Population Question and Issues.

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  • KioKio Member Posts: 992 Mythical
    Everiine said:
    If Moon and Hart aren't as visible in Serenwilde as they could be, that is the players' fault. I have one pamphlet on White Hart that I begged for out of the Hartstone library, and nothing on Moon. Not for like of trying, though, as I continue to pester people in both guilds for information.
    In Glom, Crow and Night are pretty much every-day talk.  In fact, most people will work them into just about everything, being from a pep-talk on CT or a Penumbra.  It really is up to the players to dictate where the RP of an org goes and how it is perpetuated.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,981 Transcendent
    In Serenwilde, on the other hand, no one talks about them. I have gathered one pamphlet on White Hart that I begged to see in the Hartstone library. I have tried to get more information about Moon from the MDs, and gotten nothing.

    So, what Kio said. It's up to the players to perpetuate the RP, and right now, we're not.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,432 Transcendent
    The issues with Serenwilde's rp are ultimately a very long and detailed thread of their own. They might have a bearing on these issues for Serenwilde, but for those outside it they're not the most relevant tangents here. It might be better to move them there because... well I feel that I could write pages on the issues there and it detracts from the issue that ultimately we have a population issue.



    Though I would like to note that you have raised again that the iron realms are heavily dependent on its players for maintaining the game.
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent
    Everiine said:
    I have tried to get more information about Moon from the MDs, and gotten nothing.

    Having formerly played in the MDs, I can say that part of the issue is that there's really nothing set in stone. "Mother Moon has many faces" may be about as in-depth as you can expect to get, and it is exactly this sort of amorphous explanation that a lot of the old leaders of yore used to help levy support for themselves more than build up a more specific and distinct lore.

    I also believe that Serenwilde players have had an unfortunate history with what they try to build up or what they believe not panning out, even when it was allegedly sourced from a Pantheon member (No, Elfenehoala did not awaken Night, etc.) or proven to be totally incorrect due to a lack of good input, so mix that into the environment and I'm sure you'll see MDs really hesitant to say anything with actual authority.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,432 Transcendent
    Vivet said:
    Everiine said:
    I have tried to get more information about Moon from the MDs, and gotten nothing.

    Having formerly played in the MDs, I can say that part of the issue is that there's really nothing set in stone. "Mother Moon has many faces" may be about as in-depth as you can expect to get, and it is exactly this sort of amorphous explanation that a lot of the old leaders of yore used to help levy support for themselves more than build up a more specific and distinct lore.

    I also believe that Serenwilde players have had an unfortunate history with what they try to build up or what they believe not panning out, even when it was allegedly sourced from a Pantheon member (No, Elfenehoala did not awaken Night, etc.) or proven to be totally incorrect due to a lack of good input, so mix that into the environment and I'm sure you'll see MDs really hesitant to say anything with actual authority.

    agreed, the Hartstone tend to have something similar and I'd be interested to see what's in this pamphlet. But it's for another thread.
  • DaemDaem Member Posts: 95 Capable
    edited August 2013
    The Shadowdancers have their own liturgies to help give a focus (I really don't know who wrote the initial ones) and we create more if we have a situation for it. From these liturgies each has a message, you are fear, vengeance is subtle, etc. I've only been in the Moondancers once a long time ago, and never been in the hartstone. Do they have something like this? I find it really helped me understand the Shadowdancers when I was new, and the fact that I could interpret things however I liked really helped to spread the mystery of the Shadowdancers because even though I knew the same tenets I didn't know how So and So interpreted them after thinking about them for 50 years.
  • ZouviqilZouviqil Queen of Uberjerkiness Member Posts: 976 Transcendent
    Daem said:
    The Shadowdancers have their own liturgies to help give a focus (I really don't know who wrote the initial ones) and we create more if we have a situation for it. From these liturgies each has a message, you are fear, vengeance is subtle, etc. I've only been in the Moondancers once a long time ago, and never been in the hartstone. Do they have something like this? I find it really helped me understand the Shadowdancers when I was new, and the fact that I could interpret things however I liked really helped to spread the mystery of the Shadowdancers because even though I knew the same tenets I didn't know how So and So interpreted them after thinking about them for 50 years.
    At least currently, anything that smells of ritual, sermon, or liturgy is not done. There is a book of rituals that has been distributed, but otherwise, they're... not really done. I myself was really looking forward to getting into rituals, but they require interest from people to get done. And, you know, actual people. I remember one time I was doing a ritual, another Seren came into the room (after the ritual had been announced for the last hour) and killed something while I was mid ritual, and started extracting poison from it. Then, after three minutes more into the ritual, they decide to ask what's going on. Another time, someone was holding a ritual and was told to come along, and then they mischanned onto CT that they didn't understand what the point was of attending some "dumb ritual shit" when he's in a different guild.

