Except you can't have all 5 at once? I'm listing tertiaries for the most part. Phantasm phantomspheres are pointless to even comment on. If someone died to them, they'd have died to damage much easier.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Okay, so what you're saying is that Aeromancers don't need their analog to Cremation, Chasm and Preserve? Or that DysbaricPressure doesn't need reworking beyond cloudcoils being moved to the Overhaul system?
PhantomSpheres are great for when the situation is right. Very situational, but if you want someone to run away, it's perfect. I've died to them because I couldn't get out of an Aquamancer demesne in time.
EternalSleep, yeah, that's awful. Similar to a lot of tertiaries, a lot of kill methods are just unreliable and not a strategy you'd go for.
Also, this is what Envoys are for. Sacrifice without Ectoplasm is going to be beyond unviable, Nihilists are losing Omen, Ectoplasm, and writhe stacking. We have already lost a pact power, and will be losing two more. No complaints though, because we have an envoy that's working to get it changed (oh hey! that's me!).
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Okay, so what you're saying is that Aeromancers don't need their analog to Cremation, Chasm and Preserve? Or that DysbaricPressure doesn't need reworking beyond cloudcoils being moved to the Overhaul system?
From what I'm able to follow, it seems that they are suggesting that the envoy process makes DysbaricPreassure work differently than it does now.
Okay, so what you're saying is that Aeromancers don't need their analog to Cremation, Chasm and Preserve? Or that DysbaricPressure doesn't need reworking beyond cloudcoils being moved to the Overhaul system?
From what I'm able to follow, it seems that they are suggesting that the envoy process makes DysbaricPreassure work differently than it does now.
What I've heard up to this point was... "Let's delete cloudcoils." Nobody even uttered a peep about envoying a different kill method, and several players went as far as to say that aeromancers simply don't need a kill method in aeromancy.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
You are the envoy? Envoy it? I don't understand how that's confusing, stuff is going to get changed, things will have to be adjusted it. You can envoy it. Like I said, the Nihilists have lost 2 of their 3 kill methods (sacrifice and damage killing), nothing has come the Nihilists way nor has anyone mentioned anything about it. It's the responsibility of the envoy(you) and the guild members(you?).
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Okay, so what you're saying is that Aeromancers don't need their analog to Cremation, Chasm and Preserve? Or that DysbaricPressure doesn't need reworking beyond cloudcoils being moved to the Overhaul system?
From what I'm able to follow, it seems that they are suggesting that the envoy process makes DysbaricPreassure work differently than it does now.
What I've heard up to this point was... "Let's delete cloudcoils." Nobody even uttered a peep about envoying a different kill method, and several players went as far as to say that aeromancers simply don't need a kill method in aeromancy.
I see, I miss understood what was said. I thought (after figuring out that cloud coils is not a stand alone affliction) they were talking about cloudcoils not needing a replacement (i.e. use the pre-existing afflictions you can give, to be the mechanism by which DysbaricPreassure works. )
PhantomSpheres are great for when the situation is right. Very situational, but if you want someone to run away, it's perfect. I've died to them because I couldn't get out of an Aquamancer demesne in time.
aqua domains are absolutely hellish for us to get out of. We can't ghostform because WHOOP WATER, currents reks us, and I do believe currents also draws you in towards the meld center or the melder i forget which
aqua domains are absolutely hellish for us to get out of. We can't ghostform because WHOOP WATER, currents reks us, and I do believe currents also draws you in towards the meld center or the melder i forget which
It's on a 10 second tick and only caster adjacent. Once you get out of the adjacent room, there's nothing stopping you from walking out unless you're being chased/hindered or completely forgot how to move. You save time just typing swim or rub waterwalk if need be than trying to ghost away. It's actually better for me to have my center at me, if I have currents up, than away, unless it's 1v1.
Okay, so what you're saying is that Aeromancers don't need their analog to Cremation, Chasm and Preserve? Or that DysbaricPressure doesn't need reworking beyond cloudcoils being moved to the Overhaul system?
