Tweets V: Tweet and Tower

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  • MunsiaMunsia The Supreme Goddess
    Parua said:
    Lillie said:
    Hey, I wasn't intending to leave, I was forced out! Ask @Laysus and @Parua and @Marcella! Lillie didn't want to go at all!

    dat ebooty tho
    please don't perpetuate that here.
    Lillie were not forced, she was given a choice
    That's such a lie. I know from past experiences it's not a choice, it's forcing. Do what I say, or else...that's not a choice
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.

    1) The "buff the smobs" campaign was lead by Celest while they were on the losing side, incidentally after they had just wrapped up chain killing the DLs months prior. Same with the shrines in enemy territory changes. Llandros's history is screwy.

     

    2) It makes me sad that this game has become so carebear that killing smobs is now once in a blue moon and people mope around because of it. They died once. ONCE. In god knows how long. I just can't wrap my mind around it. Things things used to happen all the time, and the game never collapsed. Not once. Incidentally, there are a lot fewer PKers around to defend your territories now that the fun has been slowly drained from voluntary conflict. This is why I haven't been playing lately. Conflict has just been so not fun ever since I came back.

     

    3) That being said, saying "Losing has it's advantages, you can be the smartest kid on the short bus!" is just putting perfume on a pile of crap. And slightly patronizing. Seriously, be the winningest loser? Girl boo.

     

    4) Serenwilde has been on top, it's just been a long time. Celenwilde was absolutely dominating back in the day.

     

    5) "Do as I say or else," is actually a choice. Maybe not to people with severe authority issues (*cough cough*), but it is.

    image
  • edited June 2014
    Hmm, I dont know about others but I actually prefer being in an underdog Org. I find orgs that are dominating to be soooo boring. For me, I find when attempting to be part of the effort (in a dominating org) to be eclipsed by bigger and more successful players, thus my skills being unneeded. as @Llandros said, when your org is on the down, it is a great time to be inspired to give all the skills you have to empower and show the game-world just what it is made of. I know I will be enjoying that myself.


    As a side note...

    Anyone that touches my Ashto is in a for a world of hurt -,-.


    :x
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    You know, I've been part of some of the greatest fights/revolts/whatever that's happened in Lusternia. From the weakening where we destroyed all of Celest's constructs in one go, to Hai'Gloh, killing DemonLords, Supernals, Moon Avatars, Spheres (I don't know if I've done fleshpots, definitely haven't done Night Avatars). I've also been on the losing side of some incredibly epic curbstomps, The opposite thing of Hai'Gloh where Mag just camped Faethorn for several hours and we couldn't touch them, to getting wrecked by a couple very good PKers against our zerg. There was a domoth a while ago, but not forever ago where Kelly/Xena and a few people (with a shield shrine) took out a much larger group of us. Losing isn't a big deal. Oh no, we lost that domoth, oh no, Maeve is tainted and a loveslave of Niflhema(sp?). Domoths flux, Maeve is branded but no longer a slave and we're doing ok. The worst part is some essence/xp loss (I lost 10+mil essence during the raids yesterday by the by) and that's easy to get back with some work. Losing just doesn't really matter that much.

    For instance, as of this morning, at least 3 spheres are back up (if not more). The first one is always the toughest because you can't convert without a sphere I believe, so the rest should be easy. Yes, the Spheres died, yes, the defense was kind of flailing and not really coordinated, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't matter that much, they'll be back up, they'll be invulnerable for some time and you can go about your merry way, continuing to write, or whatever it is you like to do.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Synkarin said:
    The worst part is some essence/xp loss (I lost 10+mil essence during the raids yesterday by the by) and that's easy to get back with some work. Losing just doesn't really matter that much.

    When you can get a 15+ man astral, sure... for us, a 5-man astral is having a good bashing day. I'm betting you've recovered over 70% of your loss from yesterday. And I'm quite willing to bet that the most recovered from people that were dying in friendly territory is 5%

    But hey, it's not a big deal, right?
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • Elanorwen said:
    Synkarin said:
    The worst part is some essence/xp loss (I lost 10+mil essence during the raids yesterday by the by) and that's easy to get back with some work. Losing just doesn't really matter that much.

