This suddenly brings to mind that I have 9 artifact vials and a bandolier that are about to be exceedingly irrelevant because of the decrease in cures...is this gonna be compensated for, or can we expect the remainder of the alchemic skills to be filled with cool utility stuff?
This suddenly brings to mind that I have 9 artifact vials and a bandolier that are about to be exceedingly irrelevant because of the decrease in cures...is this gonna be compensated for, or can we expect the remainder of the alchemic skills to be filled with cool utility stuff?
I would expect refunds, because if you still need/want 9 artifact vials then they haven't reduced the complexity, but instead only shifted it to another area.
Btw, does the plan to remove afflictions, also include adding affliction lines to all attacks so that systems which don't care about illusions can have fewer triggers? (Or was this already implemented years ago? ) I vaguely remember such a conversation.
Is focus body/mind/spirit staying as a cure balance?
If not, then are impatience/deadening going to be repurposed because as of now, impatience stops focus body/spirit and cures first on focus mind and deadening doubles focus balance, so if those are removed, then impatience/deadening don't serve a purpose right now.
We're still discussing focus body/mind/spirit. We may change them to allow targeted curing (i.e., focus mind would allow DRINK LUCIDITYSLUSH FOCUS EPILEPSY). Thus, there'd be a purpose for impatience. Deadening could extend all cure balances. Anyway, again, this is all speculation and undecided which is what you get when we release info early!
So why are we running into huge theorycrafting ideas before anything has even been decided. Yes, you are correct, without focusing, things will get crazy IF nothing else about curing changes. But they (the admin) have already said they are considering focusing, and they will also consider priority afflictions to cure first if needed. These will be discussed as things progress, so you don't need to be going on huge tangents speculating stuff that may not even matter in the long run. Be patient and wait for it, all will be revealed in due time and you'll get your chance to give input and feedback then. The admin have a direction they are going with, it doesn't make sense to try and change that direction.
Earache and deafness need to without reworking bards. Blind/truesight are less important so I'm not sure.
Truesight does get in the way of spix and/or illubards, though the latter kind are rare.... and the former kind, well... they either do nothing i.e. there's only one spix that repeatedly strips truesight or they work a bit too well where two spix insta-transfix and the game's over. If ectoplasm/sluggishness are to stay the way they are, though, the truesight thing will definitely need looking at. Transfix is a pretty long writhe balance.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Indeed it affects illuminati/spix. It also impacts the effectiveness of glamours and things such as maze. Both of which are much simpler to fix than all of the bard mechanics.
We're also looking at replacing essentially all of the writhes cures (save for impale/pinleg and perhaps 1 or 2 others that I can't recall off the top of my head) and making them all the same mechanically but skinned differently. AKA no more writhe stacking.
@Synkarin: Because thinking about things in advance can mean catching problems early or worrying about absolutely nothing in the long run. Given prior discussion with admin the assumption is usually going to be something is going to go wrong if not specifically outlined I think. I am giving it some time and trying to see how things shape up, as the whole system makes 0 sense until implemented. If a cure is 5s, stacking will be fast, if 2s/3s we have to assume multiple afflictions might be given at once, etc etc etc.
This really goes to everyone as I can feel the concerns here. We have been discussing we HAVE cures and we will HAVE afflictions, but the question of how fast they are given and how fast they are cured has not come up yet. We are waiting to see how that is worked out before I think we need to worry about anything else. For instance, in Enyalida's example she can break 3 limbs, well if you can focus the leg to cure first, you are golden right? Well if that cure is also 4s, that means you will not be breaking out if you got two broken legs.
Speaking as someone heavily vested in combat, and that really being the reason I am here, we are indeed too early to know much. I know Synk has stated it is too early, and I think in some areas it is, but it is never too early to express your concerns in advance is it? For one I would rather see woven illusions go away so we could have combat based on skill and not how coded your illusion protection is. I would also like to see spix and hekoskeri go away because of how much hindering they present even before the cleanse cure movement hinder.
If anyone has a specific issue they are truly worried about and they want to make huge books of posts, poke me in game. We can try to talk it out, which will either hopefully help you relax, or we will find the core issue to bring up rather than having all these back and forth posts. Right? ^_^
You're not wrong and neither is @Enyalida with the points brought up, but what's the point of speculating how things are going to work beforehand?
Why bother discussing balance times until we find out what the balance time is, and then we can provide feedback based on fact, not speculation. No point in trying to consider ever possible situation because there will only be one way that it works, and we can provide feedback based on that.
Lets see what they come out with, and then try it out, test it, and provide feedback to adjust it to make things work. This seems infinitely more pragmatic and useful than speculating hypothetical situations that may never even a factor to begin with.
