We have poison damage? I'VE BEEN USING THE WRONG DAMAGE TYPING ALL THIS TIME!
Yeah, and your unleash staff is a single damage type, too!
And I get an effect that can affect enemies in a negative way throughout my entire demesne when demesne effects were changed to only be adjacent areas? I have a long way to go it seems.
We have poison damage? I'VE BEEN USING THE WRONG DAMAGE TYPING ALL THIS TIME!
Yeah, and your unleash staff is a single damage type, too!
And I get an effect that can affect enemies in a negative way throughout my entire demesne when demesne effects were changed to only be adjacent areas? I have a long way to go it seems.
Don't forget the hunger attrition, the rubble and the timed insta.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
We have poison damage? I'VE BEEN USING THE WRONG DAMAGE TYPING ALL THIS TIME!
These statements amuse me. It's lines of thinking like this which end up LEADING to imbalance in the first place. You only see what you fight against, not what you have. You have the same exact amount of set ups we have, with different pro's, and different con's. The same as us. The difference is I'm not willing to sit here and tell you exactly every damn thing you're doing wrong and every damn thing you could be doing to stop various things happening. Failure to look inward and admit you have things is a personal issue, not mine. Lack of objectivity is a personality flaw.
Decision made! After almost 5 years as a Nihilist, time to be a noob as a different class.
As long as you Preserve the Economy(tm), s'fine. Enjoy!
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
#bringShikariback
4
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Poor, underpowered aeros and aquas. I heard they are so week they can't even lift their staff to use it. It's like the admin hate seren and Hallifax.
6
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Decision made! After almost 5 years as a Nihilist, time to be a noob as a different class.
As long as you Preserve the Economy(tm), s'fine. Enjoy!
Well gee, I wonder where this jab is aimed at.
As to destruction.... I have yet to say it's not OP... in fact, my claim remains the same. The power needs some pretty good looking at.
If destruction does, then so does every Mages staffcast, nightgaze, moonfire, shadowchord, chaoschord, other bard chord attacks etc.
They are all on par with each other, or are you telling me it's ok for your staffcast to do 25% of someone's health, but my destruction doing it is way too OP?
If destruction does, then so does every Mages staffcast, nightgaze, moonfire, shadowchord, chaoschord, other bard chord attacks etc.
They are all on par with each other, or are you telling me it's ok for your staffcast to do 25% of someone's health, but my destruction doing it is way too OP?
And yet you still use destruction instead of chaos chord? I find that curious. Also, just because one ability does x amount of damage doesn't mean every other damage ability should do the same. If it were that way, let's just delete every skillset, buff newbie kick to do the same amount of damage as a mage staff cast and be done with it. Everything balanced.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I'm pretty sure damage and health values being out of wack in different places is one of the areas of concern for the overhaul, so worry not, it sounds like it's already a recognized problem.
It's my personal belief that if you can staff cast, destruction or cord someone to death alone (and that person wasn't a wet paper bag), your damage values are too high. It promotes a 1-button style of combat that's boring and far too easy.
If destruction does, then so does every Mages staffcast, nightgaze, moonfire, shadowchord, chaoschord, other bard chord attacks etc.
They are all on par with each other, or are you telling me it's ok for your staffcast to do 25% of someone's health, but my destruction doing it is way too OP?
And yet you still use destruction instead of chaos chord? I find that curious. Also, just because one ability does x amount of damage doesn't mean every other damage ability should do the same. If it were that way, let's just delete every skillset, buff newbie kick to do the same amount of damage as a mage staff cast and be done with it. Everything balanced.
Yes, I use destruction because I'm a dwarf with eq-malus. Some people I actually do more damage with chasochord because not many people build up psychic dmp.
The point is, why is it ok for your skill to do that much damage, but it's not ok for mine? A question that you noticeably ignored and went on an overdramatic tirade. What makes destruction OP when it does the same (or in the case of staffcast/nightgaze etc, less) damage than other big damage attacks?