    When you can get a 15+ man astral, sure... for us, a 5-man astral is having a good bashing day. I'm betting you've recovered over 70% of your loss from yesterday. And I'm quite willing to bet that the most recovered from people that were dying in friendly territory is 5%

    But hey, it's not a big deal, right?
    That's fallacious at best and inflammatory at worst. For a start, you have the numbers to be able to do that sort of astral bash, you also have the code to run the links - it's all in the bashing system I posted on Mechanics Corner. It's down to you guys if you don't run them and it's a completely separate issue to the Sphere raid.

    Secondly, Sidd wouldn't have made back his essence on that hunt since he only showed up for 5 minutes before he left. 

    I pushed for that hunt because I was down at 200k essence after the failed Avatar raid and needed a buffer, and to answer your question - yes I made back more than I lost.


  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Synkarin said:
    I didn't astral bash so I recovered none of it ;)  

    But hey, be a negative nancy, as you always have been and apparently always will be. I mean, there's definitely no possible way to gain essence back without doing giant astral bashes. It's impossible otherwise. Always an excuse for you isn't it.

    At the end of the day, it isn't a big deal, and your consistent poor attitude only brings down yourself and your org/alliance. 
    *shrug* I can solo clear Muud, so I know there's plenty of ways to recover essence. Never said there aren't. It'd still take 4 full clears to recover what I lost dying yesterday. I can't speak of others, but that doesn't strike me as the highlight of entertainment. It all comes down to time spent. 1 hour of astral for ~6m versus 1 hour of Muud for 500k. Hmmmm, which is more productive?

    As to me being a negative Nancy... yeah, my smobs got dropped, and instead of having a relaxing couple of hours of play yesterday, I got yelled at by people for daring to be afk cooking dinner while we were being raided. And then not eating said dinner farming essence to repair spheres. Slept all of 3 hours due to worrying and trying to think of what to do better next time instead of sleeping... because you know, some of us do care about what happens in game. Then almost having a car accident for being half-asleep at the steering wheel on my way to work because of sleeping for 3 hours. Sorry, but I really don't see much to be positive about right now. I'm sure when I do have a car accident on the way home, the day will be complete.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Elanorwen said:
    Synkarin said:
    I didn't astral bash so I recovered none of it ;)  

    But hey, be a negative nancy, as you always have been and apparently always will be. I mean, there's definitely no possible way to gain essence back without doing giant astral bashes. It's impossible otherwise. Always an excuse for you isn't it.

    At the end of the day, it isn't a big deal, and your consistent poor attitude only brings down yourself and your org/alliance. 
    *shrug* I can solo clear Muud, so I know there's plenty of ways to recover essence. Never said there aren't. It'd still take 4 full clears to recover what I lost dying yesterday. I can't speak of others, but that doesn't strike me as the highlight of entertainment. It all comes down to time spent. 1 hour of astral for ~6m versus 1 hour of Muud for 500k. Hmmmm, which is more productive?

    As to me being a negative Nancy... yeah, my smobs got dropped, and instead of having a relaxing couple of hours of play yesterday, I got yelled at by people for daring to be afk cooking dinner while we were being raided. And then not eating said dinner farming essence to repair spheres. Slept all of 3 hours due to worrying and trying to think of what to do better next time instead of sleeping... because you know, some of us do care about what happens in game. Then almost having a car accident for being half-asleep at the steering wheel on my way to work because of sleeping for 3 hours. Sorry, but I really don't see much to be positive about right now. I'm sure when I do have a car accident on the way home, the day will be complete.
    Your personal choices on how you deal with this game are your own. I certainly never would have advocated you forgo sleep to get spheres back up. However, the negative nancy attitude extends much farther and deeper than this particular instance. It's not the first time I've called you out on your attitude.

    And there are far better ways to get essence than solo-clearing Muud that don't involve massive Astral bashes. You're symphonium now, you could get a few ikons, some other boosts and influence 2-3times that easily (if not more). Icewynd is far better as well. Part of the astral magic is stacking xp buffs as well


    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • I am still against large essence loss for dying in general! We have this fun combat system, and boring bashing system, and then we say, if you want to fight you have to bash! Then we wonder why no one wants to fight...
  • Removing xp/essence loss is a horrible idea.  It's something that makes a player choose whether risk is greater than reward or not.  Take away the cost and you take away the worth of fights or events.  Unless some other cost efficient is introduced to replace it, of course.
  • Elanorwen said:
    As to me being a negative Nancy... yeah, my smobs got dropped, and instead of having a relaxing couple of hours of play yesterday, I got yelled at by people for daring to be afk cooking dinner while we were being raided. And then not eating said dinner farming essence to repair spheres. Slept all of 3 hours due to worrying and trying to think of what to do better next time instead of sleeping... because you know, some of us do care about what happens in game. Then almost having a car accident for being half-asleep at the steering wheel on my way to work because of sleeping for 3 hours. Sorry, but I really don't see much to be positive about right now. I'm sure when I do have a car accident on the way home, the day will be complete.

