Amended Combat Overhaul!

Estarra

Because of numerous issues and setbacks in the Overhaul Project, we have decided to suspend that project and develop an alternative approach that goes in a completely different direction. Instead of developing a completely different database system incompatible with current combat system, this amendment would allow the redesign to be introduced incrementally into the game which would give players a chance to slowly get used to the changes and provide an opportunity to envoys to help guide development.

Phase I: Afflictions and Curing

Note the amended overhaul proposal would not include the 5 level affliction system. The goal would be to radically reduce the number of afflictions and place them in a database system. Likewise, cures for afflictions would be radically redesigned so that there are only 4 cures for the majority of afflictions in the game. In other words, there would only be 4 cures:

• Curing Salve (apply): cures external physical afflictions (broken limbs, scabies, etc.)
• Curing Potion (drink): cures internal physical afflictions (dysentery, pox, etc.)
• Curing Herb (eat): cures mental afflictions (confusion, dementia, etc.)
• Curing Pipe (smoke): cures spiritual afflictions (aeon, jinx, etc.)

The four cure types (apply/drink/eat/smoke) would each have their own balance.

Possible New Discipline Skills

• Focus Herb - allows target cure of specific affliction, i.e., EAT HERB FOCUS STUIPIDITY
• Focus Potion - allows target cure of specific affliction
• Focus Pipe - allows target cure of specific affliction
• Focus Salve - allows target cure of specific affliction
• New trans skill to prioritize what afflictions are cured?

As we begin to phase in the new ailments and cures, we will be reactivating the envoys to ask them to help guide us in the development.

Phase II: Defenses

Consists of migrating defenses to a database system. Players will probably not see a great deal of difference in how defenses work.

Phase III: Buff System

Redesign the buff system to the 5 level buff system contemplated in the original overhaul proposal. In other words, all skills, abilities, curios, etc. will give a level of buff which stack and max out at 5.

Phase IV: Race Stats

Redesign the race statistics into body/mind/spirit/empathy/artistry as outlined in the original overhaul proposal. Health/mana/ego would no longer be tied to race stats.

Ssaliss

Question... If cures are boiled down to four (Salve/Potion/Herb/Pipe), what will happen to the Herbs and Alchemy/Lorecraft skills?

Estarra

Herbs/alchemy/lorecraft would probably stay mostly the same (you'll still need those herbs to create the cures). However, we'll also probably need to fill in those skillsets with other abilities as we go forward. However, the priority right now is creating the cures and setting up the database so we can slowly begin converting afflictions.

Lerad

It seems like it'll work just like the Overhaul, except that it'll simply be going live immediately. The major points are still being addressed, from what I can see. A drastic reduction in afflictions mean a less complex combat system with a much lower bar of entry, and the limiting of buffs will cap out health/mana/ego outliers.

If it's going to go live straight, though, it would be appreciated if more details about what afflictions will stay and what will go can be released for discussion ahead of time. Possibly re-purpose the overhaul shells for testing first too, would be great, but if not, at the very least, some sort of a headsup would be nice.

Also, since afflictions is phase 1, a general idea of the transition process will be nice. Will the curing method transition come first? Ie. will we first keep all our current afflictions and migrate to just using four curing commands? Or will you cut down afflictions first, and then implement the curing commands after the affliction list has been pared down to the desired amount? Either way, when the afflictions start getting cut, which set (internal/external/mental/spiritual) will get started, or will it be decided all at once and then cut at the same time?

Finally, will there be a transition period when the old curing commands will be valid at the same time as the new curing commands? If so, how long will the transition period last?

Synkarin

I like the sound of this much better. I think the Buff system should make an enormous difference, as well as the race changes.

Estarra

We're still working and debating on which afflictions to keep and what to get rid of, and that will probably be extremely malleable and subject to lots of revision and change, especially with envoy feedback. I wouldn't get caught up on needing to know immediately the entire list, because we will probably just do one at a time and then ask for feedback. For example (and this is only an example), we could keep stupidity and get rid of amnesia, impatience, loneliness, shyness (and replace any skill that gives those deleted ailments with stupidity). Then we'll see what the feedback is and adjust accordingly. (In other words, for every ailment we keep, we'll get rid of a handful of other ailments and replace them with the ones we keep.)

We'll definitely start by creating the 4 cures first so people will be able to create and stock up on them, and then slowly add and remove skills (as per the above) and adjust with player feedback until all ailments are migrated.

Estarra

Oh, the old cures will still work until they become outdated. I do not know, however, how long the process would take--it'd probably be a fool's errand to try to guess something like that!

Karlach

Synkarin said:

I like the sound of this much better. I think the Buff system should make an enormous difference, as well as the race changes.

Very much this, a rolling integration as opposed to a sudden "AND NOW IT ALL CHANGES" means we get a step by step fix to the game, and chance to work with changes and balance them.

The first part is going to be the big one, classes will change mechanics wise quite significantly in some cases, and take some getting use to. Question though, would the weapon/armour system changes come in with the new affliction system as part of mitigation, or later on?

Ssaliss

Will the defense part of the overhaul change how some defenses are kept on disconnect while other are lost? Might be a very good time to look that bit over

Estarra

Ssaliss said:

Will the defense part of the overhaul change how some defenses are kept on disconnect while other are lost? Might be a very good time to look that bit over

Er, no. We aren't looking at reducing the number of defenses per se, though there certainly could be adjustments in that area. To be clear, right now we are focusing on ailments and cures and hope you'll help keep us on track so we can get through it as quickly and painlessly as possible!