Yes, I use destruction because I'm a dwarf with eq-malus. Some people I actually do more damage with chasochord because not many people build up psychic dmp.
The point is, why is it ok for your skill to do that much damage, but it's not ok for mine? A question that you noticeably ignored and went on an overdramatic tirade. What makes destruction OP when it does the same (or in the case of staffcast/nightgaze etc, less) damage than other big damage attacks?
There's a reason dwarf has an equilibrium malus. That being, they're tanky. I was a dwarf warrior both in Achaea and Aetolia as they had all those nice little perks to damage resistances and high con. If memory serves, originally they not only had an equilibrium malus, but a balance malus too... which makes things even worse in those two games because it was all about the speed venom stacking as a warrior.
That said, I thought I answered your question. Just because skill X does 2000 damage doesn't necessarily mean that skill Y should do 2000 damage, too. Mage staffcast and bard chords as has been mentioned on more than one occasion are the strongest possible attacks. Giving the same high-damage abilities to monks, warriors and guardians doesn't make it okay just because the other classes have it too. Again, if Lusternia was all about everyone having the same thing, just delete every skillset, give newbie kick 25% total hp of target as damage and problem solved.
Otherwise, well... while we're at it, can I have an ent that passively doubles a target's balance/eq time via an incurable 6s affliction every 12s, an ent that passively spits ectoplasm, a timed insta as a mage, rubble/stonewall, hunger attrition, a 100% poison damage attack for my unleash staff, an ent that lets me throw phantom/claws for free and also casts dysbaric pressure on command, and passive drunk attrition? No? After all, other classes have those things, why can't I have them, too?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Just because skill X does 2000 damage doesn't necessarily mean that skill Y should do 2000 damage, too.
You never actually said why this should be the case? Why shouldn't destruction, as a pure damaging attack, be outputting the same damage as other pure damaging attacks. You can't just sit here and say 'well because it shouldn't.' You need to have reasons and justification as to why it shouldn't be doing the same amount of damage.
If you want to make the argument that warriors/guardians/monks shouldn't have access to a damage skill like this, make that argument, which happens to be completely separate from the argument you are making. It seems that your issue ( which Silvanus and Celina have agreed with) isn't that it does that much damage, it's who it allows to do that much damage, so really the issue ISN'T the damage, which is a far cry from your complaints about it doing 25% of your health earlier.
Also, going on unrelated rants about other skills (especially when your wrong about said skills, what ent does passive ecto?) doesn't really help your case. It just once again makes you look like a giant crybaby who is always screaming 'the grass is greener on the other side. I mean, rainbowpathwhatever is pretty equilivalent to rubble, you can windwall to prevent stonewalls, electric/cold damage is nothing to cry about, Hell Nydekion used to have Fillin sized Maelstroms and he had 4 damage types! Two classes that can do passive aeon, plus the ability to lock up people in aeon incredibly easily.
Maybe if you tried more things than resorting to phantomspheres every chance you get, or just running away all the time, you'd be more successful. As a mage, you have plenty you can do to help the group out. But of course, you'll just brush whatever I say off as 'abrasive and toxic' and probably flag my post rather than try new things and get better. You'll probably continue to not even bother to try and fight in even odds, only giving it a go when you have the numbers. I was hoping you getting VA would instill a sense of positiveness and a more can-do attitude in you, but sadly, you're still the same ol' Elanorwen with the 'only fight it if I'm guaranteed to win' mentality.
(I promise you, if you really really have max tolerance and both the charm and leprechaun medal, like you SAY you do, alcoholfumes isn't strong enough to make you passively drunk, I don't even bother using it because it doesn't really work unless you have no tolerance.)
@Rivius I missed your post before. And I agree, but that simply isn't the case. I don't really think anyone can damage out anyone who has really put in an effort to mitigate it and be more tanky, in 1v1 (which is what I'm assuming you're talking about).