    Heavens....girl why are you talking it to such a drastic level?! Game-time should never ever -EVER- become a negative to your own life where it begins to play a deteriorating aspect to it. I dont understand why you felt the need to stay up to get the first Sphere up, since you can only supply it with air essence you can collect only from Air, so it really shouldnt require more than max 1 or 2 people checking it now and then.

    Seriously, right now you shouldnt be thinking "God damn it...all this work I have to put it now and so much anti-fun", what you should be thinking "Well that was a crazy experience..glad it's done now, i'll get around to raising those spheres when I've got some extra time".
  • Nihta said:
    I am still against large essence loss for dying in general! We have this fun combat system, and boring bashing system, and then we say, if you want to fight you have to bash! Then we wonder why no one wants to fight...
    Agreed. I personally would love if players that die on org-owned planes get either:

    • 0% experience loss
    • very minimal experience loss
    • or are resurrected very quickly at their nexus (such as with conglutinate) with very minimal xp loss.
  • edited June 2014
    Arcanis said:
    Nihta said:
    I am still against large essence loss for dying in general! We have this fun combat system, and boring bashing system, and then we say, if you want to fight you have to bash! Then we wonder why no one wants to fight...
    Agreed. I personally would love if players that die on org-owned planes get either:

    • 0% experience loss
    • very minimal experience loss
    • or are resurrected very quickly at their nexus (such as with conglutinate) with very minimal xp loss.
    0% loss = Throw bodies at a problem to fix a greater problem.
    Smaller XP loss = Skewed mechanics in favor of the defender.
    Faster Resurrection = Skewed mechanics in favor of the defender.

    Faster resurrection is fine until you see an Org with more numbers benefiting from it and then it will just kill any attempt at all.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    Elanorwen said:
    Synkarin said:
    The worst part is some essence/xp loss (I lost 10+mil essence during the raids yesterday by the by) and that's easy to get back with some work. Losing just doesn't really matter that much.

    When you can get a 15+ man astral, sure... for us, a 5-man astral is having a good bashing day. I'm betting you've recovered over 70% of your loss from yesterday. And I'm quite willing to bet that the most recovered from people that were dying in friendly territory is 5%

    But hey, it's not a big deal, right?
    Celest are running more than 5 man astrals by themselves on a near daily basis. You should co-ordinate with them, they're your allies.

    Not to mention Caerlyr runs a lot of aetherhunts, there's opportunities to generate XP/Essence for the north, explore them.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • edited June 2014
    The worth of fights or events is winning the village, winning the domoth, winning the flares, whatever. I don't see how making the weaker team retire early makes these things better.

    If you want a cost for dying, a time penalty is more than enough. That gives the other side time to make it impossible to raid/win/whatever (via pitting, melding, shrining, ect).

    This would also make all forms of losing a fight you didn't want to happen not so bad as the one who got killed just loses 3-5 minutes of their time, and not 2 hours of their time.

    Right now the people who are affected the most by essence loss/exp loss are the ones we most want to fight - those who haven't tried it yet!
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    edited June 2014
    Shaddus said:
    Elanorwen said:
    Synkarin said:
    I didn't astral bash so I recovered none of it ;)  

    But hey, be a negative nancy, as you always have been and apparently always will be. I mean, there's definitely no possible way to gain essence back without doing giant astral bashes. It's impossible otherwise. Always an excuse for you isn't it.

    At the end of the day, it isn't a big deal, and your consistent poor attitude only brings down yourself and your org/alliance. 
    *shrug* I can solo clear Muud, so I know there's plenty of ways to recover essence. Never said there aren't. It'd still take 4 full clears to recover what I lost dying yesterday. I can't speak of others, but that doesn't strike me as the highlight of entertainment. It all comes down to time spent. 1 hour of astral for ~6m versus 1 hour of Muud for 500k. Hmmmm, which is more productive?

