@Xenthos that argument doesn't really work though, Woods/Chems were added to the game following complaints about melders kinda not being useful when you have more than one. Unless you are arguing that the skills you are suggesting are rendered mostly useless should there be another also using them. The existence of woods/chems is a unique situation, they were added to solve an issue this isn't true of the ones you reference
@synkarin your comments about my capacity or willingness to spend money on this game are unwelcome.
It would be nice to have -woods be able to shift back to their regular race to do things like adopt children without having to pay a lesson/credit surcharge to skillflex out and back into the -wood spec for just that. It was seriously mentioned more than once when they came out though, to staunch opposition.
Do they count for the family race tick? It's minor but it would be nice if they counted their real race for that, or like gave a half tick for being a living embodiment of your homeland.
Waaaaaait. Woods are unable to initiate adoption? I knew there was rp that they couldn't reproduce, but I thought that was limited to "people can't come out of the portal as a wood".
That's pretty cruddy.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
@Saran: Tracking is indeed rendered mostly useless if more than one person on your team has it.
In addition, different weapon specs have different uses. Axelord for damage, Cavalier is good at hindering, PB has that timed insta. They each provide benefits / options that can fit certain situations better than others. I am entirely unclear how this is any different a "mode change" than yours.
I have no problem with woods being able to adopt kids, I'd be fine with something adjusted for that.
@Saran - melders can fight with other melders. In fact, having multiple melders can make it easier to break and get your own meld established. No, they can't stack meld effects, are probably not as effective as say multiple bards, but they are far from 'useless.'
Xenthos already mentioned tracking, but Night is similar. You only really need 1 Night user. Only one set of shadows, one brumetower, one shadow to steal, etc.
This attitude that you should be catered to while everyone else has to pay the price is pretty unwelcome as well.
I have no problem with woods being able to adopt kids, I'd be fine with something adjusted for that.
@Saran - melders can fight with other melders. In fact, having multiple melders can make it easier to break and get your own meld established. No, they can't stack meld effects, are probably not as effective as say multiple bards, but they are far from 'useless.'
Xenthos already mentioned tracking, but Night is similar. You only really need 1 Night user. Only one set of shadows, one brumetower, one shadow to steal, etc.
This attitude that you should be catered to while everyone else has to pay the price is pretty unwelcome as well.
If there are reasons for why other people should have access to things then they should have access to them, as I've said, the reason why I'd consider them for this is because the chems/woods literally exist because of the complaints about the worth of having multiple melders in a single fight. That's not true of any other skill at the end of the day.
And I made the suggestion because I've come across the decision of flexing or not a few times because there was or wasn't a melder already available, the tax is frustrating more so when not being able to afford it means not having a melder in a fight.
I've also already said previously that I don't think the additional costs associated with flexing are a good idea and act as a disincentive to making the smaller investment into another skill or class both in terms of lessons as well as artifacts. Compared with the other games our multiclassing model is the only one with an ongoing cost. I also actually think that weapon runes should be loaded onto a bracer or something and affect the weapon in that hand.
Yeah, having played the other IRE games, my eyes boggled when I read about class flexxing here. It seems like a cash grab on top of an already expensive option.
From memory they also have lycanthropes which everyone can be, you just shapeshift after doing the thing to chose your type. was a pretty cool addition.
Not my favourite implementation of lycanthropy, with the 'you slowly build madness and might lose control if you stay shifted too long' thing, but yeah.
still hoping that the sixth archetype is tied into the epic quests, would be cool to go to the orgbix room and shift to that class. (imagining the hallifax class would be thematically all about programming/manipulating the generator and guns if their monks don't get them)
If you want to argue the cost of skillflexing is too high or whatever, then sure, go for it. I won't dispute that.
You're asking to have -chemwoods be an exception to the rule because of these costs. That's a whole different animal.
(correct me if I'm wrong, but with Aetolia, didn't you have to relearn every skillset upon flexing? Like if you were a cabalist or indorani, if you flexed between then two, you still had to spend more lessons to learn the skillsets you already learned once?)
Yeah, having played the other IRE games, my eyes boggled when I read about class flexxing here. It seems like a cash grab on top of an already expensive option.
It used to not exist at all! I took a few years break from Lusternia and came back to learn it was a thing. Doctoral Cord is my best Lusternian purchase so far, but I admit it's a pricey one.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Yeah, having played the other IRE games, my eyes boggled when I read about class flexxing here. It seems like a cash grab on top of an already expensive option.
It used to not exist at all! I took a few years break from Lusternia and came back to learn it was a thing. Doctoral Cord is my best Lusternian purchase so far, but I admit it's a pricey one.
I upgraded to the tam; I do not classflex, but it allows me to skillflex as much as I want without having to worry about hourly limitations.
Woods being unable to adopt kids sounds like a clunky mechanic.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
(correct me if I'm wrong, but with Aetolia, didn't you have to relearn every skillset upon flexing? Like if you were a cabalist or indorani, if you flexed between then two, you still had to spend more lessons to learn the skillsets you already learned once?)