It's incomplete right now. But as a general idea, things like crucify, heretic, infidel, impaled, sap, insomnia, entangled, darkmoon, etc. The big "important" afflictions specific to certain classes or are just universally important (insomnia) that don't really fall into a category.
I imagine temporary insanity, cloudcoils, burns, and timewarp may also all stick around too since I am really unable to reconcile removing them with not redoing their respective guilds. Maybe not cloudcoils since no one uses them.
I'm on the fence about some like transfix, pecked eyes, and some others.
It's incomplete right now. But as a general idea, things like crucify, heretic, infidel, impaled, sap, insomnia, entangled, darkmoon, etc. The big "important" afflictions specific to certain classes or are just universally important (insomnia) that don't really fall into a category.
I imagine temporary insanity, cloudcoils, burns, and timewarp may also all stick around too since I am really unable to reconcile removing them with not redoing their respective guilds. Maybe not cloudcoils since no one uses them.
I'm on the fence about some like transfix, pecked eyes, and some others.
Well, if we're removing cloud coils, I'd hope Aeros will get another kill method in Aeromancy much like every other mage/druid guild has. (Even though some are better than others)
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
In all seriousness, because one guild has something does not mean another is entitled to it or something similar. If cloudcoils is important enough to Aeromancers to keep, I have no qualms keeping it. As far as I can tell, Aeros don't really need it (nor use it) so it serves no purpose to keep it around as a junk affliction.
Personally, I hope wounds become a bit more "obvious", if not removed completely (although that might not be likely).
What I mean by "obvious":
Right now, there are a _lot_ of different attacks that give different wounds. What I'd love to see is a line along the lines of affmessages; after an attack that deals wounds, you'd see "You are wounded in the right arm" etc. Perhaps as wounds build, you'd get different messages as well. I mean, odds are you know your arm is just hanging by a tendon and is about to be amputated, versus just having a few nicks.
In all seriousness, because one guild has something does not mean another is entitled to it or something similar. If cloudcoils is important enough to Aeromancers to keep, I have no qualms keeping it. As far as I can tell, Aeros don't really need it (nor use it) so it serves no purpose to keep it around as a junk affliction.
It's not one guild that has insta-kill in their druidry/elementalism spec, it's all of them. Some are more viable than others, true, but cloud coils can be pulled off if you get a group of aeros together. Beyond that, I'm certainly not going to comment on TK/TP here and their reliance on illusions, so having an alternate kill method to those two tertiaries would certainly be nice to have.
That said, with changes to the way curing works, it is likely going to become more viable to do cloud coils in single combat than it is presently. I can't tell until I see the end result and test it. It's not a case of we don't want to use cloud coils because we have other options, it's a case of cloud coils are very unlikely to succeed in single combat due to the way they're cured. Aero in general is very much the red-headed step child of the mage guilds. Aquas comes a close second there, but it's not for me to discuss. (Having never been an aquamancer personally)
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I thought everyone believed their guild was the red headed step child.
(It's actually the Paladins. I'm out to get the Paladins.)
They got Inqui and Trueheal, they shouldn't complain. :P
On a more serious note, every other mage/druid guild's insta-kill tends to be a bit more viable than an Aero's, with Pyro/Geo being at the top. Incinerate for instance makes cremate much much easier to pull off (And yes, to the point where you can probably nuke a person by using refresh power) Like I said, no experience with Aquas, but I've tried every other melder guild (Except Geos, but theirs is a timed insta so not exactly rocket science in the end)
EDIT: Anyway, going off on a bit of a tangent here, so I'll stop moaning.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Uh, well actually: Thornlash is not very viable, it just doesn't matter to druids.
@Synkarin: Right, my previous post was my suggestion for how things should work, preceded by an explanation for why I think the suggestion has merit. I tried to follow the format of reports, albeit more verbosely, with a section devoted to outlining the problem and a section devoted to solutions to that problem.
Yeah, we are. I concede that you can thornrend someone if you try hard enough, but why would you ever ever bother? I guess it does have a cool kill message. What does Shamanism have to do with anything?
I'm incredibly wary of this whole venture. What is the ultimate goal of this overhaul? Is it balancing or making things simpler just for the sake of it or what?