    As to me being a negative Nancy... yeah, my smobs got dropped, and instead of having a relaxing couple of hours of play yesterday, I got yelled at by people for daring to be afk cooking dinner while we were being raided. And then not eating said dinner farming essence to repair spheres. Slept all of 3 hours due to worrying and trying to think of what to do better next time instead of sleeping... because you know, some of us do care about what happens in game. Then almost having a car accident for being half-asleep at the steering wheel on my way to work because of sleeping for 3 hours. Sorry, but I really don't see much to be positive about right now. I'm sure when I do have a car accident on the way home, the day will be complete.
    The very MF'ing instant this happened, I'd suggest you QQ and go enjoy your dinner.


    --------------------- Effing broken quoteboxes-----------------------

    Also this. People don't pay your account, they have no right to demand anything of you.

    I can sympathise, I've lost sleep over this game, going over hindsight, and been a zombie at work the next day. It's not worth it, part of that being while there are some people who appreciate the effort you put in, no one will ever fully appreciate the length you may go to.


    Refer to my first rule of gaming. If it's not fun, don't do it.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    Elanorwen said:
    Synkarin said:
    I didn't astral bash so I recovered none of it ;)  

    But hey, be a negative nancy, as you always have been and apparently always will be. I mean, there's definitely no possible way to gain essence back without doing giant astral bashes. It's impossible otherwise. Always an excuse for you isn't it.

    At the end of the day, it isn't a big deal, and your consistent poor attitude only brings down yourself and your org/alliance. 
    *shrug* I can solo clear Muud, so I know there's plenty of ways to recover essence. Never said there aren't. It'd still take 4 full clears to recover what I lost dying yesterday. I can't speak of others, but that doesn't strike me as the highlight of entertainment. It all comes down to time spent. 1 hour of astral for ~6m versus 1 hour of Muud for 500k. Hmmmm, which is more productive?

    As to me being a negative Nancy... yeah, my smobs got dropped, and instead of having a relaxing couple of hours of play yesterday, I got yelled at by people for daring to be afk cooking dinner while we were being raided. And then not eating said dinner farming essence to repair spheres. Slept all of 3 hours due to worrying and trying to think of what to do better next time instead of sleeping... because you know, some of us do care about what happens in game. Then almost having a car accident for being half-asleep at the steering wheel on my way to work because of sleeping for 3 hours. Sorry, but I really don't see much to be positive about right now. I'm sure when I do have a car accident on the way home, the day will be complete.

    You need to pop a Xana, wash it down with a bottle of wine, and take a nap. It's a game.
    image
  • Napping is for pansies. You better be up 20 hours a day bashing like I am, building up a super buffer of essence so I can one-man raid supermobs all day by landing one hit every time before I die and doing it for enough times until they die. Road safety is secondary to glorious e-peen, yo.

  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Lerad said:
    Napping is for pansies. You better be up 20 hours a day bashing like I am, building up a super buffer of essence so I can one-man raid supermobs all day by landing one hit every time before I die and doing it for enough times until they die. Road safety is secondary to glorious e-peen, yo.
    For once, you're not helping.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.

  • Brona said:
    Arcanis said:
    Nihta said:
    I am still against large essence loss for dying in general! We have this fun combat system, and boring bashing system, and then we say, if you want to fight you have to bash! Then we wonder why no one wants to fight...
    Agreed. I personally would love if players that die on org-owned planes get either:

    • 0% experience loss
    • very minimal experience loss
    • or are resurrected very quickly at their nexus (such as with conglutinate) with very minimal xp loss.
    0% loss = Throw bodies at a problem to fix a greater problem.
    Smaller XP loss = Skewed mechanics in favor of the defender.
    Faster Resurrection = Skewed mechanics in favor of the defender.

    Faster resurrection is fine until you see an Org with more numbers benefiting from it and then it will just kill any attempt at all.
    That impression can be given off, and I have seen this complaint brought up in other IREs that were bringing forth this mechanic to combat in certain scenerios, BUT all the results have been a huge success.

    The main factor to mention here is that the removal of XP loss is associated specifically to certain criteria, that being dying on an allied plane. Ask yourself, when an org (such as Hallifax) is being raided by a well-prepared and large force striking at one of their most precious commodities, why should we punish them even -further- by the idea that if they attempt to defend the very beings and lands that they are (through mechanics and lore) associated with, that they will also most likely suffer a big hit to their experience?

    We should not look at it as "they will gain the advantage of kamikazae mechanics", what we should look at it is "We will give them the mechanic they need to actually attempt to push back against the unsuspected raid force". I can say for a fact that the raiders would -not- be upset by seeing a defense, for I believe they would be doing this mainly to get some action (pun unintended) and bloodshed, rather than just 'grief an org'.