    There had been a time, in my experience already, more rituals were done. But the population was higher then, and the type of gamers present were more varied and inclined for it.
  • DaemDaem Member Posts: 95 Capable
    Zouviqil said:
    Daem said:
    The Shadowdancers have their own liturgies to help give a focus (I really don't know who wrote the initial ones) and we create more if we have a situation for it. From these liturgies each has a message, you are fear, vengeance is subtle, etc. I've only been in the Moondancers once a long time ago, and never been in the hartstone. Do they have something like this? I find it really helped me understand the Shadowdancers when I was new, and the fact that I could interpret things however I liked really helped to spread the mystery of the Shadowdancers because even though I knew the same tenets I didn't know how So and So interpreted them after thinking about them for 50 years.
    At least currently, anything that smells of ritual, sermon, or liturgy is not done. There is a book of rituals that has been distributed, but otherwise, they're... not really done. I myself was really looking forward to getting into rituals, but they require interest from people to get done. And, you know, actual people. I remember one time I was doing a ritual, another Seren came into the room (after the ritual had been announced for the last hour) and killed something while I was mid ritual, and started extracting poison from it. Then, after three minutes more into the ritual, they decide to ask what's going on. Another time, someone was holding a ritual and was told to come along, and then they mischanned onto CT that they didn't understand what the point was of attending some "dumb ritual shit" when he's in a different guild.

    There had been a time, in my experience already, more rituals were done. But the population was higher then, and the type of gamers present were more varied and inclined for it.
    I've run into that myself and felt like I've held some people hostage doing rituals they don't really care about. With a lower population instead I've started to do rituals one on one with people or small groups who seem interested and create a meaningful interactions. Usually this is prompted by them asking about something. I give them a task, and then perform a ritual around what I think they should have learned from it. I do this mostly when people ask about me about Viravain, but have also applied it to Night in the past. I wish I had more time to do these things.

    The coolest part of being a Wiccan is the ritual part and how many ways you can do it. Just have to find the right audience, and correct place to do it where you won't get interrupted. I'm trying to develop a branch of the Shadowdancer that branches out and performs rituals for those outside of Glomdoring, but eh, my time has been keeping me from doing much meaningful stuff. :(
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    edited August 2013
    By the by, if you have a Serenwilder character and are interested in the problems that specifically plague Serenwilde, there is a clan devoted to that purpose. It's intended to be a place where the Serenwilde guilds can coordinate (and hopefully present for approval to admins, to make sure everything goes through and is carried through during events) and plan RP and overarching meta-rp. It doesn't see much use, but if it did, I think it would really really help some of the Seren problems! Send me a message and we'll arrange for you to be added. 

    (Also, talk to my character IC about some of it. What she spouts isn't the official take of the HS or Seren, but it's half-baked forms of what I hope eventually will be!)
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    I think that (providing the option of) liquidating mandatory guild positions would be a good idea. Allow guilds the choice to define their own positions as needed, and allocate existing guild position powers in different ways, according to the ethos/structure of the guild - and the availability of staffing.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,432 Transcendent
    Enyalida said:
    I think that (providing the option of) liquidating mandatory guild positions would be a good idea. Allow guilds the choice to define their own positions as needed, and allocate existing guild position powers in different ways, according to the ethos/structure of the guild - and the availability of staffing.

    I believe the first question  asked when something like this is ever proposed is... "but what about the artefacts?"

    I don't particularly think they're necessary, it's nice but those powers can be moved to privs instead. 
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    The only real 'artifact' is the champ artifact, and those shouldn't do all they do anyways.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,432 Transcendent
    Enyalida said:
    The only real 'artifact' is the champ artifact, and those shouldn't do all they do anyways.

    I don't actually see why they need to exist at all. The living cudgel of Glinshari could have been a far more sacred relic stored safely within the grove and perhaps used in rituals, it could have even been fought over between then druid guilds. But it's destroyed now because of what it was and when the runes came out it was unfair to champs to restrict them from using the runes.
  • MoiMoi Member Posts: 1,213 Transcendent
    Could just make the artifacts an investible power, if you're going to make custom positions at all.
  • KioKio Member Posts: 992 Mythical
    Enyalida said:
    The only real 'artifact' is the champ artifact, and those shouldn't do all they do anyways.
    Report 1260! Everyone keeps complaining, but no one's commented at all :(
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,674 Transcendent
    Grim is easily my favorite part about being a Nihilist, wouldn't even really care if Grim did nothing, still pretty awesome.

    I also don't see how Champion artifacts relate to Population Issues, I think there's much bigger things dragging things down (shrines, demesnes, passive effects, discretionaries, room-wide attacks, buff ontop of every other buff) that should be focused on.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,432 Transcendent
    Silvanus said:
    Grim is easily my favorite part about being a Nihilist, wouldn't even really care if Grim did nothing, still pretty awesome.