Just because skill X does 2000 damage doesn't necessarily mean that skill Y should do 2000 damage, too.
You never actually said why this should be the case? Why shouldn't destruction, as a pure damaging attack, be outputting the same damage as other pure damaging attacks. You can't just sit here and say 'well because it shouldn't.' You need to have reasons and justification as to why it shouldn't be doing the same amount of damage.
If you want to make the argument that warriors/guardians/monks shouldn't have access to a damage skill like this, make that argument, which happens to be completely separate from the argument you are making. It seems that your issue ( which Silvanus and Celina have agreed with) isn't that it does that much damage, it's who it allows to do that much damage, so really the issue ISN'T the damage, which is a far cry from your complaints about it doing 25% of your health earlier.
Also, going on unrelated rants about other skills (especially when your wrong about said skills, what ent does passive ecto?) doesn't really help your case. It just once again makes you look like a giant crybaby who is always screaming 'the grass is greener on the other side. I mean, rainbowpathwhatever is pretty equilivalent to rubble, you can windwall to prevent stonewalls, electric/cold damage is nothing to cry about, Hell Nydekion used to have Fillin sized Maelstroms and he had 4 damage types! Two classes that can do passive aeon, plus the ability to lock up people in aeon incredibly easily.
Maybe if you tried more things than resorting to phantomspheres every chance you get, or just running away all the time, you'd be more successful. As a mage, you have plenty you can do to help the group out. But of course, you'll just brush whatever I say off as 'abrasive and toxic' and probably flag my post rather than try new things and get better. You'll probably continue to not even bother to try and fight in even odds, only giving it a go when you have the numbers. I was hoping you getting VA would instill a sense of positiveness and a more can-do attitude in you, but sadly, you're still the same ol' Elanorwen with the 'only fight it if I'm guaranteed to win' mentality.
(I promise you, if you really really have max tolerance and both the charm and leprechaun medal, like you SAY you do, alcoholfumes isn't strong enough to make you passively drunk, I don't even bother using it because it doesn't really work unless you have no tolerance.)
Passive ecto ent?
Sludgeworm.
As to destruction not needing to do that much damage, it is quite
simple... it's offsetting the balance of things. If your 12 base int destros
without a balance buff outdo the damage of your 15 base cha chords with a
level 1 eq malus, then there clearly is a problem in the equation,
especially considering the fact that as a bard I'd assume you get plenty
more buffs to your cha than you do your int. What is it? 19, 20 or 21 cha? As opposed to maybe 15 int?
Tolerance : an unabashed alcoholic You are wearing: "charm19841" the Charm of the Clangoru "medal75816" a Leprechaun's Medal of Profligate Inebriation
Have been in that state since pretty much 2 weeks after I moved to Halli. We can test it if you'd like. Pretty sure fumes will do enough.
I will fail to rise to your bait in regards to 'only fight if I'm guaranteed a win' comment. I won't even bother flagging your post, because in the end, it will accomplish nothing. Clearly passive aggressive remarks are not against forum rules.
EDIT: My 'unrelated rant' is just an extrapolation of your comment about how if my staff does 2000 damage, you should have a skill that does so too.
EDIT2: Never heard of this rainbowpathwhatever thing you speak of. If we're talking about rainbowclouds, they afflict when enemies try to move. Cancelling stone walls by putting up windwalls kind of requires that there be no stonewalls in the first place. The situation works in both directions. I'm not saying that I find stonewalls to be that much of an issue, but the fact remains that stone walls cannot be broken except by a specific beastmastery ability and/or barrier. Stone walls also actually prevent movement unlike wind walls that have a chance to stop enemies from leaving, thus not always accomplishing what is expected of them. Again, this is only an extrapolation from your claims that you should have a skill that does X because I have a skill that does the same.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Just because skill X does 2000 damage doesn't necessarily mean that skill Y should do 2000 damage, too.
