Emoting and random idiocy shouldn't be done on the org aether. Inane and silly things shouldn't be done on the org aether either .
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EsoneyunaEsoneyuna Member Posts: 135 Adept
    edited March 26
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    Kethaera said:
    Esoneyuna said:
    I will just list my reasons why I think OOC Clans also have positive sides

    1. OOC clans allow me to ask things about game related things, or even org related things that I can not ask ICly. Like if I am working on an org mob I can ask hey does this description look good. Or what do you think about buying an npc for xyz.  Or even what is the syntax for this thing.

    2. It is a good place to quickly test if a fellow player is having issues with a rather harsh stance my character might have in game. In fact in a recent interaction with someone they expressed concern that I was angry at them OOCly. I hope I assured them I am not and that my entire interaction with them was characterbuilding.

    3. Sometimes it allows me to tell someone hey I would love to rp with you but I am about to leave for work, sleep, other things. Rain check. Because even though I can icly brush them off, some people just live at a horrible timezone for interacting with and it might seem I am avoiding them, so that tad of extra ooc info can tell them I am actually interested in interacting with them. It also can be used to quickly discuss OOC shedules.

    4. Sometimes just oocly talking about inane things like tv, other games, things that trouble us etc can be a good way to build an ooc community of people that genuinly like eachother even though their characters don't. Boosting a wish to interact ICly with them. And while yes you can say go to discord or some such, yeah no, I am focused on my game screen, I don't use 2 screens right now. Also I do not like throwing around my RL info as much as I used to. So having it in my mudlet screen works.
    I think you make excellent points here.

    I will say, on 2, I don't see any reason why this couldn't be done via tells/messages, as most of the time it would only be done between two people. Same with 3. 

    Number 4, I've seen that go both ways, where the way we feel about someone oocly(expressed through clans) negatively impacts how we interact with them in the game. Whether or not that's fair from a character perspective - I don't know, it depends on the circumstances. Not everyone will like everyone else, and in some cases taking it ooc only makes the problem worse and more personal. 

    The last part, about real life info, I don't have a good answer for. I've had to change my discord name to address this exact problem, between various communities, game-wise and real life. So that's fair.

    Seriously, those of you in favor of the ooc clans should have made this case from the beginning. 
    2 and 3 has the benefit that the people in the clan opted in on this. I am always unsure about sending OOC tells to people I don't know well enough (in fact I only feel comfortable doing this with 2 people in game). Also I tried to restrict my examples. However I also had a third party react to comments about RP events realizing I was in RL emotional distress before I admitted that to myself and sending me ooc tells to help me out of a downwards spiral.

    4 is always a double edged sword, but in my personal experience it helps more than it detracts. In fact without a certain OOC clan I would probably not be playing anymore..well ok maybe this is more a point against ooc clans.
  • CoralineCoraline Member Posts: 362 Gifted
    edited March 26
    No, clans should not be removed and OOC policies stay moot
    Oh dang you were being serious.

    Well, someone should tell her and see if that works instead of public shaming.

    Edit: there's a difference between emoting/insanity in the org either and someone ICly having fun and joking around. The latter doesn't really hurt anyone, and if we start policing it, where do we stop? 

    Unless there's a whole theme to the org, which in the case of Serenwilde is a lot of mixed opinions and no one will tell you what this supposed "history" is but you're expected to know it. 

    This is my opinion, some people might disagree, but disagreements shouldn't resort to publicly shaming and acting like the chat police. Most people understand when you send them a tell 
    2019/05/29 01:36:00 - The squad known as 'Seriously Choco-squid this time' supporting Gaudiguch generated 1 power
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    edited March 26
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    Kistan said:
    Saran said:

    If you want to get into a debate about whether or not the inane antics of the "snugglewilders" are really fitting within the context of serenwilde that's another very different thread and one I suggest anyone thinking it is should really take a long hard look at the history and lore of the forest. 

    Does it matter?

    Surely you should encourage all sorts, not just those that fit your definition of what you expect to find.

    History and lore of the forest is just the wallpaper that you RP in front of. 

    If someone wants to snuggle, snuggle away. You don't have to. If someone wants to mutter all cities are evil, mutter away. You don't have to.

    Live and let live. It takes all sorts to make the world go round.

    I am always amazed by the posts asking for rewards for good RP. Really? Like it is not a reward in itself? Good RP is my minimum expectation from other people. And so many of you live up to that expectation. Whether it is a tell, a simple emote, or a half page of text that makes me wish I was not on my phone. And the greater the difference between people, the more avenues for that. 
    This is pretty off-topic, but my experience with the Snugglewilders vs Serenwilders is that the people on the more snuggly side are more likely to tell people they don't belong in Serenwilde. Like within the last week I remember someone talking about a bloodthirsty character concept and being told that it probably doesn't belong in serenwilde (despite you know... all three guilds having a place for those people)
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed

    1 said:
    Kethaera said:
    1 said:
    Saran said:
    None of that really provides a justification with why OOC clans are necessary. 