Ah, yes, but that's a one-time investment. Once learned you keep skills. They just go dormant. I haven't done classflexxing here yet (the cost is a bit too daunting right now) - ignoring the impracticality of this, if I picked up Ebonguard skills, would I be able to use my knighthood from Serenguard when I swap into Ebonguard? If so, that's definitely a nice feature.
Yes. You'll stay at Master in Knighthood. You'd only have to forget Stag (or Moon), basically -- and even that's not painful because the Stag lessons go into the same pool you can learn Crow (or Night) from.
Yes, switching warrior guilds is one of the least expensive things to do because you keep using all the same skills (only thing that changes are totems / rituals specs, so if you are tracking you actually do not need to flex a thing).
Unrelated idea - would it be possible to have skill AB files updated into more helpful formats? Aethercraft comes to mind. It's currently a bit hard to figure out what skill does what at a glance. Suggested change would look like this:
You have gained the following abilities in Aethercraft: (ie, core skills)
Channel Access a ship's crew communication channel.
Aethercraft Basic use of a command chair.
Empathy Basic use of the empathic grid.
Battle Basic use of a battle turret.
You have gained the following abilities for the command chair: (ie module-specific skills) Offerings Give offerings of aetheric essence to the gods. Armada Join into an armada of ships.
You have gained the following abilities for the empathic grid: Interlink Include non-crew on the ship channel.
You have gained the following abilities for the battle turret: Targeting Attack specific modules.
For tracking, you could have traps and bond have a similar sub-list. Etc.
Any skill you could have learned in a new guild, you can keep from the old one. From SG to EG, you can keep Knighthood and the spec, Athletics, and Tracking or Totems (but not Stag), and any of the tradeskills. Don't even need to forget them. You can, however, forget Stag temporarily and no one will ever be able to tell. However, Class/Skillflexing is more nuanced and is for things like going to a new archetype, or swapping tradeskills or secondary skills. SG to Shofangi, Spiritsinger, or Moondancer, or switching from Totems+Stag to Hunting+Tracking or from Herbs to Forging.
When you say nobody will be able to tell, you are forgetting the GUILD SKILLS command. That does show dormant skills.
A) Did not know that, and No one who can actively punish you for a dormant skill. (Unless Gods care to use admin commands to inform ambassadorial/security aides) Unless some guild has rules about dormant skills that I don't know of.
I don't know of any guild that would do that; it does not make much sense to do so, because you cannot activate it when not in the right guild anyways. I suppose someone with a grudge could inform the org the person came from (some orgs do have a "don't keep our skills" policy), but that would be a pretty petty way to bug someone who is in your own guild.
Comments
Unless you are arguing that the skills you are suggesting are rendered mostly useless should there be another also using them.
The existence of woods/chems is a unique situation, they were added to solve an issue this isn't true of the ones you reference
@synkarin your comments about my capacity or willingness to spend money on this game are unwelcome.
That's pretty cruddy.
In addition, different weapon specs have different uses. Axelord for damage, Cavalier is good at hindering, PB has that timed insta. They each provide benefits / options that can fit certain situations better than others. I am entirely unclear how this is any different a "mode change" than yours.
@Saran - melders can fight with other melders. In fact, having multiple melders can make it easier to break and get your own meld established. No, they can't stack meld effects, are probably not as effective as say multiple bards, but they are far from 'useless.'
Xenthos already mentioned tracking, but Night is similar. You only really need 1 Night user. Only one set of shadows, one brumetower, one shadow to steal, etc.
This attitude that you should be catered to while everyone else has to pay the price is pretty unwelcome as well.
Most kids are (really) adoptions anyways as far as game mechanics themselves are concerned. It really isn't a problem imo.
And I made the suggestion because I've come across the decision of flexing or not a few times because there was or wasn't a melder already available, the tax is frustrating more so when not being able to afford it means not having a melder in a fight.
I've also already said previously that I don't think the additional costs associated with flexing are a good idea and act as a disincentive to making the smaller investment into another skill or class both in terms of lessons as well as artifacts. Compared with the other games our multiclassing model is the only one with an ongoing cost. I also actually think that weapon runes should be loaded onto a bracer or something and affect the weapon in that hand.
Edit: Just looked it up, the Aetolian one you can class flex for free once every 12 hours or pay 30 lessons to hit the reset button and do it earlier.
Compared to the class flex once every 300 hours here plus 200 or 100 lessons here, plus the 50 per individual skillset that may need to shift around.
You're asking to have -chemwoods be an exception to the rule because of these costs. That's a whole different animal.
(correct me if I'm wrong, but with Aetolia, didn't you have to relearn every skillset upon flexing? Like if you were a cabalist or indorani, if you flexed between then two, you still had to spend more lessons to learn the skillsets you already learned once?)
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
You have gained the following abilities for the command chair: (ie module-specific skills)
Offerings Give offerings of aetheric essence to the gods.
Armada Join into an armada of ships.
You have gained the following abilities for the empathic grid:
Interlink Include non-crew on the ship channel.
You have gained the following abilities for the battle turret:
Targeting Attack specific modules.
For tracking, you could have traps and bond have a similar sub-list. Etc.
I wasn't asking about guild swaps, really, just was using that as an example of shared skillsets to reply to Synkarin's question with one of my own.