You never actually said why this should be the case? Why shouldn't destruction, as a pure damaging attack, be outputting the same damage as other pure damaging attacks. You can't just sit here and say 'well because it shouldn't.' You need to have reasons and justification as to why it shouldn't be doing the same amount of damage.
If you want to make the argument that warriors/guardians/monks shouldn't have access to a damage skill like this, make that argument, which happens to be completely separate from the argument you are making. It seems that your issue ( which Silvanus and Celina have agreed with) isn't that it does that much damage, it's who it allows to do that much damage, so really the issue ISN'T the damage, which is a far cry from your complaints about it doing 25% of your health earlier.
Also, going on unrelated rants about other skills (especially when your wrong about said skills, what ent does passive ecto?) doesn't really help your case. It just once again makes you look like a giant crybaby who is always screaming 'the grass is greener on the other side. I mean, rainbowpathwhatever is pretty equilivalent to rubble, you can windwall to prevent stonewalls, electric/cold damage is nothing to cry about, Hell Nydekion used to have Fillin sized Maelstroms and he had 4 damage types! Two classes that can do passive aeon, plus the ability to lock up people in aeon incredibly easily.
Maybe if you tried more things than resorting to phantomspheres every chance you get, or just running away all the time, you'd be more successful. As a mage, you have plenty you can do to help the group out. But of course, you'll just brush whatever I say off as 'abrasive and toxic' and probably flag my post rather than try new things and get better. You'll probably continue to not even bother to try and fight in even odds, only giving it a go when you have the numbers. I was hoping you getting VA would instill a sense of positiveness and a more can-do attitude in you, but sadly, you're still the same ol' Elanorwen with the 'only fight it if I'm guaranteed to win' mentality.
(I promise you, if you really really have max tolerance and both the charm and leprechaun medal, like you SAY you do, alcoholfumes isn't strong enough to make you passively drunk, I don't even bother using it because it doesn't really work unless you have no tolerance.)
Passive ecto ent?
Sludgeworm.
As to destruction not needing to do that much damage, it is quite
simple... it's offsetting the balance of things. If your 12 base int destros
without a balance buff outdo the damage of your 15 base cha chords with a
level 1 eq malus, then there clearly is a problem in the equation,
especially considering the fact that as a bard I'd assume you get plenty
more buffs to your cha than you do your int. What is it? 19, 20 or 21 cha? As opposed to maybe 15 int?
Tolerance : an unabashed alcoholic You are wearing: "charm19841" the Charm of the Clangoru "medal75816" a Leprechaun's Medal of Profligate Inebriation
Have been in that state since pretty much 2 weeks after I moved to Halli. We can test it if you'd like. Pretty sure fumes will do enough.
I will fail to rise to your bait in regards to 'only fight if I'm guaranteed a win' comment. I won't even bother flagging your post, because in the end, it will accomplish nothing. Clearly passive aggressive remarks are not against forum rules.
Sludgeworm doesn't do passive ecto - it hits you with sludge that only has a %chance to stop you from leaving a room, doesn't affect anything else. The only similarity is the cleanse cure.
Bard chords are based off half Int half Cha to determine damage, not pure CHA like you seem to be assuming. Now I understand why you're making incorrect conclusions, you simply don't really know how things work. The split damage sourcing of bard chords brings the damage more in line with destruction because it is partially based on Int. there's also a reason that bard chords do less damage than staffcasts/nightgaze in general and it's because they have a slower balance time (4 secs vs 3.5). Lastly, my destruction damage is on the lower end of things. Testing against Caerlyr awhile back, I was doing 1.3kish per hit, which is a direct result of my low Int.
If you don't bother to learn how things work, how can you expected to justify your arguments with incorrectly assumed information?
edit: Oh my passive aggressive snark was in direct response to your passive aggressive rant on OP things you desire to have. If you want to stick to the argument, stick to it, going off on a tangent, especially an incorrect one, just makes you look like what I pointed out.