    You can disagree all you like with "the notion that a player has to join an OOC clan if they want something other than silence in their organization", because it seems pretty clear that for some people that's the reality of the game for them. 
    My personal experience has been seeing people getting silence on IC channels while people are constantly talking on OOC clans, I have seen discussions on these OOC clans that result in IC actions (Which guess what, isn't against the rules cause all clans are IC if anyone in them decides to do this)

    My experience is that the OOC clan situation has gotten worse, when I was able to easily have fun interacting with people the only OOC clans I was really aware of were the strictly moderated combat ones. 


    So why exactly should someone attracted by the rp focus that this game is sold on, bother to stick around if you can't roleplay with people cause they're too busy memeing in OOC clans to do anything.
     For someone who is super anti OOC clans you seem to be part of one too many.

    Edit: 

    Furthermore, your chief rp complaints tend to lean towards channels. Do you exclusively start rp by talking on IC channels only? Have you actually tried approaching people? 
    This really doesn't need to be made personal, and definitely not about Serenwilde. The question is: Are the ooc clans actually a good experience for new players, do they really encourage better/worse rp, and are the benefits for them(the chat clans, particularly) outweighing the problems?
    Saran was pointing out that his personal experiences have lead to his dislike for OOC clans. I was pointing out a possible flaw in his anecdotes. Did I mention Serenwilde? I triple checkex to be sure but I'm positive I did not mention Serenwilde in my response to him.

    Part of the problem is that some of participants in the discussion are oversimplifying things into

    OOC clan = bad; must delete

    Again. The issue is only a symptom of a bigger problem regarding the playerbases's attitudes towards roleplay - this needs to be discussed if we truly want to address the problem.

    If anyone else believes that IC channels are the main platform for initiating RP, then that needs to be addressed especially if new players think that way.
    Actually, what you were doing was ignoring earlier posts to justify a comment about me.

    I.e the part where I very much felt that I didn't have a choice in the matter with these OOC clans because either I am told I won't be able to receive support for learning combat (despite there being a separate dedicated combat clan for this) or because not being part likely means largely being cut out of conversations about the future of whatever guild/org/etc the clan is connected to.

    In fact, taking your last sentence, this provide another reason being part of these clans is necessary if people think IC mediums are not the main platform for initiating RP..
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,179 Transcendent
    edited March 27
    Yes, clans should be removed and OOC policies changed
    Esoneyuna said:
    I will just list my reasons why I think OOC Clans also have positive sides

    1. OOC clans allow me to ask things about game related things, or even org related things that I can not ask ICly. Like if I am working on an org mob I can ask hey does this description look good. Or what do you think about buying an npc for xyz.  Or even what is the syntax for this thing.

    Planning things maybe? I've often found the IG clans for that sort of thing are really ineffective. Syntax seems like it could be newbie or a dedicated combat aether thing.

    2. It is a good place to quickly test if a fellow player is having issues with a rather harsh stance my character might have in game. In fact in a recent interaction with someone they expressed concern that I was angry at them OOCly. I hope I assured them I am not and that my entire interaction with them was characterbuilding.

    3. Sometimes it allows me to tell someone hey I would love to rp with you but I am about to leave for work, sleep, other things. Rain check. Because even though I can icly brush them off, some people just live at a horrible timezone for interacting with and it might seem I am avoiding them, so that tad of extra ooc info can tell them I am actually interested in interacting with them. It also can be used to quickly discuss OOC shedules.

    Both of these are more OOC tells things for me, especially where you're communicating with a single player. One game I played even had a specific OOC variant for tells for this. (You'd like ooc <player> <message> which enabled players to block them if they wanted)

    4. Sometimes just oocly talking about inane things like tv, other games, things that trouble us etc can be a good way to build an ooc community of people that genuinly like eachother even though their characters don't. Boosting a wish to interact ICly with them. And while yes you can say go to discord or some such, yeah no, I am focused on my game screen, I don't use 2 screens right now. Also I do not like throwing around my RL info as much as I used to. So having it in my mudlet screen works.

    I don't really agree with this mostly because I don't think the countless OOC clans out there are really achieve this on a meaningful level and instead we've seen how badly they can go a few years back along with the negative impacts it can cause.

    I also think that part of the root concern with OOC clans is that people are really bad at separating IC from OOC already, even just focusing on IC when OOC chatter is happening. So when it all happens within the same screen it really just makes it worse.
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