    I also don't see how Champion artifacts relate to Population Issues, I think there's much bigger things dragging things down (shrines, demesnes, passive effects, discretionaries, room-wide attacks, buff ontop of every other buff) that should be focused on.

    The reason champion artifacts relate is because the discussion moved to the number of guild leader positions and culling them.

    I'm not sure how your examples relate to guilds feeling empty though.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    Personally I would love to have characters in other Orgs, example being a Moondancer (always did love the Moon skill) or perhaps a Blacktalon druid, but honestly I just cant even picture myself starting off with 0 skills and having to work my ass off to try and get that character built up. Sure, playing a new character gives a blank slate and can be encouraging,  but trying to use things like Nature Curse as my prime attack tool and being without all my juicy abilities just burns painfully inside. I think that is a reason I prefer hopping to a new org with my main character rather than create a whole new one.
  • DaemDaem Member Posts: 95 Capable
    Arcanis said:
    Personally I would love to have characters in other Orgs, example being a Moondancer (always did love the Moon skill) or perhaps a Blacktalon druid, but honestly I just cant even picture myself starting off with 0 skills and having to work my ass off to try and get that character built up. Sure, playing a new character gives a blank slate and can be encouraging,  but trying to use things like Nature Curse as my prime attack tool and being without all my juicy abilities just burns painfully inside. I think that is a reason I prefer hopping to a new org with my main character rather than create a whole new one.
    I feel like minimum if I start a new character I am not comfortable without Trans in main skill (For Bashing), Focus mind in Discipline, and Conglutination in Planar, being able to Parry each portion. I don't feel combat ready until I've reached Transcendent in my guild skills, resilience, low/high magic (Not necessary for group combat, but going from having it to not having it you feel the difference). Since buying Vadi's system I feel like I would need his system for each alt. I don't alt anymore because of it (Plus the Shadowdancers are cool).
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    Vadi's probably made a small fortune off of me. Someday he'll take pity on me and just give me a master system that I can config to any guild.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    edited August 2013
    Shaddus said:
    Vadi's probably made a small fortune off of me. Someday he'll take pity on me and just give me a master system that I can config to any guild.
    Vadi pity another living creature? That'll be the day!
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,023 Transcendent
    Eh. Vadi is pretty cool, really.
    image
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess Member Posts: 2,927 Transcendent
    Arcanis said:
    Personally I would love to have characters in other Orgs, example being a Moondancer (always did love the Moon skill) or perhaps a Blacktalon druid, but honestly I just cant even picture myself starting off with 0 skills and having to work my ass off to try and get that character built up. Sure, playing a new character gives a blank slate and can be encouraging,  but trying to use things like Nature Curse as my prime attack tool and being without all my juicy abilities just burns painfully inside. I think that is a reason I prefer hopping to a new org with my main character rather than create a whole new one.
    There will always be some bias, and there will always be people that figure out your alts as soon as you make them (So blank slate probably isn't entirely true). Very few people I've told who my previous main was have went... "O.o Really?", most have been... "Ehhhh, I knew already." *shrug* Maybe I'm just transparent and I tend to have a blind spot in regards to people's alts in being unable to guess who anyone's alt is... but I don't think so.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,023 Transcendent
    To be fair, when alts share the same first few characters as their main, it's rather apparent.
    image
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me. Member Posts: 1,613 Transcendent
    I agree, it's more fun taking your main to another org than start over with a newbie. I feel too gimpy otherwise and there is a chance that my burning hatred for the other side will diminish if I see that they're actually people too when playing a new character.
    image
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,023 Transcendent
    Taking my main to another org... I'd feel so bad. :(
    image
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess Member Posts: 2,927 Transcendent
    Xenthos said:
    To be fair, when alts share the same first few characters as their main, it's rather apparent.
    Yeah, I guess it's a bit true... I have several El-starting characters.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • AkyaevinAkyaevin Member Posts: 586 Fabled
    Shuyin said:
    I agree, it's more fun taking your main to another org than start over with a newbie. I feel too gimpy otherwise and there is a chance that my burning hatred for the other side will diminish if I see that they're actually people too when playing a new character.
    The better option is just to play the game so long that you've allied with literally every other organization at some point, even your diametrically opposed one!
  • NeosNeos The Subtle Griefer Member Posts: 1,538 Transcendent
    Akyaevin said:
    Shuyin said:
    I agree, it's more fun taking your main to another org than start over with a newbie. I feel too gimpy otherwise and there is a chance that my burning hatred for the other side will diminish if I see that they're actually people too when playing a new character.
    The better option is just to play the game so long that you've allied with literally every other organization at some point, even your diametrically opposed one!
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    Celina said:
    You can't really same the same, can you?
    Zvoltz said:
    "The Panthron"
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