Currently, that is exactly what the case appears to be. Aeromancers have existed for several years without using the mechanic (I mean this as literally as possible, cloudcoils simply aren't a kill method you ever see), and without any indication over an extended period of time that they intend to change this via the envoys. I've heard this once or twice previously, but we simply can't blame this on the envoy freeze that was in effect for a small portion of the time between when Aeromancy was released and the overhaul. That's not to say it's any type of punishment, it's just not a mechanic that anyone has shown any indication of changing or using, so it is the definition of an extraneous affliction. Blaming the envoy freeze months after the fact is not something that is going to change my perspective, and what amounts to "it's just not fair," isn't particularly compelling either. If there is no benefit of keeping cloudcoils around, we aren't going to keep them. If there is some value here that I'm missing, by all means, please expand on it for me. This decision is not chiseled in stone.
As Silvanus has stated, envoys are free to address it through the envoys if it is impacting Aeromancers to a degree you believe should be addressed. I absolutely encourage and support this. I have specifically offered this as a solution to those who feel this way as well as offering my specific feedback on the viability of a report before you even finalize it so you don't feel as though you are risking a wasted report.
Okay, so what you're saying is that Aeromancers don't need their analog to Cremation, Chasm and Preserve? Or that DysbaricPressure doesn't need reworking beyond cloudcoils being moved to the Overhaul system?
Currently, that is exactly what the case appears to be. Aeromancers have existed for several years without using the mechanic (I mean this as literally as possible, cloudcoils simply aren't a kill method you ever see), and without any indication over an extended period of time that they intend to change this via the envoys. I've heard this once or twice previously, but we simply can't blame this on the envoy freeze that was in effect for a small portion of the time between when Aeromancy was released and the overhaul. That's not to say it's any type of punishment, it's just not a mechanic that anyone has shown any indication of changing or using, so it is the definition of an extraneous affliction. Blaming the envoy freeze months after the fact is not something that is going to change my perspective, and what amounts to "it's just not fair," isn't particularly compelling either. If there is no benefit of keeping cloudcoils around, we aren't going to keep them. If there is some value here that I'm missing, by all means, please expand on it for me. This decision is not chiseled in stone.
As Silvanus has stated, envoys are free to address it through the envoys if it is impacting Aeromancers to a degree you believe should be addressed. I absolutely encourage and support this. I have specifically offered this as a solution to those who feel this way as well as offering my specific feedback on the viability of a report before you even finalize it so you don't feel as though you are risking a wasted report.
Being that I've been an envoy for all of three months... I'd say that's plenty of excuse. Heck, when I switched to aeros, the envoys were pretty much about to be frozen. I've seen two months of reports' worth there (And one of those is still sitting in submitted status), and if memory serves contributed to the creation of those reports. Just because someone else hadn't seen a problem with the mechanic doesn't mean there wasn't a problem with it. That said, I'm quite well aware what would have happened to a report that went along the lines of: "Change dysbaricpressure into a timed insta-kill similar to geomancer chasm." Chances are, it would have been ground into the dirt by practically every other envoy. I'm not a fan of cloning skills myself, but at some point you just have to do that... there's only so many mechanics that can work without introducing new guild-only afflictions.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Just because it is not viable and hardly ever used (Though I've used it myself on more than one occasion and have managed kills with it, including in 1v1 combat) doesn't mean it needs to be deleted. By that logic, we should delete about 60% of all skillsets as well.
I was also under the impression that we were envoying only affliction-related changes. I guess I was wrong and I should begin work on the two reports I'll need to push through for when cloudcoils are deleted.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Well, that's exactly the logic we are using. If it's not viable and hardly ever used, it's not an affliction we need to keep around. That's the entire premise of the affliction overhaul.