    I've seen the 0% experience loss in specific combat criteria be a huge success in the other Muds, and I think it could be a huge benefit to Lusternia combat as well.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    edited June 2014
    ... The experience loss difference is already pretty skewed and it hasn't resulted in any difference in raiding defense.

    If I die during a raid, I lose at a minimum 550k - 2.05mil essence (not including reincarnating/phoenix/anything) A defender loses 50k (again before phoenix/reincarnation etc). Members of the org will conglut for a 50k max loss for defending (on their connected planes that is).

    I don't buy that reducing that already pitiful 50k to 0 will make any difference in defense attempts. It may have worked in other Muds (which ones specifically?) but I'm not convinced it would make a difference here.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • Synkarin said:
    Members of the org will conglut for a 50k max loss for defending (on their connected planes that is).

    Demiscendants won't. I've always thought that was a bit stupid.
    Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.

    Yes they will. They just have to sit it out. The (very small) price you pay for all the sparkly toys you get.

     

    Plus essence doesn't even matter as an ascendant once you get all your toys. You can't ever lose ascendant unless the guild kicks you.

    image
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Ileein said:
    Synkarin said:
    Members of the org will conglut for a 50k max loss for defending (on their connected planes that is).

    Demiscendants won't. I've always thought that was a bit stupid.
    Agreed. Especially ascendant deaths are entertaining in friendly territory. I'm linked to the Matrix, I die practically in front of it, but I still have to pay 250k extra essence to be able to return to the fight in a timely fashion? The 50k to 0 isn't going to change much, true... but conglutination on allied planes/prime org territory even for demi and ascendants would probably help dedicated defenders feel like they're not being punished for defending.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Increased death timers man. No one ever listens.

    Then you can reduce xp loss across the board and increase pk xp. This may involve reducing defender xp to zero.
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  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals
    Shuyin said:
    Increased death timers man. No one ever listens. 
    No way, plenty of people are listening! They're just not speaking up enough, if anything. -Too much listening-.

    That aside, there can be a very thin line between fun and miserable. I logged in near midnight my time or so to make sure my profile was working properly and mudlet was installed correctly, and ended up staying up until 6AM. I can't really explain why. Having this happen before a day off of work helped, certainly, but there's also a definite push to keep going on because your other org-mates are still pushing and going on. This is an important facet for both sides of the smob conflict. If you don't feel that push in any positive fashion, probably time to do something else or burn out.

  • edited June 2014
    Synkarin said:

    I don't buy that reducing that already pitiful 50k to 0 will make any difference in defense attempts. It may have worked in other Muds (which ones specifically?) but I'm not convinced it would make a difference here.

    Well, not to go into too much detail:

    - in Achaea, we had a change made that dying within your city limits will enact no xp penalty loss. This provided an incentive for city members (especially those not very experience/reknown with combat) to actually attempt to help and engage the enemy. This was mostly put in when it was seen that cities with fewer combatants were being avidly curb-stomped and it was generally creating dissatisfaction.

    - In Aetolia they had the issue that few people were actually feeling incentive to dive in and try to grab global 'energy deposits' for their city. The main reason was that people felt they shouldnt be sacrificing their XP when the other side clearly had better fighters. This was later resolved when zones that are currently in play for capturing these deposits became 0% xp loss deaths (admittedly it was apparently initially abused by certain rather distasteful people but later that got resolved too).

    - Lastly, we have MKO (midkemiaonline) that from the get-go made it that there is no XP penalty to deaths from PK. This, alongside an easy to use and understand combat system, allowed players devoted to their Orgs and it's cause to help in skirmishes and combat situations.

    Think that wraps it up
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Vivet said:


    Shuyin said:

    Increased death timers man. No one ever listens. 

    No way, plenty of people are listening! They're just not speaking up enough, if anything. -Too much listening-.

    That aside, there can be a very thin line between fun and miserable. I logged in near midnight my time or so to make sure my profile was working properly and mudlet was installed correctly, and ended up staying up until 6AM. I can't really explain why. Having this happen before a day off of work helped, certainly, but there's also a definite push to keep going on because your other org-mates are still pushing and going on. This is an important facet for both sides of the smob conflict. If you don't feel that push in any positive fashion, probably time to do something else or burn out.



    I can agree with that. I am just super bitter about that envoy report I wrote that suggested timers to begin with getting rejected only too eventually go in anyway.
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