Sludgeworm doesn't do passive ecto - it hits you with sludge that only has a %chance to stop you from leaving a room, doesn't affect anything else. The only similarity is the cleanse cure.
Bard chords are based off half Int half Cha to determine damage, not pure CHA like you seem to be assuming. Now I understand why you're making incorrect conclusions, you simply don't really know how things work. The split damage sourcing of bard chords brings the damage more in line with destruction because it is partially based on Int. there's also a reason that bard chords do less damage than staffcasts/nightgaze in general and it's because they have a slower balance time (4 secs vs 3.5). Lastly, my destruction damage is on the lower end of things. Testing against Caerlyr awhile back, I was doing 1.3kish per hit, which is a direct result of my low Int.
If you don't bother to learn how things work, how can you expected to justify your arguments with incorrectly assumed information?
edit: Oh my passive aggressive snark was in direct response to your passive aggressive rant on OP things you desire to have. If you want to stick to the argument, stick to it, going off on a tangent, especially an incorrect one, just makes you look like what I pointed out.
Fine, I'm wrong about the sludgeworm thing. As to bards... I've never claimed to be familiar with the archetype to the point of being able to fully theorycraft them. When I see Source: Magical (Charisma) in the ab, I assume it is based off charisma and benefits from a magical damage rune. Your destro being on the lower end of the scope with a 1.3k damage versus Caerlyr is interesting. I know I recently had a chat with Caerlyr about that same thing... and what I heard was... "Destro did 1.3k damage to me at 130dmp"
As to your passive aggressive snark, again, I was simply using your own argument against you. Nothing else. I tried to be polite and reasonable, but okay... if insulting is the way to go about it, then this discussion is officially over. Have a nice day.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I was never able to IronChord someone to death, maybe Cacophony are just weaker than all the other Bardtypes.
#UpgradeCaco
I'd say that probably comes down to damage typing... i.e. 50% cutting will hurt your damage output by quite a decent amount. Mind you, not saying that's okay... just saying that's the most likely cause in my opinion.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Which I'll point out, duh, it's probably that way because CarillonKnell can end up doing pretty large passive damage and a Caco shouldn't be doing that much active damage.
Some archetypes do not deserve large damaging attacks. As Synk points out earlier, he uses Destro because it's on Balance, and Dwarves have a -Eq Malus, which would make his Chording slower and less damaging.
But this is all details that people ignore to protect their own Destro. It isn't fair, and hasn't been fair. If one class shouldn't be given access to Destro, that means all classes shouldn't be given access to it.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
My favorite part about all this is the people that complained about Fillin's overpowered staffcasting/polluting/toohighofdamage are now defending their own Destro/toohighofdamage attacks.
How quickly people can flip-flop!
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
2
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Nerf Aslaran int by a few points. Problem solved.
Not that it'll kill the Destruction argument as I think that'll hang around until it goes the way of Choke, but it'll fix the real issue.
Or remove +Balance/+Int and -Balance/-Int and solve a lot of problems at once
(Hexes, Destro/Staffcast spamming, Every Warrior being an Aslaran)
You'd have to rewrite a lot of skill times to bring some guilds in line without the eq bonus, specifically Wiccans. But yes, that would work but is more complicated. ( I assume you mean -/+ eq)
God I wish illu had passive ecto via sludgeworm, we only have to make do with an inferior incurable one.
PS there sure is a lot of grass is greener mentality going around. Can I demand passive aeon, instant stun and room move on entry, heal + prismatic barrier, and others yet.
Comments
Signature!
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
edit:
As long as you Preserve the Economy(tm), s'fine. Enjoy!
Signature!