Ieptix

Defenses will probably last through logout universally, and instead will have an expiration timer on them (similar to the current overhaul defenses), because the storage mechanism for them (and for afflictions) is going to be very different from what exists now.

Estarra

Question though, would the weapon/armour system changes come in with the new affliction system as part of mitigation, or later on?

Weapon/armour system may be looked at in Phase III. (Or maybe after everything else is done?) Anyway, again, our focus right now is on ailments and cures.

Synkarin

-I was wrong-

Also, it may be a simpler change to work on the Buff system first, and I think that in general would have the greatest impact quickly. Limiting buffs would limit everything from h/m/e buffs to damage boosts etc and bring the outliers more in line with the norm.  

Estarra

Right now, the focus is on ailments and cures. We may switch Phase II and III so buffs come sooner but right now the priority is on ailments and cures.

Rialorm

For clarity's sake, would there be just 1 herb that cures everything, or would there still be many different herbs?

That said I -love- the sound of this, and I think it would be so much better. Plus you guys would have the envoy feedback. Win-win for everyone.

Estarra

There would be 4 cures that cure different things, each on their own balance. So an eaten herbal cure (or blend of herbs) that cures X,Y,Z, and a drinkable potion that cures A,B,C, etc.

Ssaliss

Unless I misunderstood:

Four cures, four things to stock up on. So you go to a shop and go "buy 1000 herbbundle, rift fill from curesalve, rift fill from curepotion, buy 1000 pipestuffing". All those things will likely need a combination of the herbs that already exist today though (although neither of those herbs will cure anything by themselves).

Iasmos

How will artifacts work with the new buffs (and whatever else)? Some of these artifacts are quite expensive, and I expect that they will somehow be better than standard buffs, defenses, cures, etc. For example, would the regeneration runes or life runes stack above the buff limit?

I think this new direction sounds great! Thanks for all the work going into it.

Synkarin

Ssaliss said:

Unless I misunderstood:

Four cures, four things to stock up on. So you go to a shop and go "buy 1000 herbbundle, rift fill from curesalve, rift fill from curepotion, buy 1000 pipestuffing". All those things will likely need a combination of the herbs that already exist today though (although neither of those herbs will cure anything by themselves).

I understood it as 4 cure balances, but the cures themselves will remain similiar, like multiple herbs, multiple smoked herbs, multiple potions and salves still, so some clarification on that would be great

Will we still have multiple herbs, like pennyroyal, yarrow etc?

Estarra

No, there would be one herbal remedy that cures group A, one salve that cures group B, one potion that cures group C, and one pipe that cures group D. So you only need stock up on 4 items rather than dozens.

Synkarin

Craaaaazy

Karlach

The economy is saved!

Ok joke aside, I'd like to know as well about the change to artifacts, especially with regards to Phase 3. There's been some discussion that came out of last year's IREcon but I've not seen any significant details on it.

Also if we've only four cures for everything, I assume cure stacking is going to be a key element to combat?

Iasmos

If the afflictions are mutually exclusive, only cured via one of the four cures, then there is no real way to get around some afflictions that block a cure, like drinking a potion when you can't eat an herb.

Are we removing writhe, stand, scrub, concentrate... ?

Estarra

It's a bit early to worry about artifacts but if any artifacts are impacted, we'd offer a full refund for those artifacts. Right now, we are focusing on afflictions and cures (if I hadn't mentioned it).

Ssaliss

Estarra said:

It's a bit early to worry about artifacts but if any artifacts are impacted, we'd offer a full refund for those artifacts. Right now, we are focusing on afflictions and cures (if I hadn't mentioned it).

I think you mentioned it once or twice...

Estarra

Iasmos said:

If the afflictions are mutually exclusive, only cured via one of the four cures, then there is no real way to get around some afflictions that block a cure, like drinking a potion when you can't eat an herb.

Are we removing writhe, stand, scrub, concentrate... ?

I don't think we'll get rid of writhe, stand, scrub, concentrate. There's always exceptions to the rule! But as for ailments cured by items, those are being boiled down to 4.

Feyr

* Deleted because Niina said I sounded like an asshole *

Iasmos

Bugs are definitely being fixed, albeit at a somewhat slower pace than when Iosai was around.

Xenthos

Estarra said:

No, there would be one herbal remedy that cures group A, one salve that cures group B, one potion that cures group C, and one pipe that cures group D. So you only need stock up on 4 items rather than dozens.

I really like the concept as far as streamlining goes, but it will definitely need to be given a hefty look; affliction-heavy classes will be able to outpace the curing considerably if the cure balance is too long, since it will all be channeled through one specific channel (since you won't be able to "prioritize" curing as easily, the more devastating affs will tend to stick around longer).  While I understand that you are also talking about reducing the number of afflictions in the game, you're probably also going to need to look at the ability to stack (especially via passives in addition to the active skills).

Estarra

Xenthos said:

Estarra said:

No, there would be one herbal remedy that cures group A, one salve that cures group B, one potion that cures group C, and one pipe that cures group D. So you only need stock up on 4 items rather than dozens.

I really like the concept as far as streamlining goes, but it will definitely need to be given a hefty look; affliction-heavy classes will be able to outpace the curing considerably if the cure balance is too long, since it will all be channeled through one specific channel (since you won't be able to "prioritize" curing as easily, the more devastating affs will tend to stick around longer).  While I understand that you are also talking about reducing the number of afflictions in the game, you're probably also going to need to look at the ability to stack (especially via passives in addition to the active skills).

Agreed! That's why we are doing it slowly and will adjust as we go based on feedback.

Enyalida

Will cures still be totally random?