The envoy system isn't about any individual envoy. Being an envoy for three months does not change the reality that this has been an ignored and extraneous affliction. We aren't keeping it around because you, specifically, are new to the process without any supporting argument as to the value of this affliction. That does not make any sense in the context of the larger system. Unfortunately for your position, the evidence supports that aeromancers have not needed this to be a functional guild up to this point. Which should be good news for you, you happen to be a functional guild that doesn't need special affliction gimmicks and are least impacted by the overhaul!
(And you can envoy things if you feel you need it.)
I didn't say it needs to be deleted, I'm just saying the argument to keep it is weak.
I'll rephrase it for you
You don't lose out by losing a rarely used kill method.
If they removed EternalSleep, DW wouldn't suddenly become useless without it. They wouldn't need another kill method added to it to remain viable. The strategy wouldn't change a whole lot.
Well, that's exactly the logic we are using. If it's not viable and hardly ever used, it's not an affliction we need to keep around. That's the entire premise of the affliction overhaul.
The envoy system isn't about any individual envoy. Being an envoy for three months does not change the reality that this has been an ignored and extraneous affliction. We aren't keeping it around because you, specifically, are new to the process without any supporting argument as to the value of this affliction. That does not make any sense in the context of the larger system. Unfortunately for your position, the evidence supports that aeromancers have not needed this to be a functional guild up to this point. Which should be good news for you, you happen to be a functional guild that doesn't need special affliction gimmicks and are least impacted by the overhaul!
I guess you also just skimmed through the part where I said that I only saw 2 months of aeromancer reports since I became one. I can't exactly be commenting on how to improve other guilds' skillsets without having used them myself. That would be like coming up and claiming that if you added a headbutt skill morph on separate balance for .5s stun would suddenly make illuminate viable.
The moment I mentioned that cloudcoils was likely to get nixed, everyone with some experience in the guild I've spoken to first asked 'why?' and then went on to say that we should get dysbaric replaced, so anyway... will be envoying something as soon as I can evaluate possibilities.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Possibly! I have to skim a lot (some of you write really long posts), but I don't really understand the point you're trying to make in the first paragraph. This process isn't about you or any specific singular envoy.
I'm glad regarding your second! Onward to the envoys!
Whatever happened to chain lightning? That was one of the aeromancer unique skills but then it just stopped being used, did we run outta aeromancers or was the damage just changed noticably? (I could see chainlightning doing what balestone does now with rising damage potentially as it hits each target).
Cloudcoils isn't really used, and honestly the affliction can poof. The skill can be converted into something more useful or not, they already have an excellent meld.
@Saesh Do you guys have any plans on what will happen to delayed cures like tendon, mangled, etc? Will their new cure still delay or how will things on those be handled if you have any input presently?
If I had cloudcoils, I would use it whenever possible. Free insta move until the kill is assured? yesplz Especially since it got randomly buffed to not require demesne, just terrain iirc.
Seems pretty clear to me that every guild gets at least 2 kill methods. Does removing cloudcoil reduce it to 1 or 2+?
Do they? Moondancers (the guild I'm most familiar with) have sleep/aeonlock. That's it outside of Astro (which to me doesn't count, because meteor is a purely Astro kill. It has nothing to do with the guild).
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Druids don't get two kill methods, unless we're suddenly counting the random tert ones (ike dproph, which is almost pure luck and spam based) that require sap just the same.
The only classes that tend to really get two entirely different kill methods are guardians.
Well, that's exactly the logic we are using. If it's not viable and hardly ever used, it's not an affliction we need to keep around. That's the entire premise of the affliction overhaul.
The envoy system isn't about any individual envoy. Being an envoy for three months does not change the reality that this has been an ignored and extraneous affliction. We aren't keeping it around because you, specifically, are new to the process without any supporting argument as to the value of this affliction. That does not make any sense in the context of the larger system. Unfortunately for your position, the evidence supports that aeromancers have not needed this to be a functional guild up to this point. Which should be good news for you, you happen to be a functional guild that doesn't need special affliction gimmicks and are least impacted by the overhaul!