As to destruction.... I have yet to say it's not OP... in fact, my claim remains the same. The power needs some pretty good looking at.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
That said, I thought I answered your question. Just because skill X does 2000 damage doesn't necessarily mean that skill Y should do 2000 damage, too. Mage staffcast and bard chords as has been mentioned on more than one occasion are the strongest possible attacks. Giving the same high-damage abilities to monks, warriors and guardians doesn't make it okay just because the other classes have it too. Again, if Lusternia was all about everyone having the same thing, just delete every skillset, give newbie kick 25% total hp of target as damage and problem solved.
Otherwise, well... while we're at it, can I have an ent that passively doubles a target's balance/eq time via an incurable 6s affliction every 12s, an ent that passively spits ectoplasm, a timed insta as a mage, rubble/stonewall, hunger attrition, a 100% poison damage attack for my unleash staff, an ent that lets me throw phantom/claws for free and also casts dysbaric pressure on command, and passive drunk attrition? No? After all, other classes have those things, why can't I have them, too?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
As to destruction not needing to do that much damage, it is quite simple... it's offsetting the balance of things. If your 12 base int destros without a balance buff outdo the damage of your 15 base cha chords with a level 1 eq malus, then there clearly is a problem in the equation, especially considering the fact that as a bard I'd assume you get plenty more buffs to your cha than you do your int. What is it? 19, 20 or 21 cha? As opposed to maybe 15 int?
Tolerance : an unabashed alcoholic
You are wearing:
"charm19841" the Charm of the Clangoru
"medal75816" a Leprechaun's Medal of Profligate Inebriation
Have been in that state since pretty much 2 weeks after I moved to Halli. We can test it if you'd like. Pretty sure fumes will do enough.
I will fail to rise to your bait in regards to 'only fight if I'm guaranteed a win' comment. I won't even bother flagging your post, because in the end, it will accomplish nothing. Clearly passive aggressive remarks are not against forum rules.
EDIT: My 'unrelated rant' is just an extrapolation of your comment about how if my staff does 2000 damage, you should have a skill that does so too.
EDIT2: Never heard of this rainbowpathwhatever thing you speak of. If we're talking about rainbowclouds, they afflict when enemies try to move. Cancelling stone walls by putting up windwalls kind of requires that there be no stonewalls in the first place. The situation works in both directions. I'm not saying that I find stonewalls to be that much of an issue, but the fact remains that stone walls cannot be broken except by a specific beastmastery ability and/or barrier. Stone walls also actually prevent movement unlike wind walls that have a chance to stop enemies from leaving, thus not always accomplishing what is expected of them. Again, this is only an extrapolation from your claims that you should have a skill that does X because I have a skill that does the same.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
As to your passive aggressive snark, again, I was simply using your own argument against you. Nothing else. I tried to be polite and reasonable, but okay... if insulting is the way to go about it, then this discussion is officially over. Have a nice day.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
#UpgradeCaco
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Some archetypes do not deserve large damaging attacks. As Synk points out earlier, he uses Destro because it's on Balance, and Dwarves have a -Eq Malus, which would make his Chording slower and less damaging.
But this is all details that people ignore to protect their own Destro. It isn't fair, and hasn't been fair. If one class shouldn't be given access to Destro, that means all classes shouldn't be given access to it.
How quickly people can flip-flop!
Nerf Aslaran int by a few points. Problem solved.
Not that it'll kill the Destruction argument as I think that'll hang around until it goes the way of Choke, but it'll fix the real issue.
(Hexes, Destro/Staffcast spamming, Every Warrior being an Aslaran)
Um...high end destruction is still not on par with Fillin's staff, much less pollute.
It's not a flip-flop, that's called a false equivalency.
You'd have to rewrite a lot of skill times to bring some guilds in line without the eq bonus, specifically Wiccans. But yes, that would work but is more complicated. ( I assume you mean -/+ eq)
God I wish illu had passive ecto via sludgeworm, we only have to make do with an inferior incurable one.
PS there sure is a lot of grass is greener mentality going around. Can I demand passive aeon, instant stun and room move on entry, heal + prismatic barrier, and others yet.