Technically, it is making things simpler for the sake of it, since Lusternia combat's huge trove of afflictions has been brought up as one of the factors that make it difficult to get into the PK scene, amongst others. Naturally, complexity is a selling point, but it does go too far in some aspects here in Lusternia - the actual way classes work aren't going to change a lot, according to what the admin are saying. At the very least, in the short term, until we "transition" into the new system, the general way each class work should not change drastically. Deleting some afflictions WILL change the way some classes work (or it will necessitate a change, whichever way you want to look at it), and that's something the admin have acknowledged and have also stated they will continue to follow up with after the immediate changes are over. Ultimately, this set of changes' immediate goal is to keep things the same, but just cut down the afflictions in a way that both admin and players hope will be productive in helping to make Lusternian combat easier to get into.
Further changes, both in response to this first batch of changes, and also to address other concerns that spawned the original overhaul concept: things like feature creep problems, where a newbie who HAS successfully gotten into the scene finds himself unable to compete because he needs to buy a time-machine to go back a few years in order to get some advantage etc, will be targetted after this simplification of the affliction/curing system in Lusternia.
That, at least, is my understanding of it - a scaling down, or splitting up, of the original overhaul idea: to address concerns about Lusternian combat being too complicated for newbies to reasonably get into, and hopefully to address egregrious balance concerns due to feature creep that has cropped up.
Comments
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Indeed it affects illuminati/spix. It also impacts the effectiveness of glamours and things such as maze. Both of which are much simpler to fix than all of the bard mechanics.
We're also looking at replacing essentially all of the writhes cures (save for impale/pinleg and perhaps 1 or 2 others that I can't recall off the top of my head) and making them all the same mechanically but skinned differently. AKA no more writhe stacking.
It's incomplete right now. But as a general idea, things like crucify, heretic, infidel, impaled, sap, insomnia, entangled, darkmoon, etc. The big "important" afflictions specific to certain classes or are just universally important (insomnia) that don't really fall into a category.
I imagine temporary insanity, cloudcoils, burns, and timewarp may also all stick around too since I am really unable to reconcile removing them with not redoing their respective guilds. Maybe not cloudcoils since no one uses them.
I'm on the fence about some like transfix, pecked eyes, and some others.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Aeros get Preserve. Problem solved.
In all seriousness, because one guild has something does not mean another is entitled to it or something similar. If cloudcoils is important enough to Aeromancers to keep, I have no qualms keeping it. As far as I can tell, Aeros don't really need it (nor use it) so it serves no purpose to keep it around as a junk affliction.
What I mean by "obvious":
Right now, there are a _lot_ of different attacks that give different wounds. What I'd love to see is a line along the lines of affmessages; after an attack that deals wounds, you'd see "You are wounded in the right arm" etc. Perhaps as wounds build, you'd get different messages as well. I mean, odds are you know your arm is just hanging by a tendon and is about to be amputated, versus just having a few nicks.
That said, with changes to the way curing works, it is likely going to become more viable to do cloud coils in single combat than it is presently. I can't tell until I see the end result and test it. It's not a case of we don't want to use cloud coils because we have other options, it's a case of cloud coils are very unlikely to succeed in single combat due to the way they're cured. Aero in general is very much the red-headed step child of the mage guilds. Aquas comes a close second there, but it's not for me to discuss. (Having never been an aquamancer personally)
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I thought everyone believed their guild was the red headed step child.
(It's actually the Paladins. I'm out to get the Paladins.)
On a more serious note, every other mage/druid guild's insta-kill tends to be a bit more viable than an Aero's, with Pyro/Geo being at the top. Incinerate for instance makes cremate much much easier to pull off (And yes, to the point where you can probably nuke a person by using refresh power) Like I said, no experience with Aquas, but I've tried every other melder guild (Except Geos, but theirs is a timed insta so not exactly rocket science in the end)
EDIT: Anyway, going off on a bit of a tangent here, so I'll stop moaning.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
@Synkarin: Right, my previous post was my suggestion for how things should work, preceded by an explanation for why I think the suggestion has merit. I tried to follow the format of reports, albeit more verbosely, with a section devoted to outlining the problem and a section devoted to solutions to that problem.
so plz2be no removing cloudcoils on the off-chance that I get a masochistic aerochem combat buddy.
@Enyalida - You what? Are we still talking about the same class? Yes, it's doable. Of course I wouldn't throw shamanism at it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Further changes, both in response to this first batch of changes, and also to address other concerns that spawned the original overhaul concept: things like feature creep problems, where a newbie who HAS successfully gotten into the scene finds himself unable to compete because he needs to buy a time-machine to go back a few years in order to get some advantage etc, will be targetted after this simplification of the affliction/curing system in Lusternia.
That, at least, is my understanding of it - a scaling down, or splitting up, of the original overhaul idea: to address concerns about Lusternian combat being too complicated for newbies to reasonably get into, and hopefully to address egregrious balance concerns due to feature creep that has cropped up.