I guess you also just skimmed through the part where I said that I only saw 2 months of aeromancer reports since I became one. I can't exactly be commenting on how to improve other guilds' skillsets without having used them myself. That would be like coming up and claiming that if you added a headbutt skill morph on separate balance for .5s stun would suddenly make illuminate viable.
The moment I mentioned that cloudcoils was likely to get nixed, everyone with some experience in the guild I've spoken to first asked 'why?' and then went on to say that we should get dysbaric replaced, so anyway... will be envoying something as soon as I can evaluate possibilities.
Whatever happened to chain lightning? That was one of the aeromancer unique skills but then it just stopped being used, did we run outta aeromancers or was the damage just changed noticably? (I could see chainlightning doing what balestone does now with rising damage potentially as it hits each target).
Cloudcoils isn't really used, and honestly the affliction can poof. The skill can be converted into something more useful or not, they already have an excellent meld.
@Saesh Do you guys have any plans on what will happen to delayed cures like tendon, mangled, etc? Will their new cure still delay or how will things on those be handled if you have any input presently?
ChainLightning doesn't exist currently. IIRC, cloudcoils replaced something else and I couldn't remember what - this may be it.
Druids don't get two kill methods, unless we're suddenly counting the random tert ones (ike dproph, which is almost pure luck and spam based) that require sap just the same.
The only classes that tend to really get two entirely different kill methods are guardians.
Well, Crow gets the manakill.
You guys, uh, get gore? Heh. Heheh.
But yeah, not every guild has two viable kills, even if it's a lovely idea to aim for. However more than guardians get them.
EDIT: And if you're saying dproph requires sap I disagree (although it is very random), and would in fact say that dprophing in sap is probably a poor idea as you're not properly upkeeping the sap.
Druids don't get two kill methods, unless we're suddenly counting the random tert ones (ike dproph, which is almost pure luck and spam based) that require sap just the same.
The only classes that tend to really get two entirely different kill methods are guardians.
Well, Crow gets the manakill.
You guys, uh, get gore? Heh. Heheh.
But yeah, not every guild has two viable kills, even if it's a lovely idea to aim for. However more than guardians get them.
EDIT: And if you're saying dproph requires sap I disagree (although it is very random), and would in fact say that dprophing in sap is probably a poor idea as you're not properly upkeeping the sap.
Stag gore is a kill method. It may not be a great kill method, but it is a kill method.... and I've seen more stag gore kills than I've seen dysbaricpressure ones, so eh... whatever, I guess. BT get crow swoop which is generally viable, even for a solo runist druid. I've pulled off a dysbaric here and there, but it's usually the last thing I'll attempt and chances are the stars need to be in proper alignment for it to work the only way it's ever happened... with throwing a ton of herbal afflictions at the wall and hoping cloudcoils is low on the curing priority list.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
If they removed EternalSleep, DW wouldn't suddenly become useless without it.
Yeah, bit late for Dreamweaving on that account.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
EternalSleep, yeah, that's awful. Similar to a lot of tertiaries, a lot of kill methods are just unreliable and not a strategy you'd go for.
Also, this is what Envoys are for. Sacrifice without Ectoplasm is going to be beyond unviable, Nihilists are losing Omen, Ectoplasm, and writhe stacking. We have already lost a pact power, and will be losing two more. No complaints though, because we have an envoy that's working to get it changed (oh hey! that's me!).
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
But re-reading it I see I was mistaken.
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Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I was also under the impression that we were envoying only affliction-related changes. I guess I was wrong and I should begin work on the two reports I'll need to push through for when cloudcoils are deleted.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The moment I mentioned that cloudcoils was likely to get nixed, everyone with some experience in the guild I've spoken to first asked 'why?' and then went on to say that we should get dysbaric replaced, so anyway... will be envoying something as soon as I can evaluate possibilities.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Especially since it got randomly buffed to not require demesne, just terrain iirc.
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Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.